Here is your thread jack/rant Culann Hearstone

[SunT]

<DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Culann Heartstone wrote:<BR><SPAN><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> SunTsu wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Tar~Palantir wrote:<BR> My first charcter was a paladin. I suffered through weak wards, useless buffs, taunts, and overall tanking uselessness, it was the horse that gave me an excuse.  When they nerfed my horse a week after i dinged paladin, I was [Removed for Content] and quit playing after awhile, even suffering through the heavy armour nerf.  Then i began my wizard and was cruising till i grouped with a warlock and realized with adept I's i would still be doing half the damage even if i burned mana like a match in gasoline.  I now have leveled  a Templar, finally, a non-borked class. THe melee dmg and spell dmg aren't earth-shattering, but they fulfill their cheif role of healing with great quality and efficiency.  A non borked class.  Of course, it will be royally fVcked soon enough.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Sorry for the thread Jack...but this is bull.</P> <P>Pally's are arguably the best performing class in the game.  They are not broken.  They tank awesome. They solo awesome.  They are NOT healers so if that is what you rolled him for the shame on you.</P> <P>Don't trash what you don't understand.  Most tank classes have Pally envy to some degree.</P> <P>And who in thier right mind would choose a class for it's fluff spell?</P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Palladins ARE broken.  Wake up.   Half our spells and combat arts do not function according to the descriptions listed, we have serious aggro retention issues, what we have been promised since game inception and now is still not there (initially Paladins could use more than just axes, hammers and swords - this included halberds, and spears, etc), and while we're at it how about looking at the predominant lack of what makes us a Paladin after all, which his healing...we have -1- single target heal and LoH which is laughable compared to what it was able to do in EQ1.  And while I realize this isn't EQ1, the heal and LoH are still completely ineffectual many times.  They simply do not replace enough to be viable.  Sure we have a 5 minute heal..but FFS..that's a FIVE MINUTE HEAL.  [Removed for Content] should I do at the 3 min mark if I used LoH and the 5 minute heal already?  Yet another fundamental botchjob essentially.<BR><BR>Take your own advice, and don't talk out of your [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] about what you don't understand.  PLAY the class, not snitch it off Ebay.<BR><BR><BR>-Culann Heartstone<BR>-47 Dwarven Paladin<BR>-Kithicor Server<BR></SPAN> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>My friend, you need to learn to play your class. </P> <P>Sure many things could be improved.  I could get a 500 per tick regen or a 300 per hit reactive.  That would be sweet.  I could also get a nuke for 1000.  But not having these things does not make me broken.</P> <P>I am a Tank, not a healer, not a nuker.</P> <P>I can solo any green ^^.  Some Blue ^^. </P> <P>I can solo Blue 3 and 4 mob heroic groups. </P> <P>I can solo Green Named.  I think I was 46 last time I solo'd the Firetoad.</P> <P>I can Tank for a group by using a taunt on my pull and one more round after that, then not taunt one more time and NEVER lose aggro.  Come with me some night and I will teach you how.</P> <P>I can pull better than any class.  Over 1000 damage and one taunt before it gets a hit on me.</P> <P>I can raid tank as long as I have additional power regen via Chanter, Conj or Wiz. </P> <P>I can buff Mit, STR, STA, AGI, WIS, and avoidance. </P> <P>I can heal and Ward myself and others. </P> <P>Do I think we should get Better and More taunts?  Yes. </P> <P>Do I think we should get to use all weapons?  Yes.</P> <DIV>Do I think we should get better heals?  Yes.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Do any of these things make us broken.  No way.  We are a great class. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>We are Sprinters when it comes to tanking.  We use a ton of power keeping aggro.  This is our biggest issue IMO.  It makes us THE BEST group tank in the game.  We are an acceptable alternative to raiding but Guards are far more efficient for the long fight and do a better job.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If you still think I am an Ebay, lol, query my posts in the Pally forum.  Who knows, you might just learn how to play a Pally effectively by reading them.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If you wish to continue your rant, why don't you start a string in the Pally Forum where it belongs instead of continuing this thread jack.</DIV></DIV>

[SunT]

<P>And I forgot to add our rez...which is likely the Best in the Game.</P> <P>And our AOE, that allow us to pull aggro from adds without changing targets.  Great spells is used with caution.</P>

[Caslav]

<pulls up a seat ringside and opens a bag of popcorn>

[FieryFurnace]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> SunTsu wrote:<BR> <DIV> <P>I can Tank for a group by using a taunt on my pull and one more round after that, then not taunt one more time and NEVER lose aggro.  Come with me some night and I will teach you how.</P> <P>__________________________________________________ ____________________________________________</P> <P> </P> <P>You must not have been to Return to Nek Castle, Sol Eye, or any epic encounters yet, your strategy will not work in these zones.<BR></P></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>

[SunT]

<P>No strat works the same for every possible scenario.  My point was to illustrate the absurdity of his comment.  </P> <P>In normal group settings, I only taunt on pull and hit it once more on refresh, then never lose it.  If I ever do, I will change my tactics.</P> <P>But it will still not mean we are broken or hopelessly [Removed for Content] as this person suggests.</P>

[SunT]

<P>Just helpin this dude out and bringin him here.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <DIV> <P>Well..let's see. </P> <P>I played a Paladin to 60 in EQ1, FROM day one of EQ1, and I've done quite well with my Paladin in EQ2.</P> <P>As a class, yes we ARE broken.  I cannot understand why you are so blind as to think the Paladin class is okay.  More than half of our abilities and combat arts DO NOT WORK.  Read the descriptions on what you have..some of our ranged attacks are supposed to buff STR; they don't.  Others are supposed to stun and do damage; they do the damage, but no stun.  And what does work is generally too weak for us to hold our own in comparison to the other plate wearing tank classes.  Do you hold aggro as easily as a Guardian?  Do you DPS as well as a Berserker?  Hell no you don't do either one, no matter what, cause the class you play is broke all to hell and back.  I don't expect us to take up the Guardian's role of course, nor the Berserker's, but it would sure as hell be nice if our aggro retention abilities didn't force us to burn up 4/5 of our power base at the very first of a fight..as I pointed out to someone else...that's great until a DPS class pulls aggro by accident, and you simply do not have enough power to get the aggro back, regardless of what you have available.  In short, you can't make a chocolate cake from sand and seawater.<BR></P> <P>As for soloing multi heroic groups, BS.  I don't see it happening bud.  Not unless you've found some loophole.  As for not losing aggro, sure if you're other teammates are Priest classes.  Again, our aggro abilities do not give us a firm 'lock' on aggro and it's entirely possible for a DPS class to take it away from us, without a whole lot of effort, actually.  Buffing Mitigation, STR, & etc is great..okay sure so you got Crusade..that doesn't mean a ton of your other combat arts aren't broken..you get one good buff and you think that qualifies as a point to stand on?  Pfft.  Our Wards are mostly pointless unless you're trying desperately to get aggro back, because at the level we are, 1 hit removes them.  No foot to stand on there either.</P> <P>Given the misconceptions you've already demonstrated so far, if this is your idea of 'effective', I don't want to know how to play my Paladin like you do.  Not only no, HELL no.  I have people to think about who depend on me. </P> <P><EM>Lastly, this is a prime example of why I'm NOT excited about SOE's upcoming changes</EM>..we have so much broken that's still broken or ineffectual, it's hard to see new changes fixing all the broken stuff without making alot of new things broken as well.  I just cannot see how SOE is going to pull this off, and I really do not relish the idea of being nerfed because Scouts are worried we are out DPSing them. </P> <P>SOE's track record is bad..very very bad.  Until that improves dramatically, then there's not a lot to surmount the belief that things won't be a cluster(bleep) when it's implemented.</P> <P>Message Edited by Culann Heartstone on <SPAN class=date_text><FONT color=#756b56>06-09-2005</FONT></SPAN><SPAN class=time_text>11:32 AM</SPAN></P> <P></P> <DIV>**<BR>Tank's code of honor:: First in, last out. Die for the healers safety, whatever personal cost. Keep aggro, all of it, strive for it, all times, all places in which it matters. Fight hard, die harder.<BR>**</DIV></DIV>

[missionarymarr]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> SunTsu wrote:<BR> <P>Just helpin this dude out and bringin him here.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <DIV> <P>Well..let's see. </P> <P>I played a Paladin to 60 in EQ1, FROM day one of EQ1, and I've done quite well with my Paladin in EQ2.</P> <P>As a class, yes we ARE broken.  I cannot understand why you are so blind as to think the Paladin class is okay.  More than half of our abilities and combat arts DO NOT WORK.  Read the descriptions on what you have..some of our ranged attacks are supposed to buff STR; they don't.  Others are supposed to stun and do damage; they do the damage, but no stun.  And what does work is generally too weak for us to hold our own in comparison to the other plate wearing tank classes.  Do you hold aggro as easily as a Guardian?  Do you DPS as well as a Berserker?  Hell no you don't do either one, no matter what, cause the class you play is broke all to hell and back.  I don't expect us to take up the Guardian's role of course, nor the Berserker's, but it would sure as hell be nice if our aggro retention abilities didn't force us to burn up 4/5 of our power base at the very first of a fight..as I pointed out to someone else...that's great until a DPS class pulls aggro by accident, and you simply do not have enough power to get the aggro back, regardless of what you have available.  In short, you can't make a chocolate cake from sand and seawater.<BR></P> <P>As for soloing multi heroic groups, BS.  I don't see it happening bud.  Not unless you've found some loophole.  As for not losing aggro, sure if you're other teammates are Priest classes.  Again, our aggro abilities do not give us a firm 'lock' on aggro and it's entirely possible for a DPS class to take it away from us, without a whole lot of effort, actually.  Buffing Mitigation, STR, & etc is great..okay sure so you got Crusade..that doesn't mean a ton of your other combat arts aren't broken..you get one good buff and you think that qualifies as a point to stand on?  Pfft.  Our Wards are mostly pointless unless you're trying desperately to get aggro back, because at the level we are, 1 hit removes them.  No foot to stand on there either.</P> <P>Given the misconceptions you've already demonstrated so far, if this is your idea of 'effective', I don't want to know how to play my Paladin like you do.  Not only no, HELL no.  I have people to think about who depend on me. </P> <P><EM>Lastly, this is a prime example of why I'm NOT excited about SOE's upcoming changes</EM>..we have so much broken that's still broken or ineffectual, it's hard to see new changes fixing all the broken stuff without making alot of new things broken as well.  I just cannot see how SOE is going to pull this off, and I really do not relish the idea of being nerfed because Scouts are worried we are out DPSing them. </P> <P>SOE's track record is bad..very very bad.  Until that improves dramatically, then there's not a lot to surmount the belief that things won't be a cluster(bleep) when it's implemented.</P> <P>Message Edited by Culann Heartstone on <SPAN class=date_text><FONT color=#756b56>06-09-2005</FONT></SPAN><SPAN class=time_text>11:32 AM</SPAN></P> <P></P> <DIV>**<BR>Tank's code of honor:: First in, last out. Die for the healers safety, whatever personal cost. Keep aggro, all of it, strive for it, all times, all places in which it matters. Fight hard, die harder.<BR>**</DIV></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>First off they aren't ranged abiltities that are supposed to add STR they are Melee attacks minor point agreed. Second from what I understand if you don't have your normal STR buff they actually do add str when they hit. Therefore this isn't a problem of the ability not working now but the fact that they don't stack which I think we need to get on the DEVS to change.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As for our stun abilities they to work the problem is the way Stun is handled in the game. As soon as a mob is hit after he is stunned he can attack again therefore since we will usually have auto attack on it appears they aren't being stunned. I hope that this will eventually be changed to make stuns more effective for every class that gets them.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As for soloing Multi group heroic. It is definately possible I have done it my self and it is not a loophole. First though they do have to be the lowest level green and either be just 2 mobs with one up arrow. Or four with no arrows and then it is quite possible Also when soloing them you should never use your best Taunt to finish your HO's but you should use the very first taunt you ever get saves power.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>True are Wards are useless that might change. as for Tanking and Aggro do you use any of our abilities that allow us to transfer some Aggro off another player when ever he gains it.</DIV>

[Platfing]

<P>I'm going to chime in here, even though it's not my argument.  Hopefully some support thrown toward one side will help end this bickering.</P> <P>Personally, I have played my paladin to level 47 and I am still happy with him.  I grouped with a 49 guardian the other night that had a hell of a time holding agro against the 47 ranger that I regularly group/duo with.  The guard must have lost agro 10 times that night.  The same thing happens to the 50 guard in my guild.  I very rarely lose agro to the ranger when we group.      </P> <P>Now, obviously how you play the class has quite a bit to do with things but if you play the class <STRONG><EM><U>correctly</U></EM></STRONG> then it's one hell of a powerhouse.  Obviously, some things are still broken or could be tweaked.  Our taunts should use less power and some buffs don't cast STR as promised.  For normal groups, nothing is really wrong with the class from what I have seen.  I can do everything a guard can do, and much much more.  I can't even begin to count the number of times I have saved a group from wiping by throwing a heal/loh/ward/res at the right time.  Let's see a guard do that!  Let's not even get into my buffs... very nice.  </P> <P>Are we the best MTs for raids?  No!  We could be if we didn't burn power like a nuclear bomb going off.  This used to bother me and I started quite a few threads in other forums regarding this inequality, but I have now taken the position of "give the guards something" since we are truely better and more useful in group situations.  We will usually have a raid spot if for nothing other than our res (I feel sorry for some other tank classes in this regard).</P> <P>Oh - and I have done many group heroics solo.  I thought almost every paladin has done that at some point.  I'm not saying that I can pick any green group of heroic mobs and kill them.  Some mobs are obviously harder than others and it must be the lowest level green in most cases.  </P> <P>Paladins are probably one of the least broken of all classes in EQ.  I play with a ranger every night... now talk about problems (not even going to go there).</P> <P>         </P> <P> </P>

[missionarymarr]

Well I tested out one our Abilities that is suppose to give str believe it was Divine Vengeance it is a Melee attack. Anyways if I didn't have my normal STR buff on that takes up a spot of con. Then when that attack landed it did add to my str otherwise it doesn't. Obvioulsy this is a stacking issue.

[Sav]

<span><blockquote><hr>SunTsu wrote:<div></div> <div> <blockquote> <hr> Culann Heartstone wrote:<span> <blockquote> <hr> SunTsu wrote: <blockquote> <hr> Tar~Palantir wrote: <div></div>My first charcter was a paladin. I suffered through weak wards, useless buffs, taunts, and overall tanking uselessness, it was the horse that gave me an excuse.  When they nerfed my horse a week after i dinged paladin, I was [Removed for Content] and quit playing after awhile, even suffering through the heavy armour nerf.  Then i began my wizard and was cruising till i grouped with a warlock and realized with adept I's i would still be doing half the damage even if i burned mana like a match in gasoline.  I now have leveled  a Templar, finally, a non-borked class. THe melee dmg and spell dmg aren't earth-shattering, but they fulfill their cheif role of healing with great quality and efficiency.  A non borked class.  Of course, it will be royally fVcked soon enough. <hr> </blockquote> <p>Sorry for the thread Jack...but this is bull.</p> <p>Pally's are arguably the best performing class in the game.  They are not broken.  They tank awesome. They solo awesome.  They are NOT healers so if that is what you rolled him for the shame on you.</p> <p>Don't trash what you don't understand.  Most tank classes have Pally envy to some degree.</p> <p>And who in thier right mind would choose a class for it's fluff spell?</p> <div></div> <hr> </blockquote>Palladins ARE broken.  Wake up.   Half our spells and combat arts do not function according to the descriptions listed, we have serious aggro retention issues, what we have been promised since game inception and now is still not there (initially Paladins could use more than just axes, hammers and swords - this included halberds, and spears, etc), and while we're at it how about looking at the predominant lack of what makes us a Paladin after all, which his healing...we have -1- single target heal and LoH which is laughable compared to what it was able to do in EQ1.  And while I realize this isn't EQ1, the heal and LoH are still completely ineffectual many times.  They simply do not replace enough to be viable.  Sure we have a 5 minute heal..but FFS..that's a FIVE MINUTE HEAL.  [Removed for Content] should I do at the 3 min mark if I used LoH and the 5 minute heal already?  Yet another fundamental botchjob essentially.Take your own advice, and don't talk out of your [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] about what you don't understand.  PLAY the class, not snitch it off Ebay.-Culann Heartstone-47 Dwarven Paladin-Kithicor Server</span> <div></div> <hr> </blockquote> <p>My friend, you need to learn to play your class. </p> <p>Sure many things could be improved.  I could get a 500 per tick regen or a 300 per hit reactive.  That would be sweet.  I could also get a nuke for 1000.  But not having these things does not make me broken.</p> <p>I am a Tank, not a healer, not a nuker.</p> <p>I can solo any green ^^.  Some Blue ^^. </p> <p>I can solo Blue 3 and 4 mob heroic groups. </p> <p>I can solo Green Named.  I think I was 46 last time I solo'd the Firetoad.</p> <p>I can Tank for a group by using a taunt on my pull and one more round after that, then not taunt one more time and NEVER lose aggro.  Come with me some night and I will teach you how.</p> <p>I can pull better than any class.  Over 1000 damage and one taunt before it gets a hit on me.</p> <p>I can raid tank as long as I have additional power regen via Chanter, Conj or Wiz. </p> <p>I can buff Mit, STR, STA, AGI, WIS, and avoidance. </p> <p>I can heal and Ward myself and others. </p> <p>Do I think we should get Better and More taunts?  Yes. </p> <p>Do I think we should get to use all weapons?  Yes.</p> <div>Do I think we should get better heals?  Yes.</div> <div> </div> <div>Do any of these things make us broken.  No way.  We are a great class. </div> <div> </div> <div>We are Sprinters when it comes to tanking.  We use a ton of power keeping aggro.  This is our biggest issue IMO.  It makes us THE BEST group tank in the game.  We are an acceptable alternative to raiding but Guards are far more efficient for the long fight and do a better job.</div> <div> </div> <div>If you still think I am an Ebay, lol, query my posts in the Pally forum.  Who knows, you might just learn how to play a Pally effectively by reading them.</div> <div> </div> <div>If you wish to continue your rant, why don't you start a string in the Pally Forum where it belongs instead of continuing this thread jack.</div></div><hr></blockquote>Culann is on my server and I've had occassion to talk to him before.  I agree with SunTsu.  A lot of paladins have given up and learned to roll over and play dead.  I personally am the Main Tank of my guild due primarily to my agro management abilities.  Agro management is not broken.  I had to take 16 people to Nagafen's Lair last night (without group invis) and I pulled 3 or 4 separate groups at a time.  I generally held agro without even taunting too much against people attacking all over the place.  The key is in how you attempt to hold agro. There is no reason to assume that paladins are gimped, broken, or otherwise different from what they should be.  Personally, I think Paladins may be the best all-purpose fighter class.</span><div></div>