Ghoulbane /gripe

[Knesh]

Why all of a sudden a paladin only weapon 500 years ago is now usable by more than just us? It's a Paladin holy weapon and all of a sudden it can be used by non paladins?!? <div></div>

[SK_Phantas]

<P>actually im a pally and i dont use mine, and rarely did even when it was yellow/orange - i found the chance of more mana from the PGT proc much more usefull then the undead only proc (against undead of course)</P>

[Knesh]

I agree with ya. But the Ghoulbane had the sole purpose of being involved in the Soulfire quest. So it was required to have - not a uberly great weapon, but going from paladin only to any fighter type is wrong. Thats like saying the Soulfire can be used by an SK... Makes no sense! <div></div>

[Phatt]

I agree, that would be like giving us the ability to use bows and dual wield... all the other tanks would say its not fair because we can do what they do AND heal AND use divine attacks, etc...  so this should be OUR thing, that nobody else can use.... like guard/zerk and tower shields. <div></div>

[Kalyri]

<DIV>"Thats like saying the Soulfire can be used by an SK... Makes no sense!"</DIV> <DIV>-Knesh</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If I correctly remember the lore that was posted before the release of Everquest II, Lucan D'Lere picked up Soulfire at the battle of the Greenmist before an avatar could reach it, so yes, it *is* being used by a shadowknight... of some sorts. *Shamelessly wanders off to weep in a corner*</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Edit: Actually: <A href="http://everquest2.station.sony.com/en/main.vm#loreArtifactsSoulfire" target=_blank>http://everquest2.station.sony.com/en/main.vm#loreArtifactsSoulfire</A></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Soulfire is in the hands of a fallen paladin we all love so much... wee <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>/Edit<BR></DIV><p>Message Edited by Kalyrion on <span class=date_text>07-06-2005</span> <span class=time_text>07:48 PM</span>

[Knesh]

Well lore and actually playing EQ1.. The story line is this: In EQ1 - we had to kill lucan d'lere for the sword of faith which is the blade of soulfire with a different hilt. When combined with the hilt of soulfire found in Mistmoore. It once again became Soulfire. Now after all that has happened Lucan is in possession of Soulfire. Lucan is a fallen paladin. Not an SK. SK's aren't paladins who feel the the other side. Sk's are based on the faith of necromancy and fighter. Because he was once a paladin but no longer walks the path he is still able to equip it. Lucan was once the leader of the Freeport Milita which it now appears he won and is now the Ruler of Freeport. At least, until the Gods return. Ghoulbane in EQ1 was a Paladin only weapon no other class could wield it.. How can it now be that many classes are able to use it. Perhaps in Ghoulbanes weakend form other classes may be able to handle the power of the weapon but a full str. Ghoulbane should only be equipable by a Paladin class. <div></div>

[Pallbearer]

The only RP explanation that I can think of that would explain why other fighters are able to use Ghoulbane is that perhaps with the disappearance of the "gods" of Norrath that the "holy" nature of Ghoulbane is gone temporarily.  Thus, any fighter can now wield it. (yea, I know it's a stretch, but what're ya gonna do?) <span>:smileytongue:</span> <div></div>

[redoule]

Lucan has had 500 years to corrupt Soulfire.  Doesn't Soulfire feed on the souls of those it kills? The Ghoulbane thing kinda erked me also.  I just figure it is a Ghoulbane, just not THE Ghoulbane.  Also it was restored from a broken state.  It just attunes itself to the one who restored it. <div></div>

[RyFord00]

<DIV>um SkPhantasie.. the ghoulbane proc isnt only against undead....</DIV>

[Lawman]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> RyFord00 wrote:<BR> <DIV>um SkPhantasie.. the ghoulbane proc isnt only against undead....</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>And an incredibly weak one at that.</P> <P>I think it should be pally only.. But i also think its not the end of the world if its not..  Although, the proc (however idiotically weak it is) should be only available to paladins.  That makes the most sense to me.</P> <P>Then again, I think we should be able to use tower shields, and bows... call me crazy...</P>

[Rellikd]

I like the idea of the gods arnt here so the holy power of goulbane has left, leaving it open for any person, evil or good, to pick it up and use it. I'd say maybe in future adventure packs/expansion packs that there should be a quest only paladins can complete that restores the ghoulbanes holy order. Maybe something called The Holy Goulbane. Or do a quest using goulbane for soulfire. Also, class epic weapons, where are these? I'd like all these ideas into one. Quest for The Holy Goulbane, using that for Soulfire, then using soulfire to get the epic weapon. Would also be cool to see a weapon able to be used 1 handed AND 2 handed. Maybe a 2 handed weapon with like 50 dammage and 30 delay could become 1 handed when a shield is equipted to have something like 30 dammage and 40 delay. Had that kinda on diablo 2 always thought it was a good idea. sorry, got to thinking thought i'd write it down. <div></div>

[K'aldar]

rellikdab thats a great idea.. and with the both 1 handed and 2 handed idea as well. played diablo 2 myself and personally loved that aspect of the game, gave many more options. <div></div>

[BlackW]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Knesh wrote:<BR>Why all of a sudden a paladin only weapon 500 years ago is now usable by more than just us? It's a Paladin holy weapon and all of a sudden it can be used by non paladins?!? <BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>If the Ghoulbane were Paladin only, very few would do the quest.

[eyes007]

Look out for the future guys, I don't think the "EPIC WEAPONS" of old has died. There is a reason why Lucan has it, and one day there will be a chance to raid Freeport and it's inner sanctum to kill or incapacitate Lucan to get the sword or something that involves initiating Soulfire (although I recall the weakened form of Soulfire being something else which for some reason I can't remember). Ghoulbane shoould have been a quest like the Heart of Fear quest, gave you an option of a one hander/two hander or gave you a weapon designed purely for your class. I don't know why Sony decided it wasn't going to do this but the example pointed out is right, where is the specific item that only Paladins use when Guardians (and Zerkers granted) have tower shields? <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>ooooOOOOoooo wouldn't that be cool that an en masse group of paladins can have a "Charge" type weapon (of course...a lance!!) that only paladins can use, that's a huge Paladin/Knight thing, a Heavy Cavalry charge! We used to have it, stupid thing was pierce though <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[lisasdarr]

<span><blockquote><hr>eyes007 wrote:  but the example pointed out is right, where is the specific item that only Paladins use when Guardians (and Zerkers granted) have tower shields? <div> </div> <hr></blockquote>This is a misnomer, at release no class got any specific items that only they could use, all classes got an allocation of item 'types' that they could use. Tower shield is an item type, as is sword, Ghoulbane is a type of sword so anyone who can use a sword can use Ghoulbane, anyone who can use tower shields can use all tower shields. So we were never being shortchanged on any items by not having any exclusive items, no-one had any exclusive items. We did have less choice of weapon and shield types than warriors, but that is called diversity and without it why bother having different sub-classes. It was seemingly a policy decision in the design of EQ2 to not have any class specific items, which is a legitimate decision to make, this game is different from EQ1, and thus the rules are different too. They are only now bringing into the game individual items that are limited to a specific class, so in the future it is quite possible that we will see Paladin only weapons and armour.</span><div></div>

[Knesh]

<div></div>Class diversity is the whole point. With class only items you create diversity. Which is what people want. Just because a warrior can not equip Ghoulbane does not mean he can't quest for it. He just can't use it... I agree any should be able to quest for "a weakened Ghoulbane" but if its restored its "A Ghoulbane" thats the weapon that should be Paladin only. You can't go and create anothe "Holy Ghoulbane" that just doesn't work. The Ghoulbane can be restored and thats what should be the paladin only weapon. The Ghoulbane was never a component of Soulfire. Yes you had to have one to complete the quest but it wasn't a component of soulfire. You just had to collect it to show your worthyness to show wield Soulfire. Ghoulbane and Soulfire are 2 different weapons and are not combined into 1 weapon. Just like Soulfire and Fiery Avenger are 2 different weapons. You had to turn Soulfire in to receive Fiery Avenger, and the same goes for Fiery Defender. Those weapons were all in EQ1.. Where are the story lines for those weapons? If Fiery Defender was better than Soulfire why on earth would Lucan try and steal Soulfire. Perhaps in later expansions the FD will be discovered. With that being said. I truly feel that more class specific gear like weapons or spells will bring indvidualism to the community and provide that "whoa" factor that EQ1 had. Maybe some day in EQ2's life this will happen, maybe it wont. But that is whats on my wish list <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Edited as the gripe is pretty much pointless :p <div></div><p>Message Edited by Knesh on <span class=date_text>07-11-2005</span> <span class=time_text>12:49 PM</span>

[Talz]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Knesh wrote:<BR>Well lore and actually playing EQ1.. The story line is this:<BR><BR>In EQ1 - we had to kill lucan d'lere for the sword of faith which is the blade of soulfire with a different hilt. When combined with the hilt of soulfire found in Mistmoore. It once again became Soulfire.<BR>Now after all that has happened Lucan is in possession of Soulfire. Lucan is a fallen paladin. Not an SK. SK's aren't paladins who feel the the other side. Sk's are based on the faith of necromancy and fighter. Because he was once a paladin but no longer walks the path he is still able to equip it. Lucan was once the leader of the Freeport Milita which it now appears he won and is now the Ruler of Freeport. At least, until the Gods return.<BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Being a paladin once upon a time had nothing to do with Lucan being able to use Soulfire.  When I did the quest it clearly said that paladins and shadowknights have both used the sword for good and evil.  Why it was paladin only is open for debate.  I'm in the Aradune made paladins too much of a pet project camp and yes I was a paladin.<BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I can't remember any step in Soulfire that you needed GB for.  You needed it for FA.  I'm not trying to nitpick your posts but you have the lore a little confused.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Talzar on <span class=date_text>07-12-2005</span> <span class=time_text>07:52 PM</span>

[Knesh]

<span><blockquote><hr>Talzar wrote:<div></div> <blockquote> <hr> Knesh wrote:Well lore and actually playing EQ1.. The story line is this:In EQ1 - we had to kill lucan d'lere for the sword of faith which is the blade of soulfire with a different hilt. When combined with the hilt of soulfire found in Mistmoore. It once again became Soulfire.Now after all that has happened Lucan is in possession of Soulfire. Lucan is a fallen paladin. Not an SK. SK's aren't paladins who feel the the other side. Sk's are based on the faith of necromancy and fighter. Because he was once a paladin but no longer walks the path he is still able to equip it. Lucan was once the leader of the Freeport Milita which it now appears he won and is now the Ruler of Freeport. At least, until the Gods return. <hr> </blockquote>Being a paladin once upon a time had nothing to do with Lucan being able to use Soulfire.  When I did the quest it clearly said that paladins and shadowknights have both used the sword for good and evil.  Why it was paladin only is open for debate.  I'm in the Aradune made paladins too much of a pet project camp and yes I was a paladin. <div> </div> <div>I can't remember any step in Soulfire that you needed GB for.  You needed it for FA.  I'm not trying to nitpick your posts but you have the lore a little confused.</div><p>Message Edited by Talzar on <span class="date_text">07-12-2005</span> <span class="time_text">07:52 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote>Yup you are right the ghoulbane was for FA- but you are wrong about Soulfire being used by both Sk's and Paladin being open for debate - what SK do you know of wielded soulfire? Lucan is not a shadowknight. He is a fallen paladin, EQ1 lore made that very clear. This why he had the Sword of Faith (he never returned it - hence stolen) He still has all the abilities a paladin has. Now that may have changed in EQ2 - Since the gods are silent, don't know - never met the guy. But Lucan is not a SK hence why he can weild Soulfire. If you can come up with specific information as to an SK who has ever used soulfire I will recant my statements. All the lore I read and seen was that the Soulfire was stolen, stolen again. And is now in the hands of Lucan. It never said it was stolen and used for evil both times. As a side note - just because you are evil doesn't mean you have to be an SK (I know your not implying that).</span><div></div>

[GilfalasElaandrin]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Knesh wrote:<BR>I agree with ya. But the Ghoulbane had the sole purpose of being involved in the Soulfire quest. So it was required to have<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Sorry but I think you probably mean the Fiery Avenger quest, not Soulfire. Ghoulbane is in no way needed for Soulfire in EQ 1.</P> <P>Ghoulbane IS however used in Fiery Avenger/Defender and the Shadwoknight Epic 1.0 from EQ Live.</P> <P></P> <HR> <DIV>um SkPhantasie.. the ghoulbane proc isnt only against undead.... <HR> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In EQ 2, the 'proc' on Ghoulbane ('Power of Ghoubane' effect to be exact) does indeed only land on undead (as the constant string of 'resisted' messages I get on mine on EVERYTHING ELSE IN GAME constnatly reminds me) and while the effect is only 15-18 points a swing, it is not a % chance to fire like other weapons, it fires every single swing no matter what, which means that it will add up rather quickly and is a pretty significat and constant damage boost on undead.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In EQ Live it was a true 'proc' effect. In EQ 2 it became far more similar to the 'Bane' damage effects prevalent in EQ Live.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Lastly as for why Lucan has Soulfire now in EQ 2, well it is rather simple: In this veriosn of Norrath, which is a variant timeline the has some serious divergence from EQ Live, Soulfire was never lost from it's original owner Pietro Zarn, the SK Guildmaster in Freeport (if my old memory is remember the original quest correctly). In EQ 1 Soulfire was taken from the SK and then 'cleansed' or 'dedicated' to good and thuse became Paladin only.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But in OUR Norrath that never happened. Instead it was retrieved at some point by the god Rallos Zek, or one of his minions, to be a weapon for the Avatar of War during the end days of the old world. When the Avatar of War, along with the Rallosian army, was defeated at Freeports gates after the second coming of the greenmist, Lucan grabbed it up and claimed it for his own. Since it had never been 'purified' as it was in EQ live, it was quite easy for his black heart and soul to wield it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Ghoulbane can also be explained similarly, since it's history in EQ2 has it as a Holy weapon, commonly wielded by Paladins but not ONLY.  It is more a weapon dedicated to destroying undead than to being a holy sword, similar to how Berik, Sword of Thunder is.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Lastly, In EQ Live Lucan is a WARRIOR guild master/trainer. The lore about him quite clearly stated that he was a street rat that was taken in and raised by the Church of Marr in Freeport and upon reaching the proper age was given to the Knights of Truth for training as a Paladin. He was seduced by the power he got when he was left in charge of the Order of Marr in Freeport when the majority of both the Knights of Truth and the Church of Marr left on the Crusade of Tears. When the survivors of the crusade returned to Freeport it was to a much changed man, who had padded the ranks of Freeports defenders with mercenaries and cutthroats in his 'Militia' and had turned to corruption and graft in his takover of the city while the Order was away. (He was initially only left in charge of the city defense, eventually forcing himself to city rulership).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In the end the final act that damned him was his murder of another Paladin in an argument. That was the last straw and Mithanial Marr strippped him of his Paladinhood. After that he started up his various affiliations and deals with the Bloodsabre Shadowknights and by extension the Necromancers Guild (through whom he started his path toward lichdom), the Freeport thieves guild and agents of the Dark Elves.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In EQ1 he is killed for his Knights Writ to complete the Soulfire quest and then by many extensions the Paladin epics all the way down the line. But in EQ2's Norrath, since Pietro Zarn loses soulfire not to a Paladin but to Rallos Zek, that never comes to pass, and as such, he is never killed my epic questing Paladins and survive long enough to become a true lich (something even Miragul was never able to do) and survives to this day as Overlord of Freeport.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>That help?</DIV><p>Message Edited by GilfalasElaandrin on <span class=date_text>07-13-2005</span> <span class=time_text>12:38 PM</span>

[Knesh]

<span><blockquote><hr>GilfalasElaandrin wrote:<div></div> <div></div> <div></div> <blockquote> <hr> Knesh wrote:I agree with ya. But the Ghoulbane had the sole purpose of being involved in the Soulfire quest. So it was required to have <hr> </blockquote> <p>Sorry but I think you probably mean the Fiery Avenger quest, not Soulfire. Ghoulbane is in no way needed for Soulfire in EQ 1.</p> <p>Ghoulbane IS however used in Fiery Avenger/Defender and the Shadwoknight Epic 1.0 from EQ Live.</p> <p></p> <hr> <div>um SkPhantasie.. the ghoulbane proc isnt only against undead.... <hr> </div> <div> </div> <div>In EQ 2, the 'proc' on Ghoulbane ('Power of Ghoubane' effect to be exact) does indeed only land on undead (as the constant string of 'resisted' messages I get on mine on EVERYTHING ELSE IN GAME constnatly reminds me) and while the effect is only 15-18 points a swing, it is not a % chance to fire like other weapons, it fires every single swing no matter what, which means that it will add up rather quickly and is a pretty significat and constant damage boost on undead.</div> <div> </div> <div>In EQ Live it was a true 'proc' effect. In EQ 2 it became far more similar to the 'Bane' damage effects prevalent in EQ Live.</div> <div> </div> <div>Lastly as for why Lucan has Soulfire now in EQ 2, well it is rather simple: In this veriosn of Norrath, which is a variant timeline the has some serious divergence from EQ Live, Soulfire was never lost from it's original owner Pietro Zarn, the SK Guildmaster in Freeport (if my old memory is remember the original quest correctly). In EQ 1 Soulfire was taken from the SK and then 'cleansed' or 'dedicated' to good and thuse became Paladin only.</div> <div> </div> <div>But in OUR Norrath that never happened. Instead it was retrieved at some point by the god Rallos Zek, or one of his minions, to be a weapon for the Avatar of War during the end days of the old world. When the Avatar of War, along with the Rallosian army, was defeated at Freeports gates after the second coming of the greenmist, Lucan grabbed it up and claimed it for his own. Since it had never been 'purified' as it was in EQ live, it was quite easy for his black heart and soul to wield it.</div> <div> </div> <div>Ghoulbane can also be explained similarly, since it's history in EQ2 has it as a Holy weapon, commonly wielded by Paladins but not ONLY.  It is more a weapon dedicated to destroying undead than to being a holy sword, similar to how Berik, Sword of Thunder is.</div> <div> </div> <div>Lastly, In EQ Live Lucan is a WARRIOR guild master/trainer. The lore about him quite clearly stated that he was a street rat that was taken in and raised by the Church of Marr in Freeport and upon reaching the proper age was given to the Knights of Truth for training as a Paladin. He was seduced by the power he got when he was left in charge of the Order of Marr in Freeport when the majority of both the Knights of Truth and the Church of Marr left on the Crusade of Tears. When the survivors of the crusade returned to Freeport it was to a much changed man, who had padded the ranks of Freeports defenders with mercenaries and cutthroats in his 'Militia' and had turned to corruption and graft in his takover of the city while the Order was away. (He was initially only left in charge of the city defense, eventually forcing himself to city rulership).</div> <div> </div> <div>In the end the final act that damned him was his murder of another Paladin in an argument. That was the last straw and Mithanial Marr strippped him of his Paladinhood. After that he started up his various affiliations and deals with the Bloodsabre Shadowknights and by extension the Necromancers Guild (through whom he started his path toward lichdom), the Freeport thieves guild and agents of the Dark Elves.</div> <div> </div> <div>In EQ1 he is killed for his Knights Writ to complete the Soulfire quest and then by many extensions the Paladin epics all the way down the line. But in EQ2's Norrath, since Pietro Zarn loses soulfire not to a Paladin but to Rallos Zek, that never comes to pass, and as such, he is never killed my epic questing Paladins and survive long enough to become a true lich (something even Miragul was never able to do) and survives to this day as Overlord of Freeport.</div> <div> </div> <div>That help?</div><p>Message Edited by GilfalasElaandrin on <span class="date_text">07-13-2005</span> <span class="time_text">12:38 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote>I read it.. But I am from what your stating EQ2 is set pre EQ1. Thats not true its set after all the events after EQ1 - 500 years later not earlier. Maybe i'm reading it wrong. So how could it have never happened if it happened in EQ1?  The story of lucan becoming leader of the freeport milita is true. In EQ1 Soulfire was destoryed we had to piece it back together. But I do remember reading something about Rallos Zek killing a person wielding soulfire and that is how he uncovered it. But before that it did say that it was stolen from a bandit camp, from people who did not know what it was. I think this was when Lucan D'lere finally obtained it now in EQ2. I will read up on the lore of Soulfire and post back later.</span><div></div>

[GilfalasElaandrin]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P></P> <HR> <P>Knesh wrote:<BR><SPAN>Maybe i'm reading it wrong. </SPAN><BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Yes you did. Please, beleive me when I say I am somewhat familiar with the various holy sword histories from EQ Live. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  I will not claim to be PERFECT mind you since I did that all from memory, but it should all be accurate.</P> <P>EQ Live does indeed happen 500 years before EQ 2 but it does NOT happen in the same time line. EQ 2 (as has been stated by the dev's) is an alternate/different future than EQ live is moving into. There are key things that have happened very differently betweent the two world settings.</P> <P>Think of it this way: EQ 1 is chugging along in time in a straight line. At some unknown point, the EQ 2 universe diverges off that straight line a bit to the right, still moving forward in time, but making a similar, but different future (and thus a different past).<BR></P>