Shield/Parry nerf incomming!

[Jindris]

<DIV>Read the test server notes. I cant believe they are actually going to nerf shield and parry skills. All this endless nerfing is driving me nuts.</DIV>

[prisoner]

<P>Its just on test yet,  and is at least a whole live update away,  meaning it wont be a part of the next one.  They've got alot of tweaking to do still so I wouldn't worry quite yet.  No need to get the torches and pitchforks for a while <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </P> <P>17</P>

[Arleonenis]

don`t worry so much now, everquest 2 devs arent even half that nerf loving as eve developers (this was the reason i stoped playing later of this games and im here now<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> if they will start loving nerfs to much... dont worrys lots of new games will be out later: dark and ligh, vanguard for example... heh when devs will realise that nerfs arent way to go... if its stronger than other stuff, improve other issues not broke this one... if mobs will go down to fast than improve mobs... not nerf but improve... but i think they will never learn... nerfs angry peoples mostly becouse they liked it that way it was working, if its broken now it makes people more angry than increasing for example difficulty of mobs.... but nerfing is so easy... sorry for bad english gramma, im not to good in foreign languages <div></div>

[Neko]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Jindrisek wrote:<BR> <DIV>Read the test server notes. I cant believe they are actually going to nerf shield and parry skills. All this endless nerfing is driving me nuts.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Isn't that just for the Caster Classes (remvoe those skills from Mages, etc, not fighters).   I believe its all about their re-scaling of Melee combat to widen the melee gap between Fighter -----Scout ---- Priest ---- Mages.</P> <p>Message Edited by Neko on <span class=date_text>04-18-2005</span> <span class=time_text>08:17 AM</span>

[Neko]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> We are now beginning to test significant changes to the combat system.<STRONG> Our primary goal is to eliminate cases where some characters could make themselves virtually immune to attack through buff stacking. We also want to better delineate the tanking ability of the four archetypes: fighters should tank significantly better than scouts, scouts should tank better than priests, and priests should tank better than mages</STRONG>. In addition, we are smoothing out player and NPC progression so there are no longer sudden increases in difficulty around the class and subclass levels. Overall, the con color of your opponent should be a lot more meaningful and will better indicate the level of challenge you're about to undertake. <P></P> <P> </P> <P>Our intent is that the game feels and plays basically the way it always has for soloers and small group players. Groups and raid forces taking on powerful targets should find a greater level of challenge.</P> <P> </P> <P>These changes will be undergoing extensive evaluation and tweaking on Test server. Please understand that we will not release these changes to the live servers until we are confident that they have the desired effect, so they <STRONG>will not</STRONG> go to the live servers with Live Update #7. We appreciate hearing your feedback on the official forums.</P> <P> </P> <P><STRONG>Avoidance</STRONG></P> <P>- Your likelihood of avoiding an attack is now based on two primary factors:</P> <P><SPAN>  </SPAN>- The con color of the attacker.</P> <P><SPAN>  </SPAN>- The type of armor you are wearing. The heavier your armor, the lower your chances of avoiding an attack.</P> <P>- Increasing your Defense skill gives you a better chance of avoiding attacks, but there is now a cap on how much it can be buffed or debuffed.</P> <P>- Increasing your Agility improves your base chance of avoiding an attack, but it will not improve your likelihood of parrying, deflecting, or blocking with a shield.</P> <P>- There is now a cap on the effectiveness of Deflection buffs and debuffs.</P> <P>- <STRONG>Mages and Priests no longer receive the Parry skill. It temporarily still shows in the Skills window, but these archetypes will no longer have any chance to parry.</STRONG></P> <P>- There is no longer any way to buff the Parry skill over your current skill cap, and there is a limit on how far it can be debuffed.</P> <P>- Shields now have the following base chances to Block: Tower (20%), Kite (19%), Round (5%), Buckler (3%). Your chances to Block scale up or down based on the con of your opponent. Shield buffs no longer have any effect.</P> <P> </P> <P><STRONG>Mitigation</STRONG></P> <P>- The base mitigation values of armor have been adjusted as follows: Heavy (35%), Medium (25%), Light (20%), Very Light (10%).</P> <P>- Mitigation values scale up or down based on the con color of your attacker.</P> <P>- There is now a cap on how much mitigation can be buffed or debuffed.</P> <P> </P> <P><STRONG>Damage</STRONG></P> <P>- Melee damage bonuses are now calculated based on the attacker's strength versus the defender's agility.</P> <P>- The damage output of both players and NPCs should now increase more smoothly rather than receiving a sharp boost at levels 10 and 20.</P> <P>===========================<BR>Moorgard<BR>EverQuest II Community Guy</P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=tup&message.id=45#M45" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=tup&message.id=45#M45</A></DIV><p>Message Edited by Neko on <span class=date_text>04-18-2005</span> <span class=time_text>08:23 AM</span>

[Coho1]

"- Increasing your Agility improves your base chance of avoiding an attack, but it will not improve your likelihood of parrying, deflecting, or blocking with a shield."  I hope they leave that out.

[Jindris]

<DIV><STRONG>- Shields now have the following base chances to Block: Tower (20%), Kite (19%), Round (5%), Buckler (3%). Your chances to Block scale up or down based on the con of your opponent. <FONT color=#ff0000>Shield buffs no longer have any effect</FONT>.</STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV>The Aegis of Hope ability and similar abilities, wich blocks and parrys attacks for another group member, and also raises your block and parry skills a bit, will be useless once this update comes. And any other abilities that raise block/parry will be as well.</DIV>

[Jindris]

<P>Knowing that there is nothing I can do to increase the ability of my paladin to block and parry, will completely dissapoint me and make me no longer have any interest in this game.</P>

[eyes007]

<P>Oh my flaming God!!!</P> <P>Talk about using a mallet to kill a fly!</P> <P><STRONG>Shields now have the following base chances to Block: Tower (20%), Kite (19%), Round (5%), Buckler (3%). Your chances to Block scale up or down based on the con of your opponent. <FONT color=#ff0000>Shield buffs no longer have any effect</FONT></STRONG></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff>Where exactly are these ubertanks running around that are nigh-invincible! I have not seen one nor have I heard such a ridiculous rumour of BS, if anything, they've reduced our damage output and therefore we run out of mana and die that much sooner. I'm not complaining about our effectiveness (cos thats a wholllllllleeee nother story) but how does that balance the fact that our defense is already crappy. I mean we can't really avoid squat because being "tanks" we traditionally wear Heavy Armor and therefore Avoidance gets lower, our mitigation will remain the same (for now) but the worse thing is the Shield which we rely on for that extra 500AC (at level 35) plus the Shield buff now has a reduced mitigation based on the nerf. Where does that leave us? I started using an imbued two-hander yesterday for tanking and that just means I'll never pick up Ghoulbane, Moonlight Mace and my Shield again <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Way to go Sony! That just fits in line with a useless taunt, crazy damage output that casters do and in the end, a faster way for the group to die.</FONT></P> <P>Someone ppllllleeeeasssse prove me wrong!</P> <P>This sounds ridiculously way too unreal!</P> <P><FONT color=#ff0000></FONT> </P>

[missionarymarr]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Arleonenis wrote:<BR>don`t worry so much now, everquest 2 devs arent even half that nerf loving as eve developers (this was the reason i stoped playing later of this games and im here now<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR><BR>if they will start loving nerfs to much... dont worrys lots of new games will be out later: dark and ligh, vanguard for example...<BR><BR>heh when devs will realise that nerfs arent way to go... if its stronger than other stuff, improve other issues not broke this one... if mobs will go down to fast than improve mobs... not nerf but improve... but i think they will never learn... nerfs angry peoples mostly becouse they liked it that way it was working, if its broken now it makes people more angry than increasing for example difficulty of mobs.... but nerfing is so easy...<BR><BR>sorry for bad english gramma, im not to good in foreign languages<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>I don't like Nerfs much either. It annoys me though when people say DEVS should never Nerf anything but improve. The truth is that no matter what you think if a single power or spell or such is to powerful then the answer is to nerf that power. Doing anything else is to risky and lots more work. You have to realize that in the end trying to raise everything else to compensate will just cause more bugs and problems then nerfing the thing that is to powerful.</DIV>

[Jindris]

<P>What SOE did and is continuing to do with EQ2 is to take every single thing out of an MMORPG that has made them fun and worth while to begin with.</P> <P>SOE needs to stop trying to balance their already SICKLY balanced game. The more class balances they do, the more and more bland and boring EQ2 gets.</P> <P>Please SOE take this suggestion. Dont completely tear shield and parry buffs away from fighters. Make them so they have no effect on mages priests and scouts... but dear god dont stop us fighters from being able to buff up our own avoidance skills.</P> <P>Think back to what made MMORPG's fun... i feel this game is being taken into the wrong direction.</P> <P>I miss the old days where in an MMORPG, there were certain combinations of classes that together would work outstandingly well... In EQ2 I have not felt that yet. It doesn't matter wich fighter class is tankin, wich priest class is healing, mage class is dealing damage....... its all the same....... its like looking at a pile of dog crap and trying to figure out what the dog had eaten. Sorry I had to say it that way but thats the best way to describe it.</P>

[MeridianR]

<span><blockquote><hr>Jindrisek wrote:<p>What SOE did and is continuing to do with EQ2 is to take every single thing out of an MMORPG that has made them fun and worth while to begin with.</p> <p>SOE needs to stop trying to balance their already SICKLY balanced game. The more class balances they do, the more and more bland and boring EQ2 gets.</p> <p>Please SOE take this suggestion. Dont completely tear shield and parry buffs away from fighters. Make them so they have no effect on mages priests and scouts... but dear god dont stop us fighters from being able to buff up our own avoidance skills.</p> <p>Think back to what made MMORPG's fun... i feel this game is being taken into the wrong direction.</p> <p>I miss the old days where in an MMORPG, there were certain combinations of classes that together would work outstandingly well... In EQ2 I have not felt that yet. It doesn't matter wich fighter class is tankin, wich priest class is healing, mage class is dealing damage....... its all the same....... its like looking at a pile of dog crap and trying to figure out what the dog had eaten. Sorry I had to say it that way but thats the best way to describe it.</p><hr></blockquote>Pretty much it just sounds like you like to whine a lot.... If you are not happy with the way SOE is dealing with the game, then cancel your sub and go play another game...don't come here and post whine after whine after whine, about stuff that you have not tested, and have no clue if it will go into the game or not. Have you logged into Test and seen first hand how this is going to work? (Parsed damage taken, given out, etc) BTW - It does matter which class is involved for many things in this game....for one I would never group with a Mystic as a primary healer, since there wards get broken way to easily.  Also for a full raid, I would never not have a Guardian be MT..in smaller groups Paladins' get along fine.  I could go on and on, but it just seems you have no basis whatsoever about what you post. Also SOE is looking for feedback on the changes to combat, so if you are so scared they are going to mess something up then go to the Test server and test out the changes, give feedback, submit bugs etc......don't just come to the boards without proof and whine.... Just my 2 cents...</span><div></div>

[Jindris]

<DIV>I'm going to apologize for complaining. I know no-one likes complainers. But the fact is that <FONT color=#ff0000>several paladin abilities are broken</FONT>. And its upsetting to see things being stripped away instead of seeing my class getting fixed. I am definately NOT whining, so stop your personal attacks Meridian. I believe the 15 bucks a month, not to mention the $600 I have spent on PC upgrades, gives me the right to speak my mind. If you don't like what I have to say, just do us both a favor and add me to your ignore list. Thanks.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000 size=2>The nuke + strenght buff spell (shatter will etc) and the ward + strenght buff (display of devotion etc) do not give the strenght buff and nuke the paladin instead. The AOE attack + group heal abilities (divine wrath etc) do not give a group heal. These things have never worked as indicated in the spells discriptions. Also kite shields recently do not give mitigation as they should, and currently do for other classes.</FONT></DIV>

[Jindris]

<DIV>double reply</DIV><p>Message Edited by Jindrisek on <span class=date_text>04-23-2005</span> <span class=time_text>12:51 AM</span>

[Boli32]

and it all changes again (test server notes - NOT LIVE) <blockquote> <div><strong><font color="#ffcc00">*** Combat Testing ***</font></strong></div> <div> </div> <div>Note: The changes below represent a revision to the combat changes currently on Test server. <strong>These will *not* be moving to the live servers with the next update.</strong> Please continue to see these as part of a work in progress.</div> <div> </div> - Fighting blue con and lower encounters should feel more like combat on the live servers. - Fighting yellow and higher cons should be as challenging or a bit more so than with the first version of combat changes. - Armor quality (Handcrafted, Fabled, Legendary, etc.) is more meaningful than it was before. <font color="#ffffff">- <font color="#cccc00">The Parry skill can once again be buffed.</font></font> - Buff caps now scale more appropriately as the character increases in level. - Agility buffs now have a more meaningful effect. - Strength buffs now have a more significant impact on damage output. - <font color="#cccc00">Kite shields now block with the same effectiveness as tower shields.</font> </blockquote> Shield buffs never did too much anyway - they just made the shields we had more effective if they were yellow or higher coned and we were close to the boundery. i.e. you'll get the shield increase in AC at lvl 32 instead of at lvl 34. I agree our shield buffs are not much use - but then Aegis of Hope also buffs an ally with mitigation and Knight's stance increases our defence so not all lost. Saying that.... we've gained 1% effectiviness anyway so they are sjust making our shield buffs redundant. I bet those guardians are screaming nerf now. <div></div>

[Xlap]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Jindrisek wrote:<BR> <DIV>I'm going to apologize for complaining. I know no-one likes complainers. But the fact is that <FONT color=#ff0000>several paladin abilities are broken</FONT>. And its upsetting to see things being stripped away instead of seeing my class getting fixed. I am definately NOT whining, so stop your personal attacks Meridian. I believe the 15 bucks a month, not to mention the $600 I have spent on PC upgrades, gives me the right to speak my mind. If you don't like what I have to say, just do us both a favor and add me to your ignore list. Thanks.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000 size=2>The nuke + strenght buff spell (shatter will etc) and the ward + strenght buff (display of devotion etc) do not give the strenght buff and nuke the paladin instead. <FONT color=#ffff00>The AOE attack + group heal abilities (divine wrath etc) do not give a group heal.</FONT> These things have never worked as indicated in the spells discriptions. Also kite shields recently do not give mitigation as they should, and currently do for other classes.</FONT></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>my divine wrath gives a heal....<BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>just wanted to specify that ive seen it heal me and my group</DIV><p>Message Edited by Xlapus on <span class=date_text>04-25-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:30 AM</span>

[prisoner]

<div></div><span><blockquote><hr>Xlapus wrote:<div></div> <blockquote> <hr> Jindrisek wrote: <div>I'm going to apologize for complaining. I know no-one likes complainers. But the fact is that <font color="#ff0000">several paladin abilities are broken</font>. And its upsetting to see things being stripped away instead of seeing my class getting fixed. I am definately NOT whining, so stop your personal attacks Meridian. I believe the 15 bucks a month, not to mention the $600 I have spent on PC upgrades, gives me the right to speak my mind. If you don't like what I have to say, just do us both a favor and add me to your ignore list. Thanks.</div> <div> </div> <div><font color="#ff0000" size="2">The nuke + strenght buff spell (shatter will etc) and the ward + strenght buff (display of devotion etc) do not give the strenght buff and nuke the paladin instead. <font color="#ffff00">The AOE attack + group heal abilities (divine wrath etc) do not give a group heal.</font> These things have never worked as indicated in the spells discriptions. Also kite shields recently do not give mitigation as they should, and currently do for other classes.</font></div> <hr> </blockquote>my divine wrath gives a heal.... <div> </div> <div>just wanted to specify that ive seen it heal me and my group</div><p>Message Edited by Xlapus on <span class="date_text">04-25-2005</span> <span class="time_text">10:30 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote>That was in a recent patch and apparently its fixed.  Nice to know but I'm sure alot of paladins have taken it off their hotkeys and/or dont use it that often,  so they are probably unaware that its now working.  Good deal though,  thats one to scratch off the list at least. 17</span><div></div>