You dont DPS!

[moorie27]

<DIV>You HEAL.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You dont DPS.</DIV>

[Seek]

<P>we do both...not very well, but we still do both :smileywink:</P> <P> </P> <P>Thats why we are between a guardian and monk</P>

[Troillus]

<DIV> <DIV>You HEAL.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You dont DPS.</DIV> <DIV>--------------------------------</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>you have an opinion </DIV> <DIV>not a fact</DIV> <DIV> </DIV></DIV>

[AlleySpa]

<DIV>I agree "YOU" heal.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And don't DPS.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I Dps just fine thnx <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[prisoner]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> moorie27 wrote: <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You dont DPS.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>I dont? <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My bad.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>17</DIV>

[Oakbr]

<DIV> <DIV><EM>You HEAL.</EM></DIV> <DIV><EM></EM> </DIV> <DIV><EM>You dont DPS.</EM></DIV> <DIV><EM></EM> </DIV> <DIV>Tell that the the mobs I hit with my axe...which procs fairly often, added to my nukes.  Granted, Farghus is  no warlock--but he's not supposed to be.  </DIV></DIV>

[Boli32]

Both our nukes and our heals are nothing to shout about -  we are the most man inefficient class out there - and we cant do either if we are interupted. <div></div>

[Roble]

<P>What class are you guys playing?.... because I doubt your playing a paladin right if you think you do not DPS.</P> <P>I am a 50 pally and I am one of the top 3 DPS in my guild on raids.  And I am in one of the top guilds with very well equipped people.  We were the guild to get many first kills on our server and to kill Thaen for the relic.  Some raids I may not be the top DPSer, but I average to be the top DPSer over the course of all the raids.  Here are the DPS stats for my guild.  I will point out the classes at the top.  All the info was taken over the course of different raids from Zek to CL to Ant and others.  The raids were full 24 people (all level 50) and about all classes were present and included in the parsing.  I will cut the list off after the top people. </P> <P> </P> <P><SPAN class=postbody><FONT size=2><SPAN></SPAN><STRONG>TEST 1</STRONG><BR>230.57   <------- PALADIN</FONT></SPAN><SPAN class=postbody><FONT size=2><BR>222.94    <-------- BERZERKER<BR>177.68      <-------- PALADIN<BR>144.65      <-------- MONK<BR>143.81      <-------- PALADIN<BR>140.34    <----- TROUBADOR<BR>...</FONT></SPAN></P><SPAN class=postbody><FONT size=2> <P><BR><SPAN>TEST 2</SPAN> <BR>239.77     <----- PALADIN<BR>202.81      <----- BERSERKER<BR>177.85      <----- PALADIN<BR>158.39      <----- TROUBADOR<BR>...</P> <P><BR><SPAN>TEST 3</SPAN><BR>197.46      <----- BERSERKER<BR>140.6      <----- TROUBADOR<BR>132      <----- PALADIN<BR>117.72      <----- TROUBADOR<BR>114.97      <----- TROUBADOR<BR>...</P> <P><BR><SPAN>TEST 4</SPAN><BR>176.1      <----- BERSERKER<BR>147.87      <----- TROUBADOR<BR>139.43      <----- RANGER<BR>137.97      <----- PALADIN<BR>135.52      <----- PALADIN<BR>134.28      <----- PALADIN<BR>134.13      <----- TROUBADOR<BR>123.89      <----- MONK<BR>...</P><SPAN></SPAN></FONT></SPAN> <P><SPAN class=postbody><FONT size=2><SPAN>TEST 5</SPAN><BR>176.53      <----- BERSERKER<BR>170.77      <----- PALADIN<BR>164.33      <----- GUARDIAN<BR>156.76      <-----     TROUBADOR<BR>145.35      <----- PALADIN<BR>134.48      <----- PALADIN<BR>131.06      <----- TROUBADOR<BR>129.84      <----- TROUBADOR<BR>...</FONT></SPAN></P><SPAN class=postbody><FONT size=2> <P><BR><SPAN>TEST 6</SPAN><BR>163.61      <----- MONK<BR>139.22      <----- BERSERKER<BR>136.81      <----- RANGER<BR>132.97      <----- PALADIN<BR>112.36      <----- GUARDIAN<BR>109.41      <----- RANGER<BR>108.23      <----- PALADIN<BR> 98.06      <----- GUARDIAN<BR>...</P> <P><BR><SPAN>TEST 7</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN></SPAN>145.52      <----- RANGER<BR>142.83      <----- PALADIN<BR>136.55      <----- RANGER<BR>126.59      <----- PALADIN<BR>114.5      <----- MONK<BR>104.9     <----- BERSERKER <BR>...</SPAN></P></FONT><p>Message Edited by RobleeS on <span class=date_text>05-01-2005</span> <span class=time_text>05:49 AM</span>

[TsunamiBombs]

yea, I have come to realize that people who say pallys suck at dps and tanking really just suck themselves......there is nothing wrong with pallys, they are just crappy players...........I own at tanking and dont compare to a mage or scout at dps but we still cn heal pretty nicely and buff........ <div></div>

[Nde]

We do heal, we do dps, just for raids we "shouldn't" tank because of our lower defense.  Other than that, our dps is fine, our heals are good too and each can be primarily used in different situations individually.  So... before you post something you don't have any idea about, please try to control your flambouyant little posts and stop offending palies who know what they're doing.  That's my request.  Thanks

[Avigat]

<DIV>See, and THAT is the beauty of playing a paladin.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If we need to tank, we can.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If we need to heal, we can.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If we need to DPS, we can.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If we had to stick with a single role, I'd play a different class.  But I guess thats just me, I like the variety <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>BTW, don't come in here and tell me (or us) what we can and cannot do.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thanks<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[redoule]

Next time I take down a named or x2 I'll remember I don't DPS! sheesh!

[uzhiel feathered serpe]

<DIV>The original poster is either uniformed, or is intentionally trying to start a flame thread.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>1st point- Paladins ARE NOT healers. Can we heal? of course we can HEAL,  but to say we are healers is sort of funny. We have 1 single target heal thats pretty decent, and it works in a pinch. I have been in grps where the healer died, and I kept the tank up with a quick Jess and a ward, then turned and rezzed the healer, then turned back and kept small healing till the healer got his senses back. We cannot keep this up, since its very costly in terms of power. Does that make me a healer? No, it makes me a Paly.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>2nd point- Paladins have FAR more DPS ability than healing ability. Granted at the lower lvls its power intensive, but at the +40 lvls our DPS is very good, bordering on excellent. We have 4 AE on different timers, and if you have an Opal I strongly suggest you upgrade your Doom Judgement. Its an EXCELLENT way to maintain aggro. Granted it costs alot of power, but hey! The damage it causes is superb and it actually ends up costing less in terms of taunts, time of fights, loss of aggro, etc. Does that make me DPS? No, again, we are Paladins.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In short, these threads end up being informative, because of the different palys who come and let those of you who are lower lvl or even those you at the higher lvls know about different techniques and tactics.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In the end, Paladins are the bridge between Healers and DPS</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And we like it that way. :smileyvery-happy:</DIV><p>Message Edited by uzhiel feathered serpent on <span class=date_text>05-02-2005</span> <span class=time_text>08:48 AM</span>

[GilfalasElaandrin]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> moorie27 wrote:<BR> <DIV>You HEAL.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You dont DPS.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I see you have never played a Paladin in EQ 2 or looked at the class.</P> <P>We have ONE targetable heal spell and ONE emergency heal usable once every 30 minutes.</P> <P>Ay any given level we have 9+ melee and direct damage arts.</P> <P>Given that collection of ratio's, combined with intelligent parsing, we most definately DPS.</P> <P>This is NOT EQ 1. We are NOT EQ 1 PALADINS. We are a NEW CLASS with NEW ABILITIES and a different focus.</P> <P>Deal with it.</P>

[Krugus]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> GilfalasElaandrin wrote:<BR><BR> <P>This is NOT EQ 1. We are NOT EQ 1 PALADINS. We are a NEW CLASS with NEW ABILITIES and a different focus.<BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Right on Gilfalas!</P> <P>Gah I would quit if we get molded into EQ1 Paladins.  I am not a cleric weilding a sword and I don't want to be.</P>

[Valian1]

<DIV>Right, Paladins are not good DPS, ONLY if they left themselves be bad. You can be a efficent DPS if you upgrade your particular weapon type you use. I always carry around my trusty 2-handed, then a sword & shield for tanking. Upgrade your sword/ 1-handed whenever possible if you want to be a good DPS while you tank.</DIV>

[MeridianR]

While I agree that we are decent DPS, a big reason Paladin's are thought of as being weaker then Guardians in terms of tanking ( in 6 person groups, which I believe we are better suited for then Guardians...not Raids, in which they are better suited) is because to many players try to DPS when they are MT'ing. A simple rule I try telling any people who ask for help is, make up a MT skill bar...and put no Damage spells that do not generate hate on it..... Granted this needs to be tweaked depending on the group you are in, but in a well balanced group (3 dps, 2 healers, and MT - or sub Utility for 1 dps, etc, etc, etc...) we should not have to be using (at L40+) Sworn Strike, Refusal of Grace, etc....doing the math at L44 both of those spells together take off 10% of my total power. So for (at best, without missing) 800-900 damage we are sacraficing 5 Taunts......in a large group, let the DPS, do the DPS...we should make sure we have aggro at all time...always taunt, always call to glory (or buff), always use a 1h/Shield, and always use our shield bash... Just my opinion, and yes we are weaker on the Raid scene then Guardians, but a lot of the Paladin hate from other people is because the players who are playing the Paladin...not the class...    <div></div>

[Oakbr]

<i> So for (at best, without missing) 800-900 damage we are sacraficing 5 Taunts......in a large group, let the DPS, do the DPS...we should make sure we have aggro at all time...always taunt, always call to glory (or buff), always use a 1h/Shield, and always use our shield bash... </i>Good point.  The trusty two-hander is not for tanking.  Sword & Board is the way to go.  I almost never use Oath Strike as MT.  I'm starting HO chain with Divine Vengeance or that other low mana ability whose name escapes me at the moment, and I like to finish the first HO myself, with Smite Prayer.  Also gonna hit a group buff asap, followed by shield bash, then something AE--maybe flatedge twirl, or a point blank damge/heal combo.  If I'm tanking, it's all about aggro, and let everybody else worry about killing things. If I've got an off-tank, or a good scout that can take a lick or two, I have been known to tell the group to assist him, not me.  Reason for this is I sometimes need to switch targets to keep aggro, and the designated main assist guy is free to target one mob until it dies, then go to the next.  Also good for one Big Mob with several little assistants.  I'll be on the big guy, while everybody else polishes off the crowd.  By the time they get to the big guy, he's locked on me and they can unload to burn him down.

[-Foobo]

<P>Great posts here on being a pally. </P> <P>IMHO, You have to get aggro, keep aggro and let the DPS and such happen with other people, while you hold aggro. If you can steer mobs for aggro, then you are making the mobs do what you want.</P> <P>Thats my take, so what if we are not always top DPS or top heals, we can cheese off mobs!</P> <P> </P>

[Karlen]

At level 29, I have found that I can heal OR tank OR dps.  Trying to do more than one of those as once usually leads me to doing none of them well. <div></div>

[Orthor]

<P>Just a quick response to some of the things said in this thread....</P> <P>Agro management is just as much the responsibility of each group member, as it is whomever is MT'ing. If casters and healers alike wait a few seconds into the engagement of a mob, anyone can keep agro. It's the better players that keep it well.</P> <P>A whole class cannot be defined by one persons actions. In other words, there can be folks that are just plain good at being whatever class they play, or there are those that suck.</P> <P>A good player, behind a well geared and spell updated pally, can do very well with this class. I've manged to res a fallen group member, while mt'ing and still manged to hold agro. I credit this to my groupmates as well as the skills given me by the designers.</P> <P>Orthor</P>

[Zaloorb]

Just look at RobleeS post. His figures are right. I outdamage my guildmates all of the time when dpsing. I have hit 160+ in PF at lvl 43 but usually average 110-120+. Not bad dps if I dont say so myself. But I did. Just a poster trying to start a flame war. /shrug <span>:smileyhappy:</span> Zaloorb Tundrasteppe 44th Season Paladin Initiate of Phoenix Legion, Oasis server <div></div>

[Reav]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Oakbrow wrote:<BR><I><BR></I>If I've got an off-tank, or a good scout that can take a lick or two, I have been known to tell the group to assist him, not me.  Reason for this is I sometimes need to switch targets to keep aggro, and the designated main assist guy is free to target one mob until it dies, then go to the next.  Also good for one Big Mob with several little assistants.  I'll be on the big guy, while everybody else polishes off the crowd.  By the time they get to the big guy, he's locked on me and they can unload to burn him down.<BR><BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Everyone should read this paragraph again and take note. It is very wise!</P> <DIV>BTW: What is a Shadowknight doing in the Paladin forum telling us what OUR characters are capable of? </DIV><p>Message Edited by Reaves on <span class=date_text>05-06-2005</span> <span class=time_text>04:09 PM</span>

[lover]

Interesting attempt of the OP to enhance his virtual *equipment* size by starting a flame thread.  Of course he/she forgot that the 1337 dudes probably don't play Paladin and has now been beaten down by intelligent posting. GG fellow Pallies I am sure they thought that was the *pwningest* forum post they ever made =D

[Seolta]

<DIV>You SQUEEL!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I don't care if you can DPS!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>20+ sore clam replies to an obvious joke/flamebait. Y'all ownz0r.</DIV>

[SanJ]

<P>I have found that my local group "make-up" determines my tanking/off-tanking style on a daily basis.</P> <P>What does that mean?</P> <P>If I'm in a group that can supply constant mana and I'm MT, I will continue to control HO advancement from the scout by kicking and taunting to either the healer or mage.  Likewise, I will taunt as much as possible, but I also throw in our high damage attacks while I'm waiting for the recast timers to tick away.  My primary goal is always holding aggro as MT so I sword and board and focus on that first, but I see nothing wrong with adding more damage to the equation if mana isn't an issue and aggro management is working well.</P> <P>If I'm in the OT role, I typically go two-handed, ward the MT and cast our call and prayer prior to the actual pull.  During combat I tend to control the HOs, throw in the occassional heal to help a single group healer keep the tank in the green or high yellow and then I focus on ... well button mashing for dps with first priority always to HOs (never use my kick or taunt so the cast is available as soon as a scout launches).  If the group has a single healer, I work out details early on that I will heal all group members that fall into the yellow so the healer can focus exclusively on the MT.  Likewise, should a group member fall, I tend to rez.  I try to keep my mana above 20 percent in the OT role in case of a rainy MOB day <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  I tend to parse out in the top 3 almost always on DPS when OT'ing.</P> <P>The point I'm trying to make is that Paladin's have to be adaptable to make the group as successful as it can possibly be.  I have kept a shield handy even OT'ing to finish up an HO the MT might miss.  I've healed myself even when MT'ing to stay alive or help the healer catch up.  I see a lot of Paladins that will NOT (die first) heal themself when MT'ing.  They claim it's the healers responsiblity to heal them even if mana is low or the situation is bleak.  I belive it's absurb to stand there and die if you have the capability to prevent death for yourself or another party member.</P> <P>As stated many times on these forums, Paladins are a wonderful robust class that can heal when needed, ward as required, main tank, off tank and even do some decent dps.  We can solo well, we can small group well and we can accomplish success on raids.  All classes have something to offer in EQ2, but the Paladin is like that high dollar Swiss Army Knife with all the features--we have the spoon, toothpick, saw, nail clippers and multiple blades (non piercing of course <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>Thanks,<BR>Kalen</P>

[Oakbr]

<div></div><i>I see a lot of Paladins that will NOT (die first) heal themself when MT'ing.  They claim it's the healers responsiblity to heal them even if mana is low or the situation is bleak.  I belive it's absurb to stand there and die if you have the capability to prevent death for yourself or another party member. </i>Ummmm...yikes?  A pally that dumb ought to get kicked out of the union.  I can't imagine dying...or allowing a group member to die..when I have the means to prevent it without endangering the group.  Healers can get fizzles, interupted, have a cat hop in therir laps, spill beer on the keyboard, whatever--If my HP are falling fast and it doesn't look like I'm getting a heal for whatever reason, I'll [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] sure heal myself--or someone else, if they are about to take the old dirt nap.  Don't they still teach that back in Pally School? <p>Message Edited by Oakbrow on <span class=date_text>05-06-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:16 AM</span>

[coochic]

<DIV>lol, I've said this in more that two threads. I duo a lot with a guardian. And I am his healer. Even when we have a healer, I give wards and heals when it needs to be done. BUT when i don't have to heal, or hold aggro. son, I put out dome heavy DPS, i'm a level 37 pally ok. I run my DPS meter everytime i play. And I WILL and have out DPS'd any other class other that a wizzy. They are just too [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] bad. lol. But, point is, If all i'm doing is healing and warding, i can save a life. And if all i'm doing is hammering out damnage, i'm kicking some major Crabs baby. If I couldn't be a Paladin i'd just not play the game.</DIV>

[Dgtlma]

Eh the ignorant poster who started all this ramblin is gone now, Trollius. AS u can see as soon as stats were posted he ran cause he had no real solid backing on the matter -.- So sad. <div></div>

[Troillus]

<DIV>He probably went to post another baseless post on another forum, Maybe "Mystics don't heal, you ward" post *shrug*</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>When it comes down to it a paladin is a great asset to a group. Hell Tank, Offtank , Secondary Healer, DPS dealer. We can fill all those roles and also not being dependant on other classes to solo, That's what i love about paladins the variety of choices you have at your disposal. Sure we don't excel like the purebreeds of those support classes or damage dealers. However we're an amalgam of many and there lies in our advantage.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Theramor-GoV]

<P>I enjoy my Pally.</P> <P>I can heal in a pinch, and have saved many a group member with a quick ward and heal.</P> <P>I can do DPS and do my fair share to any mob or can even solo very effectively.</P> <P>I can MT since I wear Heavy Armour and keep my gear and skills up and understand aggro management.</P> <P>I can Off Tank since I can hold aggro well, do enough DPS to take down the adds/smaller mobs, and keep myself alive via wards and heals so the main healer can concentrate on the MT.</P> <P>Like another poster said.....its like the Swiss Army Knife of classes.  Can do what is needed either soloing or in a group and do it well.</P> <P> </P> <P>T</P>

[Roble]

<img src="http://eq2images.station.sony.com/000/000/691/055.jpg"> Speaks for itself.... Valur, mazzoff, Akan, and Ohktar are paladins.

[Russ2006]

<DIV>Worth mentioning that them SD pally's are all [Removed for Content] out. Valur wears more bling than most others on Najena, granted I don't know what adept's/masters he got. But he got top of the line gear and is known to be an excellent player, so I wouldn't expect to beat his DPS. =P</DIV>