Our Paladin Taunts...

[BadBoyMc2]

Hi all, im not trying to start off a flame war or compare us to guardians, im just checking which spells our best & a quick question about killing an epic mob the other day... We have our two main taunts, (taunt & shout and upgrades of course) now we have other ones which make us hold hate well, Divine inspiration & Faithful Zeal & Blinding Bash (these our at my tier). Now under blinding bash's description it says it does AE stun & crushing damage, doesnt mention the hate but on the details it says it cause some hate (cant remember exact number but seems good) now is this just a bug is it actually suppose to cause hate, also do guardians get a similar spell, such as a shield bash with hate? Our divine inspiration, gives us a 1% increased hate generation, now i hear a lot you should buff through battle to cause hate, now i never used to do this, but today i was in a small grp & we got aggro, i pressed Divine Inspiration by accident then i noticed that all the mobs on me, so this proved to be a useful taunt for me in the future, of course its not as good as smite prayer, but would other Paladins using divine inspiration during battle though it does use a lot of power. Faithful zeal is another spell which seems to be another spell which increases hate, but i dont tend to use this ward on myself i see im on orange health or someone elses due to its huge power cost, is this another spell worth using (even on green health) to gain more hate? Last of all, i was in group the other day in CoD, killing octagorgon & captain something or other (41 epic mob) think patch changed it though, now i was grouped with Guardian (41) & Paladin (41) now looking at both of their equipment they were equally matched (just using a full set of "pristine forged fulginate") also using the same weapons, they had exact same hp (well 4100, maybe 1 or 2 hithpoints out), the only difference was the guardian was using a tower shield & the paladin was using a kite shield, now last of all i looked out the mitagation & the paladin had 50 more or something, they then asked who should be MT, i said the guardian due to better taunts than us but the paladin kept on insisting to tank, in the end, the paladin was tanking...... and did just a good a job as im sure the guardian would of done. Now us Paladins our made out to be a supportive class, can i ask why the group & guardian let the paladin even though knowing we had worse hate holding spells? <div></div>

[Sav]

<span><blockquote><hr>BadBoyMc2k4 wrote:Hi all, im not trying to start off a flame war or compare us to guardians, im just checking which spells our best & a quick question about killing an epic mob the other day... We have our two main taunts, (taunt & shout and upgrades of course) now we have other ones which make us hold hate well, Divine inspiration & Faithful Zeal & Blinding Bash (these our at my tier). Now under blinding bash's description it says it does AE stun & crushing damage, doesnt mention the hate but on the details it says it cause some hate (cant remember exact number but seems good) now is this just a bug is it actually suppose to cause hate, also do guardians get a similar spell, such as a shield bash with hate? Our divine inspiration, gives us a 1% increased hate generation, now i hear a lot you should buff through battle to cause hate, now i never used to do this, but today i was in a small grp & we got aggro, i pressed Divine Inspiration by accident then i noticed that all the mobs on me, so this proved to be a useful taunt for me in the future, of course its not as good as smite prayer, but would other Paladins using divine inspiration during battle though it does use a lot of power. Faithful zeal is another spell which seems to be another spell which increases hate, but i dont tend to use this ward on myself i see im on orange health or someone elses due to its huge power cost, is this another spell worth using (even on green health) to gain more hate? Last of all, i was in group the other day in CoD, killing octagorgon & captain something or other (41 epic mob) think patch changed it though, now i was grouped with Guardian (41) & Paladin (41) now looking at both of their equipment they were equally matched (just using a full set of "pristine forged fulginate") also using the same weapons, they had exact same hp (well 4100, maybe 1 or 2 hithpoints out), the only difference was the guardian was using a tower shield & the paladin was using a kite shield, now last of all i looked out the mitagation & the paladin had 50 more or something, they then asked who should be MT, i said the guardian due to better taunts than us but the paladin kept on insisting to tank, in the end, the paladin was tanking...... and did just a good a job as im sure the guardian would of done. Now us Paladins our made out to be a supportive class, can i ask why the group & guardian let the paladin even though knowing we had worse hate holding spells? <div></div><hr></blockquote>Paladins actually have superior taunting abilities compared to guardians, if properly used.  Additionally, the Guardian has certain buffs which help with tanking, but virtually all of them are group buffs.  On the other hand, the paladin has additional self buffs which help somewhat.  That is why a lot of guilds have paladin main tanks.  However, not all paladins are created equal and some people either do not upgrade spells or do not experiment to figure out how to properly hold agro.  As a result, Guardians are typically better at taunting due to the simplicity of Guardian taunt (so many abilities with explicit hate generation components makes life easier than having to use abilities with implicit hate generation components).</span><div></div>

[Troodon]

<div></div><span><blockquote><hr>Savik wrote:<span>Paladins actually have superior taunting abilities compared to guardians, if properly used.  Additionally, the Guardian has certain buffs which help with tanking, but virtually all of them are group buffs.  On the other hand, the paladin has additional self buffs which help somewhat.  That is why a lot of guilds have paladin main tanks.  However, not all paladins are created equal and some people either do not upgrade spells or do not experiment to figure out how to properly hold agro.  As a result, Guardians are typically better at taunting due to the simplicity of Guardian taunt (so many abilities with explicit hate generation components makes life easier than having to use abilities with implicit hate generation components).</span><hr></blockquote> We do indeed have some abilities that Guardians would love to have too: Redemption, our heals, wards and buffs etc, though Im not sure if all but the first count as "Superior taunting abilities". Yes, they're a vital weapon in a Paladin's war to claw to the top of the Hate list, the problem is one of power effeciency, which means that in any challaging long combat we have a problem. Could you elaborate on your second point: "</span><span><span>additionally, the Guardian has certain buffs which help with tanking, but virtually all of them are group buffs.  On the other hand, the paladin has additional self buffs which help somewhat.  That is why a lot of guilds have paladin main tanks." as Im having a problem following it, surely the truism of the situation is that the Guardian is the de facto guild main tank, casting his buffs which effect everyone in the group himself included, while the Paladin is typically relegated to the role of squire, buffing the Guardian with the Pally single target buffs? At the risk of ticking off Guardian's I would concur with your last point, that Pally's require a lot more attention (and group tolleraance) due to having to rely upon non implicit hate generation, that its a lot easier to mess up tanking with a Pally than an Guardian. However rather than decrying any Pally whom encounters Hate management problems as a grey armour app1 using no0b, I think it might be worth considering whether there are failings in our implimentation that factor in as well? Edit: It may be the situation in your guild, as you're a guild leading Pally, that you get to tank. However I'm not really sure that Pally guild mt'ing is something seen quite so commonly elsewhere. </span></span><div></div><p>Message Edited by TroodonIE on <span class=date_text>05-22-2005</span> <span class=time_text>02:32 AM</span>

[Sav]

<span><blockquote><hr>TroodonIE wrote:<div></div><span><blockquote><hr>Savik wrote:<span>Paladins actually have superior taunting abilities compared to guardians, if properly used.  Additionally, the Guardian has certain buffs which help with tanking, but virtually all of them are group buffs.  On the other hand, the paladin has additional self buffs which help somewhat.  That is why a lot of guilds have paladin main tanks.  However, not all paladins are created equal and some people either do not upgrade spells or do not experiment to figure out how to properly hold agro.  As a result, Guardians are typically better at taunting due to the simplicity of Guardian taunt (so many abilities with explicit hate generation components makes life easier than having to use abilities with implicit hate generation components).</span><hr></blockquote> We do indeed have some abilities that Guardians would love to have too: Redemption, our heals, wards and buffs etc, though Im not sure if all but the first count as "Superior taunting abilities". Yes, they're a vital weapon in a Paladin's war to claw to the top of the Hate list, the problem is one of power effeciency, which means that in any challaging long combat we have a problem. Could you elaborate on your second point: "</span><span><span>additionally, the Guardian has certain buffs which help with tanking, but virtually all of them are group buffs.  On the other hand, the paladin has additional self buffs which help somewhat.  That is why a lot of guilds have paladin main tanks." as Im having a problem following it, surely the truism of the situation is that the Guardian is the de facto guild main tank, casting his buffs which effect everyone in the group himself included, while the Paladin is typically relegated to the role of squire, buffing the Guardian with the Pally single target buffs? At the risk of ticking off Guardian's I would concur with your last point, that Pally's require a lot more attention (and group tolleraance) due to having to rely upon non implicit hate generation, that its a lot easier to mess up tanking with a Pally than an Guardian. However rather than decrying any Pally whom encounters Hate management problems as a grey armour app1 using no0b, I think it might be worth considering whether there are failings in our implimentation that factor in as well? Edit: It may be the situation in your guild, as you're a guild leading Pally, that you get to tank. However I'm not really sure that Pally guild mt'ing is something seen quite so commonly elsewhere. </span></span><div></div><p>Message Edited by TroodonIE on <span class="date_text">05-22-2005</span> <span class="time_text">02:32 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote>Maybe the guardians who are currently in my guild or were in my guild at one point were just horrid at holding agro.  Every time our wizard would ice comet, agro would come right off the guardian(s) and he/they would not be able to regain it until the wizard died.  With me tanking, using Redemption and Call to Glory on the appropriate target (which is not the wizard, mind you), the wizard can ice comet with impunity and never get hit.  Paladin tanking is as much reliant on the paladin as it is both the target of Redemption and the group makeup for Call to Glory.</span><div></div>

[Bluepoi]

Ask your scout to let you end some buff HO, it helps alot in getting aggro. I'm a guardian eventho I upgraded all taunt to adept III, I'll lost aggro from time to time because those non-HO player burning their combat arts / spells like there is no tomorrow ( specially in raid ) Usually in an epic raid, I'll ask my team scout to let me complete 3 HO buff, generate some aggro base before landing my other taunt and that also give uber buff to my mig/avo stats. Hope this help (o^_^)b <div></div>