Paladin buffing (in raid)

[Dwergux]

Last night our guild tried our first (big) raid : The CL instance. When preparing the MT group there was a debate who should be in it. It turned out the MT had better HP, Migitation and Avoidence when.... The Berserker buffed him. (could that heve been because the zerker was level 50 and I was level 47?). But I find it alarming that a berserker can buff a MT better than a paladin can. The buffs I used on the MT were: - Kasine's Enlightened Piety (training ability) - Unwavering Faith (Adept 1) - Gift of Armament (Adept 1) - Prayer of Conviction (Appr. 4) <== I know it is of little use to the MT Am I forgetting some important buffs? <div></div>

[Titali]

<DIV>those are the ones i used, thats pretty messed up though. i dont know the first thing about what OTsituation buffs zerkers get but i always assumed ours were better. i wouldnt think they get any godly OT buffs in those last couple of levels but maybe. and is there any chance you had your buffs on the tank, then the zerker cast his before yours were cancelled? id probably ask him to send you a tell with the descriptions just to see, perhaps check zerker boards.</DIV>

[Norgoz]

You won't have to visit the Berserker forums, I bring the information to you. <span>:smileyvery-happy: We Berserkers get 2-3 stackable HP buffs that can add up to around 750ish more HP. We have a buff that increases avoidance, but I can't tell you which line it would overwrite </span><span>(Intervene line or Offering of Armament line)</span><span> atm because I don't get the chance to use it often to my group/raid's advantage. As far as a mitigation buff... we have none, afaik. If you're wondering, I'm in my mid-40s. As far as the mitigation jump goes, I think they must have been confused by someone else's buff. </span><div></div>

[Titali]

<DIV>thanks for the reply norg. unwaivering faith increases targets avoidance, so thats probably the one that doesnt stack. offering of armament line gives our mitigation to target, and you have to cancel it to get it to go away, doesnt expire. gotta be that or someone else's buff as far as mit goes then.</DIV>

[Daydeee]

<P>Odd don't you think that soe rates as one of the best buffing class'</P> <P>Marcellus Equites<BR>Lvl 50 Paladin Splitpaw<BR>"Damit gimmie a range slot item!"</P>

[Pin StNeedl]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Dwergux wrote:<BR>Last night our guild tried our first (big) raid : The CL instance.<BR><BR>When preparing the MT group there was a debate who should be in it. It turned out the MT had better HP, Migitation and Avoidence when....<BR><BR>The Berserker buffed him. (could that heve been because the zerker was level 50 and I was level 47?). But I find it alarming that a berserker can buff a MT better than a paladin can.<BR><BR>The buffs I used on the MT were:<BR><BR>- Kasine's Enlightened Piety (training ability)<BR>- Unwavering Faith (Adept 1)<BR>- Gift of Armament (Adept 1)<BR>- Prayer of Conviction (Appr. 4) <== I know it is of little use to the MT<BR><BR>Am I forgetting some important buffs?<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>50 Berserker. I don't know what (exactly) those Paladin buffs add, but....</P> <P>I have 4 stackable group +HP buffs, totalling ~1100hp. 1 of those is a Warrior buff (which the Guardian has), so I add ~900hp to the MT. (One is a training option).<BR>I have 1 permanent avoidance buff which does not alter the persona window so isn't clear how well it works (also grants a chance to proc berserk for the MT - short haste, +DPS buff). States ~35% avoidance though.<BR>I have 1 short-duration group mitigation buff (~40sec duration, 1 minute recast, also buffs strength and grants a chance for a ~300dmg proc and gives HUGE aggro on casting). Gives about 8% mitigation while active.</P> <P> </P> <P>edit: after reading the upgrade thread you have on this forum (very nice one too), I'll comment further...</P> <P>Basically, a Paladin's health buffing seems to come from +STA buffs. Once raid-buffed, adding more stamina has little effect (1sta is like 1-2hp). Because Berserker buffs are on raw health pool, they will add straight on top and be much superior.<BR>Avoidance buffing looks very similar with Paladins having the edge (small +AGI buff).<BR>Mitigation buffing looks to favour the Paladin as the Berserker's is short-duration.</P> <P>Hope that helps.</P><p>Message Edited by Pin StNeedles on <span class=date_text>05-16-2005</span> <span class=time_text>03:18 PM</span>

[Belgor]

<P>Unless you are going for purely mitigation, it is better to have a berserker in the MT group, since their buffs can give the same thing as ours, but they can add alot more hp.</P> <P>Our +sta buff (crusade or kasines) does not stack with a guardians self only +sta buff, so thats of little use. (and even if it did stack, stamina does not help very much if the MT already has like 400 stamina since there is a soft cap around 200ish)</P> <P>The only other thing we can add in the MT group that we can't also add from another group, is our wards, and those aint that good, 806 dmg reduced before mitigation. Unless we are the MT that is, then redemption is good for holding agro and so on...</P>

[RiotActer]

<P>If it's decided you are offtank, don't forget Redemption!  At Adept III it transfers 35% of hate to the pally.  Make sure you're in a group with a hate generator (Wizzy / Warlock - or someone that typically give a hate problem to a MT)  Throw redemption on them.  You will lessen the hate generators over all hate, making it easier for the MT to hold aggro.  And don't forget Intervene either.  IMHO evey Pally should have Redemption at a min of Adept I (32% of hate to pally)</P> <P>I typically leave the buffing (Stats) to classes that specialize in it.  Wardens, Templars, Mystics...  Even as an off-tank, you still have to pay attention to Hate.  You want to make sure the MT holds aggro.  By all means buff away with non-concentration spells...  Unwavering Faith is a nice buff.  Doesn't really show in the buffs stats in the player window, but I've been told it does make a difference.  Gift of Armorment is a so - so buff, but evey bit of mitigation helps the MT.</P> <P>One thing to keep in mind when forming the raid is what group to be in.  Some of our good buffs don't cross raid groups.  Display of Devotion is on of those.  Remember it not only wards, but also transfers hate.  This doesn't always have to be cast on the MT for the ward, it should also be cast on a hate generator.  And it can only be cast on someone in your group.</P> <P>Couse the buffs will all change when you are the MT <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P>

[Ansi]

<P>As far as Unwavering Faith and Gift of Armament go, I have not seen these work effectively on one tank. It has seemed to have a detrimental effect. Would like to know if anyone could confirm this. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>Secondly, when MT'ing a raid, the only class I have had rip off of me is our swashbuckler. We had one of our paladin's put redemption on him and the paladin died (then the swashbuckler <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> ) and it bounced back to me. I have found very little use for redemption to be honest. It is not worth putting a swashy in the MT group either due to the loss of HP and defense, so if I am MT, I can't put redemption on him.</P> <P>Kasine's (or crusade) after the next patch may well be useful for the wisdom buffs on dps casters since wisdom will play into the new combat system.</P> <P>I am still wondering if Gift of Armament stacks with Unwavering Faith, but as I said, it only seems to cause the tank to get hit (making me think that the armor boost overwrites Unwavering Faith).</P> <P>Message Edited by Ansiri on <SPAN class=date_text>05-17-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>10:28 AM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by Ansiri on <span class=date_text>05-18-2005</span> <span class=time_text>06:09 AM</span>

[Titali]

<DIV>they seem to stack ok to me</DIV>

[yzyh]

<P>as far as I know Zerker have +DPS and +aggro then paladin.</P> <P> </P> <P>And they also have betther buffs ?</P> <P>Why bringing paladin to raid exept for Rezz then ?</P>

[Ansi]

<DIV><SPAN class=time_text>Edit: Bleh, they stack as far as I can tell after testing it for about 6 hours straight. </SPAN></DIV><p>Message Edited by Ansiri on <span class=date_text>05-19-2005</span> <span class=time_text>08:01 AM</span>