What is up with our taunts and aggro???

[Doylen]

<div></div>I have been grouping with my friend which is a zerker and I have been doing that for A LONG time now and I have been 50 the most time, but my friend hit 50 the other day and I can barely keep aggro for squat. It's reddiculous! I chain taunt, buff and heal during combat and I can't keep aggro for nothin, And he uses half his power NOT TAUNTING and still gets aggro. If I DO want to keep aggro I have to take away my HP buff that takes concentration, Kasine's Enlightened Piety and add Benediction and Redeption which basically takes away 400 hp, tons of power and mitigation. So then I'd be a bad tank considering the zerker will have more hp power + mitigation. What do you guys do about that? <div></div><p>Message Edited by Doylen on <span class=date_text>07-18-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:31 PM</span>

[Boli32]

Two main reasons: * Berserkers have hate generating attacks and stances; if your friends isn't doing already tell him to look through all his skill list VERY carefully and de-buff or not use that attack. * Paladins are less power efficient than berserkers, 50% of our power on wards/heals/taunts/attacks is peanuts to the amount of attacks a berserkers can pull off with 50% of his power... in short a berserker will generally per power % generate more agro than you. My adivce, and indeed what I allways do when grouping with a similar or higher Guardian/Berserker... let them tank and throw your buffs on them. You are a better supporting tank than they are anyway and you'll not waste power on trying to hold agro. and the berserker doesn't need to hold back on his attacks. <div></div>

[Alluin]

Lets assume you two are the main ones with the most aggro in the group (being the tanks). Slapping Redemption (adept I) on him will decrease his aggro by 32% and increase yours by the 32% that he lost, so the net difference between the aggro levels of you two is 64% of his aggro. Should be simple from there <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <div></div>

[Yrield]

Put your name on the wait list for the "nice array of taunts" <span>:smileyvery-happy:</span> <div></div>

[Kage8]

Hi Xander.....=0) Skullz 50 madman Zerker, trying to keep his agro under controll....=0) <div></div>

[Doylen]

There's that stupid Berserker! GIVE ME MY AGGRO BACK! Seriously though. If I'm not the main tank, what would i be good for? If I want to do DPS even close to a berserker or a scout class I will have to burn through all my power in one fight and if I want to be a healer... Well If there was a healer in the group I wouldn't be healer except spot healer. So really the only thing we should be able to do fairly good would be tanking but we haven't got a chance against the zerkers. And if I use my aggro buffs I can't keep my HP buffs up like, Kasine's Enlightened Piety. And the AC buffs and backup tank buffs aren't that good, if you have to zerkers in the group they would do better buffing themselves. <div></div>

[SanJ]

<P>Based on current game mechanics, I follow Boli's method.  If a Guard or Zerk is my level or close to my level, I off tank.  It's usually a bad idea if someone is having to hold back on what they can do damage wise and it's absurd to burn all your mana in an aggro management contest.</P> <P>Paladins have a lot to offer in the OT role and I don't mind OT'ing as long as the MT is doing a good job.  I have served in the role of MT many nights with a Guardian in my group or a Beserker and aggro management has worked well.  However, we've usually had to work out a few aggro details before delving deep into adventuring and combat to ensure things would work well for the evening.</P> <P>Thanks,<BR>Kalen</P>

[SunT]

<P>A Zerk would be better to answer, but I think the skill is Bloodrage.  It is a low end one like our Redemption and every hit Anyone makes give them aggro.   If he is using this buff, you will not hold aggro even with redemption, I guarantee it.  There may be others but this little one is a killer for sure.</P> <P>I have grouped with Zerks and held aggro and grouped with them and lost it.  The other day in the Heroic Arena there was a 48 Zerk who kept pulling aggro from a raiding guild 50 Guard in all fabled and who boasted of master taunts.  He could not keep aggro because the Zerk was intentionally pulling it.  A Zerk who doesn't have an Ego problem and knows his class can do awesome damage and not take aggro.  Your friend does not know his class, nor did this dude.</P> <P>I do not agree that you give up MT role for a 48 or 49 guard or zerk in the group because they might pull aggro.  You tell them not to pull aggro and they should know their class well enough to handle themselves.  Mitigation is a huge issue when you look at 2 levels lower.  It is irresponsible to throw a lower tank in the MT role unless they are far better equipped.  The Junior tank, even if he has God casting his aggro spells for him, needs to not pull aggro.  IF he does, boot him.</P> <P>You might think that is a [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] thing to do, but I can assure you, if you have a Zerk or Guard who can't control his aggro and he spins a raid mob he will wipe his raid.  Better to teach him in group then to wait till you are locked out of a zone and clickin for your shard because he has too much testosterone.</P> <P> </P>

[KBern]

<P>I hear many paladins complaining about agro, but it comes down to playing with people who know their job, and you knowing yours and all the tricks we get.  Taunts alone won't get it done.</P> <P>Use Call to Glory when you are MT, DO NOT use it when are not MT.  It is a key for us to hold agro and when we are not MTing, no real need for it because it gives us agro the MT should have.  The skil buffs are nice but use at your own risk when not tanking.  If you see yourself getting more agro and you have the buff up, remove it.</P> <P>I use redemption on whomever I think will be gaining the most agro when I am MTing.  Another tank, a warlock, possibly a warden, etc etc.  This helps a lot.</P> <P>Obviously punch the taunts as much as you can, when you can to keep the agro going.</P> <P>I then use my heals the first few heals I need.  If you need to, ask the main healer to not heal you right away, and when you hit 60% pop on your best self heal.</P> <P>I usually have no trouble holding agro even when we have a warlock in the group nuking his tush off.</P> <P>The problem mainly arised when you have the [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] in your group who think it is some game to show you that they can draw agro from you.  WOW you get a cookie, now learn to play right.</P> <P>Sometimes it is as simple as the other fighters not taunting, or simply forgetting to take off agro producing buffs they always use.</P> <P>In the end, as long as the group agrees to who is MT and they work together with that thought in mind, most times you won't have an issue holding agro.</P>

[MeridianR]

<span><blockquote><hr>KBern wrote:<div></div> <p>I hear many paladins complaining about agro, but it comes down to playing with people who know their job, and you knowing yours and all the tricks we get.  Taunts alone won't get it done.</p> <p>Use Call to Glory when you are MT, DO NOT use it when are not MT.  It is a key for us to hold agro and when we are not MTing, no real need for it because it gives us agro the MT should have.  The skil buffs are nice but use at your own risk when not tanking.  If you see yourself getting more agro and you have the buff up, remove it.</p> <p>I use redemption on whomever I think will be gaining the most agro when I am MTing.  Another tank, a warlock, possibly a warden, etc etc.  This helps a lot.</p> <p>Obviously punch the taunts as much as you can, when you can to keep the agro going.</p> <p>I<b> then use my heals the first few heals I need.  If you need to, ask the main healer to not heal you right away, and when you hit 60% pop on your best self heal.</b></p> <p>I usually have no trouble holding agro even when we have a warlock in the group nuking his tush off.</p> <p>The problem mainly arised when you have the [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] in your group who think it is some game to show you that they can draw agro from you.  WOW you get a cookie, now learn to play right.</p> <p>Sometimes it is as simple as the other fighters not taunting, or simply forgetting to take off agro producing buffs they always use.</p> <p>In the end, as long as the group agrees to who is MT and they work together with that thought in mind, most times you won't have an issue holding agro.</p> <div></div><hr></blockquote>Depends on the fight.  Trying to heal yourself in a fight against a named who opens with Nil Distortion could get bad <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I am sure you meant that, but just wanted to clarify for people who might take it to literally.</span><div></div>

[BlackW]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> SanJun wrote:<BR> <P>Based on current game mechanics, I follow Boli's method.  If a Guard or Zerk is my level or close to my level, I off tank.  It's usually a bad idea if someone is having to hold back on what they can do damage wise and it's absurd to burn all your mana in an aggro management contest.</P> <P>Paladins have a lot to offer in the OT role and I don't mind OT'ing as long as the MT is doing a good job.  I have served in the role of MT many nights with a Guardian in my group or a Beserker and aggro management has worked well.  However, we've usually had to work out a few aggro details before delving deep into adventuring and combat to ensure things would work well for the evening.</P> <P>Thanks,<BR>Kalen</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>The problem comes when the zerker cant take as much damage as me, last night in CT a zerker 1 lvl higher than me kept pulling agro off me.   He had no shield and less mitigation and ended up draining me and our healer as we healed him.   He had better damage but was not as good a tank.

[KBern]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> MeridianR wrote:<BR><SPAN><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> KBern wrote:<BR> <P>I hear many paladins complaining about agro, but it comes down to playing with people who know their job, and you knowing yours and all the tricks we get.  Taunts alone won't get it done.</P> <P>Use Call to Glory when you are MT, DO NOT use it when are not MT.  It is a key for us to hold agro and when we are not MTing, no real need for it because it gives us agro the MT should have.  The skil buffs are nice but use at your own risk when not tanking.  If you see yourself getting more agro and you have the buff up, remove it.</P> <P>I use redemption on whomever I think will be gaining the most agro when I am MTing.  Another tank, a warlock, possibly a warden, etc etc.  This helps a lot.</P> <P>Obviously punch the taunts as much as you can, when you can to keep the agro going.</P> <P>I<B> then use my heals the first few heals I need.  If you need to, ask the main healer to not heal you right away, and when you hit 60% pop on your best self heal.</B></P> <P>I usually have no trouble holding agro even when we have a warlock in the group nuking his tush off.</P> <P>The problem mainly arised when you have the [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] in your group who think it is some game to show you that they can draw agro from you.  WOW you get a cookie, now learn to play right.</P> <P>Sometimes it is as simple as the other fighters not taunting, or simply forgetting to take off agro producing buffs they always use.</P> <P>In the end, as long as the group agrees to who is MT and they work together with that thought in mind, most times you won't have an issue holding agro.</P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Depends on the fight.  Trying to heal yourself in a fight against a named who opens with Nil Distortion could get bad <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR><BR>I am sure you meant that, but just wanted to clarify for people who might take it to literally.<BR></SPAN> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Well of course.  The above is general for 95% of your exping.  There are always exceptions.  I guess wiht null distortion I would probably drop to 20% after one shot. :smileytongue:</P> <P>I did not add in about using attacks to gain hate either but that would be another given.<BR></P>

[Rhianni]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> BlackWeb wrote:<BR><BR><BR>The problem comes when the zerker cant take as much damage as me, last night in CT a zerker 1 lvl higher than me kept pulling agro off me.   He had no shield and less mitigation and ended up draining me and our healer as we healed him.   He had better damage but was not as good a tank. <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>This is a good example to point out that tanking is NOT only about holding aggro.  There are many factors.  A paladin that cant hold aggro as well  ends the fight with nobody dying and minimal downtime because the healers havent had to regen their power.  The beserker in the above example (and one I have seen happen many times too) will make the healers use more mana.  Sure they may not lose aggro but they will cause the group to waste more time .<BR>

[Rhianni]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Doylen wrote:<BR> I have been grouping with my friend which is a zerker and I have been doing that for A LONG time now and I have been 50 the most time, but my friend hit 50 the other day and I can barely keep aggro for squat. It's reddiculous! I chain taunt, buff and heal during combat and I can't keep aggro for nothin, And he uses half his power NOT TAUNTING and still gets aggro.<BR>If I DO want to keep aggro I have to take away my HP buff that takes concentration, Kasine's Enlightened Piety and add Benediction and Redeption which basically takes away 400 hp, tons of power and mitigation. So then I'd be a bad tank considering the zerker will have more hp power + mitigation.<BR><BR>What do you guys do about that?<BR> <P>Message Edited by Doylen on <SPAN class=date_text>07-18-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>10:31 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Is your friend working with you on aggo control? Doing it properly is more than just the Main tanks job. Its the entire groups.  I have a problem keeping aggro off of one particular ranger that I group with regularly.  The rest of my group will wait a second or two before using their big damage abilities.  He will use everything he has immediately.  I've learned not to waste my power trying to pull something off him.  If I do that will leave me without power near the end of the fight to control the rest of the mobs.  Its wasting power.</P> <P>Maybe go over with your friend what he is doing or read a list of beserker abilities to see what is pulling off the aggro.  If he is pulling one of two off you let him have it. It shouldnt kill him instantly and you can spread the damage between yourselves.</P>

[Alarion1]

I have been having trouble with aggro management, but only with another Paladin, whom is in the same guild with me and I group with somewhat often. He states he isn't taunting, and I haven't noticed him taunting at all either. Now here's a scenario: I pull some mob with a dd spell (Divine Vengance, let's say), then on the incoming I debuff/taunt with Smite Prayer, immediately followed with my largest single target taunt (one of the learning skills), ward,  next I usually do a charge, oath strike, implacable wrath, single taunt again, followed with a casting of Call to Glory/Divine Inspiration. With all that done, this Paladin (who at the time, was 1-2 levels under me) still pulls aggro. Oh did I mention I had Redemption on this Pally? Once he gets aggro, I can *never* pull it off him. No matter what combination of taunts, rescue, heals, wards, buffs, DDs I use. All my skills listed above are App4 or Adept 1. I will say that typically, he is the main healer as we don't have a normal templar we group with. But even so, I throw in a couple heals myself to try and maintain the aggro. I really don't understand how he is pulling aggro. I have noticed it doesn't happen as often as it did since I upgraded all my skills. Before, most were app1s and he pulled aggro every single fight. Now it's more like 1 in 5. The only time I actually have been able to pull aggro back from him, is when it's a multi-mob encounter and he only pulled aggro on the other critters from healing me but not actually attacking them. I know the combat revamp is coming, but it would be nice to have some ideas for maintaining aggro right now <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <div></div>

[SanJ]

<DIV>Dinaek,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Solving your problem will require more detailed information.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>What is your current Paladin level and what is your Paladin friend's level?</DIV> <DIV>What weapon/shield/2-hand combination are you using -- need same data from friend</DIV> <DIV>Are you doing HOs at all?  If so, who is taunting to complete the HO?</DIV> <DIV>Are you doing a solo HO to gain initial aggro?</DIV> <DIV>Which taunts if any and which wards/buffs is your friend using?</DIV> <DIV>If you are MT and duoing with this friend, which wards/buffs does he/she have cast on you?</DIV> <DIV>Which wards/buffs do you have cast on your friend?</DIV> <DIV>What skill levels (apprentice-adept) do you have and which does your friend have?  Any rare adept 3's from either party?</DIV> <DIV>You said your friend was primary healer.  I'm assuming you are MT, your friend is healing and both of you are trying to hammer out dps.  If so, try some of these strategies:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In a duo situation:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>1. Both you and the friend self ward/buff using all 5 of your concentration slots--friend puts Gift of Armament on YOU!</DIV> <DIV>2. You go 1-h w/shield, your friend goes 2-h.</DIV> <DIV>3. You pull with a solo HO and then have your friend engage in combat at the completion of the first solo HO in melee form.</DIV> <DIV>4. You launch Call to Glory as SOON as the HO is complete. (your friend is not allowed to use this skill/spell <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV>5. You use your remaining group/solo taunt</DIV> <DIV>6. You shield bash (hate)</DIV> <DIV>7. Fire off Refusal of Grace and Sworn Strike to accumulate nice damage that will help with aggro up front in the battle.</DIV> <DIV>8. Next, crack of Prayer of Conviction on your group (your friend is not allowed to use this skill/spell <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV>9. Finally, you will start HOs, have your friend advance them with you ALWAYS completing them on the taunt.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Your friend is not allowed to taunt, nor shield bash which isn't an option anyway if they are 2-handed.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Half way through the battle refresh Call to Glory and pause a few seconds and chase that with Prayer of Conviction.</DIV> <DIV>Again your friend is not allowed to use taunts, call to glory or prayer of conviction.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You should have no trouble with aggro using this method WITHOUT redemption.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The only other tool your friend could be using that will steal aggro as fast as you can snap fingers is "Display of Devotion."  If your friend wants to ward you, have him/her cast the ward BEFORE you pull, not during battle!  That damage ward is an aggro nightmare and I'm ALWAYS cautious about using it when I'm not MT as I take aggro with it often.  If your friend is using the shield ward on you regularly--THAT is the problem.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As you try the steps above and become successful with the strategy, start slowing down the wards/buffs since they eat so much mana and find a happy balance where your holding aggro with taunts and a spot ward/heal/buff here and there.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>ADDED: I can't believe I forgot to mention that if you friend is having to chain heal you, aggro is going to be an issue.  It may be necessary for you to through a spot heal here and there on YOURSELF to help balance the hate the friend is generating through chain heals.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thanks and good luck!</DIV> <DIV>Kalen</DIV><p>Message Edited by SanJun on <span class=date_text>07-21-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:16 AM</span>

[Alarion1]

<div></div>Kalen, thanks for the reply man <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I don't have super detailed information at the moment, as I am at work. We will hopefully be making another run through Nektropos here this weekend, so I will try to gather more detailed info and make notes as to when this is actually happening. Since i have upgraded all my skills, this is not happening as frequently.  I am now level 38, and was 37 last time we grouped (for Everling) and he was 35-36 or so. Also, we don't typically duo, but usually in a full group that has a makeup similar to this: 1. 38 (now) Paladin - me, MT 2. 37 (now) Paladin - aggro theif! -- main healer 3. 32ish Paladin 4. 37ish Troubador 5. 30ish monk 6. other (varies, but usually a low 30's something) All my skills are either App4 or Adept 1. For single taunting, I was using the new one from Splitpaw. For AE taunting I was using a combination of Smite Prayer and Blinding Bash. He usually only wards me when I am getting smacked around pretty hard. As well, if he is doing a lot of healing, I can understand him grabbing aggro. it's the situations where I go all out with taunts and other hate generation, and all he is doing is auto attacking and maybe throwing one heal out. Once he grabs aggro (in a single mob encounter). I can rescue, taunt, ae taunt, oath strike, ward and then heal twice and still not get aggro back. As for weapons.. at the time I think we were both using sword and board, with the sword being an imbued 1.7 delay sword (imbued longsword maybe)? So both of us had Gleaming Strike proccing. I also usually have Redemption (adept 1) on him, and am the one casting Call to Glory and Divine Inspiration. I will try to gather more specific data and report again if this is still happening. Edit: added some more group/level infos <div></div><p>Message Edited by Alarion1 on <span class=date_text>07-21-2005</span> <span class=time_text>12:16 PM</span>

[SanJ]

<DIV>I must admit that I'm a bit baffled by a lower level Paladin taking your aggro, especially when they are not taunting.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>However, with the high number of Paladins in your group, make sure you reserve the right to use Call to Glory and Prayer of Conviction for yourself.  The other Paladins should not be using these arts.  Likewise, it would be best for you to supply every other Display of Devotion as it generates uber hate every time I use the spell.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>When I loose aggro now, I almost always go in this order Display of Devotion -> Zealous Preaching -> Clarion Call -> Blessed Rush -> Call to Glory -> Prayer of Conviction -> Pious Aid -> Clarion Call -> Decree -> Refusal of Grace -> Sworn Strike -> Clarion Call -> Doom Judgement :... and then  -> taunt/rez my buddy/take a bio/mumble under my breath</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I know that order seems long and drawn out, but it almost never fails.  Actually, a good number of times, Display of Devotion alone with get back aggro.  If not, taunts seem to get better after using the ward, so most of the time I have back aggro on or before Call to Glory.  RARELY does it go past our call.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>One thing I've made mental note of lately is Rescue.  In the past, I was very dissatisfied with this art, but I tossed it out one day and it worked.  This prompted me to try it again another time and after several successes, I started keeping track of it and I'm now at 8/11 on success since tracking.  I usually save this spell and treat it like a LOH though--not sure why other then a long recast timer.  I do ALWAYS get in 1-2 hate tools prior to the rescue if I can afford the time luxery.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Another issue that might be causing you problems with 3 Paladins is temporarily unusable spells.  Paladin DOT (damage over time) spells do NOT stack with each other.  That does not mean your Oath Strike as an example is broken.  It means someone beat you to the punch on the spell and since it includes a DOT your Oath Strike may not be used until said DOT is complete from the previous caster.  If you have certain dialog turned off or you are missing spatial information/chat, it may be that you are pushing combat buttons and having them NOT take effect because the other Paladin is faster on the trigger.  Worse yet, if you miss the dialog explaining it's not landing or being used, you might think you're doing something special with combat arts when in reality you're being eliminated to some degree on the dps chain which cause a faster loss of aggro.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I suggest you take the approach of different Paladins starting with different attacks to avoid the above scenerio.  To help with DPS and aggro, I suggest you start with Oath Strike and then move towards the debuffing combat arts as your friend starts with those arts and moves TO Oath Strike.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Another option for HO completion should your taunts be down ... have the lowest level Paladin in your group complete that HO to spread the hate and not give the advantage to your friend who is already stealing aggro.  Also have the third Paladin in the group assist heal to balance hate.  If the Paladin healer friend heals twice, have the third Paladin pickup the next heal if coordination is possible with your group.  It sounds like you play with this bunch regularly so communicate out what you want.  Aggro management remains the responsibility of the entire group, but as a tank-class we are responsible for sharing the education with others <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thanks,<BR>Kalen</DIV>

[Alarion1]

thanks again for such a lengthy response. I guess I should throw in that I am an experienced MMO player, though I don't have much raid experience. So I revel in being able to see all kind of info. So to answer your pseudo-question .. nope, not missing any spatial type info. In fact, I frequently get this message about Oath Strike when grouped with a higher level Paladin in our guild for mini-raids. Anyhow, since I am the higher level, my Oath Strike actually overwrites one that the other Paladin(s) might have tossed out there. The one that has been stealing my aggro actually made several comments about him not being able to use his much because mine is always up :p When we do use HOs, I always finish them (provided I can.. if we are chaining HOs then it might be another class that has to complete it), but we mostly tend to not use them. The only ward we are using at the moment is Faithful Zeal. Again though, I will try to gather some more data so I can provide a more definitive case here :p And for the most part whilst tanking, I stick to the guide I wrote up here: http://www.eq2crusaders.org/content/view/61/34/ <div></div>

[Boli32]

<div></div>In a group I once had a lower level pally  (about 4 levels lower) continually steal the agro off me, surprisingly it came because she had redemption going - she had thrown it up over the main healer; once she got the agro it was extremely hard to pull the mob off her. for once she got the agro it was a vicious cycle as the healer would mana burn just to keep the Paladin alive. I'm not sure how the group agro works with multiple redemptions working especially when one redemption is being used on a paladin who has a SECOND redemption going. While they think it is a great idea after all the healer would find it hard to have the mob turn on them while they use their Th swordthey are on average doing more damage than you so manage to sneak ahead in the hate order and have the agro switch to them. With the vicious cycle I mentioned earlier it is near impossible to regain it. <div></div><p>Message Edited by boli on <span class=date_text>07-23-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:02 AM</span>

[lordxaveir2000]

I have a lvl 40 pally on highkeep and have no problem holding agro  i have played with about every class in game you need to learn the classes you play with and find out what works when grouped with them My wife plays eq2 as a gaurd same lvl as me  I can hold agro from her with no problem without draining my power what i do is first is hit a group taunt then oathstrike which is adept 3 then use my ward which is also adept 3 then run through my other attacks and taunt every so often another thing use your Ho's if your not. that helps  and speak to your group before just running into a mob with guns blazing  get a game plan make sure everyone knows your the MT  so they dont taunt and if in a group with someone thats same lvl or higher thats a tank class then i off tank but i would never  let a zerk tank they just dont have what it takes to get the job done :smileyhappy:

[Alarion1]

Ok, ran through Nektropos again last night. My aggro thief friend is now level 38 (as was I). He did *not* have redemption running, and I was casting Call to Glory/Divine Inspiration I think we found one of the main culprits: Blinding Bash. He was using this everytime it was available. It states it only draws like 369 threat, but I think it draws more. He pulled a single mob off me after I had single taunted twice (So I had built up at least 700 threat from taunts alone) and he grabbed it with one shield bash. After we figured this out, he almost never grabbed aggro, unless it was in the event of adds or ungrouped targets. So that seems to be what it all boils down to. I also started using blinding bash more (I wasn't in the past because of the mana cost of it) and was able to regain aggro easily on other members who had aggrod things while "exploring" (or just lagging a bit behind the group). Thanks all for the input <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <div></div>

[Pnaxx]

<P>LOL...Zerkers don't have what it takes to get the job done as a Tank eh? no comment.</P> <P>As Pally and a Zerker, I do pull agro real easy off anyone without trying. But i did notice that there is an Art I was using that had a taunt in it which I was unaware of...it wasn't mentioned in the discription.(cant remmeber the name of it off the top of my head). When I avoided useing it. it helped, but still was tough not stealing.</P> <P>One techniqhue I use is to let the Tank(if it's not me) to hold agro 5 sec b4 i hit at all...then to wait to spam arts til some time has passed and the tank really has a grip...then i throw down. I donot take pleasure in stealing agro but Zerkes build alot of hate naturally. We would have to "turn off" our toon to be safer thus reducing hp's. </P> <P>I am not playing fer about 6 months then iu may return...so til then, Happy hunting my Pally Brothers.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[SanJ]

<DIV>Dinaek,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm glad you found the source of the problem <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  Better yet, you seem to have discovered more tactics through your nightmare that may prove to make you an even more efficient tank overall!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Congratulations ... perhaps it time to upgrade Blinding Bash to adept 3?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thanks,</DIV> <DIV>Kalen</DIV>

[Ruben]

<P><BR> </P> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Alarion1 wrote:<BR>I have been having trouble with aggro management, but only with another Paladin, whom is in the same guild with me and I group with somewhat often.<BR><BR>He states he isn't taunting, and I haven't noticed him taunting at all either.<BR><BR>Now here's a scenario:<BR><BR>I pull some mob with a dd spell (Divine Vengance, let's say), then on the incoming I debuff/taunt with Smite Prayer, immediately followed with my largest single target taunt (one of the learning skills), ward,  next I usually do a charge, oath strike, implacable wrath, single taunt again, followed with a casting of Call to Glory/Divine Inspiration.<BR><BR>With all that done, this Paladin (who at the time, was 1-2 levels under me) still pulls aggro. Oh did I mention I had Redemption on this Pally?<BR><BR>Once he gets aggro, I can *never* pull it off him. No matter what combination of taunts, rescue, heals, wards, buffs, DDs I use.<BR><BR>All my skills listed above are App4 or Adept 1. I will say that typically, he is the main healer as we don't have a normal templar we group with. But even so, I throw in a couple heals myself to try and maintain the aggro.<BR><BR>I really don't understand how he is pulling aggro. I have noticed it doesn't happen as often as it did since I upgraded all my skills. Before, most were app1s and he pulled aggro every single fight. Now it's more like 1 in 5.<BR><BR>The only time I actually have been able to pull aggro back from him, is when it's a multi-mob encounter and he only pulled aggro on the other critters from healing me but not actually attacking them.<BR><BR>I know the combat revamp is coming, but it would be nice to have some ideas for maintaining aggro right now <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR> </P> <P>I (45 paladin) group with a 49 paladin all the time and steel agro without taunting and with them taunting all the time. Reason is they are working on agro management I am just doing max damage, cycling through 1 and half hot bars of damage will generate nice hate hehe. Usually if i get agro i just goto autoattack for a round and she get the agro back, if I continue to max my damage then yes it impossible to get agro back from what I have seen</P>

[Doylen]

Hopefully this Revamp will help <div></div>