Adept III Skills and Armor

[BlackW]

<DIV>I have been playing my high elf Paladin.   He started as an experiment in how strong a high elf Paladin could be.  I poured all of my experience from my first Paladin into him.   He has turned out very well.   I have not given up on my first Paladin and I will go back to playing him again soon. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My first major investment in my HE pally was Adept III skills, as many as I could afford.   Adept III skills always add something extra, usually hate or interruption.   They are also considered "LEGENDARY" skills so they tend do more damage to and hit heroic and raid mobs that lower lvl skills would not.   That is the good part.  The bad part is they tend to draw agro.  Adept III Sworn Strike is likely to draw agro at least once every encounter.   Last night it pulled agro off of a lvl 48 gaurdian.  Depending on the strength of the mob, that can be fatal.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If you plan to use a lot of Adept III skills and do a lot of RAIDing, I would strongly recommend that you pick up some Fabled or Ebon Armor to handle the agro those skills will generate.   You should be able to loot fabled armor or buy/find at least some ebon by lvl 50.   2 very good adept iii skills are Courageous Dash and Sworn Strike.  However, they generate a great deal of hate.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I will explain the difference that for me LEGENDARY armor made in the raid scene.   Fulginate is very good armor and should not be overlooked.   It will last you well into the late 40s.   In the King Drayek RAID zone, there is a ghost dragon named Vision of Vox (lvl 57, Epic(x4)).   If you step on the tiles around where he is, he will attack you and kill you (and your entire raid).   Without ebon armor, my HE Paladin died in one hit.   With it he died in 2 hits.   Considering that each hit is about 3k, that is very good.  Against lvl 50-52 Epic(x2) mobs, he was getting his guts stomped out when they would turn on him (the down side of adept iii spells and arts).  After I emptied the bank sold all my extra rares and got some Ebon Armor, he did not die at all in the last raid.   If you RAID you will eventually be able to afford ebon armor.  If you plan to tank a lvl 50+ RAID mob, fabled or ebon armor is essential.   If you just want to be a support tank, dps and healer, be careful where you stand and you will be fine in fulginate.  Remember that those adept iii spells and arts are great but if you are not careful with them, you could find yourself getting stomped on by a very angry raid mob <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[djhbeek]

a good point.  i will note that it depends on what gear/skills your guardian has as well.  i have never pulled agro off a lv 50 full fabled/master taunt guardian simply by dps'ing, in fact, it's a little tough to peal them, even when taunting. <div></div>

[MeridianR]

<span><blockquote><hr>djhbeek wrote:a good point.  i will note that it depends on what gear/skills your guardian has as well.  i have never pulled agro off a lv 50 full fabled/master taunt guardian simply by dps'ing, in fact, it's a little tough to peal them, even when taunting. <div></div><hr></blockquote>I agree, though I was able to take aggro from our L50 Guardian MT (half fabled about) via my Royal Great Flail proc'ing, but it was only against Misty against King Drayek so it wasn't bad....plus he wasn't taunting all the time. On the other hand, even with taunting, every so often one of our Zerkers takes aggro from him.... <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></span><div></div>

[BlackW]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> MeridianR wrote:<BR><SPAN><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> djhbeek wrote:<BR>a good point.  i will note that it depends on what gear/skills your guardian has as well.  i have never pulled agro off a lv 50 full fabled/master taunt guardian simply by dps'ing, in fact, it's a little tough to peal them, even when taunting.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>I agree, though I was able to take aggro from our L50 Guardian MT (half fabled about) via my Royal Great Flail proc'ing, but it was only against Misty against King Drayek so it wasn't bad....plus he wasn't taunting all the time.<BR><BR>On the other hand, even with taunting, every so often one of our Zerkers takes aggro from him.... <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR></SPAN> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Pulling agro off the MT usually involves HOs/Taunting, Refusal of Grace and Sworn Strike, all Adept III.  Last night it was Agony and The Bartender.  Pulled agro off the MT on both of them.  First MT was a 46 pally  (my HE pally is 43), second MT was a 48 uber gear Gaurdian.  Dont know about his skills.  I think it usually involves a combination of damage and hate.   In an uber raid, if you have those a3 skills and no legendary or fabled armor, you can quickly become a stain.</DIV>

[Korpo]

<span><blockquote><hr>BlackWeb wrote:<div>My first major investment in my HE pally was Adept III skills, as many as I could afford.   Adept III skills always add something extra, usually hate or interruption. <font color="#ff0000">Adept3s add nothing to any spell. They (generally) increase the amount of buff, debuff, heal, damage, whatever the point of the spell is.</font> They are also considered "LEGENDARY" skills so they tend do more damage to and hit heroic and raid mobs that lower lvl skills would not.   That is the good part.  The bad part is they tend to draw agro.  <font color="#ff0000">The extra agro is from the extra damage that you do, not because they are legendary. Lower quality skills hit heroic and epic mobs just fine, but some claim higher quality spells (i.e. adept3 or master1) get reisted less.</font> </div> <div> </div> <div>2 very good adept iii skills are Courageous Dash and Sworn Strike.  However, they generate a great deal of hate. <font color="#ff0000">Courageous Dash has a taunt built into it, I hope it generates hate. As for these being very good, that would depend on what job you want to do. If you are the MT, Sworn Strike is going to be lower on the upgrade totem pole than things like Zealous Preaching or Benediction.</font> </div> <div> </div> <div>In the King Drayek RAID zone, there is a ghost dragon named Vision of Vox (lvl 57, Epic(x4)).   <font color="#ff0000">You mean... Permafrost? Drayek is in an instance off of Permafrost, called Icebound.</font> If you step on the tiles around where he is, he will attack you and kill you (and your entire raid). <font color="#ff0000">And anyone in the general area <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.</font> </div><hr></blockquote>Hmmm.</span><div></div>

[Dwergux]

<span><blockquote><hr>BlackWeb wrote:<div>2 very good adept iii skills are Courageous Dash and Sworn Strike.  However, they generate a great deal of hate.</div><hr></blockquote>Couragous Dash is one of the worst skills to make Adept 3 imho. The only thing the adept 3 increases is the damage done. The hate generated is still the same (480). This skill is mainly uased for 2 reasons : 1. Generate hate. 2. Stun the mob. It is not used for it's damage (for the damage portion of this skill is way too low and the reuse timer is horrible) Good options for Adept 3 are: (at least IMHO) - Sworn Strike (as you stated) - Refusal of Grace - Pious(?) Aid (the level 50 heal) - Clarion Call (taunt, for when you are MT) - Zealous Preaching (group taunt, for when you are MT) - Redemption (low level, but very usefull for those players who can't control their own aggro)</span><div></div>

[Yrield]

To the "good" list you can add: Devout sacrament Virtuous Touch Decree (no Im not crazy <span>:smileymad:</span>) Benediction <div></div>

[BlackW]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Dwergux wrote:<BR><SPAN><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> BlackWeb wrote:<BR> <DIV>2 very good adept iii skills are Courageous Dash and Sworn Strike.  However, they generate a great deal of hate.</DIV> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Couragous Dash is one of the worst skills to make Adept 3 imho.<BR><BR>The only thing the adept 3 increases is the damage done. The hate generated is still the same (480). This skill is mainly uased for 2 reasons : 1. Generate hate. 2. Stun the mob. It is not used for it's damage (for the damage portion of this skill is way too low and the reuse timer is horrible)<BR><BR>Good options for Adept 3 are: (at least IMHO)<BR><BR>- Sworn Strike (as you stated)<BR>- Refusal of Grace<BR>- Pious(?) Aid (the level 50 heal)<BR>- Clarion Call (taunt, for when you are MT)<BR>- Zealous Preaching (group taunt, for when you are MT)<BR>- Redemption (low level, but very usefull for those players who can't control their own aggro)<BR></SPAN> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>I get a lot of kills with courageous dash, the stun is effective and it helps me maintain agro when i am tanking.<BR>

[BlackW]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> korpo53 wrote:<BR><SPAN><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> BlackWeb wrote: <DIV>My first major investment in my HE pally was Adept III skills, as many as I could afford.   Adept III skills always add something extra, usually hate or interruption. <BR><BR><FONT color=#ff0000>Adept3s add nothing to any spell. They (generally) increase the amount of buff, debuff, heal, damage, whatever the point of the spell is.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>>Incorrect, Adept IIIs always add something extra, usually interruption or hate generation.  They also increase the effectiveness of the basic spell.  That something extra will become more important in the combat upgrade.<BR></FONT><BR>They are also considered "LEGENDARY" skills so they tend do more damage to and hit heroic and raid mobs that lower lvl skills would not.   That is the good part.  The bad part is they tend to draw agro.  <BR><BR><FONT color=#ff0000>The extra agro is from the extra damage that you do, not because they are legendary. Lower quality skills hit heroic and epic mobs just fine, but some claim higher quality spells (i.e. adept3 or master1) get reisted less.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>>I think we are splitting hairs here.  They do more damage because they are LEGENDARY.   I was grouped with a 45 Wizard recently, fighting a 44 heroic ghost monk (Sartar).  My Adept III spells and arts were doing more damage than his 2000 damage nuke.  He was very frustrated.  He could barely touch the ghost monk.</FONT><BR></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>2 very good adept iii skills are Courageous Dash and Sworn Strike.  However, they generate a great deal of hate.<BR><BR><FONT color=#ff0000>Courageous Dash has a taunt built into it, I hope it generates hate. As for these being very good, that would depend on what job you want to do. If you are the MT, Sworn Strike is going to be lower on the upgrade totem pole than things like Zealous Preaching or Benediction.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>>I said nothing about other skills being bad for upgrades.   I happen to like courageous dash.  This thread is not about what the best Adept III skills are for tier5 Paladins.</FONT><BR></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In the King Drayek RAID zone, there is a ghost dragon named Vision of Vox (lvl 57, Epic(x4)).   <BR><BR><FONT color=#ff0000>You mean... Permafrost? Drayek is in an instance off of Permafrost, called Icebound.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>>I would not go most places in PermaFrost without a RAID.   The only groups I see there are RAIDs.  I had forgotten the name of the instanced zone.  Thanks!<BR></FONT><BR>If you step on the tiles around where he is, he will attack you and kill you (and your entire raid).<BR><BR><FONT color=#ff0000>And anyone in the general area <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>>Yes, very nasty mob.  Has he ever been killed?</FONT><BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Hmmm.<BR></SPAN> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>You must understand, everything I say about Paladin gameplay is experience based.  If I had not experienced and seen what I have talked about in this thread, I would not have said it.   My alt Paladin has ALL of the Tier5 a3 spells and arts so I know what each and every one of them I have used can and cannot do.</P> <P>Oh btw Franksen, I have seen your Warlock in action, very impressive.   However, you need to emember that Warlocks are not tanks <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P><p>Message Edited by BlackWeb on <span class=date_text>07-19-2005</span> <span class=time_text>07:23 AM</span>

[djhbeek]

<span><blockquote><hr>BlackWeb wrote:<div></div> <div></div> <blockquote> <hr> korpo53 wrote:<span> <blockquote> <hr> BlackWeb wrote:<div>In the King Drayek RAID zone, there is a ghost dragon named Vision of Vox (lvl 57, Epic(x4)).   <font color="#ff0000">You mean... Permafrost? Drayek is in an instance off of Permafrost, called Icebound.</font></div> <div><font color="#ffff00">>I would not go most places in PermaFrost without a RAID.   The only groups I see there are RAIDs.  I had forgotten the name of the instanced zone.  Thanks! <font color="#cc6600">Um ... I xp in PF for quite a while at 48-50 or so ... there are a couple of x2s in there, but they are mostly 1-groupable, except Vox of course.</font></font>If you step on the tiles around where he is, he will attack you and kill you (and your entire raid).<font color="#ff0000">And anyone in the general area <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.</font></div> <div><font color="#ffff00">>Yes, very nasty mob.  Has he ever been killed? </font><span><span><font color="#ffff00"><font color="#cc6600">Yes, I have stood over HER corpse.  She's tough, but can be beaten.</font></font></span></span> </div> <hr> </blockquote>Hmmm.</span> <div></div> <hr> </blockquote> <p>You must understand, everything I say about Paladin gameplay is experience based.  If I had not experienced and seen what I have talked about in this thread, I would not have said it.   My alt Paladin has ALL of the Tier5 a3 spells and arts so I know what each and every one of them I have used can and cannot do.</p> <p>Oh btw Franksen, I have seen your Wizard in action, very impressive.   However, you need to emember that Wizards are not tanks <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>Message Edited by BlackWeb on <span class="date_text">07-19-2005</span> <span class="time_text">07:15 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote>I haven't checked, but if memory serves, i think you are wrong on the adept3 thing as well ... kinda funny that you talk about all your experience, but you don't really know PF that well.  Just an observation, take it for what you will ...</span><div></div>

[Yrield]

Courageous Dash don't scale well when upgraded +480 hate from app1 to master1 60-80 crushing dmg at master1 single target stun from app1 to master1 <div></div>

[BlackW]

<DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> djhbeek wrote:<BR><SPAN><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> BlackWeb wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> korpo53 wrote:<BR><SPAN><BR></SPAN></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>You must understand, everything I say about Paladin gameplay is experience based.  If I had not experienced and seen what I have talked about in this thread, I would not have said it.   My alt Paladin has ALL of the Tier5 a3 spells and arts so I know what each and every one of them I have used can and cannot do.</P> <P>Oh btw Franksen, I have seen your Warlock in action, very impressive.   However, you need to emember that Warlocks are not tanks <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>Message Edited by BlackWeb on <SPAN class=date_text>07-19-2005</SPAN><SPAN class=time_text>07:15 AM</SPAN><BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>I haven't checked, but if memory serves, i think you are wrong on the adept3 thing as well ... kinda funny that you talk about all your experience, but you don't really know PF that well.  Just an observation, take it for what you will ...<BR></SPAN> <P><BR></P> <HR> <P>LOL!  I never said I was an expert on PermaFrost.   I have been there 3 times.  I said I do not talk about anything I have not experienced.   I did not say I have experienced everything in EQ2.</P> <P> This thread is about Adept III (LEGENDARY) spells and combat arts and LEGENDARY and FABLED armor not PermaFrost.   I will check my tier5 Adept III spells, I dont remember one that does not add something extra though there may be an exception.   Sometimes that something extra is useful, sometimes it is not.   The something extra is usually interruption or hate, sometimes it is a buff.  The extra hate generation for a3 spells and arts does tend to accumulate rather rapidly.   If you do not have the armor to survive drawing the agro you gain, be careful with them.  I am talking about the difference between Apprentice I and Adept III spells and arts.  </P></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P><p>Message Edited by BlackWeb on <span class=date_text>07-19-2005</span> <span class=time_text>07:52 AM</span>

[djhbeek]

hmmm ... how many of the adept3's add something extra between adept1 and adept3?  since you can usually get to adept1 for pocket change, if it's not between adept1 and adept3 that you get an extra, then the extras are really a reason to go adept3.  as i say ... i really am curious, as i haven't looked at this issue in detail, but my brief looks at adept3 dps upgrades was that they were ok, but not on the top of my list ... now i've forgotten what this thread is about ... hope i was on-topic.  <span>:smileysad:</span> <div></div>

[Korpo]

<span><blockquote><hr>BlackWeb wrote:<div></div> <div></div> <div></div> <blockquote> <hr> korpo53 wrote:<span> <blockquote> <hr> BlackWeb wrote: <div>My first major investment in my HE pally was Adept III skills, as many as I could afford.   Adept III skills always add something extra, usually hate or interruption. <font color="#ff0000">Adept3s add nothing to any spell. They (generally) increase the amount of buff, debuff, heal, damage, whatever the point of the spell is.</font></div> <div><font color="#ffff00">>Incorrect, Adept IIIs always add something extra, usually interruption or hate generation.  They also increase the effectiveness of the basic spell.  That something extra will become more important in the combat upgrade. <img src="http://myspace-853.vo.llnwd.net/00161/35/81/161611853_l.jpg"> <img src="http://myspace-968.vo.llnwd.net/00161/86/91/161611968_l.jpg"></font> <font color="#6633ff">Show me what these two adept 3s add over a lower level version. Better yet, post a screenshot of one single adept 3 that adds something.</font> They are also considered "LEGENDARY" skills so they tend do more damage to and hit heroic and raid mobs that lower lvl skills would not.   That is the good part.  The bad part is they tend to draw agro.  <font color="#ff0000">The extra agro is from the extra damage that you do, not because they are legendary. Lower quality skills hit heroic and epic mobs just fine, but some claim higher quality spells (i.e. adept3 or master1) get reisted less.</font></div> <div><font color="#ffff00">>I think we are splitting hairs here.  They do more damage because they are LEGENDARY.   I was grouped with a 45 Wizard recently, fighting a 44 heroic ghost monk (Sartar).  My Adept III spells and arts were doing more damage than his 2000 damage nuke.  He was very frustrated.  He could barely touch the ghost monk. <font color="#6633ff"> </font><font color="#6633ff">They do more damage because the number on the art is higher, not because of the world LEGENDARY. An apprentice 4 (HANDCRAFTED) or adept 1 Sworn Strike (TREASURED) will do more damage than an adept 3 Oath Strike (LEGENDARY).</font> </font></div> <div> </div> <div>2 very good adept iii skills are Courageous Dash and Sworn Strike.  However, they generate a great deal of hate.<font color="#ff0000">Courageous Dash has a taunt built into it, I hope it generates hate. As for these being very good, that would depend on what job you want to do. If you are the MT, Sworn Strike is going to be lower on the upgrade totem pole than things like Zealous Preaching or Benediction.</font></div> <div><font color="#ffff00">>I said nothing about other skills being bad for upgrades.   I happen to like courageous dash.  This thread is not about what the best Adept III skills are for tier5 Paladins. <font color="#6633ff"> </font><font color="#6633ff">As I said, it depends on what job you want to do. As I said, if you are going to MT, you would be better off with high quality taunts and defense buffs than you would with damage spells.</font> </font></div> <div> </div> <div>In the King Drayek RAID zone, there is a ghost dragon named Vision of Vox (lvl 57, Epic(x4)).   <font color="#ff0000">You mean... Permafrost? Drayek is in an instance off of Permafrost, called Icebound.</font></div> <div><font color="#ffff00">>I would not go most places in PermaFrost without a RAID.   The only groups I see there are RAIDs.  I had forgotten the name of the instanced zone.  Thanks! <font color="#6633ff"> </font><font color="#6633ff">There are only a few raid mobs that pop in Perma. Drayek is an instance (so I'm not counting him), Knubbed, Vision of Vox, Gryrock Deepfreeze (if you count him as a raid mob), and one more x2 giant, I forget his name. You can also rez Vox incorrectly and fight her, though I never have. There's a ton of stuff in there for a high 40s group.</font></font>If you step on the tiles around where he is, he will attack you and kill you (and your entire raid).<font color="#ff0000">And anyone in the general area <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.</font></div> <div><font color="#ffff00">>Yes, very nasty mob.  Has he ever been killed? <font color="#6633ff"> </font><font color="#6633ff">Often.</font> </font></div> <hr> </blockquote>Hmmm.</span> <div></div> <hr> </blockquote> <p>You must understand, everything I say about Paladin gameplay is experience based.  If I had not experienced and seen what I have talked about in this thread, I would not have said it.   My alt Paladin has ALL of the Tier5 a3 spells and arts so I know what each and every one of them I have used can and cannot do.</p> <p>Oh btw Franksen, I have seen your Warlock in action, very impressive.   However, you need to emember that Warlocks are not tanks <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>Message Edited by BlackWeb on <span class="date_text">07-19-2005</span> <span class="time_text">07:23 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote></span><div></div>

[WAPCE]

<blockquote><hr>BlackWeb wrote: <DIV>If you plan to use a lot of Adept III skills and do a lot of RAIDing, I would strongly recommend that you pick up some Fabled or Ebon Armor to handle the agro those skills will generate.</DIV> <hr></blockquote> A month ago we were still actively discussing a thread you started where you stated ebon is too rare and that anyone that has more than one piece is cheating and buying plat. Could you tell us where you bought yours?

[BlackW]

<DIV>What ebon?  I am not wearing ebon.  None of my characters are wearing ebon except for one pristine imbued ebon long sword.</DIV> <P>My Paladin alt is unbelievably lucky at finding rares.   He finds about 1-3 every harvesting session.   He even found some Ebon in the feerrot.  He sold a couple of dragon eggs, did some crafting, sold some crafted items, got some good mob drops, sold that.   He is a much higher lvl artisan than this character.  He has done well in the market, harvesting and crafting.   The only outside source of coin was the dragon eggs which of course are 100% legit.</P><p>Message Edited by BlackWeb on <span class=date_text>07-19-2005</span> <span class=time_text>12:19 PM</span>

[BlackW]

Ok, I was wrong about those skills Franksen.   Thanks for the heads up.   I have been told that there will be something extra in each a3 in the combat upgrade.   One thing we can agree on is that all of the a3 skills are legendary.   They hit better for me than lower lvl skills.  Why that is, I am not sure but they sure do work well for me

[BlackW]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> WAPCE wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> BlackWeb wrote:<BR> <DIV>If you plan to use a lot of Adept III skills and do a lot of RAIDing, I would strongly recommend that you pick up some Fabled or Ebon Armor to handle the agro those skills will generate.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>A month ago we were still actively discussing a thread you started where you stated ebon is too rare and that anyone that has more than one piece is cheating and buying plat. Could you tell us where you bought yours?<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>That is not what I said.  I did not say ebon was too rare, I said it was too expensive.   I did not say that anyone who had ebon was cheating.   I am not going to go over that again here.  Read the thread again (I will let you find it).  Please stop saying things that are not true. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My assumption for this thread is that those with the coin to buy ebon and a3 or loot fabled armor are 45+ and RAID frequently.   There are many raid mobs including Drayek that drop ebon and ruby.   This thread is meant for those who either raid frequently or plan to do so.   This is a Paladin end-game thread.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I am going to go make some armor with my Paladin alt.  He is broke after getting that ebon armor made and I could really use the coin.</DIV><p>Message Edited by BlackWeb on <span class=date_text>07-19-2005</span> <span class=time_text>12:33 PM</span>

[WAPCE]

<blockquote><hr>BlackWeb wrote: If someone is wearing full pristine imbued ebon vangaurd plate along with ebon weapons, a cedar kite shield and maybe some rare fashoined jewelry along with full adept iii skills, either they have their entire guild feeding them coin and items, are an uber successful lvl 45+ artisan or they are they are using botted coin (coin purchased from botters with real life coin). <hr></blockquote> Very mature message you sent me, by the way. Your parents must be proud.

[BlackW]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> WAPCE wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> BlackWeb wrote:<BR><BR>If someone is wearing full pristine imbued ebon vangaurd plate along with ebon weapons, a cedar kite shield and maybe some rare fashoined jewelry along with full adept iii skills, either they have their entire guild feeding them coin and items, are an uber successful lvl 45+ artisan or they are they are using botted coin (coin purchased from botters with real life coin).<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Very mature message you sent me, by the way. Your parents must be proud.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>How nice, I have another forum stalker :smileysurprised:</P> <P>I do not respond to the posts of flamers and forum stalkers who refuse to stay on topic so I will no longer respond to any of your posts.  Have a nice day :smileyhappy:</P> <p>Message Edited by BlackWeb on <span class=date_text>07-19-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:32 PM</span>

[Oakbr]

<EM>First MT was a 46 pally  (my HE pally is 43), second MT was a 48 uber gear Gaurdian.  Dont know about his skills.  I think it usually involves a combination of damage and hate.   In an uber raid, if you have those a3 skills and no legendary or fabled armor, you can quickly become a stain.</EM> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If your MT is a level 46 anything, you are not on an "uber raid".</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If your MT is a 46 Pally when a  "48 uber gear Guardian" is available, you are not on an "uber raid".</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If your MT is a 46 Pally and a 43 Pally is stealing aggro, neither of them are doing a very good job.</DIV>

[BlackW]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Oakbrow wrote:<BR><EM>First MT was a 46 pally  (my HE pally is 43), second MT was a 48 uber gear Gaurdian.  Dont know about his skills.  I think it usually involves a combination of damage and hate.   In an uber raid, if you have those a3 skills and no legendary or fabled armor, you can quickly become a stain.</EM> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If your MT is a level 46 anything, you are not on an "uber raid".</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If your MT is a 46 Pally when a  "48 uber gear Guardian" is available, you are not on an "uber raid".</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If your MT is a 46 Pally and a 43 Pally is stealing aggro, neither of them are doing a very good job.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Welcome back forum stalker #1.  I see you have not changed.  More off-topic posts and personal flames.  I told you I would not respond to any more of your posts and this one is no exception.  Please troll elsewhere :smileywink:

[Oakbr]

<P><EM> I see you have not changed.  More off-topic posts and personal flames</EM></P> <P>How is my post off topic, or a personal flame?  We're talking about spells and armor  in the high end game, right?  The scenario you described does not meet my definition of an uber raid.  Sounds more like a begining raid.  Not saying that's a bad thing, just saying it's in a whole different zip code from "end game raiding".  In EQ1 terms, it's like you were raidng Luclin bosses and trying to compare it to raidng Time.  </P>

[BlackW]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Oakbrow wrote:<BR> <P><EM>I see you have not changed.  More off-topic posts and personal flames</EM></P> <P>How is my post off topic, or a personal flame?  We're talking about spells and armor  in the high end game, right?  The scenario you described does not meet my definition of an uber raid.  Sounds more like a begining raid.  Not saying that's a bad thing, just saying it's in a whole different zip code from "end game raiding".  In EQ1 terms, it's like you were raidng Luclin bosses and trying to compare it to raidng Time.  </P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>I will respond to your tiresome post/flame.  If you keep making posts like that, I will stop responding.  The uber raid in Icebound consisted of 3 groups, 90% of whom were lvl 50, most classes represented.  Tank is usually a 50 Paladin or Gaurdian.  Sometimes berzerker.   I was the lowest lvl there at 42.  I did not pull agro off the MT.  They brought me along as a support healer.</P> <P>The 46 pally tanked Sartar, the Feerrot monk for the FBBS.   The 48 gaurdian tanked Agony.  That was just a group of 4-6.   I pulled agro off of both of them.   Without ebon, I would have been a stain.  We killed Agony several times.   It got me once.</P>

[djhbeek]

consider this a flame if you will, but i'll try to stick to the facts.  there are no uber raids in Icebound ... it's one of the easier raids.  I'd make an exception if there were 8 people or so there, then it would be uber. <div></div>

[FrozenEnzyme]

<span><blockquote><hr>BlackWeb wrote: <p>The 46 pally tanked Sartar, the Feerrot monk for the FBBS.   The 48 gaurdian tanked Agony.  That was just a group of 4-6.   I pulled agro off of both of them.   </p> <div></div><hr></blockquote> I've accidentally pulled aggro off a 50 guardian off most raid mobs, even before all my skills were adept 3. Sartar and Agony aren't exactly super hard mobs. A group of level 40s can complete the FBSS, and I've duoed agony when I was 48 with a mid-40s chanter.</span> <span></span><div></div>

[BlackW]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> FrozenEnzyme wrote:<BR><SPAN><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> BlackWeb wrote:<BR> <P>The 46 pally tanked Sartar, the Feerrot monk for the FBBS.   The 48 gaurdian tanked Agony.  That was just a group of 4-6.   I pulled agro off of both of them.   <BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I've accidentally pulled aggro off a 50 guardian off most raid mobs, even before all my skills were adept 3.<BR><BR>Sartar and Agony aren't exactly super hard mobs. A group of level 40s can complete the FBSS, and I've duoed agony when I was 48 with a mid-40s chanter.   </SPAN><BR><SPAN></SPAN> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>The one time Agony killed me, the 48 gaurdian could not get agro back and the healer could not keep up.  I had donated 7% of my armor to the gaurdian through grant of armament.  By the time I rememberd and turned it off, it was too late.   Grant of Armament a3 turns your ebon into fulginate.<BR> <P> </P><p>Message Edited by BlackWeb on <span class=date_text>07-20-2005</span> <span class=time_text>08:06 AM</span>

[Korpo]

I can't wait to read your Crusader/Paladin guide! <div></div>

[Dwergux]

<div></div><span><blockquote><hr>BlackWeb wrote: <blockquote> <hr> Dwergux wrote:<span> <blockquote> <hr> BlackWeb wrote: <div>2 very good adept iii skills are Courageous Dash and Sworn Strike.  However, they generate a great deal of hate.</div> <hr> </blockquote>Couragous Dash is one of the worst skills to make Adept 3 imho.The only thing the adept 3 increases is the damage done. The hate generated is still the same (480). This skill is mainly uased for 2 reasons : 1. Generate hate. 2. Stun the mob. It is not used for it's damage (for the damage portion of this skill is way too low and the reuse timer is horrible)Good options for Adept 3 are: (at least IMHO)- Sworn Strike (as you stated)- Refusal of Grace- Pious(?) Aid (the level 50 heal)- Clarion Call (taunt, for when you are MT)- Zealous Preaching (group taunt, for when you are MT)- Redemption (low level, but very usefull for those players who can't control their own aggro)</span> <hr> </blockquote>I get a lot of kills with courageous dash, the stun is effective and it helps me maintain agro when i am tanking. <hr></blockquote>I'm not saying it's a bad skill, I'm just saying it's not a good choice to upgrade. Look at the compiled spelldata sheet: </span><font size="1"><font size="2">*<b>Courageous Dash </b>(41, mastery at 51) -App2 (50.0): 96 power, Stun target, Increase Threat by 480, Interrupts target, Inflict 25-42 crushing damage on target <i>(30-50 full gear)</i> -App4 (50.0): 97 power, Stun target, Increase Threat by 480, Interrupts target, Inflict 29-48 crushing damage on target <i>(34-56 full gear)</i> -Adept1 (50.0): 99 power, Stun target, Increase Threat by 480, Interrupts target, Inflict 29-49 crushing damage on target <i>(34-58 full gear)</i> -Master1 (50.0): 105 power, Stun target, Increase Threat by 480, Interrupts target, Inflict 36-61 crushing damage on target </font><i><font size="2">(42-71 full gear)</font> </i></font><span>As you can see, the only item improving when upgrading from appr. 2 to Master 1 is the damage. The master does 42-71 damage fully geared so that would be about 39-69 damage. (And thus adding 9 - 19 extra damage compare dto appr. 2) Now ask yourself : Will I use a T5 rare to add an extra 9 - 19 damage to a skill I can use every 20 seconds? (The reuse timer is 20 seconds iirc) I can tell you : I will not. I didn't even bother to look for the Adept 1 version, though I did get it from a chest some time ago. This does not mean I'm not using the skill. In fact when tanking with a shield I use this skill every time it refreshes. /edit : after rereading my post I restructured the part about damage of the adept 3 version. </span><div></div><p>Message Edited by Dwergux on <span class=date_text>07-21-2005</span> <span class=time_text>02:25 AM</span>

[Rochir]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> korpo53 wrote:<BR>I can't wait to read your Crusader/Paladin guide!<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>I read it, it is a good guide.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Rochir on <span class=date_text>07-21-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:27 AM</span>

[FrozenEnzyme]

<span><blockquote><hr>Rochir wrote: <blockquote> <hr> korpo53 wrote:I can't wait to read your Crusader/Paladin guide! <hr> </blockquote> <div>I read it, it is a good guide.</div><p>Message Edited by Rochir on <span class="date_text">07-21-2005</span> <span class="time_text">11:27 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote></span><a href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/en/pplayer.vm?characterId=263046109" target="_blank">Eldatur Aduial, High-Elf (Koada'Dal) Paladin </a><span></span> <--- level 44 paladin in the same guild as Blackweb....hmmm...WAIT....scrolling up a bit... <span><blockquote><hr>BlackWeb wrote:<div></div> <div></div> Pulling agro off the MT usually involves HOs/Taunting, Refusal of Grace and Sworn Strike, all Adept III.  Last night it was Agony and The Bartender.  Pulled agro off the MT on both of them.  First MT was a 46 pally  <b>(my HE pally is 43)</b>, second MT was a 48 uber gear Gaurdian.  Dont know about his skills.  I think it usually involves a combination of damage and hate.   In an uber raid, if you have those a3 skills and no legendary or fabled armor, you can quickly become a stain. <hr></blockquote></span>Does anyone else find this...well...odd <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />? <a href="http://orderofmarr.eqverquest2guilds.com/" target="_blank"></a><div></div>

[djhbeek]

yep, i'd love to hear the explanation for this one ... could be a coincidence, we will see ... <div></div>

[Darki]

<div></div>You shouldn't be proud about pulling aggro when you are not the main tank...  The whole group is responsible for aggro control, not just the MT.  When you pull aggro from the designated MT, whom was probably chosen due to their superior ability to mitigate damage for whatever reason be it gear or powers, you cause your group to operate at a much less effiicent level.  The MT is going to have superior buffs, your mitigation is going to be gimped because you have gift of armament on the MT, your avoidance isn't going to be optimal because you are using a 2h instead of a shield, and the MT is going to have to dump power in order to gain aggro of the encounter again while the healer(s) are going to have to dump power to keep you and everyone else that is now in the barrage arc alive.  Very smooth. You blame it on your adept 3 powers, but I have all of my T5 attack powers adept 3 and I don't steal aggro.  You complete taunt HO's when you are not the MT!?!  Maybe you should try letting the MT do that, they have taunts as well you know... I know it's already been covered, but Couragous Dash (30 second recast btw) one of the most useless upgrades you could do,  Maybe that will change with the revamp, but right now it's not worth the adept 1, let alone adept 3. Icebound is probably the easiest x4 raid instance in the game.  It's a great zone to forge your raid force with, but far from uber.  You will find that you will live longer more so due to higher resists rather than higher physical mitigation.  If you are not the main tank you have no buisness taking any melee hits in (most) raids, while AE's have to be avoided with range or mitigated with resists.  Example (numbers fictitious), The Vision of Vox's AE cold DoT might do 2k hp per tick when you have 3k cold resist, while it will do 1k hp per tick when you have 6k cold resist. <div></div><p>Message Edited by Darkith on <span class=date_text>07-25-2005</span> <span class=time_text>03:26 AM</span>

[BlackW]

<DIV>please delete</DIV> <P>Message Edited by BlackWeb on <SPAN class=date_text>07-25-2005</SPAN><SPAN class=time_text>03:44 AM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by BlackWeb on <span class=date_text>07-25-2005</span> <span class=time_text>03:44 AM</span>

[BlackW]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Darkith wrote:<BR> You shouldn't be proud about pulling aggro when you are not the main tank...  The whole group is responsible for aggro control, not just the MT.  When you pull aggro from the designated MT, whom was probably chosen due to their superior ability to mitigate damage for whatever reason be it gear or powers, you cause your group to operate at a much less effiicent level.  The MT is going to have superior buffs, your mitigation is going to be gimped because you have gift of armament on the MT, your avoidance isn't going to be optimal because you are using a 2h instead of a shield, and the MT is going to have to dump power in order to gain aggro of the encounter again while the healer(s) are going to have to dump power to keep you and everyone else that is now in the barrage arc alive.  Very smooth.<BR><BR>You blame it on your adept 3 powers, but I have all of my T5 attack powers adept 3 and I don't steal aggro.  You complete taunt HO's when you are not the MT!?!  Maybe you should try letting the MT do that, they have taunts as well you know...<BR><BR>I know it's already been covered, but Couragous Dash (30 second recast btw) one of the most useless upgrades you could do,  Maybe that will change with the revamp, but right now it's not worth the adept 1, let alone adept 3.<BR><BR>Icebound is probably the easiest x4 raid instance in the game.  It's a great zone to forge your raid force with, but far from uber.  You will find that you will live longer more so due to higher resists rather than higher physical mitigation.  If you are not the main tank you have no buisness taking any melee hits in (most) raids, while AE's have to be avoided with range or mitigated with resists.  Example (numbers fictitious), The Vision of Vox's AE cold DoT might do 2k hp per tick when you have 3k cold resist, while it will do 1k hp per tick when you have 6k cold resist.<BR> <P>Message Edited by Darkith on <SPAN class=date_text>07-25-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>03:26 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Thanks for posting on-topic.   It is good to see that someone understands that this is in fact the Paladin Forum.

[MeridianR]

<span><blockquote><hr>Darkith wrote:<div></div>You shouldn't be proud about pulling aggro when you are not the main tank...  The whole group is responsible for aggro control, not just the MT.  When you pull aggro from the designated MT, whom was probably chosen due to their superior ability to mitigate damage for whatever reason be it gear or powers, you cause your group to operate at a much less effiicent level.  The MT is going to have superior buffs, your mitigation is going to be gimped because you have gift of armament on the MT, your avoidance isn't going to be optimal because you are using a 2h instead of a shield, and the MT is going to have to dump power in order to gain aggro of the encounter again while the healer(s) are going to have to dump power to keep you and everyone else that is now in the barrage arc alive.  Very smooth. You blame it on your adept 3 powers, but I have all of my T5 attack powers adept 3 and I don't steal aggro.  You complete taunt HO's when you are not the MT!?!  Maybe you should try letting the MT do that, they have taunts as well you know... I know it's already been covered, but Couragous Dash (30 second recast btw) one of the most useless upgrades you could do,  Maybe that will change with the revamp, but right now it's not worth the adept 1, let alone adept 3. <b> Icebound is probably the easiest x4 raid instance in the game.  It's a great zone to forge your raid force with, but far from uber.  You will find that you will live longer more so due to higher resists rather than higher physical mitigation</b>.  If you are not the main tank you have no buisness taking any melee hits in (most) raids, while AE's have to be avoided with range or mitigated with resists.  Example (numbers fictitious), The Vision of Vox's AE cold DoT might do 2k hp per tick when you have 3k cold resist, while it will do 1k hp per tick when you have 6k cold resist. <div></div><p>Message Edited by Darkith on <span class="date_text">07-25-2005</span> <span class="time_text">03:26 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote>Actually it's not as easy as it once was anymore...yes it is still very doable, and without a full raid force, but they added in a little AoE Stun / Throwback from the adds. It takes a couple mins to get used to, but when you get hit with that the first time it is pretty shocking....</span><div></div>

[Darki]

When did they add the stun?  I have not noticed it on Drayek's adds and I frequently tank them. <div></div>

[MeridianR]

<span><blockquote><hr>Darkith wrote:When did they add the stun?  I have not noticed it on Drayek's adds and I frequently tank them. <div></div><hr></blockquote>We noticed it on Thursday night, when we raided him.  Seems they like to AoE stun/throw people around them. Makes it a little tougher, but there is a way to minimize your lose (on the throw back, since you can't really stop the stun) Drayek is always our first raid of the night, so we were a little shocked when this was added.....not sure if it was stealth, but he does seem to initial blow with Ice Comet a lot more now also <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></span><div></div>

[BlackW]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> MeridianR wrote:<BR><SPAN><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Darkith wrote:<BR>When did they add the stun?  I have not noticed it on Drayek's adds and I frequently tank them.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>We noticed it on Thursday night, when we raided him.  Seems they like to AoE stun/throw people around them. Makes it a little tougher, but there is a way to minimize your lose (on the throw back, since you can't really stop the stun)<BR><BR>Drayek is always our first raid of the night, so we were a little shocked when this was added.....not sure if it was stealth, but he does seem to initial blow with Ice Comet a lot more now also <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR></SPAN> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I have been grinding on the test server in the Feerrot.  I noticed that the Tae Ew Headhunter has AoE now.  I am not sure he had it before, I dont remember him having it.   I fought him with a group of 3.   We killed the sorcerer first because we thought the AoE was coming from it but it kept coming and eventually we got wiped, primarily because of the AoE from the HH.  I think they may have added AoE to a lot of epic mobs.   For mobs like the HH that get farmed (and sometimes botted) a lot, AoE could make farming significantly more difficult.  

[Dwergux]

I've already made my post about Adept III spells. Here a bit about armor. Fulginate Armor is good armor for the price it goes for. Getting a full set at level 40 (unless you have some Feysteel) ought to give a nice boost. When you raid often, you will see lots of Ebons (and Rubies) drop, so obtaining those when raiding shouldn't be too hard, but it will take some time as more people are interested in upgrading armor and weapons with ebon. Some other items to look out for besides ebon armor are: - Drudo's kicking boots - Quest reward for killing 100 nightbloods in Rivervale. These boots aren't as good as Ebon, but the difference isn't huge, so you might consider using your ebon elsewhere first. - Legendary Journeyman boots - HQ for doing lots of running. The best thing about these boots is the runspeed increase (which doesn't stack with horses). The stats aren't too great. - Golden Efreeti Boots - Quest Reward for the Saving Soles HQ - Handy when you are not tanking, so the extra power regen can help alot. Also the fire resist might come in handy, - Tae Ew Scale Helm - Quest reward for one of the progressive quests in Feerrott. - Although the resists and mitigation are less than on the ebon, this is the helmet I wear the most because of its stat bonus (STA and STR instead of INT and WIS on most helmets) - Rubicite armor - Drops in CT (iirc) - Stats aren't far behind ebon so a good choice for when you can't get ebon armor - Thulzite Armor - Drops in the Froglok Raid instance - No Raw HP or Power, but nice stats, very good all round resist gear (160 to all resists) and high mitigation (higher mit than ebon armor) Jewlery - Enchanted Bone Necklace - Quest Reward for completing the enchanted bones collection - Good stats, nice HP and Power - Curn Eye Necklace - Quest Reward in EF - Has 1 more sta than the Enchanted Bone necklace, and 4 more STR, but less raw power and HP, It has great resists - Ancient Slayers Ring of ... - Quest Reward for killing the watcher in the Catacombs dungeon in Antonica - Ok stats, best thing about this ring is the Haste. - (Enchanted) Ruby Ring (of ...) - Good stats on the rare crated ring, when you go for one of these rings it's good to consider having it imbued for a stat buff. - Enchanted Bloodstone rings - Not for wearing, just use them for the buff and then swap them to inventory - Black Diamond Ring - Common drop of Master Webclaw in Everfrost - Ok ring for when you can't afford a ruby ring yet - Flowing Black silk sash - Quest reward for the Teachings of Yoru (sp.) HQ - Currently the best (non fabled) belt for mellee characters, due to its good stats and haste. - Rare crafted belt - Player crafted - These are for special occasions when poison resist is needed. - Bracelet of Glowing Shards - Quest reward for completing the glowing shards Collection quest - good stats for bracelets <div></div>