The Blue-Collar Paladin

[BlackW]

<DIV>I have noticed a disturbing trend among my brother and sister high-level Paladins. They all seem to think they need rare (legendary) armor and weapons to survive.  I am a blue-collar warrior.  I have never owned any rare armor.  I doubt I will ever own any rare armor.  It is too expensive for too little additonal benefit.  pristine forged fulginate vangaurd (carbonite or feyiron) is very good armor and 1/20 the cost.  For a few extra gold you can have your curiass and greaves imbued.  Armorers are happy to sell you normal pristine armor.  You can go directly to an armorer and make a deal for a full set of pristine normal vangaurd armor for whatever tier you are playing at for a fraction of the cost of rare armor.  You can get a full set of pristine forged fulginate vangaurd armor for about 30g.  A full set of prstine forged ebon vangaurd plate is 20-30pp.  If you are wearing a full suit of pristine Ebon armor you are either in an extremely wealthy guild, have very generous friends, are an uber-successful artisan, very lucky at finding rares or you are feeding real life coin to botters.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If you are going to invest in a rare item, invest in a rare kite shield.  You will get much greater defensive benefit for much less coin than rare armor.  If you are going to buy a rare weapon, get a rare long sword.  Pristine normal material greatswords do plenty of damage, a rare is just a status symbol and a waste of coin.  Invest your coin in skill upgrades, not rare armor.  Skill upgrades will provide much greater benefit for less coin than rare armor.   You do not need a full set of rare elite items to be an elite player.  You can be a working-class Paladin and still be a great Paladin.  Playing well in normal armor is a greater challenge and shows greater skill those who turn to the next tier and instantly show up wearing a full set of brand-new elite rare (legendary) items.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[RSZ]

<P>To each his own... </P> <P> </P> <P>I could probably enjoy making an alt-that-gets-by-on-the-cheap, I don't fathom going this way on my main.</P> <p>Message Edited by RSZ on <span class=date_text>04-11-2005</span> <span class=time_text>07:01 PM</span>

[BlackW]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> RSZ wrote:<BR> <P>To each his own... </P> <P> </P> <P>I could probably enjoy making an alt-that-gets-by-on-the-cheap, I don't fathom going this way on my main.</P> <P>Message Edited by RSZ on <SPAN class=date_text>04-11-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>07:01 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Perhaps you can elighten us then.  Where are you going to legitimately get 20-30pp to pay for a full suit of pristine forged ebon vangaurd armor or a full set of ebon weapons?  If I were to make 20gp per day crafting or adventuring for the next 100 days, I would still probably not have enough.

[prisoner]

<P>I agree for the most part.  I've been in groups with that 'uber' guardian or paladin where they had the good stuff,  and when something comes up where I have to tank,  I do it just as well as they do with my common pristine crafted gear.  Don't get me wrong,  if I ever do have the money to blow,  I'll probably get a nice piece of gear or two,  I mean what else am I going to spend it on?  However,  most need to know that we are just as effective in player crafted common gear.  We should always strive to be our best of course,  just realize that unless you are the main tank for an active raiding guild on the high end,  common gear will get you alot of mileage.  My feyiron will last me until 40 easily,  and beyond if needed,  and the fulginate I'll buy will last til 50.  </P> <P>Strive for the best you can get but don't be discouraged if the best you can get is the common stuff,  it works just fine <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </P> <P>17</P>

[Vulkan_NTooki]

<P>Unless you solo alot.</P>

[Igst]

<DIV>I also agree with your sentiment for the most part, however, you make a few assumptions which are a bit wrong.  By the way, I'm about the poorest guild member of our guild, however, I have an imbued ebon breast plate.</DIV> <DIV>1) Dont assume that everyone has bought a full set at full retail price.  If you get an ebon or rare drop from killing a boss mob of from a master chest, you can then take this to a level 50 armourer and perhaps also the luminous essence and negotiate a price on them doing a combine.  This way, you can get an imbued breast plate for varying amounts but definitely cheaper than the full retail price - I have never had more than a plat in my eq lifetime.  (Well maybe once or twice)</DIV> <DIV>2) The stats on the ebon stuff is much better than the fulginate stuff.  You are right that this doesnt really matter so much for normal mobs and no groups should refuse entry to anyone because of the quality of their armour, especially if grouping around the stock zones.</DIV> <DIV>3) I havent done too many raids, but I understand that when it comes to raiding, the resistances and stats on your armour becomes a much bigger factor that it is versus normal mobs.  Therefore, the level of your equipment does come into play more and more as you start facing the much tougher raid mobs.  Selection of which role gets played in a raid will depend to some extent on the quality of your gear.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Happy hunting!</DIV>

[Darki]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>BlackWeb  Wrote:Perhaps you can elighten us then.  Where are you going to legitimately get 20-30pp to pay for a full suit of pristine forged ebon vangaurd armor or a full set of ebon weapons?  If I were to make 20gp per day crafting or adventuring for the next 100 days, I would still probably not have enough.<a target="_blank" href="../view_profile?user.id=20495"><span></span></a><hr></blockquote>You won't as a weaponsmith that's for sure. <span>:smileytongue:</span>  But other trades are profitable.  I've done well for myself as an Armorer, enough that if I really wanted to I could go out and buy enough ebon for a full suit, and I made that money legitimately which you seem to think is impossible...  you just have to work for it!  I've never vendored a single piece of armor, every single piece of armor that I've made has been sold or given to players to use.  That's a lot of armor, trust me, if I remember correctly it took me around 100 pieces of armor just to get from level 28 to 29.I personally have only made two rare pieces of armor for myself, and I didn't get either of them until after I was a level 50 Paladin.  I will have a full suit in the future but I am in no hurry.  Once I get 50/50 (35% away! <span>:smileyvery-happy:</span>) I'll have lots of time to look for ebon.<span>:smileyhappy:</span>But I ask you, why does it have to cost 20-30pp to get a full suit of pristine ebon armor?  True, ebon is expensive, but there are other ways to get it other than getting gouged on the market.  A guildmate of mine has a full suit of ebon and an ebon weapon and I am pretty sure he harvested every single one.  I personally crafted five pieces of his ebon armor, imbued and everything, at no cost, well it cost me around 1.5gp to make each but I charged him nothing, and any other guildmate that wear's medium or heavy armor gets it for free whether they ask for it or not, and I happily do their rares for them at no charge when they are lucky enough to get a drop or harvest one. <span>:smileyhappy:So, just because it would cost YOU that much, doesn't mean it would cost everyone else that much.</span><div></div>

[demonevs]

<DIV>Hmmm </DIV> <DIV>Im level 42, managed to sell 1 rare ever, just sold the crap i picked up, and played the broker well (i.e bought stuff when it was low price - im not a reseller)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Currently in Heri Jboots, chest drop statted ebon pants/greaves/gauntlets, and i bought orc lord chest and helm for about 15g each.</DIV> <DIV>I do have a decent drop fabled wep which i got from a chest in feerrott and have been using guard of grumm since about level 20ish when i bought it for 20g.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Ive been saving up for a new shield, but have never had to buy 'bog standard' gear pretty much ever. </DIV> <DIV>All my spells are adept 1 quality (no ad3's or master, not needed them really) - ive never really *struggled* for cash that much and had to settle for poor armour.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I just wait, saved up, and bought stuff at a bargain price. They come up - just be patient.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I've worked hard for my gear and played the game correctly - im proud of what ive got, seems the OP has a little bit of the green eyed monster.</DIV>

[Deltree_c]

<P>I'm up to 43 now, and I've never owned a single piece of rare armor.  I soloed about 40% of the time up to level 30, and then 75% from 30 onward, in my shiny silver feyiron.  I've got imbued fulginate armor now, and have no desire to get forged ebon.  In fact, my first ebon cluster will go to the EBBC, and then the next will likely go toward a new one handed weapon.  Part of the reason is that I play a humble character; I never ride my horse anywhere (I prefer to walk with the commonfolk), and I wear a plain looking white robe while in town.  The rest of the reason is that I'm <STRIKE>cheap</STRIKE> efficient.  Also, I'm a bit of a narcissist.  I flat out refuse to wear a piece of armor if it doesn't match well with the rest.  If I do start to acquire ebon clusters, I will save them until I can get a full set at one time, because the only thing worse that someone mixing fulginate with ebon is someone who mixes feyiron and feysteel.  :smileytongue:</P> <P>Different priorities for different people.</P>

[Karlen]

I am still relatively low level (2<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> and am still wearing my pristine carbonite armor that I bought when I turned 20. I primarily solo, although I do tank for guild groups on occasions.  Perhaps it changes at higher level, but I am not sure that my armor matters all that much since only rarely do mobs get through my Demonstration of Faith ward unless I am out of power.   I recently got a new ward, Faithful Zeal, but it isn't as good as DoF Adept III yet and I can't afford an Adept III upgrade for it yet (is Adept III FZ as useful as DoF Adept III has been?).  At high level, do Paladins still rely heavily on their ward? I can see that, in groups, armor would be important as I usually take more damage than my ward can handle.  But my ward is enough to handle most solo mobs I fight -- since 27 I have started bashing on the 30-31 orcs just outside the port in Zek. I don't plan to get rare armor any time soon unless I happen upon it.  My current plan is to get a new set of armor made for me when I turn 30 -- whatever the regular armor for that level is (feyiron?). I didn't do any of the AQs. <div></div>

[Deltree_c]

<DIV>I stopped using wards with any regularity after level 30.  The blessed aid training upgrade was more than enough healing for me, and the ward just drained too much power over time.  I use my current one, which increases hate generation, right before I pull (to give a very slight boost in agro), before I heal myself (so it doesn't get interrupted), or to pull agro off a groupmate while we're en route to somewhere (quite handy for that).  It's a pretty nice utility spell when you can think to use it in certain situations, but unlike how DoF was when you first received it, it will never be a replacement for old-fashioned healing.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also, I saw AQ quests as an opportunity to learn <EM>how</EM> to group.  This was no longer just picking off gnolls in Antonica that the cleric could tank.  This stuff could kill you easily, and it did quite often.  It was a learning experience rather than a free set of bronze-and-chainmail armor.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>That being said, I'm never ever doing AQs again on any alts.  They're too much of a pain.  :smileytongue:</DIV>

[Roble]

<P>I keep 10 plat in the bank just in case I need it for a rare purchase.  I try to have 20pp so i can get items if they show up on the market.  Your going to get money eventually, and what are you going to do with it?  There is little to spend your money on.. a horse is a one time investment, my house is 2gp a week.  So I take in more money than I put out.  I am just very selective on what I buy...  I look daily for master spells.  I currently have a set of pristine forged ebon armor, but I will not be getting the imbued, it is just not worth it.</P> <P> </P> <P>I see your point if your playing the game and not making much coin.  But if you are making coin there is nothing better to spend your money on than spell upgrades and gear.</P> <p>Message Edited by RobleeS on <span class=date_text>04-12-2005</span> <span class=time_text>08:06 AM</span>

[Hephaet]

<DIV>once i hit 40 I slaughtered lizards in ferrott and got the cash for a full set of pristine fulignate.  I have adepts for all my skills plus some I don't have yet being lvl42.  So at this point I am just sitting on my cash waiting for something to buy.  Do I want ebon armor? Heck yes I do.  But the way I see it is ebon is way to expensive right now on the broker for me.  So if i end up harvesting it then yes i'll get some armor made.  Til then I'll just keep saving for some dolls.  By the time i'd be able to save up for some ebon on the market an expansion will be out with better gear like always.:smileywink:</DIV>

[BlackW]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> demonevs wrote:<BR> <DIV>Hmmm </DIV> <DIV>Im level 42, managed to sell 1 rare ever, just sold the crap i picked up, and played the broker well (i.e bought stuff when it was low price - im not a reseller)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Currently in Heri Jboots, chest drop statted ebon pants/greaves/gauntlets, and i bought orc lord chest and helm for about 15g each.</DIV> <DIV>I do have a decent drop fabled wep which i got from a chest in feerrott and have been using guard of grumm since about level 20ish when i bought it for 20g.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Ive been saving up for a new shield, but have never had to buy 'bog standard' gear pretty much ever. </DIV> <DIV>All my spells are adept 1 quality (no ad3's or master, not needed them really) - ive never really *struggled* for cash that much and had to settle for poor armour.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I just wait, saved up, and bought stuff at a bargain price. They come up - just be patient.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I've worked hard for my gear and played the game correctly - im proud of what ive got, seems the OP has a little bit of the green eyed monster.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Lol jealousy.  On the contrary, I assume that most I see wearing full pristine ebon armor got it with botted coin.  The assumption on the server I play on is that anyone who is not lvl 45+ adventurer and/or lvl 40+ artisan who is wearing full pristine ebon got it with botted coin.  We are not stupid and most players that get to tier5 know what they are doing.  We know how much coin we can make with legit crafting or adventuring.  The numbers just dont add up.  A pristine ebon curiass sells for 6pp+, then when you look at all of the other pieces at 3-5p that is at least 30p for a full set even if you buy direct.  That does not include weapons, jewelry and skills.  Most legit tier5 players I know dont have more than 1-2pp if they are careful and save.  Right or wrong, the assumption is that those who wear full ebon got it with botted coin.    The reason that the prices of rares are so high is because until recently the servers were swimming in botted coin.  Hopefully that will change.</P>

[RSZ]

<DIV>I am not going to enlighten you because from your post I gather that would be a time consuming task.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> BlackWeb wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> RSZ wrote:<BR> <P>To each his own...</P> <P> </P> <P>I could probably enjoy making an alt-that-gets-by-on-the-cheap, I don't fathom going this way on my main.</P> <P>Message Edited by RSZ on <SPAN class=date_text>04-11-2005</SPAN><SPAN class=time_text>07:01 PM</SPAN><BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Perhaps you can elighten us then.  Where are you going to legitimately get 20-30pp to pay for a full suit of pristine forged ebon vangaurd armor or a full set of ebon weapons?  If I were to make 20gp per day crafting or adventuring for the next 100 days, I would still probably not have enough. <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR></DIV>

[eyes007]

<DIV>Look I don't think what kind of armor is going to make a difference whether or not u are uber. The armor makes little difference with regard to mitigation and stats. The armor is the same except for the lambent or whatever imbue you have that perhaps heals or reacts at a 5% chance. I'm level 37 and whenever the armor's imbue activates heals me for 41 every two ticks or something. I have two thoughts on that, the level of healing/reaction is so pitiful it won't do jack*$%#&! particularly when beig hit by a Lvl35 or Lvl40 X4 Epic, but the other side of it is nor will having normal pristine armor either. The benefit though is that by perchance, the imbue will still give you that near-impossible ability of keeping you from dying by a few hitpoints.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now it is indeed expensive as I got Pristine Imbued Feysteel Cuirass (the breastplate) and the Pristine Imbued Feysteel Greaves (the long sexy legs of a barbarian) for about 2pp. Now that's good armor for me right up to Lvl45 (which I received at Lvl33-34). Checking the stats of fulginate and my current armor, a few AC points difference. Why I did that? Because instead of every black plated paladin running around, I will be the Coppery-reddish tinged (depending on ur graphics display....sigh) Lvl 40-whatevah strutting around like John travolta in tights!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>That's where the imbue is worth it, not in the actual "tanking sense" but the look, style, feel of your EQ2 experience. We're all striving to be different and thats the only way how. Now the unbelieveable aspect of this, I'm a Level 6 ARTISAN, I'm always helping lower levels with Heritage quests that I've already done and boattrips. In other words, don't make money tradeskilling, don't get much time to farm for dosh. Now where I got 2pp from, friends I've helped, people who loaned me the cash which I was able to pay back in a week or so from lucky sales and such but the point is, you will FIND the cash somehow, it isn't about whether you need to for your "job" as a tank, but rather how much you want it for style.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Okay while 2pp is soooo way different to 20pp or 30pp, the same rule applies, now with offline selling, you can make more money selling, you don't have to sell to the vendor for pittance and you can farm/tradeskill away happily.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>One thing to keep in mind, research the armor types and find out their colours, yes I said it, the colours. Since when do you need Pristine Feysteel Vanguard Spaulders when Silvril Vanguard Spaulders have similar stats and similar AC. They're the same colour, they're cheaper and they do the same job. My point is, there isn't a real need to imbue everything or buy all the same armor type and this is where it makes it cheaper. Also, a Breastplate of Rainbow (don't check - I made it up, if you did go to check it you are a pansyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy) may possibly drop thats fabled, has better stats and AC and is the same look as your ebon/fulginate/whatevah breastplate you did have!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Anyway...many reasons to choose imbued armor but whether you do makes no difference, if you're comfortable with your style then "Resepct" (as the famous Philosopher Ali-G once said) to you. Meanwhile, I'll continue saving up for my spirit steed and wonder why I can't buy a 40% speed donkey instead!</DIV>

[BlackW]

<DIV>I just added this section to my guide.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>lvl 20-30 (tier3)<BR>pristine forged carbonite (rare: steel) vanguard armor<BR>subclass armor (long sword, greatsword, battle hammer, war hammer)<BR>pristine forged carbonite (rare: steel) weapons<BR>pristine conditioned ash (rare: fir) kite shield<BR>pristine fashioned gold or agate jewelry and belt</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>lvl 30-40 (tier4)<BR>pristine forged feyiron (rare: feysteel) vanguard armor<BR>pristine forged feyiron (rare: feysteel) weapons (long sword, greatsword, battle hammer, war hammer)<BR>pristine conditioned briarwood (rare: oak) kite shield<BR>pristine fashioned vellium or opaline jewelry and belt</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>lvl 40-50 (tier5)<BR>pristine forged fulginate (rare: ebon) vanguard armor<BR>pristine forged fulginate weapons (rare:ebon) (long sword, greatsword, battle hammer, war hammer)<BR>pristine conditioned teak (rare: cedar) kite shield<BR>pristine fashioned diamondine or bloodstone jewelry and belt</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I am NOT suggesting that you buy rares.  If you look at my character, you will not that I have only 2 rare items, a rare kite shield and a rare long sword.  For the price of a single rare at each tier you can get ALL of the pristine normal harvestable items listed above 4 or 5 times over and they are all very good items.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As the previous poster wisely suggested you can have these items imbued for not a whole lot more coin.  I will leave it to others to explain what items you need for the imbuing extract at each teir and which items can be imbued.  You will notice that all of the items of mine that can be imbued have bene imbued. I am not sure if the blaze of strength imbue on my ring actually works.  I have yet to be able to find a blaze of strength icon in my skill pallet on the right of my screen.  The Lambent, Sanguine and Gleaming Strike imbues on my armor, sword and shield work quite well. Imbuing adds some good characteristics to your items without a whole lot of extra coin.</DIV> <DIV><BR> </DIV>

[BlackW]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> RSZ wrote:<BR> <DIV>I am not going to enlighten you because from your post I gather that would be a time consuming task.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> BlackWeb wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> RSZ wrote:<BR> <P>To each his own...</P> <P> </P> <P>I could probably enjoy making an alt-that-gets-by-on-the-cheap, I don't fathom going this way on my main.</P> <P>Message Edited by RSZ on <SPAN class=date_text>04-11-2005</SPAN><SPAN class=time_text>07:01 PM</SPAN><BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Perhaps you can elighten us then.  Where are you going to legitimately get 20-30pp to pay for a full suit of pristine forged ebon vangaurd armor or a full set of ebon weapons?  If I were to make 20gp per day crafting or adventuring for the next 100 days, I would still probably not have enough. <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>I am not going to flame, be rude or trade insults with anyone over this.  I am not here to pass judgement on anyone and I assume that most who post here are legit players.  Let's look at the numbers:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Crafting or adventuring in tier4 and tier5, you can make an average of about 10-20gp a day, maybe more if you get lucky.  If you get lucky harvesting, you can make a platinum maybe once every week or two.  Crafting income depends on your skill level and cash reserve.  If you have a lot of platinum saved up you can buy rares, craft and resell them at a significant profit.  Most high level artisans will not make more than 20-50 gp a day.  Lets be optimistic and say that you can make 25gp per day crafing or adventuring.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>To get a full set of pristine forged ebon armor would cost an average of 4-5pp per item if you get a very good deal.  Throw in a pristine conditioned cedar rare shield for another 1-2pp and a rare pristine forged ebon weapon for another 4-5pp:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>pristine forged ebon vangaurd armor 7 x 4pp = 28pp</DIV> <DIV>pristine forged ebon weapon 5pp</DIV> <DIV>pristine cedar kite shield 2pp</DIV> <DIV>Total  = 35pp</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Add another 1pp for 4 imbues and we come to 36pp</DIV> <DIV>36pp = 3,600 gp</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Income 3,600gp/25gp/day = 144 days @ 25gp/day</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So, it would take almost 5 months of daily legit tier5 gameplay, 6-8 hours/day crafting and/or adventuring to earn enough platinum to buy a full set of rare armor, shield and weapons, not including jewelry and skills.  If you do a lot of harvesting, get lucky and find your own ebon or other rare harvestable  for 2 or 3 items, you may be able to cut that in half.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The real problem here is the inflated prices of rares. Tier5 rare harvestables such as ebon and cedar should be selling for 1-2pp at the most.  The prices of normal harvestable crafted items are about where they should be.  The prices of rares have been inflated by all of the botted coin flowing into the servers.  Very few legitimate players can afford to buy the items listed above.  I know that SOE is doing their best to stop botters and I hope they continue to do so.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Until the botters are stopped (I see them every night in the Feerrot), I will be a proud blue-collar Paladin and working-class hero! :smileyhappy:</DIV><p>Message Edited by BlackWeb on <span class=date_text>04-13-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:06 AM</span>

[Hawgeous]

<P>Bottom line, some people are better at selling and buying than others. You don't have to do anything immoral to make money in the game, you just have to have enough whatever to find a niche or closely follow the market. It can be done but you have to make it part of your game time priority. </P> <P>As far as the if it is worth it or not, have you ever died from an encounter when the target only had a few more HP left before he was done? I have, and a few points/stats here and there can make a difference, to me at least.</P>

[BlackW]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Hawgeous wrote:<BR> <P>Bottom line, some people are better at selling and buying than others. You don't have to do anything immoral to make money in the game, you just have to have enough whatever to find a niche or closely follow the market. It can be done but you have to make it part of your game time priority. </P> <P>As far as the if it is worth it or not, have you ever died from an encounter when the target only had a few more HP left before he was done? I have, and a few points/stats here and there can make a difference, to me at least.</P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Off-line selling is a huge help in making some more coin.  The big problem for me was always staying logged on in my room selling.  I gave that up long ago and sold most items to the wholesaler.  Now I can get decent prices for items with off-line selling and I can more easily sell crafted items.  My income has gone way up but nowhere near enough to generate 35+pp anytime soon.</P> <P>As for some people being better at it, when it comes to rapidly acquiring 35+pp, there is no such thing as "better at selling".  The only players who can acquire that much platinum in a few days are botters. </P>

[Igst]

<DIV>I am not looking to flame anyone but this thread seems to me to be extremely judgemental and as far as I can see, makes very big assumptions.  Just because a player has pristine ebon kit on him does not imply that he is a farmer or a botter in any way.  This might be true in some cases but it is very dangerous to start bandying this view about as if it is proven fact.</DIV> <DIV>Same as adept spells versus apprentice I - if you can afford or get hold of these spells you <STRONG>should</STRONG> go for them.</DIV> <DIV>If you can afford imbued/quality weapons - you should go for them..</DIV> <DIV>If you can afford rare armour or get a decent drop then you should go for them.</DIV> <DIV>It has nothing to do with being 'honourable' or 'proud' or being a farmer or being blue collar.  It's just what you should go for.  The more you hang around tier 5, which you should be doing if you are in your high 40s/50 range, then pretty much you are looking around for challenges and loot drops.  A good ^^^ challenge and you've got a good chance of getting some nice loot.  Some of which might be ebon, cedar, linen or any of the rares.  If you get any of these, the cost of a high level crafter making you something decent is tiny - and nothing like the 3-4 plat being quoted in this thread.  Although there are people around that will buy stuff at these silly prices, I know that most ppl are just waiting for that rare drop or rare harvest and they have a crafter lined up to make the item they have sought after for a long time at a fraction of the prices being thrown around this post.</DIV> <DIV>What is the point of using that ebon disk you managed to get if questing for the EBBC if you tend to tank almost 90% of the time with your guild.  I get much more use out of my breastplate than I ever would with an EBBC.  I'd like to have the EBBC but I choose to use the ebon to up the quality of my armour.</DIV> <DIV>If I get a cedar drop it will probably go towards getting a cedar kite shield - I'm not gonna pay the mad prices for them though - I cant afford that.  If I get an ebon drop it will either go to an imbued weapon or another piece of ebon armour.  What is the problem with that?  To my mind, that is what every other fairly high level character is looking to do, be them tanks, clerics, scouts or mages.</DIV> <DIV>35 platinum is a lot of coin.  It is easily 35 times the amount of money that I have ever had at any time.  But that is because I upgrade everything as much as I possibly can when I can afford it.  Because you reach a ceiling at level 50, this means that once you get to that level you no longer need spell upgrades so much and there are only two things to go for - master spells or adept iii's and rares for improving your equipment.  What else are you going to spend money on?</DIV>

[eyes007]

<DIV>Anyone notice now the huge diversity in prices now? Now with offline selling I keep whatever I find to sell on my house vault. When you look at the prices you will see the initial price it may have been once except now you see an increase in the supply and the subsequent undercut prices people have put down to try and sell their's over the former. While offline selling seems to have cheapened the value of items in terms of their overall worth (as opposed to the inflated value), it does mean that things like ebon can possibly drop in price, only because people want to sell their stuff and they know matching a price already available isn't going to get rid of it anytime soon.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The argument about imbued armor and it's cost will be a moot point now, I think over the next few months, things will change a little. Agreeing with Black, the ability to sell was hampered by the need to be on and the patches every night, there shouldn't be any excuse now not to sell items of medium worth and up and that will drive the price down. You will find the economy start to get ultra-competitive now, I almost had to laugh, one particular item was being sold only by three people, all by the same guild. One was at 7g, the next was at 4g and the one that i was selling at 3g. Things are going to get interesting to say the least, point is, if ebon is worth 15pp per piece now, there is no guarantee it will be 15pp in a month, and now that people pause at descriptions, particularly "fabled", they will attempt to sell, and put the cheapest price available to sell theirs quicker. Gotta love third world economies, even if it ain't real!!</DIV>

[BlackW]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Igster wrote:<BR> <DIV>I am not looking to flame anyone but this thread seems to me to be extremely judgemental and as far as I can see, makes very big assumptions.  Just because a player has pristine ebon kit on him does not imply that he is a farmer or a botter in any way.  This might be true in some cases but it is very dangerous to start bandying this view about as if it is proven fact.</DIV> <DIV>Same as adept spells versus apprentice I - if you can afford or get hold of these spells you <STRONG>should</STRONG> go for them.</DIV> <DIV>If you can afford imbued/quality weapons - you should go for them..</DIV> <DIV>If you can afford rare armour or get a decent drop then you should go for them.</DIV> <DIV>It has nothing to do with being 'honourable' or 'proud' or being a farmer or being blue collar.  It's just what you should go for.  The more you hang around tier 5, which you should be doing if you are in your high 40s/50 range, then pretty much you are looking around for challenges and loot drops.  A good ^^^ challenge and you've got a good chance of getting some nice loot.  Some of which might be ebon, cedar, linen or any of the rares.  If you get any of these, the cost of a high level crafter making you something decent is tiny - and nothing like the 3-4 plat being quoted in this thread.  Although there are people around that will buy stuff at these silly prices, I know that most ppl are just waiting for that rare drop or rare harvest and they have a crafter lined up to make the item they have sought after for a long time at a fraction of the prices being thrown around this post.</DIV> <DIV>What is the point of using that ebon disk you managed to get if questing for the EBBC if you tend to tank almost 90% of the time with your guild.  I get much more use out of my breastplate than I ever would with an EBBC.  I'd like to have the EBBC but I choose to use the ebon to up the quality of my armour.</DIV> <DIV>If I get a cedar drop it will probably go towards getting a cedar kite shield - I'm not gonna pay the mad prices for them though - I cant afford that.  If I get an ebon drop it will either go to an imbued weapon or another piece of ebon armour.  What is the problem with that?  To my mind, that is what every other fairly high level character is looking to do, be them tanks, clerics, scouts or mages.</DIV> <DIV>35 platinum is a lot of coin.  It is easily 35 times the amount of money that I have ever had at any time.  But that is because I upgrade everything as much as I possibly can when I can afford it.  Because you reach a ceiling at level 50, this means that once you get to that level you no longer need spell upgrades so much and there are only two things to go for - master spells or adept iii's and rares for improving your equipment.  What else are you going to spend money on?</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>LOL!  I didnt say they were botters.  I said that the coin they used to buy the ebon was botted.  As in they probably bought it using real life coin from botters.  I really dont want to explain it any further.  I think you can figure the rest out.  If someone is wearing an Ebon breastplate, that does not necessarily mean they got it using botted coin.  If someone is wearing full pristine imbued ebon vangaurd plate along with ebon weapons, a cedar kite shield and maybe some rare fashoined jewelry along with full adept iii skills, either they have their entire guild feeding them coin and items, are an uber successful lvl 45+ artisan or they are they are using botted coin (coin purchased from botters with real life coin).</P> <P>The chances of harvesting 7 ebon clusters in any reasonable amount of time is slim to none unless you are using some sort of harvesting bot.   I know of no such bots and if they exist, I dont want it posted here.  4pp is a good price for an ebon cluster.  Market prices for ebon on my server are much higher than the ones I quoted above. The last pristine imbued ebon curiass I saw on the market was 9pp.  l  Again, the numbers simply do not add up.  Given the current prices of ebon, cedar and other tier5 rares. there is no way 99% of the legit players on any server can afford to fully outfit their character with rares.  </P>

[Iustus]

<P>No one is paying 6pp for an ebon anything. </P> <P>On my server, ebon raws go for 150-200g. You are lucky if you can get an extra 50g to make someone an imbued bp.</P> <P>A full suit is going to set you back 10-20p at most, and that is assuming you are buying the ebon. If you are harvesting it, or getting it on drops, you are talking only a few plat for a full suit.</P> <P>Steel and feysteel are pretty cheep now, and I think they make a huge difference.</P> <P>-I</P>

[Darki]

I agree, 4pp for ebon is ridiculous!  People have been trying to sell them for 2.5pp on my server and they aren't moving any.  I personally won't buy for more than 2pp and I'd really have to need it to spend that much. On the other hand, I do ebon combines for 25g and imbues 10g.  Which I have been told is a very good price.  <span>:smileyhappy:</span> <div></div>

[GilfalasElaandrin]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> BlackWeb wrote:<BR> <DIV>I have noticed a disturbing trend among my brother and sister high-level Paladins.<BR> <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I see no reason you should think this 'distrurbing'. Now if you mean that higher level Paladin say they NEED rare gear to simply operate, then I would 100% agree. But your wording <EM>seems</EM> to indicate that you think anyone with rare armor or weapons are doing something wrong and with that I cannot disagree more.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I am one such as you speak of. I wear full Feysteel Vanguard armor. I have a rare crafetd Oak shield and wear a rare crafted cloth belt. I also sport a rare imbued hex doll and two imbued crafted rings. I have cratfter friends in every category in game and either gather the rares myself or buy them and have them fashioned at cost. I have worked towards the end of having the best equipment I can so I can be that much better of a warrior and for myself I have noticed a REAL difference.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>For me the money IS worth it. The increased health, power, stats, avoidance and mitigation and resists and the spell effects (EVERYONE should have a +str hex doll, it casts SLOW with unlimited charges!) are very much usefull and the gear is 24/7 constant protection and enhancement.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I also have boosted my spells as well when I could afford such, but for the COST, not all spells benefit greatly from adept III. Do a search on your brokers and check out the difference in adept or master book affects and your standard app 4's. Some are nearly no upgrade at all. That is a pretty good indicator of how much utility you will get from an ability if you use a rare on it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also, not all spells are usefull all the time. The only spells I have upgraded to Adept 3 are my targetable heal and Oath Strike. Both get used a lot, can be used any time and with any weapon. As such they get a lot of use, unlike a lot of the situational spells we have.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now I TOTALLY agree with your kite shield statement. And these days it is worth spending the extra money or savin up extra money to have any rare you do manage to get imbued.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV>Pristine normal material greatswords do plenty of damage, a rare is just a status symbol and a waste of coin.  <HR> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I will disagree with this. I am a weaponsmith as well as a Paladin and see first hand the stats on the two handers that I create for people from rare mateirials.  They universally have the stat bonus' of the next higher tier weapon and have damage half way betwee their actual tier and the next. They are in almost all cases the very best weapons you can get (barring heritage). If you look at the imbued feysteel Greatsword you will see it has the same totals on Health/Power and bonus stats as the pristine Fulginate. And the feysteel will out damage the fulginate to level 33, easily.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The only time I would agree is if you are main tanking far more than not. A good two handed weapon is fantastic for being a second tank in a group and the rares are simply the best.<BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> BlackWeb wrote:<BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You do not need a full set of rare elite items to be an elite player.  You can be a working-class Paladin and still be a great Paladin. </DIV> <DIV><BR> <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>Absolutely correct. You do not NEED these high ticket items to function and excell. But if you CAN get them you can and will excel that much more. Well skilled player in the absolutely best gear means you can take on even higher challenges and risks and come out that much better. Again, it is not NECESSARY to have them. They are not a NECESSITY. But downplaying their benefit is just as misleading as saying they are needed.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If gear is so meaningless then why not only wear medium armor?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV>Playing well in normal armor is a greater challenge and shows greater skill those who turn to the next tier and instantly show up wearing a full set of brand-new elite rare (legendary) items.</DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now this is simply insulting. How is it that you can only be challenged in EQ 2 if you have normal gear? I know in my case I seek challenge. If a blue solo does not give it I go to a white. If a white solo does not I try a yellow. If a yellow does not I try an orange. If not an orange I try red.  I try green heroics. I try blue heroics. Sometime I actually BEAT blue heroic's (very rarely but I have). That, to me, is definately a challenge as are red solo mobs.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Challenge is there if you seek it out. Better gear allows you to address greater challenges. No it is not NECESSARY to play the game. But to denigrate those who like to play that way is silly when every tank of any stature strives to get better weapons and armor.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I would assume you do as well. I mean are you still using the same gear you won on the Isle of refuge? Of course not. You have gotten upgrade because the new gear was BETTER and allowed you to do your job better as well.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Those who can afford better gear can make their own decisions on what their money is worth in way of upgrade. You are definately right to say that rare gear os not NEEDED to have fun. But your 100% wrong to say it does not make a difference. Better gear always makes a difference. The major deciding factor is your cash flow.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <HR> Perhaps you can elighten us then.  Where are you going to legitimately get 20-30pp to pay for a full suit of pristine forged ebon vangaurd armor or a full set of ebon weapons?  If I were to make 20gp per day crafting or adventuring for the next 100 days, I would still probably not have enough. <HR> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>1) Crafting can earn you good coin if you dedicate the time and effort. It is not easy. It is time consuming to craft and gather. You have to actively sell your product and there is no gurentee what you make even WILL sell. But if your successful you can afford some very nice upgrades. That is why I have the gear I do. I am not rich by any means. At any one time 30-50% of my cash worth is tied up in weapons that I hope will sell. When you drop 1 plat a night simply trying to get XP in your class moeny can disapear very fast. I got my feysteel before the interdependance patch, when I could sell spikes and bars to other players. I seriously doubt I will be in full Ebon at tier 5. I cannot even afford an ebon on my server currently. But it is a personal goal of mine. One I find as callenging as tanking a group of orange mobs for my friends.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>2) Guild help. I know the top raid guild on AB has gather nights and writ nights. The ENTIRE guild takes those nights and does nothing but gathering and status writs of various kinds. The rares they get are pooled and given to who the guild wants. Their main tanks are in full ebon inbued vanguard. Their rangers all have rare bows. Everyone has rare shields. Most everyone has rare material items to some greater or lesser extent.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>3) Heavy play time and luck. I have a friend who just plays WAY too much. She gathers a LOT and is *$%#&! lucky when she does. She has a pritein teak box FULL of rares that she has harvested or purchased, 2/3 of that personally harvested.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It is very, very possible to get my type of gear without EVER cheating, exploiting, play farming, or buying from the accursed plat sellers in RL. It is called hard work and a little luck.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Mind you I probably have high play time and I chose to boost crafter first adventuror second, so I could be ahead of and supply the market as it grew. And that has definately helped so I am not typical of all players. But I am proof that you CAN achieve that end should you set your mind to it and work towards that.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And that is JUST as valid, honest and proper as being a 'blue collar paladin'. Not better, but definately not lesser either. Just a different way to play.</DIV> <P></P> <HR> Strive for the best you can get but don't be discouraged if the best you can get is the common stuff,  it works just fine <HR> <P>An absolutely perfect summation. <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P></P> <HR> You will notice that all of the items of mine that can be imbued have bene imbued. I am not sure if the blaze of strength imbue on my ring actually works.  I have yet to be able to find a blaze of strength icon in my skill pallet on the right of my screen.  <HR> <P>Your rings are castable spells. Once they are worn, you can drag their inventory locations to your tool bar and click them just like a spell and they will cast a buff on you that last 24 minutes of their effect. Alternatively you can simpley examine the rings when they are attuned and worn and cast their effects from the clikc menu as well.</P><SPAN class=time_text>Same for hex dolls.</SPAN><p>Message Edited by GilfalasElaandrin on <span class=date_text>04-14-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:42 AM</span>

[Gaige]

<P>If you were in a raiding guild you'd have so many rares you wouldn't know what to do with them all, as they drop like candy from the normal raid rotation.  I know plenty of guilds with stuffed guild banks full of rares, and sometimes you don't even need DKP to get them.</P> <P>Besides, who pays "retail" for rares anyway, I always get the rare and then barter a combine price.</P> <P>Just yesterday I bought two t5 rare pelts for 15g each and two luminous for 5g.</P> <P>That's not bad.</P> <P>Even back when ebon was super rare I got my maces made for 1.5pp total, including the ebon.</P>

[BlackW]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gage-Mikel wrote:<BR> <P>If you were in a raiding guild you'd have so many rares you wouldn't know what to do with them all, as they drop like candy from the normal raid rotation.  I know plenty of guilds with stuffed guild banks full of rares, and sometimes you don't even need DKP to get them.</P> <P>Besides, who pays "retail" for rares anyway, I always get the rare and then barter a combine price.</P> <P>Just yesterday I bought two t5 rare pelts for 15g each and two luminous for 5g.</P> <P>That's not bad.</P> <P>Even back when ebon was super rare I got my maces made for 1.5pp total, including the ebon.</P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Gage-Mikel, we had a lvl 50 Kerran monk in our party the last time I was inside Cazic-Thule.  He tanked for us, lvl 44-50 mobs.  We also had a lvl 50 paladin in our group.  I have to admit, that monk was the single strongest character I have ever seen in eq2.  He was unbelievably strong, did an insane amount of damage and pretty much owned everything he fought.  Made me almost wish i was a monk <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>On another note, on my server, you will NEVER get a n ebon cluster for less than 3pp.  I got the cluster for my sword direct from the seller and it was still well over 2pp.  Rares are overpriced for the simple reason that the servers are still swimming in botted coin.</P>

[Gaige]

Ah yeah 3pp is pretty high.  They are up there on Guk but coming down a bit.  Just sucks that med/heavy both use ebon so there is more competition for that stuff.

[SanJ]

<P>I have experimented with earning coin via adventuring/combat as well as crafting.  Both professions have pros and cons for earning coin.  I'm currently at 43 paladin and 38 jeweler.  I have sold just under 7 plat since rollout via merchant mode.  I have no idea how much I've sold to city merchants, but it's certainly a significant amount.</P> <P>A typical day of combat fighting green or blue ^^ (5-6 hours) will net me anywhere from 7-15 gold on the city merchant (blood vials, skins, skulls, armor/weapons with no stats, etc.).  Most adept 1 drops in tier 5 sell for 2.6 gold to the city merchant.  The ones that aren't flooded on the broker board tend to net 4-8 gold within 2-4 days.  If I see the broker has 3 or more pages below city merchant pricing I'll buy them all and sell them back to the city merchant.  I have made up to 6 gold in one session doing this in 10 or less minutes.  It's beyond me why people don't check the prices on city merchants prior to flooding the market.  Experiment with this on adept 1's that have 3-4 page listings and you'll see what I mean.  Selling better loot such as adepts, stated equipment, etc. will typically net another (say 3 items average 5 gold) 15 gold within the next 2-4 days.</P> <P>I can craft tons of tier 2, 3, and 4 jewelry and some days I'll sell a dozen pieces in 30 minutes while other days I'll sell 1 item in 3 days.  It's very hit or miss.  However, I can still make a significant amount of coin selling jewelry.  Najena has a LOT of tier 4 and 5 jewelers so at the moment, adventuring and rare harvesting is much more profitable for me then crafting.</P> <P>When I run out of adventure vitality, I tend to sell from my house vault logged out to rebuild vitality and when I'm in game I harvest tier 5 for rares.  I typically get at least 1 uncommon every 2-3 hours of constant non stop harvesting.  Tier 5 uncommons (luminous) sell on Najena from 5 to 6 gold (usually page and half of them at that price).  If I harvest 4-6 hours I will typically get at least 1 rare if not 2, although I've gone several trips and came home empty handed, so it's very random.  I have been fortunate harvesting rares (where I've earned the most coin in sales).  I typically offer what I've harvested non-rare's to guild first.  If no one wants them I offer them on the crafting channel for free to first come first serve basis.  I've met so many people this way that when it's time to request a tier 5 pristine imbued ebon long sword (for instance) I can usually get someone to make or give me one free if I replace the rare and luminous (sometimes from a guild member, sometimes from a stranger on the crafting channel that later tells me bro you've given me 200 units of tier 5 teak--it's the least I can do is make it since you have all the stuff).</P> <P>Resources, sans the food, sell in tier 5 on my server at BEST 1 silver and usually 1 copper <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> so why not make new friends just giving the stuff away on the crafting channel.  I keep diamondine for myself and some fulginate for jewelry when I ding 40, but I think 500 units of each banked is more then enough to make just rings at 40 <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>I sold a figwart last night for 39 gold, priced my rhodium cluster for 1 plat 39 gold (cheapest on the board for 4 days straight) and I sold 4 luminous pieces for 6 gold each.</P> <P>I have harvested 1 ebon cluster since reaching tier 5 even though I've harvested probably 50+ hours (have pristine imbued ebon long sword--love it as GB replacement), so it's not likely I'll have ebon armor anytime soon.  I will most likely do the tier 5 heritage BBC when I find another cluster and over time I will save for some ebon armor.. BUT .. I saw a 50 guardian in Qeynos yesterday wearing some orange con armor to me at 43 that was a bright white breastplate and shoulders that shamed the rare ebon.  His crown was better then the ebon so it made me think I might not buy ebon as I harvest them but sell for more coin to bank for future upgrades.</P> <P>I have all tier 5 fulginate atm as well as tier 5 rare ebon longsword and ebon kite shield (doing SBS heritage since I've been through 1,600 units of teak without any cedar-- I knew I'd pay my dues for getting 4 rare oak in tier 4 .. ha!)</P> <P>All my spells are minimum app 4 while  about 70 percent are adept 1.  I have no adept 3's or master spells yet and doubt I will for a long time.  All my jewelry is orange sans the green fishbone earring, so I'm pretty happy with what I have (32 percent speed horse I forgot and a very luxurious home in Qeynos Harbor with several rare pieces of furniture and great decorations)</P> <P>I don't know how so many players have full suits of ebon already that are low 40's (maybe several crafting alts), but I do know one guy in my guild that has 4 level 50 crafting alts that would obviously crank out coin quick <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  I'm thrilled for those that have attained such quality items, I'm sure a few have botted, but I do realize it's possible with dedicated play, lucky harvesting (watched a guy pull 2 ebons from the same rock one day), hard crafting and knowing where to farm, it's doable without exploits/dupes/bugs/etc.  I have financed several alts, several friends, currently have nearly 2 plat again after buying my horse and spending 85 gold with a friend to get him one, twinking my 22 rat assassin and his buddies, that I could certainly if dedicated purchased a half suit pretty easily by now at only 43.85 level combat.</P> <P>I'm just glad we can examine other players and see neat stuff we might want to work towards--lazy me needs FBSS still, group for the emporer for SBS, those hex dolls have caught my eye (why did I sell that figwart? <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> and much more.</P> <P>Allthough I have good gear, it's certainly not the best, but I sure do get a lot of "great tanking bro" tells and "I'll group with you anyday friend" on my current gear so I'm happy enough.  I probably spend way too much time studying the brokers but I picked up heart reaver 2-hander for around 3 gold (which usually sells for 15+ if not 30 on Najena) as well as many tier 4 and a few tier 5 adept 1's on the black market with 40 percent commission for still 70 silver to 2 gold range (quite a deal).</P> <P>Take care!</P> <P>Kalen</P>

[BlackW]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gage-Mikel wrote:<BR>Ah yeah 3pp is pretty high.  They are up there on Guk but coming down a bit.  Just sucks that med/heavy both use ebon so there is more competition for that stuff. <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>3pp is a good deal on my server.  Some guy just tried to sell me an Ebon Cluster online.  I guess he figured I am 40, I have pretty good but not great gear, I must have the coin.  I dont.

[Oakbr]

<DIV><EM>As for some people being better at it, when it comes to rapidly acquiring 35+pp, there is no such thing as "better at selling".  The only players who can acquire that much platinum in a few days are botters.</EM> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Sorry dude, but I just have to wave the BS flag on ya.  Making money legit is not at all difficult in this game.  Playing the market well is probably the easiest way, but there are tons of others.  Harvesting rares yourself, and hiring a Crafter to do the combines is the way to go to get good gear at affordable prices.  My level 32 Pally got both his Pristine Imbued Feysteel pieces this way, and paid less than half the cost of a single piece as listed on the broker.  Same deal with adept 3 spells.  I provide the rare, and the Crafters are happy to do the combines for me at a reasonable price for their time.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Just because you apparently have bad luck trying to make coin doesn't mean those of us that have nice gear are cheaters. </DIV>

[Taeolen]

One of these years, in one of these games, people will realize that it's not the gear that makes the character good/bad/etc, but the player behind the wheel. Until then, they will fantasize and have wet dreams about all those rare items mysterically turning them uber and making them better at playing the class. <div></div>

[GilfalasElaandrin]

<DIV> <P></P> <HR> Just yesterday I bought two t5 rare pelts for 15g each and two luminous for 5g. <P>That's not bad.</P> <HR> </DIV>On AB that would be INSANELY GOOD. 'not bad' being an understatement os interstellar proportions. If you can get a tier 5 rare or any kind for less tha 50 gold on AB your doing fantastic and ebons simply do not sell for less than 2.6 plat (hence why I have none).

[githnaur]

Aside of boots, I am in full pristine ebon plate.  I don't bot.  I poured hours into harvesting, found 2 ebon clusters myself, and bought the rest for 1.5pp each.  Paid a crafter 40 - 50gp per combine. Of course, this was when the harvesting market was paying 12 - 20sp per T5 harvest.  Nowadays that is down to 1s, 2-3s if you are very lucky. If I had started playing EQ2 now, i would have had a much harder time getting into the armour i am currently wearing. As for the bonuses, ebon is a vast upgrade over fulginate, and very much worth it.  But don't get me wrong, if i knew back then what i know now about the rare harvest drop rates from the epic encounters, i wouldn't have burned so much money <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Weapon-wise, ebon is acceptible until you are able to procure a good fabled weapon, since it actually hits the epic mobs.  If you don't have an ebon weapon, the y'kesha sword will tide you over 'till you do. <div></div>

[JarredDarque]

<DIV>Sanjun</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>there is a Masxter Armorer Volume drop that contains recipes for rubicite armor, it outshines the Master Dropped T5 gear.  I dont know what it looks like,  color or anything, but that may be what that guard was wearing,  I know that the big raid guild on our server has the book,  and their armorer,  a 50/50 SK, armorer.....thats just wrong <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />   an SK with that stuff.</DIV>

[Neko]

<P>So what is the 'Blue Collar' / Elite  for each Level range?</P> <P>Lv20 =</P> <P>Lv30s =</P> <P>Lv 40s =</P>

[prisoner]

<DIV>Lvl 20 is easy,  all your armor is free if you quest it.  Doesn't get any more blue collar than that <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>20 - pristine carbonite / AQ / pristine steel</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>30 - pristine feyiron / pristine feysteel</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>40 - pristine fulginate / pristine ebon</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>17</DIV>

[Seek]

<P>ive just hit lvl 40 pally.  ATM im wearing a full pristine fulginate set of armor with a imbued chest and leggings (because i solo alot).  I also have a imbued str ring which cost me 30 gold to bump up my stats alittle.</P> <P> </P> <P>Ive just seen a lvl 41 SK with a FULL ebon armor set which costs god knows how much and he only had 250 ac more than me which is pathetic for the actual cost of the armor.  When i started out playing EQ2 i was one of these ppl who had to have the best rare stuff no matter how much it costs, now after seeing this 41 SK i have changed my mind alot as an extra 250 AC@ 1 lvl higher than me isnot worth the extra plat and is alot better spent on other things like horses/weapons/spells</P>

[Dwergux]

<span><blockquote><hr>Seekor wrote:<p>ive just hit lvl 40 pally.  ATM im wearing a full pristine fulginate set of armor with a imbued chest and leggings (because i solo alot).  I also have a imbued str ring which cost me 30 gold to bump up my stats alittle.</p> <p>Ive just seen a lvl 41 SK with a FULL ebon armor set which costs god knows how much and he only had 250 ac more than me which is pathetic for the actual cost of the armor.  When i started out playing EQ2 i was one of these ppl who had to have the best rare stuff no matter how much it costs, now after seeing this 41 SK i have changed my mind alot as an extra 250 AC@ 1 lvl higher than me isnot worth the extra plat and is alot better spent on other things like horses/weapons/spells</p> <div></div><hr></blockquote>At lower levels the difference isn't as great as at lev 50. But AC isn't the only difference, also the other stats like +hp, +power and saves are alot better on ebon. Note : I don't have a single piece of ebon armor yet, but I hope to obtain some pieces in the future. Only ebon cluster I ever had was obtained  from a guildie and I used it for my EBBC.</span> <div></div>

[Miracole]

<span><blockquote><hr>BlackWeb wrote:<div>I have noticed a disturbing trend among my brother and sister high-level Paladins. They all seem to think they need rare (legendary) armor and weapons to survive.  I am a blue-collar warrior.  I have never owned any rare armor.  I doubt I will ever own any rare armor.  It is too expensive for too little additonal benefit.  pristine forged fulginate vangaurd (carbonite or feyiron) is very good armor and 1/20 the cost.  For a few extra gold you can have your curiass and greaves imbued.  Armorers are happy to sell you normal pristine armor.  You can go directly to an armorer and make a deal for a full set of pristine normal vangaurd armor for whatever tier you are playing at for a fraction of the cost of rare armor.  You can get a full set of pristine forged fulginate vangaurd armor for about 30g.  A full set of prstine forged ebon vangaurd plate is 20-30pp.  If you are wearing a full suit of pristine Ebon armor you are either in an extremely wealthy guild, have very generous friends, are an uber-successful artisan, very lucky at finding rares or you are feeding real life coin to botters.</div> <div> </div> <div>If you are going to invest in a rare item, invest in a rare kite shield.  You will get much greater defensive benefit for much less coin than rare armor.  If you are going to buy a rare weapon, get a rare long sword.  Pristine normal material greatswords do plenty of damage, a rare is just a status symbol and a waste of coin.  Invest your coin in skill upgrades, not rare armor.  Skill upgrades will provide much greater benefit for less coin than rare armor.   You do not need a full set of rare elite items to be an elite player.  You can be a working-class Paladin and still be a great Paladin.  Playing well in normal armor is a greater challenge and shows greater skill those who turn to the next tier and instantly show up wearing a full set of brand-new elite rare (legendary) items.</div> <div> </div> <div> </div> <div> </div><hr></blockquote>says mr. T4 (or 3, whatever, the 40% horse) horse with a guild lvl of no more than 10. that's 9 plat you blew on a horse when you could have treated yourself to 2 pieces of imbued ebon armor. i don't understand how you can spend all yoursavings on something you shouldn't even use in combat instead of the stuff that keeps you alive....and, AND come here and *$%#&! about people who save all their money for some decent armor.... sigh... web, i just don't understand you...</span><div></div>

[Darki]

Ahahaha, he's got ya there.  <span>:smileyvery-happy:</span> I haven't bought a horse yet, though I might when my guild gets level 25.  As of now my jboots are working just fine and when I need an extra boost for those long trips I pop a charge off of one of my SoW totems.  <span>:smileyhappy:</span> <div></div>

[BlackW]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Miracole wrote:<BR><SPAN><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> BlackWeb wrote:<BR> <DIV>I have noticed a disturbing trend among my brother and sister high-level Paladins. They all seem to think they need rare (legendary) armor and weapons to survive.  I am a blue-collar warrior.  I have never owned any rare armor.  I doubt I will ever own any rare armor.  It is too expensive for too little additonal benefit.  pristine forged fulginate vangaurd (carbonite or feyiron) is very good armor and 1/20 the cost.  For a few extra gold you can have your curiass and greaves imbued.  Armorers are happy to sell you normal pristine armor.  You can go directly to an armorer and make a deal for a full set of pristine normal vangaurd armor for whatever tier you are playing at for a fraction of the cost of rare armor.  You can get a full set of pristine forged fulginate vangaurd armor for about 30g.  A full set of prstine forged ebon vangaurd plate is 20-30pp.  If you are wearing a full suit of pristine Ebon armor you are either in an extremely wealthy guild, have very generous friends, are an uber-successful artisan, very lucky at finding rares or you are feeding real life coin to botters.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If you are going to invest in a rare item, invest in a rare kite shield.  You will get much greater defensive benefit for much less coin than rare armor.  If you are going to buy a rare weapon, get a rare long sword.  Pristine normal material greatswords do plenty of damage, a rare is just a status symbol and a waste of coin.  Invest your coin in skill upgrades, not rare armor.  Skill upgrades will provide much greater benefit for less coin than rare armor.   You do not need a full set of rare elite items to be an elite player.  You can be a working-class Paladin and still be a great Paladin.  Playing well in normal armor is a greater challenge and shows greater skill those who turn to the next tier and instantly show up wearing a full set of brand-new elite rare (legendary) items.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>says mr. T4 (or 3, whatever, the 40% horse) horse with a guild lvl of no more than 10.<BR><BR>that's 9 plat you blew on a horse when you could have treated yourself to 2 pieces of imbued ebon armor. i don't understand how you can spend all yoursavings on something you shouldn't even use in combat instead of the stuff that keeps you alive....and, AND<BR><BR>come here and *$%#&! about people who save all their money for some decent armor....<BR><BR><BR>sigh... web, i just don't understand you...<BR></SPAN> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Wildon, you are a great player and a great Paladin, you have my respect.  You are a stronger Paladin than me but I am strong for my level.  I believe you set a good example for all Paladins to follow but I must disagree with you on my mount.  I tried a t3 mount and was disappointed in its speed.  I did not think that the extra 8% would make such a big difference but it does.  That t4 mount is worth more than a 20-30pp suit of ebon armor, especially for a guildmaster.  I can harvest faster, get where I am needed to help other guild members faster and quest much faster on that mount than I can without it.  When I am soloing I can escape much faster also.  I like tanking and fighting on horseback, I can see the battlefield and other players much better and it allows me to see adds coming.  Obviously we have the Holy Nag but the Holy Nag is just too slow to be useful.  I talked a t5 gaurdian friend of mine into buying a mount instead of ebon armor and he could not be happier with his mount.  I would not trade my horse for any armor or any item, period, end of story.</P> <P>Earn 35pp in a couple of days legit?  I think not.</P> <P>Ok, something that you naysayers that you have not considered about buying a 20-40pp suit of armor and other items.</P> <P>THE DAY THE EXPANSION SHIPS, YOUR VERY EXPENSIVE SUIT OF ARMOR AND ALL OF YOUR OTHER ITEMS WILL BE COMPLETELY OBSOLETE!:smileysurprised:</P> <P>Something to think about.  Save your platinum for Tier 6, you are going to need it.  If the prices of ebon armor come down to where they should be, around 1-2pp or are already there on your server, by all means buy it if you have the coin.  But please dont spend 35pp on a suit of armor, save your money for t6 or use it for a good shield or Adept III skills which will never be obsolete now that we have mentoring.</P> <P>One another note, I will be putting together a raid to kill Emporer Fyst (the last part of the Grozmag Trainer Heritage quest on Zek) on Lucan Dlere sometime this week, hopefully tonight :smileyvery-happy:</P><p>Message Edited by BlackWeb on <span class=date_text>04-18-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:07 AM</span>

[Miracole]

<span><blockquote><hr>BlackWeb wrote:<div></div> <div></div> <blockquote> <hr> Miracole wrote:<span> <blockquote> <hr> BlackWeb wrote: <div>I have noticed a disturbing trend among my brother and sister high-level Paladins. They all seem to think they need rare (legendary) armor and weapons to survive.  I am a blue-collar warrior.  I have never owned any rare armor.  I doubt I will ever own any rare armor.  It is too expensive for too little additonal benefit.  pristine forged fulginate vangaurd (carbonite or feyiron) is very good armor and 1/20 the cost.  For a few extra gold you can have your curiass and greaves imbued.  Armorers are happy to sell you normal pristine armor.  You can go directly to an armorer and make a deal for a full set of pristine normal vangaurd armor for whatever tier you are playing at for a fraction of the cost of rare armor.  You can get a full set of pristine forged fulginate vangaurd armor for about 30g.  A full set of prstine forged ebon vangaurd plate is 20-30pp.  If you are wearing a full suit of pristine Ebon armor you are either in an extremely wealthy guild, have very generous friends, are an uber-successful artisan, very lucky at finding rares or you are feeding real life coin to botters.</div> <div> </div> <div>If you are going to invest in a rare item, invest in a rare kite shield.  You will get much greater defensive benefit for much less coin than rare armor.  If you are going to buy a rare weapon, get a rare long sword.  Pristine normal material greatswords do plenty of damage, a rare is just a status symbol and a waste of coin.  Invest your coin in skill upgrades, not rare armor.  Skill upgrades will provide much greater benefit for less coin than rare armor.   You do not need a full set of rare elite items to be an elite player.  You can be a working-class Paladin and still be a great Paladin.  Playing well in normal armor is a greater challenge and shows greater skill those who turn to the next tier and instantly show up wearing a full set of brand-new elite rare (legendary) items.</div> <div> </div> <div> </div> <div> </div> <hr> </blockquote>says mr. T4 (or 3, whatever, the 40% horse) horse with a guild lvl of no more than 10.that's 9 plat you blew on a horse when you could have treated yourself to 2 pieces of imbued ebon armor. i don't understand how you can spend all yoursavings on something you shouldn't even use in combat instead of the stuff that keeps you alive....and, ANDcome here and *$%#&! about people who save all their money for some decent armor....sigh... web, i just don't understand you...</span> <div></div> <hr> </blockquote> <p>Wildon, you are a great player and a great Paladin, you have my respect.  You are a stronger Paladin than me but I am strong for my level.  I believe you set a good example for all Paladins to follow but I must disagree with you on my mount.  I tried a t3 mount and was disappointed in its speed.  I did not think that the extra 8% would make such a big difference but it does.  That t4 mount is worth more than a 20-30pp suit of ebon armor, especially for a guildmaster.  I can harvest faster, get where I am needed to help other guild members faster and quest much faster on that mount than I can without it.  When I am soloing I can escape much faster also.  I like tanking and fighting on horseback, I can see the battlefield and other players much better and it allows me to see adds coming.  Obviously we have the Holy Nag but the Holy Nag is just too slow to be useful.  I talked a t5 gaurdian friend of mine into buying a mount instead of ebon armor and he could not be happier with his mount.  I would not trade my horse for any armor or any item, period, end of story.</p> <p>Earn 35pp in a couple of days legit?  I think not.</p> <p>Ok, something that you naysayers that you have not considered about buying a 20-40pp suit of armor and other items.</p> <p>THE DAY THE EXPANSION SHIPS, YOUR VERY EXPENSIVE SUIT OF ARMOR AND ALL OF YOUR OTHER ITEMS WILL BE COMPLETELY OBSOLETE!:smileysurprised:</p> <p>Something to think about.  Save your platinum for Tier 6, you are going to need it.  If the prices of ebon armor come down to where they should be, around 1-2pp or are already there on your server, by all means buy it if you have the coin.  But please dont spend 35pp on a suit of armor, save your money for t6 or use it for a good shield or Adept III skills which will never be obsolete now that we have mentoring.</p> <p>One another note, I will be putting together a raid to kill Emporer Fyst (the last part of the Grozmag Trainer Heritage quest on Zek) on Lucan Dlere sometime this week, hopefully tonight :smileyvery-happy:</p><p>Message Edited by BlackWeb on <span class="date_text">04-18-2005</span> <span class="time_text">09:07 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote>you are cool man. i'm just playing : )</span><div></div>

[MeridianR]

<span><blockquote><hr>BlackWeb wrote:<div></div> <div></div> <blockquote> <hr> Miracole wrote:<span> <blockquote> <hr> BlackWeb wrote: <div>I have noticed a disturbing trend among my brother and sister high-level Paladins. They all seem to think they need rare (legendary) armor and weapons to survive.  I am a blue-collar warrior.  I have never owned any rare armor.  I doubt I will ever own any rare armor.  It is too expensive for too little additonal benefit.  pristine forged fulginate vangaurd (carbonite or feyiron) is very good armor and 1/20 the cost.  For a few extra gold you can have your curiass and greaves imbued.  Armorers are happy to sell you normal pristine armor.  You can go directly to an armorer and make a deal for a full set of pristine normal vangaurd armor for whatever tier you are playing at for a fraction of the cost of rare armor.  You can get a full set of pristine forged fulginate vangaurd armor for about 30g.  A full set of prstine forged ebon vangaurd plate is 20-30pp.  If you are wearing a full suit of pristine Ebon armor you are either in an extremely wealthy guild, have very generous friends, are an uber-successful artisan, very lucky at finding rares or you are feeding real life coin to botters.</div> <div> </div> <div>If you are going to invest in a rare item, invest in a rare kite shield.  You will get much greater defensive benefit for much less coin than rare armor.  If you are going to buy a rare weapon, get a rare long sword.  Pristine normal material greatswords do plenty of damage, a rare is just a status symbol and a waste of coin.  Invest your coin in skill upgrades, not rare armor.  Skill upgrades will provide much greater benefit for less coin than rare armor.   You do not need a full set of rare elite items to be an elite player.  You can be a working-class Paladin and still be a great Paladin.  Playing well in normal armor is a greater challenge and shows greater skill those who turn to the next tier and instantly show up wearing a full set of brand-new elite rare (legendary) items.</div> <div> </div> <div> </div> <div> </div> <hr> </blockquote>says mr. T4 (or 3, whatever, the 40% horse) horse with a guild lvl of no more than 10.that's 9 plat you blew on a horse when you could have treated yourself to 2 pieces of imbued ebon armor. i don't understand how you can spend all yoursavings on something you shouldn't even use in combat instead of the stuff that keeps you alive....and, ANDcome here and *$%#&! about people who save all their money for some decent armor....sigh... web, i just don't understand you...</span> <div></div> <hr> </blockquote> <p>Wildon, you are a great player and a great Paladin, you have my respect.  You are a stronger Paladin than me but I am strong for my level.  I believe you set a good example for all Paladins to follow but I must disagree with you on my mount.  I tried a t3 mount and was disappointed in its speed.  I did not think that the extra 8% would make such a big difference but it does.  That t4 mount is worth more than a 20-30pp suit of ebon armor, especially for a guildmaster.  I can harvest faster, get where I am needed to help other guild members faster and quest much faster on that mount than I can without it.  When I am soloing I can escape much faster also.  I like tanking and fighting on horseback, I can see the battlefield and other players much better and it allows me to see adds coming.  Obviously we have the Holy Nag but the Holy Nag is just too slow to be useful.  I talked a t5 gaurdian friend of mine into buying a mount instead of ebon armor and he could not be happier with his mount.  I would not trade my horse for any armor or any item, period, end of story.</p> <p>Earn 35pp in a couple of days legit?  I think not.</p> <p>Ok, something that you naysayers that you have not considered about buying a 20-40pp suit of armor and other items.</p> <p>THE DAY THE EXPANSION SHIPS, YOUR VERY EXPENSIVE SUIT OF ARMOR AND ALL OF YOUR OTHER ITEMS WILL BE COMPLETELY OBSOLETE!:smileysurprised:</p> <p>Something to think about.  Save your platinum for Tier 6, you are going to need it.  If the prices of ebon armor come down to where they should be, around 1-2pp or are already there on your server, by all means buy it if you have the coin.  But please dont spend 35pp on a suit of armor, save your money for t6 or use it for a good shield or Adept III skills which will never be obsolete now that we have mentoring.</p> <p><b>One another note, I will be putting together a raid to kill Emporer Fyst (the last part of the Grozmag Trainer Heritage quest on Zek) on Lucan Dlere sometime this week, hopefully tonight :smileyvery-happy:</b></p><p>Message Edited by BlackWeb on <span class="date_text">04-18-2005</span> <span class="time_text">09:07 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote>The SBS Kite Shield is well worth the pain in the *$%#&! that DFC is....good luck. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />   </span><div></div>

[BlackW]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> MeridianR wrote:<BR><SPAN><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> </BLOCKQUOTE>The SBS Kite Shield is well worth the pain in the *$%#&! that DFC is....good luck. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />   <BR></SPAN> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>The server crashed just as we were about to kill Emporer Fyst <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[MeridianR]

<span><blockquote><hr>BlackWeb wrote: <blockquote> <hr> MeridianR wrote:<span> <blockquote> </blockquote>The SBS Kite Shield is well worth the pain in the *$%#&! that DFC is....good luck. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />   </span> <div></div> <hr> </blockquote> <div>The server crashed just as we were about to kill Emporer Fyst <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div><hr></blockquote>Doh, well that stinks. When we went in, we had an issue where we couldn't get to the room where Fyst was....after a /petition from a couple people in my raid group we had a CSR come and help us out with our issue. Was very happy after that Heritage was done...lol, thankfully I was able to solo Trial 4, since another guildie of ours can't, and she is having an issue where we can't help her finish, since we port into another instance... <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></span><div></div>

[Titali]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> JarredDarque wrote:<BR> <DIV>Sanjun</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>there is a Masxter Armorer Volume drop that contains recipes for rubicite armor, it outshines the Master Dropped T5 gear.  I dont know what it looks like,  color or anything, but that may be what that guard was wearing,  I know that the big raid guild on our server has the book,  and their armorer,  a 50/50 SK, armorer.....thats just wrong <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />   an SK with that stuff.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>i saw a zerker on our server last night with the bp jarred. it had like 650ac 50hp and the usual other stats, just like 15+ to them. the look is bright silver/chrome. it blinds you <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><edit></DIV> <DIV>and in response to what this thread is about. people use rare armor because they want to be better. its that simple. if i am in full ebon, and you are in fulginate, guess what? im a better tank, and sinec im a tank, i think being the best i can be is important. equipment makes that possible, not silly horses. cedar is cheap in comparison to ebon, so you cant realy cmopare that. aside from the fact that SBS is better (imo) piece by piece i am upgrading my fulginate to ebon because its expensive. they should really put in some late game AQs, SS/Kael/Thurg style, maybe a set from sol, a set from perma or something who knows. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>in response to the guy who was comparing his fulginate to someone elses ebons at 41.... check that at 50 and then come back.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>ps. without being too arrogant, harhar, i recognize that good armor doesnt make the player, but when i can play my class well, and i have better equipment, i will be more efficient than someone who doesnt.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Titaliss on <span class=date_text>04-19-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:22 AM</span>

[GilfalasElaandrin]

<DIV> <P></P> <HR> Ok, something that you naysayers that you have not considered about buying a 20-40pp suit of armor and other items. <P>THE DAY THE EXPANSION SHIPS, YOUR VERY EXPENSIVE SUIT OF ARMOR AND ALL OF YOUR OTHER ITEMS WILL BE COMPLETELY OBSOLETE!<IMG height=16 src="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif" width=16 border=0></P> <HR> <P>So you dropped 9 plat on a horse and have the gall to come here and call yourself a blue collar paladin? I am a level 48 weaponsmith, almost 49 and I have 4 Plat to my name. One night of producing abotu 100 weaopns to try to level burns about 1.2 plat in fuel costs ALONE. So while I have some nice coin, I cannot actually go and SPEND it untill I am level 50, and then I will be out of capitol to make waepons with.</P> <P>If your level 40 ish and can blow 9 plat on a HORSE, AFTER buying a lower tier horse and returning it (and losing a significant part of the purchase price) I hardly call you 'blue collar'.</P> <P>As for gear being obsoletet when/if the level expansion hits? I'll worry about that when I get to that level. In the meantime I will continue to spend my money on what I think is important to <EM>me</EM>.</P> <P>YOU chose a horse. I choose the gear I use. Just like any tradesmen or craftsman wants the best tools for his job so do I. I think that my armor and weapons and jewelry helps substantially. You think your horse does.</P> <P>To each their own. But please, don;t come here and denigrate others who play differently. Some might view dropping 9 plat on a horse as silly as dropping 9 plat on armor. In the end both peopel dropped 9 plat on STUFF that made them happy. Why insult the other if they are having a fun time?</P></DIV> <P>Message Edited by GilfalasElaandrin on <SPAN class=date_text>04-19-2005</SPAN><SPAN class=time_text>01:46 PM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by GilfalasElaandrin on <span class=date_text>04-19-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:46 PM</span>

[Seek]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> BlackWeb wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> MeridianR wrote:<BR><SPAN><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> </BLOCKQUOTE>The SBS Kite Shield is well worth the pain in the *$%#&! that DFC is....good luck. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />   <BR></SPAN> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>The server crashed just as we were about to kill Emporer Fyst <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>hehe that sucks, the raid i was in had just completed it and we were all stood at the exit when the server went down <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[FatSlug]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Zotar99 wrote:<BR>I am still relatively low level (2<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> and am still wearing my pristine carbonite armor that I bought when I turned 20.<BR><BR>I primarily solo, although I do tank for guild groups on occasions.  Perhaps it changes at higher level, but I am not sure that my armor matters all that much since only rarely do mobs get through my Demonstration of Faith ward unless I am out of power.   <BR><BR>I recently got a new ward, Faithful Zeal, but it isn't as good as DoF Adept III yet and I can't afford an Adept III upgrade for it yet (is Adept III FZ as useful as DoF Adept III has been?).  At high level, do Paladins still rely heavily on their ward?<BR><BR>I can see that, in groups, armor would be important as I usually take more damage than my ward can handle.  But my ward is enough to handle most solo mobs I fight -- since 27 I have started bashing on the 30-31 orcs just outside the port in Zek.<BR><BR>I don't plan to get rare armor any time soon unless I happen upon it.  My current plan is to get a new set of armor made for me when I turn 30 -- whatever the regular armor for that level is (feyiron?).<BR><BR>I didn't do any of the AQs.<BR><BR><BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>For the record quested armour at level 30 is easy and pretty good. Zek has a dead easy quest for a plate ( think it's called ebon something ) which is level 29+ and I completed at level 27 ( so had to wait to wear it) and at level 30 I have done the new quests up to getting the valewatcher boots ( so that's helm, boots (these outlast dwarfen) and legs). With that combined with AQ shoulders and bracers and some crappy gloves ( light armour - lol&nbsp<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> which I wear because I have a wierd bug with gauntlets which annoy the hell out of me - I can survive very well in EL. Definatly don't need some rare or even crafted armour.</DIV>

[Xlap]

<P>just wanted to say this. my 25 pally is in a full set of steel armor with imbuments, he has an imbued ring, he has a full set of blue+ jewelry, an imbued carbonite sword, and an imbued fir shield. he has a full set of feysteel waiting for him, he has an oak shield being made, im getting a guildie to make a complete set of crafted jewelry, and im getting a guildie to make him an imbued feyiron longsword. and guess what, ive done all this while spending less than 2p</P> <P>i got the set of steel mostly for free because an armorer i know suddenly came into  5p and decided to spread the wealth. i got 2 pieces of free feysteel, got another 2 pieces for 25g total, and got the other 3 for 47g total. the oak i got  for the shield i got for 6g from the same armorer friend, and all the sparkling/glimmering items have cost less than 20g total. and guess what, my main is a level 44 conjuror and is a 22 alchemist. i DONT make a lot of cash, all the money i have and have spent is from never vendoring rare drops. they'll eventually sell. at some point someone will want it. in fact, my conjuror has 5 t4 adept3s and spent oh, about 2p for them, which is great considering the going price for one opal/ruthenium when i got them was 90g/1plat. between both my characters i have about 1pp, and that's really because doing quests in lavastorm/permafrost netted me well over 1pp (very near 2) in 2 days. when i finish paying for the jewelry for my pally im gonna make him self-sustaining, and guess what, ill do the same for him i did with my main, in that ill make decent cash from quests and drops, and my conjuror will get his 3 tier5 adept3s i deem very important...then ill just save up for any masters i see. </P> <P> </P> <P>the reason i got all this for my pally is because i wanted to know what it felt like to have the best at that level, because when my conjuror was that level he had to scrimp and save for everything he wanted, now that the cash is flowing more i decided to see what it felt like to be privileged at the lower levels. now the ebon, my pally will definately have to get himself, because even at the 2p i regularly see them at t's just way too much for my conjuror atm</P>

[Rr]

<div></div>Getting rares isn't all that difficult my main is a hair's bredth from 44, and I've already twinked out my dirge with a full set of Steel Chainmail, Two pristine steel leafblades. That was in addition to a full set of gold jewelry, and whatever else would last him till lvl 30.  The alt is lvl 29 and I have 5 pieces of pristine feysteel (the rare) chainmail waiting for him. Looking at my broker, I've made a total of less than 4pp. I do not do any tradeskills really, lvl 17 outfitter I think. No I don't have any ebon for my main, but I'm wearing almost af ull suit of the orclord's armor from DFC, and useing a The Heart Reaver (2-hander from a guildie). Honestly, unless you're wearing rare armor, your best bet is going to be good quest armor. None of my main's armor in is player made. All in all, rare harvest drops are easy to get between raid drops and your own harvesting. Just make sure you get all your skills up before you move to the next tier. You'll get more than one rare every two weeks, if I actualyl try, I can get two a week (from either foresting, trapping, gathering, or mining). <div></div><p>Message Edited by Rrin on <span class=date_text>04-21-2005</span> <span class=time_text>03:32 AM</span>

[Siphar]

<P>the markets sure are very different from server to server and well i just wanted to add my views on the tier 5 armour. </P> <P>I have a full set of pristine ebon, ebbc and pretty much the best everything thats player made including the charger horse,  4 pristine imbued ruby rings one for each stat effect when cast and around 20 plat in the bank.</P> <P>Fact: my artisan is lvl 18</P> <P>Fact: it took me around 2-3 weeks and from lvl 42-50 to get all this</P> <P>Fact: i have 4 master spells, while the rest are adept 3</P> <P>Fact: There ''is'' a big difference between normal and ebon armour (especially in resist) and as some people already pointed out, you need high resists to raid effectively.</P> <P>Fact: I didn't use any kind of exploit</P> <P>Fact: I harvested and bought all my ebon / gear through trader and harvest</P> <P>Fact: It takes time and a little elbow grease and yes lots of time harvesting.</P> <P>Fact: there are too many people expecting the ''rare'' stuff for free and easy to get. It's supposed to be ''rare'' hence the name. So everyone is not supposed to have it or it wouldn't be called lengendary. </P> <P>Fact: Don't be jealous (which is a sin remember) of other people who: -</P> <P>a). have friends that give them stuff</P> <P>b). have enough free-time to waste harvesting like me</P> <P>c). have a rich guild who provides for them</P> <P> </P> <P>I personally left my last two guilds because of teh ''needy'' people out there that log on and just want free hand out in teh form of half price ebon and freebie rhodium etc.</P> <P>Fact: Congrats to all the people that worked hard and kitted themselfs out and not depended on other people.. enough respect to you people.</P> <P>Last Fact: If you played EQ1 (or other online games) you will have a much better understanding of EQ2 and how to make cash at the end, for example logging on after servers coming up and killing all the named is the oldest and perhaps most effective money maker in the game.</P> <P> </P> <P>Knowledge is power my paladin friends, dont be jealous of those who have more, learn from them...</P> <P> </P> <P>Ach 50th pally </P> <P> </P><p>Message Edited by Siphar on <span class=date_text>04-20-2005</span> <span class=time_text>07:40 AM</span>

[Siphar]

<P>double post - my apologies</P><p>Message Edited by Siphar on <span class=date_text>04-20-2005</span> <span class=time_text>07:39 AM</span>

[Miracole]

<span><blockquote><hr>Siphar wrote:<div></div> <div></div> <p>the markets sure are very different from server to server and well i just wanted to add my views on the tier 5 armour. </p> <p>I have a full set of pristine ebon, ebbc and pretty much the best everything thats player made including the charger horse,  4 pristine imbued ruby rings one for each stat effect when cast and around 20 plat in the bank.</p> <p>Fact: my artisan is lvl 18</p> <p>Fact: it took me around 2-3 weeks and from lvl 42-50 to get all this</p> <p>Fact: i have 4 master spells, while the rest are adept 3</p> <p>Fact: There ''is'' a big difference between normal and ebon armour (especially in resist) and as some people already pointed out, you need high resists to raid effectively.</p> <p>Fact: I didn't use any kind of exploit</p> <p>Fact: I harvested and bought all my ebon / gear through trader and harvest</p> <p>Fact: It takes time and a little elbow grease and yes lots of time harvesting.</p> <p>Fact: there are too many people expecting the ''rare'' stuff for free and easy to get. It's supposed to be ''rare'' hence the name. So everyone is not supposed to have it or it wouldn't be called lengendary. </p> <p>Fact: Don't be jealous (which is a sin remember) of other people who: -</p> <p>a). have friends that give them stuff</p> <p>b). have enough free-time to waste harvesting like me</p> <p>c). have a rich guild who provides for them</p> <p>I personally left my last two guilds because of teh ''needy'' people out there that log on and just want free hand out in teh form of half price ebon and freebie rhodium etc.</p> <p>Fact: Congrats to all the people that worked hard and kitted themselfs out and not depended on other people.. enough respect to you people.</p> <p>Last Fact: If you played EQ1 (or other online games) you will have a much better understanding of EQ2 and how to make cash at the end, for example logging on after servers coming up and killing all the named is the oldest and perhaps most effective money maker in the game.</p> <p>Knowledge is power my paladin friends, dont be jealous of those who have more, learn from them...</p> <p>Ach 50th pally </p> <p>Message Edited by Siphar on <span class="date_text">04-20-2005</span> <span class="time_text">07:40 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote>you leech, blood sucker, vampire!! just kidding. i respect people who make it on their own. i harvested all my ebons so i know, it's a pain in the asssss. i harvest for hours at a time in feerrott ever since most thing greyed out to me there, and *$%#&! those ebon clusters don't come easy. yeah</span><div></div>

[jshari]

<P>nice post i agree. i am also a blue collar pally, i am the poorest lvl 33 i know. i got 5 gold currently hehe   i think its becuse i dont have alot of time like very1 else</P> <P>im ghetto pally 4real</P>

[BlackW]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> jshariat wrote:<BR> <P>nice post i agree. i am also a blue collar pally, i am the poorest lvl 33 i know. i got 5 gold currently hehe   i think its becuse i dont have alot of time like very1 else</P> <P>im ghetto pally 4real</P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Forget everything I said.  Check this out:</P> <P><A href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/news_archive.vm?id=457&section=News&month=current" target=_blank>http://eq2players.station.sony.com/news_archive.vm?id=457&section=News&month=current</A></P> <P>Looks like SOE is throwing in the towel on legit play.  I guess that the botters are just too hard to stop.   I was hoping that the prices of rares would come down.  That will never happen now.</P> <P>Feel free to spend as much as you want on Ebon, I dont think the prices are going to come down.  </P>

[Karlen]

>>>For the record quested armour at level 30 is easy and pretty good. Zek has a dead easy quest for a plate ( think it's called ebon something ) which is level 29+ and I completed at level 27 ( so had to wait to wear it) and at level 30 I have done the new quests up to getting the valewatcher boots ( so that's helm, boots (these outlast dwarfen) and legs).<<< Who do I talk to to get that quest for plate?  <div></div>

[Miracole]

<span><blockquote><hr>Zotar99 wrote:>>>For the record quested armour at level 30 is easy and pretty good. Zek has a dead easy quest for a plate ( think it's called ebon something ) which is level 29+ and I completed at level 27 ( so had to wait to wear it) and at level 30 I have done the new quests up to getting the valewatcher boots ( so that's helm, boots (these outlast dwarfen) and legs).<<< Who do I talk to to get that quest for plate?  <div></div><hr></blockquote>that little gnome dude near the tent right on the dock.</span><div></div>

[Karlen]

Thanks!<div></div>

[BlackW]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Zotar99 wrote:<BR>>>>For the record quested armour at level 30 is easy and pretty good. Zek has a dead easy quest for a plate ( think it's called ebon something ) which is level 29+ and I completed at level 27 ( so had to wait to wear it) and at level 30 I have done the new quests up to getting the valewatcher boots ( so that's helm, boots (these outlast dwarfen) and legs).<<<<BR><BR>Who do I talk to to get that quest for plate?  <BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>It is better to use quested armor in tier4 than rare armor.   If you want rare armor, save your coin and buy it in tier5 and then you may only need 2 or 3 pieces of prisitine imbued or forged ebon vangaurd armor as there is a lot of good quested armor in tier5.   </P> <P>I am working on a second high-elf Paladin.  I am investing in Adept III skills rather than expensive armor and weapons.   The only rares I am using are a rare kite shield and a rare long sword.   I can tell you with certainty that Adept III skills are of greater benefit to your Paladin than rare armor and jewelry.  Keep your mining skills maxed and keep mining for rare precious stones and metals at each tier.  Have those you can find or purchase made into Adept III skills by a good Alchemist. </P> <P>Keep all your harvesting skills maxed (except maybe fishing, I am not a big fan of swimming in eq2).   Find a provisioner who is leveling up, harvest lots of food and give it to him.  He will appreciate the help with harvesting and make you high or superior satiation food free or at a discount.   Keep mining, trapping and gathering at each tier.   Have the rares you find made into things you need, sell them or use them in crafting.   Keep all of what you harvest and sell it from your house vault.  A lot of artisans prefer to buy rather than harvest their raw materials.  A few copper or silver for normal harvestables may not seem worth it but if you keep harvesting and selling, it adds up.</P> <p>Message Edited by BlackWeb on <span class=date_text>04-29-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:40 AM</span>

[lisasdarr]

I'd just like to make a point that having rare armour or lots of coin doesn't mean you are cheating. I have made 4-5 plat so far in my time playing EQ2, I am currently level 24. I have bought 6 out of 7 bits of feysteel ready for armour when i hit 30, i already have a oak imbued shield, I have not bought Plat and never will, I don't make money through tradeskilling, I am the highest level in a small guild and have given more to guildies than I have recieved. I have made 2 plat selling on the broker, 2 plat selling 2 of the 3 'Sword of Thunder' quest starters i have found and the rest, however much, from selling junk to merchants. I am taking my time, I play more than my guildies who i don't want to outlevel too fast, and we are all leveling on Quest XP alone so we can do as many quests as possible at each level (I am well past 500 quests already). his means that I can happily spend several hours of play just killing things to see if i can get some loot to sell. There are plenty of ways to make good money, if I don't have a full suit of Ebon ready for me when I reach level 40 I will be very suprised, though that probably won't be for another 4-6 months.

[BlackW]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> lisasdarren wrote:<BR>I'd just like to make a point that having rare armour or lots of coin doesn't mean you are cheating. I have made 4-5 plat so far in my time playing EQ2, I am currently level 24. <BR><BR>I have bought 6 out of 7 bits of feysteel ready for armour when i hit 30, i already have a oak imbued shield, I have not bought Plat and never will, I don't make money through tradeskilling, I am the highest level in a small guild and have given more to guildies than I have recieved.<BR><BR>I have made 2 plat selling on the broker, 2 plat selling 2 of the 3 'Sword of Thunder' quest starters i have found and the rest, however much, from selling junk to merchants.<BR><BR>I am taking my time, I play more than my guildies who i don't want to outlevel too fast, and we are all leveling on Quest XP alone so we can do as many quests as possible at each level (I am well past 500 quests already). his means that I can happily spend several hours of play just killing things to see if i can get some loot to sell.<BR><BR>There are plenty of ways to make good money, if I don't have a full suit of Ebon ready for me when I reach level 40 I will be very suprised, though that probably won't be for another 4-6 months.<BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Be careful about price gouging.  You can make a lot of ppl, especially artisans really mad doing that.    Try to charge at, just above or just below market prices for items.  If you dont know what the market price is, ask in the trading or crafting channel <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[MeridianR]

<span><blockquote><hr>BlackWeb wrote: <blockquote> <hr> lisasdarren wrote:I'd just like to make a point that having rare armour or lots of coin doesn't mean you are cheating. I have made 4-5 plat so far in my time playing EQ2, I am currently level 24. I have bought 6 out of 7 bits of feysteel ready for armour when i hit 30, i already have a oak imbued shield, I have not bought Plat and never will, I don't make money through tradeskilling, I am the highest level in a small guild and have given more to guildies than I have recieved.I have made 2 plat selling on the broker, 2 plat selling 2 of the 3 'Sword of Thunder' quest starters i have found and the rest, however much, from selling junk to merchants.I am taking my time, I play more than my guildies who i don't want to outlevel too fast, and we are all leveling on Quest XP alone so we can do as many quests as possible at each level (I am well past 500 quests already). his means that I can happily spend several hours of play just killing things to see if i can get some loot to sell.There are plenty of ways to make good money, if I don't have a full suit of Ebon ready for me when I reach level 40 I will be very suprised, though that probably won't be for another 4-6 months. <hr> </blockquote>Be careful about price gouging.  You can make a lot of ppl, especially artisans really mad doing that.    Try to charge at, just above or just below market prices for items.  If you dont know what the market price is, ask in the trading or crafting channel <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <div></div><hr></blockquote>What I do when I get ready to sell a rare, a rare adept, some drop I can't use etc, is this. Look at what others are selling for...in the event of a rare adept in which there are non, look for say an Apprentice III or IV...if nothing at all, I put up for 8-10g, nothing more, nothing less....they normally sell right away like that...if there are AppIV's selling for say 3g, then I will sell it for 4-5g, since really are Adept I's that much better then App IV's? For rares, it normally depends on the market...I will take how many ever there is, and average them...normally I will throw out the highest and lowest price, and then do it that way...if I am just looking to make a quick sell, I use the Traders/Crafters channel, since you can get sales much quicker that way, and normally I charge whatever the lowest price on the brooker is minus x (where x is some number I come up with..lol) Example: Ruthenium Cluster on Brooker - lowest is for 75g I will sell for 65-70g....the buyer if looking on the brooker is getting a better deal, but yet you are deal making out decent since the brooker adds in the 20% fee....so you both make out...unless the buyer wants to go to where the seller is selling, and then they get the lower price...but more often then not, this doesn't happen. For Drops, I normally again use the brooker, unless they have no stats, then I just vendor trash them...... This is all after I ask in guildchat if anyone needs what I am selling first....and then I just normally tell the person it's there's, or to give me what they want for it <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></span><div></div>

[uzhiel feathered serpe]

<P>Hmn...some of the assumptions are sort of disturbing..</P> <P>For example, in my server a full set of ebon costs about 10 to 12 plat..some pieces are only 1.5 plat...so ebon armor is dictated by the server economy in many instances.</P> <P>Also, my armor is half fabled/half legendary. My Boots, Bracers, Shield, and one handed Sword are Fabled items. The rest is pristine Ebon. Did my guild help me? of course..but only on the fabled armor, and it didnt come cheap...as of yesterday I had over 90 raids and a little over 130 deaths. Most of my ebon I either bought or harvested. U can find ebon for 1.5 plat in my server quite often. My 1st ever ebon was a shaped coin I bought on the black market for 40 gold! I have 4 hex dolls now, with figwart I have harvested myself or bought. </P> <P>Its hard to harvest, but if you keep your eyes open there are ALWAYS bargains to be had on the broker.</P> <P>By the way, almost every attack skill I have is adept III or master I, from my harvested rubies or bargains on broker.</P> <P>Im a lvl 25 tailor, so no im not making money by Tradeskilling. Rubies can be had for 70 gold, which is a almost nothing. A lvl 40 + player can make 70 gold in about 2 to 3 good days of adventuring. NONE of this is provided to me by my guild, and it is a lvl 26 guild. Having good gear can be the difference between people calling you a decent tank and calling you a GREAT tank, because like it or not, gear does make a difference.</P> <P><U>"If you are wearing a full suit of pristine Ebon armor you are either in an extremely wealthy guild, have very generous friends, are an uber-successful artisan, very lucky at finding rares or you are feeding real life coin to botters."</U></P> <P>How about a caveat like a HARD working, dedicated player. I didnt get my gear overnight. It took a long time adventuring and harvesting to get where I am...not by being "lucky" with harvesting. I was patient and spent my coin well.</P> <P><U>"I have noticed a disturbing trend among my brother and sister high-level Paladins. They all seem to think they need rare (legendary) armor and weapons to survive.  I am a blue-collar warrior.  I have never owned any rare armor.  I doubt I will ever own any rare armor.  It is too expensive for too little additonal benefit. "</U></P> <P>The difference between a full set of legendary and a full set of fulginate is HARDLY a little additional benefit. I see my benefits every day when I'm either raiding or helping the lower lvl guildies finish quests and exp. </P> <P><U>"Playing well in normal armor is a greater challenge and shows greater skill those who turn to the next tier and instantly show up wearing a full set of brand-new elite rare (legendary) items."</U></P> <P>I will be honest with this one. I disagree wholeheartedly. MOBS are trying to kill you. You are 1 part of 6 in a grp or 1 part of 12 to 24 on a raid. Its a team effort. Gear for a tank is like spells for a wizard. it is your DUTY to have the BEST possible gear, because your JOB is to TANK. Having average gear or great gear is the difference between life and death...not only for you, but for those people depending on you.</P> <P>Its ok to have average gear, but you should always strive to improve your character.</P> <P>Uzhiel, lvl 50 Paladin/ 25 Tailor, Eternal Chaos, Faydark.</P> <P> </P> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P><p>Message Edited by uzhiel feathered serpent on <span class=date_text>05-03-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:15 AM</span>

[BlackW]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> uzhiel feathered serpent wrote:<BR> <P>Hmn...some of the assumptions are sort of disturbing..</P> <P>For example, in my server a full set of ebon costs about 10 to 12 plat..some pieces are only 1.5 plat...so ebon armor is dictated by the server economy in many instances.</P> <P>Also, my armor is half fabled/half legendary. My Boots, Bracers, Shield, and one handed Sword are Fabled items. The rest is pristine Ebon. Did my guild help me? of course..but only on the fabled armor, and it didnt come cheap...as of yesterday I had over 90 raids and a little over 130 deaths. Most of my ebon I either bought or harvested. U can find ebon for 1.5 plat in my server quite often. My 1st ever ebon was a shaped coin I bought on the black market for 40 gold! I have 4 hex dolls now, with figwart I have harvested myself or bought. </P> <P>Its hard to harvest, but if you keep your eyes open there are ALWAYS bargains to be had on the broker.</P> <P>By the way, almost every attack skill I have is adept III or master I, from my harvested rubies or bargains on broker.</P> <P>Im a lvl 25 tailor, so no im not making money by Tradeskilling. Rubies can be had for 70 gold, which is a almost nothing. A lvl 40 + player can make 70 gold in about 2 to 3 good days of adventuring. NONE of this is provided to me by my guild, and it is a lvl 26 guild. Having good gear can be the difference between people calling you a decent tank and calling you a GREAT tank, because like it or not, gear does make a difference.</P> <P><U>"If you are wearing a full suit of pristine Ebon armor you are either in an extremely wealthy guild, have very generous friends, are an uber-successful artisan, very lucky at finding rares or you are feeding real life coin to botters."</U></P> <P>How about a caveat like a HARD working, dedicated player. I didnt get my gear overnight. It took a long time adventuring and harvesting to get where I am...not by being "lucky" with harvesting. I was patient and spent my coin well.</P> <P><U>"I have noticed a disturbing trend among my brother and sister high-level Paladins. They all seem to think they need rare (legendary) armor and weapons to survive.  I am a blue-collar warrior.  I have never owned any rare armor.  I doubt I will ever own any rare armor.  It is too expensive for too little additonal benefit. "</U></P> <P>The difference between a full set of legendary and a full set of fulginate is HARDLY a little additional benefit. I see my benefits every day when I'm either raiding or helping the lower lvl guildies finish quests and exp. </P> <P><U>"Playing well in normal armor is a greater challenge and shows greater skill those who turn to the next tier and instantly show up wearing a full set of brand-new elite rare (legendary) items."</U></P> <P>I will be honest with this one. I disagree wholeheartedly. MOBS are trying to kill you. You are 1 part of 6 in a grp or 1 part of 12 to 24 on a raid. Its a team effort. Gear for a tank is like spells for a wizard. it is your DUTY to have the BEST possible gear, because your JOB is to TANK. Having average gear or great gear is the difference between life and death...not only for you, but for those people depending on you.</P> <P>Its ok to have average gear, but you should always strive to improve your character.</P> <P>Uzhiel, lvl 50 Paladin/ 25 Tailor, Eternal Chaos, Faydark.</P> <P> </P> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P> <P>Message Edited by uzhiel feathered serpent on <SPAN class=date_text>05-03-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>09:15 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>The entire station exchange concept invalidates everything I said.  Feel free to get whatever items using coin gained from whatever source whether legitimate or illegitimate that you got it from.   The station exchange concept essentially obliterates the line between legit and illegit so as I said earlier, forget what I said, pay as much as you want for them and dont worry about how you came by the coin to buy them <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[lisasdarr]

<span><blockquote><hr>BlackWeb wrote: Be careful about price gouging.  You can make a lot of ppl, especially artisans really mad doing that.    Try to charge at, just above or just below market prices for items.  If you dont know what the market price is, ask in the trading or crafting channel <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <div></div><hr></blockquote>I don't know where you got the idea that I price gouge from, but the stuff I sell on the broker is generally sold at a reasonable price for the target audience. I believe in selling fast rather than waiting ages to get a good price, If i find something that sells well I will charge more for it, when something doesn't sell the price is lower. If you are thinking about the Sword of Thunders they were sold at a price suited to the target audience, those about level 40 who want a EBBC but never got Berik. At 40 a plat is a reasonable price I feel.</span><div></div>

[BlackW]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> lisasdarren wrote:<BR><SPAN><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> BlackWeb wrote:<BR><BR>Be careful about price gouging.  You can make a lot of ppl, especially artisans really mad doing that.    Try to charge at, just above or just below market prices for items.  If you dont know what the market price is, ask in the trading or crafting channel <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>I don't know where you got the idea that I price gouge from, but the stuff I sell on the broker is generally sold at a reasonable price for the target audience. I believe in selling fast rather than waiting ages to get a good price, If i find something that sells well I will charge more for it, when something doesn't sell the price is lower.<BR><BR>If you are thinking about the Sword of Thunders they were sold at a price suited to the target audience, those about level 40 who want a EBBC but never got Berik. At 40 a plat is a reasonable price I feel.<BR></SPAN> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I did not say you price gouge.  Some artisans can be overly sensitive about pricing.   Personally, I think you should charge as much as you can get.   That may upset some.   My sincere apologies if I have offended you brother Paladin.

[Plague Mast]

<DIV>I think it is incredibly small minded of these people that accuse anyone in rare gear to be buying from botters.  Also I heard one guy say that everyone in his guild has 1-2 plat max.  They must be a low level on average, because it is very easy to accumulate over 2 plat by level 35.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I currently have chest, leg, shoulder, and head ebon armor on my 42 paly, and enough coin to buy one more cluster.  I am a 43 armorer and made my own helmet, and had a 50 armorer friend make the rest (i supplied clusters) in exchange for mentoring his level 18 toon (and also because we are friends).  I have all adept 1 spells, but I will be upgrading them eventually.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>How did I make this money?  I bought up rare metals and sold armor made from it.  I looted mobs and sold the loots on the market.  I looked for good deals.  I didn't find a vendor exploit early on or any crap like that.  I made mine the old fasioned way....I EARNED IT.  Until you guys complaining about the have's and have not's spend time leveling a tier 5 crafter you have no right to complain or make accusations of bot buying.  I play this game 40 hours a week easily.  Thats right FORTY.  I think I deserve a tricked out toon, for thats why I play that much.  It is fun putting together a well equipped toon.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Bottom line though, think small, be small.  If you spend all your time trying to make 10 gp, you will have a hard time making 10pp.  Get into crafting, save up and buy a rare and make an item with it.  Sell it for 1.25 x what you paid for the rare, rinse and repeat.   </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Put in the time and effort or don't, but don't give me crap because I chose to...</DIV>

[BlackW]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Plague Master wrote:<BR> <DIV>I think it is incredibly small minded of these people that accuse anyone in rare gear to be buying from botters.  Also I heard one guy say that everyone in his guild has 1-2 plat max.  They must be a low level on average, because it is very easy to accumulate over 2 plat by level 35.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I currently have chest, leg, shoulder, and head ebon armor on my 42 paly, and enough coin to buy one more cluster.  I am a 43 armorer and made my own helmet, and had a 50 armorer friend make the rest (i supplied clusters) in exchange for mentoring his level 18 toon (and also because we are friends).  I have all adept 1 spells, but I will be upgrading them eventually.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>How did I make this money?  I bought up rare metals and sold armor made from it.  I looted mobs and sold the loots on the market.  I looked for good deals.  I didn't find a vendor exploit early on or any crap like that.  I made mine the old fasioned way....I EARNED IT.  Until you guys complaining about the have's and have not's spend time leveling a tier 5 crafter you have no right to complain or make accusations of bot buying.  I play this game 40 hours a week easily.  Thats right FORTY.  I think I deserve a tricked out toon, for thats why I play that much.  It is fun putting together a well equipped toon.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Bottom line though, think small, be small.  If you spend all your time trying to make 10 gp, you will have a hard time making 10pp.  Get into crafting, save up and buy a rare and make an item with it.  Sell it for 1.25 x what you paid for the rare, rinse and repeat.   </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Put in the time and effort or don't, but don't give me crap because I chose to...</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>I meant no offense towards high lvl artisans.  I have the highest respect for successful artisans.  Please rearead the thread.  One of the exceptions I mentioned was high lvl artisans along with those from wealthy guilds or very high lvl alts.  At any rate, it no longer matters.   The station exchanged concept has changed everything.   However, it is a fairly good assumption that a lvl 40 player in full pristine imbued ebon who is not a tier4+ artisan either has some very generous friends or is recieving coin from an outside source.</P> <P>Ebon Clusters have actually gone up on Lucan Dlere.   The last time I checked, they were selling for 3-5p.   For a full suit of pristine ebon that would make the cost around 25pp for a full suit of ebon including imbuing extracts and labor charges for armorers unless they are willing to craft the armor for free.   That does not include jewelry, weapons or skilll essences.   Here is what it would cost to fully equip a tier5 Paladin with rares (these are very conservative esitmates):</P> <P>Armor 3pp x 7 = 21pp + 1.5pp for labor charges and extracts = 22.5pp</P> <P>Imbued Ebon weapons 3pp x 2 = 6pp + 1pp for labor charges and extracts = 7 pp</P> <P>Rare jewelry 1pp X 7 + 50gp for labor and 50gp for extracts = 8pp</P> <P>Imbued Rare Kite shield shield 50gp for Cedar + 20gp for extract and 15gp for labor = 85gp</P> <P>tier5 Adept III skill essences 22 skills X 1pp per rare for each skill + 1pp for labor charges = 23pp</P> <P>The total to fully eqip a tier5 paladin with rares 22.5 + 7 + 8 + 1pp (round up) + 23 pp = 63 pp rounded up by 1</P> <P>This could be reduced significantly through harvesting and crafting some of the items by a high lvl artisan.   Even if it were cut in half, 30+pp is a LOT of legit platinum even for the most successful adventurer or artisan to come up with by lvl 40.   This does not include coin needed for tier3 and 4 items and skills.   There are some nice legendary items available from heritage quests which could also reduce the cost.</P> <P>Could a player actually come up with 30-60pp by lvl 40 and be 100% legit?  I suppose it is possible though highly unlikely.  If that player were a successful tier5 artisan, yes.   Adventurer, I doubt it.  That is why I wear pristine fulginate and have 2 rare items, a sword and a shield.</P> <P>I think that Meridian and Wildon on my server are 2 find examples of how a Paladin can legitimately equip themselves with tier5 rares, most of which are harvested, treasured or quested.   Basil and Silvermane are oustanding examples of how successful high lvl artisans who are Paladins can legitimately equip themselves with rares.   There are numerous others.  I hope to follow in their footsteps, <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <p>Message Edited by BlackWeb on <span class=date_text>05-09-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:01 AM</span>

[Oakbr]

<DIV><EM>Could a player actually come up with 30-60pp by lvl 40 and be 100% legit?  I suppose it is possible though highly unlikely.</EM></DIV> <DIV><EM></EM> </DIV> <DIV>That's exactly the type of comment that really irks the hell out of me.    For one thing, your prices totally ignore the option of harvesting one's own rares--which I have done to get to where I am at the moment--level 38, with imbued feysteel BP/Legs/Axe, and slightly lesser gear in the other slots, with a handful of adept 3s.  Adept 3 spells cost me 5 gold +  rare.  Armor pieces tend to run about 20 gold + rare + extract.  I expect I'll have at least Ebon BP/Legs as soon as I ding 40, even if I have to buy the rares.  Figure each piece will cost me rare + extract + 50 gold, max--assuming I remain unguilded and have to hire an armorer at the market rate.  I've never bought plat.  I am one of the loudest critics of the abomination that is Station Exchange.  Making coin LEGITIMATELY is not at all difficult in this game.  I quit doing any tradeskills other than provisioning when they took worts off the vendor.  Don't even sell the things Farghus makes as a provisioner--those are just for keeping my toons supplied.  Glimmering Teeth are selling for 30-35 gold a pop, and most t4 rares are going for at least 20 gold.  I generally sell at least two rares and a couple of teeth each week.  Also manage to move tons of adepts, some dropped gear via broker.  Everything else goes to the vendor.  I save my coin for priority purchases...for the Pally, that boils down to Armor, Weapons, and Spells.  For the Warlock, it's mostly just spells.  Get off your high horse, and quit insulting those of us that have worked hard to have nice gear.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Oakbrow on <span class=date_text>05-10-2005</span> <span class=time_text>12:59 AM</span>

[BlackW]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Oakbrow wrote:<BR> <DIV><EM>Could a player actually come up with 30-60pp by lvl 40 and be 100% legit?  I suppose it is possible though highly unlikely.</EM></DIV> <DIV><EM></EM> </DIV> <DIV>That's exactly the type of comment that really irks the hell out of me.    For one thing, your prices totally ignore the option of harvesting one's own rares--which I have done to get to where I am at the moment--level 38, with imbued feysteel BP/Legs/Axe, and slightly lesser gear in the other slots, with a handful of adept 3s.  Adept 3 spells cost me 5 gold +  rare.  Armor pieces tend to run about 20 gold + rare + extract.  I expect I'll have at least Ebon BP/Legs as soon as I ding 40, even if I have to buy the rares.  Figure each piece will cost me rare + extract + 50 gold, max--assuming I remain unguilded and have to hire an armorer at the market rate.  I've never bought plat.  I am one of the loudest critics of the abomination that is Station Exchange.  Making coin LEGITIMATELY is not at all difficult in this game.  I quit doing any tradeskills other than provisioning when they took worts off the vendor.  Don't even sell the things Farghus makes as a provisioner--those are just for keeping my toons supplied.  Glimmering Teeth are selling for 30-35 gold a pop, and most t4 rares are going for at least 20 gold.  I generally sell at least two rares and a couple of teeth each week.  Also manage to move tons of adepts, some dropped gear via broker.  Everything else goes to the vendor.  I save my coin for priority purchases...for the Pally, that boils down to Armor, Weapons, and Spells.  For the Warlock, it's mostly just spells.  Get off your high horse, and quit insulting those of us that have worked hard to have nice gear.</DIV> <P>Message Edited by Oakbrow on <SPAN class=date_text>05-10-2005</SPAN><SPAN class=time_text>12:59 AM</SPAN><BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>First of all, your pricing is waaaaaay off on Lucan Dlere.  Ebon Clusters are selling for 3pp and up and just about everything else is a LOT more expensive than the prices you quote above.  Ok so you say that you harvested 30-60pp worth of items by lvl 40.  You would have to be harvesting in tier5 zones in your late 30s.  How exactly did or can you do that?  Even if you could complete the access quests at the earliest possible lvl, tier5 mobs will turn your late 30s toon into a stain with ease.  You will not be able to harvest unmolested in teir5 zones until your mid to late 40s.  Sorry, I do not buy, it at least not without the help of some sort of harvesting bot and if there is such at thing, I do not want to know about it or have it posted in this thread.</P> <P>I dont need a lesson in making coin.  If you read above, I started my prime character before there was offline selling and online selling never worked that well for me.  I had to sell most things to the wholesaler.   My new alt Paladin character however, is lvl 29 and has been using offline selling since day 1 and has already made over a platinum.  He has done extremely well at finding rares, looting items and selling them.  He harvests a LOT but is also constantly attacked while harvesting.  However 1p by lvl 29 is a looooong waaaay from 30-60pp by lvl 40.  To harvest successfully in tier5 zones, you need a fairly strong tier5 toon or have someone do your harvesting for you.   I harvest for a tier5 provisioner friend of mine.  I give him the food, he cooks it and sells it back to me at a discount.</P> <P>Then there is the case of the high lvl artisan who "legitimately" harvests/buys and/or crafts his own rares.   I know of two uber successful lvl 50 artisans/Paladins who made lvl 50 artisan while in their adventuring 20s and 30s.  I doubt they could not have done that without a lot of help with harvesting from their friends and/or guild.   I suppose it is possible through shrewd coin management .  I am not saying that high lvl artisans who have others harvest for them are not legit.  I am just saying that it is very difficult to continue to craft (while at the same time being a low lvl adventurer) in the higher tiers without others giving you harvestables and/or coin.  </P> <DIV>So, to obtain 30-60pp by lvl 40 completely on ones own by lvl 40 in any reasonable amount of time is highly unlikely.  If you have a LOT of patience for harvesting and are willing to put weeks and weeks or even months and monts into alternating between adventuring, harvesting and crafting, it could be done.  I know of a few players who have done it but they tend to lvl very slowly because of the massive amounts of time they have to put into harvesting, adventuring and crafting.  I stand by my statement that when I see someone who is lvl 40, wearing a full suit of rare imbued crafted items and is a low lvl artisan, I assume they did not obtain all of the rares legitimately.   The numbers just dont add up.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If you tell me you made 5 or even 10p legit by lvl 40 I would say "well done".  If you say you made 30pp legitimately by lvl 40 without also being a very successful artisan whose artisan lvl is several lvls or more higher than your adventuring lvl, I would say "yea right".  If you say you made 60pp legitimately by adventuring lvl 40 and you are not also a lvl 50 artisan, I would say "no way".  Why lvl 50?  Only lvl 49+ can imbue tier5 items.  Imbued items is now where the coin is for most high lvl artisans.  The exception to this would be carpenters who can do quite well making furniture even at lower artisan lvls.</DIV><p>Message Edited by BlackWeb on <span class=date_text>05-10-2005</span> <span class=time_text>07:31 AM</span>

[Oakbr]

<span class="date_text">2005</span><span class="time_text">12:59 AM</span><font color="#ff99cc"> </font> <hr> <p><font color="#ff99cc"> </font><font color="#ff99cc">First of all, your pricing is waaaaaay off on Lucan Dlere.  Ebon Clusters are selling for 3pp and up and just about everything else is a LOT more expensive than the prices you quote above.  Ok so you say that you harvested 30-60pp worth of items by lvl 40. </font></p> <p><font color="#ff99cc"><font color="#ffffff">Reading comprehension is not your long suit, is it?  I posted my current level = 38.  I never said I harvested 30-60 plat worth of items, I said your prices fail to account for self harvested rares.  I'm also not on Lucan Dlere, I'm on Najeena. The prices I quoted are what I have actually paid for the items I have, and in the case of projected t5 items, the high end of the going rate for hiring artisans. Watching the market closely, it is possible to pick up an ebon cluster or bent ebon disk for about 2-2.5 plat.  I have the ability, right now, today, to buy one ebon.  That would go for my BP as soon as I ding 40.  I'm able to access 2 tier 5 zones for harvesting purposes--Rivervale and The Feerot. I have two full levels of harvesting before I ding 40.  Rivervale is very tough, most of the nodes seem to be guarded by aggro/heroic mobs, but the Feerot is not so bad.  I hunt solo in both zones.  Sometimes I die.  Sometimes I harvest rares. Instead of telling me what I "can't" do, why don't you come watch me do it?  For the umpteenth time, just because YOU can't do something does not mean that others can't.  I can, have, and will again.  Stop freakin arguing about how I can't do this...I AM doing it.  Legitimately.  Not my fault if you can't.</font> </font></p>

[BlackW]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Oakbrow wrote:<BR><SPAN class=date_text>2005</SPAN><SPAN class=time_text>12:59 AM</SPAN><FONT color=#ff99cc><BR></FONT> <HR> <P><FONT color=#ff99cc><BR></FONT><FONT color=#ff99cc>First of all, your pricing is waaaaaay off on Lucan Dlere.  Ebon Clusters are selling for 3pp and up and just about everything else is a LOT more expensive than the prices you quote above.  Ok so you say that you harvested 30-60pp worth of items by lvl 40. <BR></FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ff99cc><FONT color=#ffffff>Reading comprehension is not your long suit, is it?  I posted my current level = 38.  I never said I harvested 30-60 plat worth of items, I said your prices fail to account for self harvested rares.  I'm also not on Lucan Dlere, I'm on Najeena. The prices I quoted are what I have actually paid for the items I have, and in the case of projected t5 items, the high end of the going rate for hiring artisans. Watching the market closely, it is possible to pick up an ebon cluster or bent ebon disk for about 2-2.5 plat.  I have the ability, right now, today, to buy one ebon.  That would go for my BP as soon as I ding 40.  I'm able to access 2 tier 5 zones for harvesting purposes--Rivervale and The Feerot. I have two full levels of harvesting before I ding 40.  Rivervale is very tough, most of the nodes seem to be guarded by aggro/heroic mobs, but the Feerot is not so bad.  I hunt solo in both zones.  Sometimes I die.  Sometimes I harvest rares. Instead of telling me what I "can't" do, why don't you come watch me do it?  For the umpteenth time, just because YOU can't do something does not mean that others can't.  I can, have, and will again.  Stop freakin arguing about how I can't do this...I AM doing it.  Legitimately.  Not my fault if you can't.</FONT><BR></FONT></P><BR><BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Can you possibly please make a post without insulting someone?  I am working hard to control that celtic temper of mine.   Lets try being polite shall we?

[Oakbr]

<i>Can you possibly please make a post without insulting someone?  I am working hard to control that celtic temper of mine.   Lets try being polite shall we? </i>Could you possibly admit that it is you who are insulting people with the notion that anyone with rare armor at level 40 must be a cheater?  Could you possibly acknowledge the arguments that have completely debunked that assinine position?

[Titali]

<DIV>t4 rares go for a good ammount of cash too, and (to me at least) seem more common than t5 rares when harvesting. so you can sell a few and it equals out. heritage quests are also great for cash. thats how i got my ebon, all of it.</DIV>

[BlackW]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Oakbrow wrote:<BR><I>Can you possibly please make a post without insulting someone?  I am working hard to control that celtic temper of mine.   Lets try being polite shall we?<BR><BR></I>Could you possibly admit that it is you who are insulting people with the notion that anyone with rare armor at level 40 must be a cheater?  Could you possibly acknowledge the arguments that have completely debunked that assinine position?<BR><BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Thats not what I said.  Please troll elswhere.  You are not going to get what you want here.

[lisasdarr]

<span><blockquote><hr>BlackWeb wrote: <blockquote> <hr> Oakbrow wrote:<i>Can you possibly please make a post without insulting someone?  I am working hard to control that celtic temper of mine.   Lets try being polite shall we?</i>Could you possibly admit that it is you who are insulting people with the notion that anyone with rare armor at level 40 must be a cheater?  Could you possibly acknowledge the arguments that have completely debunked that assinine position? <hr> </blockquote>Thats not what I said.  Please troll elswhere.  You are not going to get what you want here. <div></div><hr></blockquote>Actually it effectivly is, you have stated that you would consider anyone who is wearing a full suit of rare gear at 40, but who is a low level crafter to have either been given the gear by someone else, or has bought coin with RL money. Several of us are clearly stating that we have managed to earn lots of coin using legitimate, non-crafting means without help from high level friends or mains. I am 25, I have made over 5 plat now all of it without cheating or tradeskilling. Since I managed to make about 5 Gold by 20th, 5 plat by 25th, i figure i will get another nice multiplier when i start selling T4 loot and will easily earn 50 plat by the time i hit 40 (not going to assume i can increase my fortune one hundred-fold as i did from 20 to 25, but ten-fold seems very reasonable to me). You can legitimatly earn huge amounts of coin as an adventurer if you want to.</span><div></div>

[Oakbr]

<font color="#ffcccc"> </font><font color="#ffcccc">Thats not what I said.  Please troll elswhere.  You are not going to get what you want here. <font color="#ffffff">I'm not the only one that saw what you said.  I've quoted your own words back at you often enough.  You are not going to squirm out of this one.  And you can stop trying to tell me where and how I may post.  All I want is for you to admit you were wrong,  Surely, that can't be such a hard thing for an "Honorable Paladin" to do?  Truth, Justice, and all that, right?</font> </font>

[BlackW]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> lisasdarren wrote:<BR><SPAN><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> BlackWeb wrote:<BR><BR>Thats not what I said.  Please troll elswhere.  You are not going to get what you want here. <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Actually it effectivly is, you have stated that you would consider anyone who is wearing a full suit of rare gear at 40, but who is a low level crafter to have either been given the gear by someone else, or has bought coin with RL money.<BR><BR>Several of us are clearly stating that we have managed to earn lots of coin using legitimate, non-crafting means without help from high level friends or mains. I am 25, I have made over 5 plat now all of it without cheating or tradeskilling. <BR><BR>Since I managed to make about 5 Gold by 20th, 5 plat by 25th, i figure i will get another nice multiplier when i start selling T4 loot and will easily earn 50 plat by the time i hit 40 (not going to assume i can increase my fortune one hundred-fold as i did from 20 to 25, but ten-fold seems very reasonable to me).<BR><BR>You can legitimatly earn huge amounts of coin as an adventurer if you want to.<BR></SPAN> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Oakbrow is a forum troll and stalker.  I am not responding to any more of his posts.  If he is not careful, he is going to get himself banned from these forums.</P> <P>"Actually it effectivly is"  Effectively is not the same as quoted.   I did not say that ANYONE who is wearing a full suit of pristine imbued ebon at lvl 40 is cheating.  I said that anyone who shows up at lvl 40 in a full suit of pristine imbued ebon and is not also a successful high lvl artisan, in a very wealthy guild or has very generous friends (including high lvl alts) is probably feeding real life coin to botters.  I actually have a freind who someone gave a full set of legendary tier5 items.  Lucky guy.</P> <P>Let's again look at the numbers.   There is no point in using found items as an example except Heritage Quest starters and those require a LOT of camping.  You could concievably get 1plat each for HQ starters if you were willing to do nothing but camp for HQ starters.  The rest of the teir3 & 4 items you would find are worth no more than a few gold or silver per item.  A few gold or silver per item for treasured tier3 & 4 items is a loong way from 5 plat much less 50 plat.</P> <P>Tier3 and 4 harvestables are different story.  Lets use steel or feysteel clusters as an example as they are the most valuable tier3 and tier4 harvestables.   If you did nothing but harvest, you might be able to find a steel or feysteel cluster every 2 or 3 days.   Steel clusters sell for about 20-30 gp each, feysteel for about 40-50g each.     You would need to find a lot of rare harvestables by lvl 40 to make 50 plat but it is possible.  If you want to do that, more power to you.  I have had extremely good luck harvesting at tier3 with my alt but I have yet to find a single steel cluster.</P> <DIV>The issue of community should not be ignored in EQ2.   If you start asking platinum or multiplatinum prices for tier3 and 4 harvestables you are going to make a lot of artisans unhappy with you.   If they have any sense they will not pay those kind of prices.  I would not advertise gouged prices in the trading or crafting channel were I you.  Asking plat prices for tier3 and 4 harvestables is price gouging.  Asking plat or multiplat prices for HQ starters is also price gouging.   I work hard to make as much coin as I can but to me the EQ2 community and preserving the integrity of the game as much as possible is more important than coin.    I have been giving sparkling harvestables I found to guildies for use in the Axe From the Past HQ.   I might could get a gold each for them but sometimes helping other guildies is more important than gold.  I found the lightbringer wisp quest starter after I had finished the quest.   I sold it for 5g.   Asking much more than that for it just felt wrong.   We need coin to survive in EQ2 but there is more to the game than getting rich like roleplaying, friendship and community.</DIV>

[BlackW]

repost, plz delete<p>Message Edited by BlackWeb on <span class=date_text>05-11-2005</span> <span class=time_text>04:54 AM</span>

[lisasdarr]

<span><blockquote><hr>BlackWeb wrote: <p>"Actually it effectivly is"  Effectively is not the same as quoted.   I did not say that ANYONE who is wearing a full suit of pristine imbued ebon at lvl 40 is cheating.  I said that anyone who shows up at lvl 40 in a full suit of pristine imbued ebon and is not also a successful high lvl artisan, in a very wealthy guild or has very generous friends (including high lvl alts) is probably feeding real life coin to botters.  I actually have a freind who someone gave a full set of legendary tier5 items.  Lucky guy.</p> <p>Let's again look at the numbers.   There is no point in using found items as an example except Heritage Quest starters and those require a LOT of camping.  You could concievably get 1plat each for HQ starters if you were willing to do nothing but camp for HQ starters.  The rest of the teir3 & 4 items you would find are worth no more than a few gold or silver per item.  A few gold or silver per item for treasured tier3 & 4 items is a loong way from 5 plat much less 50 plat.</p><hr></blockquote>Forget harvestables, I don't play that game it is boring, I made my money off drops. Now If we exclude the two rarest drops I have found then I have earned 3 and a half plat. I made this mostly selling things for a very few gold or for silver, I have been lucky and sold a few higher valued items (a few lightstones at about 5g each, a couple of sparkling harvests) but it is mostly a case of selling lots of cheaper stuff. Now the value of trash increases about 5 fold at 30th, so I'd assume it is safe to assume that prices of desirable drops (adepts, nice armour) also increases 5 fold (prices on the broker seem about this) so over the 10 tier 4 levels i can say i will make 10 times what i already have (twice the levels at 5 times the price), add to that another 5 plat for the rest of my tier 3 levels and a few rares worth a lot more in that time and 45-50 plat is not hard to arrive at. My point is essentially that it is quite possible to make this sort of money while just adventuring, not harvesting, not charging rip-off prices, not tradeskilling and not having rich friends. It just takes time, and since it is also taking me a lot of time to get all the quests done everywhere it all happens while i am just playing without any need to camp or grind or anything else.</span><div></div>

[SanJ]

<P>I am quite frustrated with the inconsistency of tier 5 adept 1 drops.  On the rare occassion, you find a merchant buy back price of 2 gold, 66 silver.  However, I've been looting volumes of 235 skill requirement adept 1's that sell for 1 silver to the merchant in Qeynos Harbor.  I typically offer adept 1's in guild chat first.  Next, I check the city broker for pricing and compare to what is already on the boards.  I have often found 2 gold, 66 silver adept 1's on the broker (4-7 in a row) for just high silver to no more then 1.5 gold.  When I see this, I buy them all until I reach the merchant price of 2 gold, 66 silver and then I return to the merchant and sell them all.  I've made up to 30 gold in under 15 minutes using this method, but it's very inconsistent due to the random pricing of either 2 gold 66 silver or just 1 silver for the same tier adept drops.  I am confident if I worked the broker boards hard for a week (maybe 2 hours early and then 2 more hours later in the day) I could earn more coin then even rare harvesting.</P> <P>Luminous tier 5 uncommons are < 2 gold on my server now, so I typically email every one I find to an artisan buddy in my guild.  He converts them all to luminous extract and emails me back a half stack and keeps the other half stack for himself.  I think I have 12-14 luminous extracts banked for whenever I want to imbue another rare I find--just shortens the process of having my craft completed quickly.</P> <P>Tier 5 food resources are harvested very infrequently on Najena server.  Most players, race to ore "I call it crack rock now <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" and stone in hopes of an ebon, ruby or rhodium cluster.  It's very difficult to get players to clear the fungus and plants, although they tend to be fairly consistent with trees and roots.  Most evenings I notice peaches, tea leaves, lava beans, etc. going from 6 silver up to 18 silver per unit.  If you take time to harvest all the food resources, I typically have a 40ish stack of every type within 4-5 hours.  This can add up quickly on coin net gain.  Likewise, the wholesaler society now gives harvesting quests based on your skill levels.  At tier 5, I get 1 gold and 92 silver every time I harvest.  I know this isn't a lot of money, but more then covers your boat ride and adds up over time.  Most "junk" drops in tier 5 sell for 2-3 gold to the city merchant so this is yet another avenue of coin gain.  Should you be lucky enough to loot something nice you can bank on 8-18 gold return within 1-2 days on most occasions.  Selling unwanted heritage rewards will usually pay either 20 gold or 60 gold depending on the item and tier.</P> <P>As a 47 Paladin/38 Jeweler I have earned close to 10 plat lifetime in merchant mode, while probably spending an equal amount from coin gained vendoring junk.  I am a spender so I tend to buy a lot of stuff and I'm also usually generous so I give a lot of money away.  I would guess I've earned between 25-30 plat since rollout between my various toons.  Of course I've likewise used a lot of rares for myself on adept 3's and equipment upgrades through the various tiers.  I could have easily earned another 10 plat on what I've saved for myself.</P> <P>I know of several really good ways to earn a lot of coin quickly, but I lack the motivation to just "grind" for coin all the time.  I like to experience the "adventuring/questing/helping friends" aspect just way too much and I have enough to buy what I need and usually enough to buy want I want.</P> <P>I have seen players at lower levels with 2x-4x what I have and often ponder how they acquired so many goods.  However, I remind myself of several things:</P> <P>- If i worked the broker boards hard for a few days, I could probably acquire a full suit of ebon faster then I could harvesting for rare ebon clusters <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR>- A lot of the players I see that have stuff at lower levels that doesn't quite look right have 1 or 2 or more very high level crafters that can afford practically anything in-game.  I am quilty of twinking on my 26 ratonga assassin.  He has only the best of the best and it primarily comes from Kalen's hard work.  I bet a lot of mid 20's think "Dash--my assassin" is an ebay purchased equipment toon.<BR>- I know of a 50 armorsmith in Freeport that charges 30 gold for ebon combines.  You supply the ebon and the luminous and this toon creates your uber armor.  I have spent a little time getting to know this person a little better (who wears a full suit of pristine ebon in the early 40's).  They usually do on average of 9-12 combines per day!  Easy to obtain the gear you want netting that type of coin.  <BR>- Throw in a guild that is generous and imagine what you could do with a lot of helpful friends.</P> <P>Now do I believe everyone packing around a full suit of pristine ebon earned it the honest way?  Of course not, I've had several I've spoken with and got to know better flat out tell me it came from buying plat on eBay.  To each his own, but for me I'm not necessarily concerned with being one of the top 100 or top 1,000 richest people on the server.  I'm concerned with having fun in my spare time, having enough coin to buy what I need and having a little left over to buy a few things I don't really need but just want.</P> <P>Thanks,<BR>Kalen</P>

[MeridianR]

<span><blockquote><hr>SanJun wrote:<div></div> <p>I am quite frustrated with the inconsistency of tier 5 adept 1 drops.  On the rare occassion, you find a merchant buy back price of 2 gold, 66 silver.  However, I've been looting volumes of 235 skill requirement adept 1's that sell for 1 silver to the merchant in Qeynos Harbor.  I typically offer adept 1's in guild chat first.  Next, I check the city broker for pricing and compare to what is already on the boards.  I have often found 2 gold, 66 silver adept 1's on the broker (4-7 in a row) for just high silver to no more then 1.5 gold.  When I see this, I buy them all until I reach the merchant price of 2 gold, 66 silver and then I return to the merchant and sell them all.  I've made up to 30 gold in under 15 minutes using this method, but it's very inconsistent due to the random pricing of either 2 gold 66 silver or just 1 silver for the same tier adept drops.  I am confident if I worked the broker boards hard for a week (maybe 2 hours early and then 2 more hours later in the day) I could earn more coin then even rare harvesting.</p> <p>Luminous tier 5 uncommons are < 2 gold on my server now, so I typically email every one I find to an artisan buddy in my guild.  He converts them all to luminous extract and emails me back a half stack and keeps the other half stack for himself.  I think I have 12-14 luminous extracts banked for whenever I want to imbue another rare I find--just shortens the process of having my craft completed quickly.</p> <p>Tier 5 food resources are harvested very infrequently on Najena server.  Most players, race to ore "I call it crack rock now <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" and stone in hopes of an ebon, ruby or rhodium cluster.  It's very difficult to get players to clear the fungus and plants, although they tend to be fairly consistent with trees and roots.  Most evenings I notice peaches, tea leaves, lava beans, etc. going from 6 silver up to 18 silver per unit.  If you take time to harvest all the food resources, I typically have a 40ish stack of every type within 4-5 hours.  This can add up quickly on coin net gain.  Likewise, the wholesaler society now gives harvesting quests based on your skill levels.  At tier 5, I get 1 gold and 92 silver every time I harvest.  I know this isn't a lot of money, but more then covers your boat ride and adds up over time.  Most "junk" drops in tier 5 sell for 2-3 gold to the city merchant so this is yet another avenue of coin gain.  Should you be lucky enough to loot something nice you can bank on 8-18 gold return within 1-2 days on most occasions.  Selling unwanted heritage rewards will usually pay either 20 gold or 60 gold depending on the item and tier.</p> <p>As a 47 Paladin/38 Jeweler I have earned close to 10 plat lifetime in merchant mode, while probably spending an equal amount from coin gained vendoring junk.  I am a spender so I tend to buy a lot of stuff and I'm also usually generous so I give a lot of money away.  I would guess I've earned between 25-30 plat since rollout between my various toons.  Of course I've likewise used a lot of rares for myself on adept 3's and equipment upgrades through the various tiers.  I could have easily earned another 10 plat on what I've saved for myself.</p> <p>I know of several really good ways to earn a lot of coin quickly, but I lack the motivation to just "grind" for coin all the time.  I like to experience the "adventuring/questing/helping friends" aspect just way too much and I have enough to buy what I need and usually enough to buy want I want.</p> <p>I have seen players at lower levels with 2x-4x what I have and often ponder how they acquired so many goods.  However, I remind myself of several things:</p> <p>- If i worked the broker boards hard for a few days, I could probably acquire a full suit of ebon faster then I could harvesting for rare ebon clusters <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />- A lot of the players I see that have stuff at lower levels that doesn't quite look right have 1 or 2 or more very high level crafters that can afford practically anything in-game.  I am quilty of twinking on my 26 ratonga assassin.  He has only the best of the best and it primarily comes from Kalen's hard work.  I bet a lot of mid 20's think "Dash--my assassin" is an ebay purchased equipment toon.- I know of a 50 armorsmith in Freeport that charges 30 gold for ebon combines.  You supply the ebon and the luminous and this toon creates your uber armor.  I have spent a little time getting to know this person a little better (who wears a full suit of pristine ebon in the early 40's).  They usually do on average of 9-12 combines per day!  Easy to obtain the gear you want netting that type of coin.  - Throw in a guild that is generous and imagine what you could do with a lot of helpful friends.</p> <p>Now do I believe everyone packing around a full suit of pristine ebon earned it the honest way?  Of course not, I've had several I've spoken with and got to know better flat out tell me it came from buying plat on eBay.  To each his own, but for me I'm not necessarily concerned with being one of the top 100 or top 1,000 richest people on the server.  I'm concerned with having fun in my spare time, having enough coin to buy what I need and having a little left over to buy a few things I don't really need but just want.</p> <p>Thanks,Kalen</p><hr></blockquote>Good post, pretty much I agree that working the Brooker is a business in and of itself...lol, but on large servers such as Mistmoore...I believe there are a bunch of people doing it, which sort of makes it much harder. I also agree about the 1s adept1's, whats up with that....I have looted L46-48 drops numerous times and seen them only sell for 1s back to vendors....most of the time I like to put any adepts up on my brooker for 2-3 days to see if I can get more then the vendor buyback, but I have about 4-6 adepts in my vault right now, that haven't sold. As for myself, I believe I have made via vendor mode about a little more then 8 plat...currently I have about 4.6 plat on me (soon to be less when I buy imbued legs). I do a lot of harvesting in Rivervale (since most stuff isn't aggro and I have a set path marked where to harvest), and always sell all my stones (fulginate, bloodstone, diamondine), roots, and wood at 1s a piece. Like Kalen said, the money in harvesting is from the scrubs, and if your server doens't have an overload of tea leaves, coffee beans, etc then you can make decent money this way. Do I have a ton of money, not really...out of all my gear, the most expensive piece is my Imbued Ebon Chestplate...soon I will have the leggings, but other then that, all my other gear (while decent in its own right) is cheaper bought or quested items. My spells are all AppIV or higher, but that is because I have a deal with my local Alchemist because of all the business I have brought to him, and only pay 3g for any Tier5 AppIV.  My weapons, are the EBBC for 2h (used my only harvested Ebon on this - as a guildie gave me a great price on the other ebon I have had), and Shiny Brass Shield and Evol Machette (awesome, awesome stats) for tanking....my next 1h will be Bloodfire when I finish the Heart of Fear Access quest, and I believe I will keep the EBBC or hope for another Ebon for my next 2her. I do imagine there are numerous Ebay twinked toons out there, and though I do not have a problem with that (hey if you want to spend real life money for a game, then that is totally your choice), but my toon is 100% legit <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />   </span><div></div>

[SanJ]

<P>Remember when ...</P> <P>Tier 2</P> <P>You ran to the North Qeynos Castle to talk to the Knight-Lieutenant to get the Antonica quest:</P> <P>kill 10 beetles, 10 rats, 10 snakes = 2 silver quest reward and once in a blue moon you were lucky enough to get 3 silver</P> <P>Tier 3</P> <P>You arrived in Thundering Steppes and visited Trapper Borgus for the hunting quests</P> <P>10 antelope or 10 snakes or 10 beetles = 5 silver</P> <P>Nov 04' Flashbacks <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>Thanks,</P> <P>Kalen</P>

[MeridianR]

<span><blockquote><hr>SanJun wrote:<p>Remember when ...</p> <p>Tier 2</p> <p>You ran to the North Qeynos Castle to talk to the Knight-Lieutenant to get the Antonica quest:</p> <p>kill 10 beetles, 10 rats, 10 snakes = 2 silver quest reward and once in a blue moon you were lucky enough to get 3 silver</p> <p>Tier 3</p> <p>You arrived in Thundering Steppes and visited Trapper Borgus for the hunting quests</p> <p>10 antelope or 10 snakes or 10 beetles = 5 silver</p> <p>Nov 04' Flashbacks <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p> <p>Thanks,</p> <p>Kalen</p><hr></blockquote>OMG I remember finding the Kill 10 trash quest in beta, and was so excited when I found out it went into live. Myself and 4 others did that for two days straight to come up with the 60s we needed to form our guild...lol.. When we got into TS together, we found it was worth more money to go to the coast and group kill crabs for there meat, and the Ash Shields they used to drop....then we progressed to Nek Forest Coast and the crabs there....lol Great times, but that was when I was playing my Illusionist..which I got bored of, because nobody back then knew or cared about CC, and our Wizard guildie was outdamaging me by tons....so in December with my good friend going on vacation for 4 weeks I rolled my Paladin, and haven't looked back....my Illusionist is still at L23 <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></span><div></div>

[Oakbr]

<div></div><div></div><font color="#ffcccc">Tier3 and 4 harvestables are different story.  Lets use steel or feysteel clusters as an example as they are the most valuable tier3 and tier4 harvestables.  <font color="#ffffff">Wrong again.  Feysteel is one of the cheaper t4 rares.  Ruthenium and Rough Opals sell better, Glimmering Tooth sells best of all.  Helps if you actually know what you're talking about when you attempt to make a point.  BTW, nice cop out with the namecalling...instead of you know, actually disputing my points, which apparently you can't do.  How hard can it possibly be to grasp the notion that just because you can't seem to make decent coin, that DOES NOT MEAN that those of us who do are cheating?  Isn't it possible, Mr. "Honorable" Palidan, Sir, that perhaps you do not know all there is to know about this game, and maybe, just maybe, some of us are better at making coin that you are? As for the drivel about price gouging--nonsense.  Any item is worth whatever somebody is willing to pay for it.  If I have a rare item, I am going to sell it for the most I can get for it, just like anyone else.  HQ starters, at least the ones that are tradeable, generally bring a good price and move quickly.  If you can't afford it, too bad, so sad...somebody else can.  If I have an item that doesn't sell, I'll lower the price in small steps until it does. Nothing wrong with doing business that way.  Maybe you should try it, and use the profits to buy yourself some decent gear? Moving on, you said this: </font></font><font color="#ffccff">"Actually it effectivly is"  Effectively is not the same as quoted.   I did not say that ANYONE who is wearing a full suit of pristine imbued ebon at lvl 40 is cheating.  I said that anyone who shows up at lvl 40 in a full suit of pristine imbued ebon and is not also a successful high lvl artisan, in a very wealthy guild or has very generous friends (including high lvl alts) is probably feeding real life coin to botters</font> In other words, anyone who doesn't employ the only means you apparently understand to generate coin is a cheater?  Way to argue yourself into a corner.  Now you're reduced to arguing semantics, and shoot yourself in the foot in the process.  WTG. <p>Message Edited by Oakbrow on <span class="date_text">05-11-2005</span> <span class="time_text">11:09 AM</span></p><p>Message Edited by Oakbrow on <span class=date_text>05-11-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:10 AM</span>

[Sav]

There are plenty of ways to generate coin in EQ. - You can tradeskill.  Some don't like crafting. - You can do quests.  There's a repeatable quest in Feerrott that yields 6g for killing 10 sattars.  Some people don't like questing. - You can harvest and sell whatever unwanted rares you find.  Some people don't like harvesting. - You can kill green or higher mobs and loot the body parts and chests.  Northern Stags in EF sometimes drop antlers which sell for 2g+.  Northern stags drop chests that contain all the Tundra Walker stuff which sells for nearly 4g to vendor, around 10-15g on Kithicor.  Some people don't like farming mobs or *gasp* xping. - You can look for rare mobs and kill them with the hopes of getting Master chests which may contain rares.  Mobs like Undertow, Fire Toad, and the Brood Mother come to mind.  Some people don't like killing named mobs. - You can get a group together and farm instances.  Icespire Summit, Bastion of Flames, Miragul's Menagerie come to mind.  Some people don't like doing access quests or grouping for instances. - You can get your guild to do raids on mobs that are more likely to drop master chests (epic x 4 mobs) and hope to get rares from the master chests or fabled armor that is superior to ebon.  Some people don't like guilds. - You can sit in Qeynos or Freeport and beg people for money.  But nobody likes beggars <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> There are lots of way to make money.  If you cannot make money, you are either playing casually, playing lazily, or playing apathetically.  In any of those cases, you have no one to blame but yourself.  I personally got enough money to do armoring from not buying a single upgrade until late 30s.  Then from armoring, I made enough money to buy and sell on the market.  Buying an ebon for 2pp and selling it for 3pp to someone who wanted one right away, for example. <div></div>

[Exos]

<P>BlackWeb,</P> <P>When I read your initial post I thought, "this guys has it right, you don't need the uber stuff to have fun in this game."  But throught the life of the thread you have really come across as just the oppisite.  From reading your responses to these posts you really leave me no choice but to think that you are excatally the type of player you urged others not to be, the player that isn't satisfied with what he has and won't be happy until he has what the guy next to him has.  You have had several people reply to your opening post and tell you how they managed to aquire the "top quality" items.  Yet it seems that you haven't really accepted that what they are telling you is true.  Do you think they are lying?  People have told you that threw LOTS of harveting they have managed to get most or the rares they need,  Do you believe them?</P> <P>I agree with you that the amount of bot'ed coin is certainly driving up prices and that is a shame really.  But you reaction to it and the fact of your reaction to the station exchange only leads me to believe that you are jealous of the guys that have the stuff that you so badly want.  If this isnt the case than you really need to try to communicate youself better because that is what you are portraying to those that read this thread.</P> <P>I can't help but think that your opening post was nothing more than an attempt to convince yourself of something you don't yet believe,</P> <P>peace</P> <P> </P>

[BlackW]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Exos wrote:<BR> <P>BlackWeb,</P> <P>When I read your initial post I thought, "this guys has it right, you don't need the uber stuff to have fun in this game."  But throught the life of the thread you have really come across as just the oppisite.  From reading your responses to these posts you really leave me no choice but to think that you are excatally the type of player you urged others not to be, the player that isn't satisfied with what he has and won't be happy until he has what the guy next to him has.  You have had several people reply to your opening post and tell you how they managed to aquire the "top quality" items.  Yet it seems that you haven't really accepted that what they are telling you is true.  Do you think they are lying?  People have told you that threw LOTS of harveting they have managed to get most or the rares they need,  Do you believe them?</P> <P>I agree with you that the amount of bot'ed coin is certainly driving up prices and that is a shame really.  But you reaction to it and the fact of your reaction to the station exchange only leads me to believe that you are jealous of the guys that have the stuff that you so badly want.  If this isnt the case than you really need to try to communicate youself better because that is what you are portraying to those that read this thread.</P> <P>I can't help but think that your opening post was nothing more than an attempt to convince yourself of something you don't yet believe,</P> <P>peace</P> <P> </P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>This is getting personal again.  You do not know me personally and I do not know you personally so lets not go there.  I first try to reason with those who get personal, then if that does not work, I simply ignore them.</P> <P>I like my prime character just the way he is.   I like my fulginate armor.   I may get ebon later but I am in no hurry.   The fulginate performs just fine.   I am often able to out-tank players in full legendary/pristine imbued ebon.   I have a freind who is a gaurdian, 2 lvls higher than me, decked in full ebon/legendary and he often takes more damage than me tanking the same mobs  (cant understand that).  I am not spending all of my plat on ebon, even if I have enough to buy some ebon armor.   Crafting ones way to teir5 can be quite expensive and I am saving a lot of coin to help me get there. </P> <P>Crack rock, great analogy for tier5 ore <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />   Ebon really does have an amazing effect on some ppl in EQ2, they will just stand and gaze at it, drooling over it.  I have found that full pristine ebon and other crafted rares at tier5 have a lot of negative connotations with them, rightly or wrongly.  Perhaps it is wrong to make assumptions about someone in their low 40s wearing full crafted legendary items but assumptions are made nonetheless.   If I see someone in full crafted legendary, I may inspect their character but I never say anything in game.   However, I have seen other players absolutely grill them about where they got it if they are not also a high lvl artisan.  They treat them like an 18 year old driving a brand new lexus and carrying a platinum credit card.</P> <P>As a guild master, I must also be extremely concscious of the example I set as a player.   I am mentor/example to the lower lvl characters in my guild.  One of the reasons that I do not wear ebon, even if I could afford it (I could afford 1, maybe 2 pieces of ebon), is that it sets and unattainable standard for the other players in my guild.   None of them is a tier5 artisan yet and I am currently the only tier5 player in my guild.   I do not want them scraping and scratching for coin, trying to be like me in my ebon (If I had any).   I want them to have fun playing EQ2, not obsess over getting rare, crafted legendary items they will not need until their late 40s anyway.   If they find nice things or craft and sell to buy them that is great but I do not want the focus of my guild to be making coin.  My focus has paid off lately, they are doing well crafting and gaining legendary items through hertiage quests, working together and having fun not scraping, scratching and obsessing over making coin and getting the best items.   One of our rangers is now obsessed with getting the Polished Granite Tomahawk and having fun working on the Axe from the Past quest to get it along with others in my guild.   That is what EQ2 about, questing, community, working together and most importantly having fun!  :smileyvery-happy:</P> <DIV>This thread is about having pride in your tier5 character whether you can afford ebon or not and about preserving the integrity of the game.   I cannot tell you how many heavy armor class characters I have met who think they need ebon to succeed at tier5.   You do not need ebon anywhere but the lvl 50 heroic zones and if you are in a good strong balanced group, you do not need it there.   Ebon is great if you can afford it but please dont feed coin to botters to get it.</DIV>

[Sav]

<div></div><span><blockquote><hr>BlackWeb wrote: <blockquote> <hr> Exos wrote: <p>BlackWeb,</p> <p>When I read your initial post I thought, "this guys has it right, you don't need the uber stuff to have fun in this game."  But throught the life of the thread you have really come across as just the oppisite.  From reading your responses to these posts you really leave me no choice but to think that you are excatally the type of player you urged others not to be, the player that isn't satisfied with what he has and won't be happy until he has what the guy next to him has.  You have had several people reply to your opening post and tell you how they managed to aquire the "top quality" items.  Yet it seems that you haven't really accepted that what they are telling you is true.  Do you think they are lying?  People have told you that threw LOTS of harveting they have managed to get most or the rares they need,  Do you believe them?</p> <p>I agree with you that the amount of bot'ed coin is certainly driving up prices and that is a shame really.  But you reaction to it and the fact of your reaction to the station exchange only leads me to believe that you are jealous of the guys that have the stuff that you so badly want.  If this isnt the case than you really need to try to communicate youself better because that is what you are portraying to those that read this thread.</p> <p>I can't help but think that your opening post was nothing more than an attempt to convince yourself of something you don't yet believe,</p> <p>peace</p> <div></div> <hr> </blockquote> <p>This is getting personal again.  You do not know me personally and I do not know you personally so lets not go there.  I first try to reason with those who get personal, then if that does not work, I simply ignore them.</p> <p>I like my prime character just the way he is.   I like my fulginate armor.   I may get ebon later but I am in no hurry.   The fulginate performs just fine.   I am often able to out-tank players in full legendary/pristine imbued ebon.   I have a freind who is a gaurdian, 2 lvls higher than me, decked in full ebon/legendary and he often takes more damage than me tanking the same mobs  (cant understand that).  I am not spending all of my plat on ebon, even if I have enough to buy some ebon armor.   Crafting ones way to teir5 can be quite expensive and I am saving a lot of coin to help me get there. </p> <p>Crack rock, great analogy for tier5 ore <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />   Ebon really does have an amazing effect on some ppl in EQ2, they will just stand and gaze at it, drooling over it.  I have found that full pristine ebon and other crafted rares at tier5 have a lot of negative connotations with them, rightly or wrongly.  Perhaps it is wrong to make assumptions about someone in their low 40s wearing full crafted legendary items but assumptions are made nonetheless.   If I see someone in full crafted legendary, I may inspect their character but I never say anything in game.   However, I have seen other players absolutely grill them about where they got it if they are not also a high lvl artisan.  They treat them like an 18 year old driving a brand new lexus and carrying a platinum credit card. </p> <p><font color="#ffff00">Maybe things are different on your server.  I am an armorer, and only one of many.  However, in the past 3 months, I have worked 51 ebon combines, only 6 of which were for myself.  Ebon is not terribly uncommon on my server.</font> </p> <p>As a guild master, I must also be extremely concscious of the example I set as a player.   I am mentor/example to the lower lvl characters in my guild.  One of the reasons that I do not wear ebon, even if I could afford it (I could afford 1, maybe 2 pieces of ebon), is that it sets and unattainable standard for the other players in my guild.   None of them is a tier5 artisan yet and I am currently the only tier5 player in my guild.   I do not want them scraping and scratching for coin, trying to be like me in my ebon (If I had any).   I want them to have fun playing EQ2, not obsess over getting rare, crafted legendary items they will not need until their late 40s anyway.   If they find nice things or craft and sell to buy them that is great but I do not want the focus of my guild to be making coin.  My focus has paid off lately, they are doing well crafting and gaining legendary items through hertiage quests, working together and having fun not scraping, scratching and obsessing over making coin and getting the best items.   One of our rangers is now obsessed with getting the Polished Granite Tomahawk and having fun working on the Axe from the Past quest to get it along with others in my guild.   That is what EQ2 about, questing, community, working together and most importantly having fun!  :smileyvery-happy: </p> <p><font color="#ffff00">So you do not want your members to obsess over upgrading their armor.  But it's ok for them to obsess over PGT?  What if they have fun obsessing over their armor?  What if they have fun tryng to min/max their character?</font> </p> <div>This thread is about having pride in your tier5 character whether you can afford ebon or not and about preserving the integrity of the game.   I cannot tell you how many heavy armor class characters I have met who think they need ebon to succeed at tier5.   You do not need ebon anywhere but the lvl 50 heroic zones and if you are in a good strong balanced group, you do not need it there.   Ebon is great if you can afford it but please dont feed coin to botters to get it.</div><hr></blockquote>I don't disagree with anything you said.  But your tone has changed a lot since your initial post.  Maybe people have persuaded at least a little bit from your previous stance to this more moderate stance.  I tanked for groups all the way to 50 using nothing other than fulginate.  I did not want to upgrade to ebon due to the cost.  But when we started to raid, ebon turned out to be very useful.  The upgrades to resists alone are enormous.</span><div></div><p>Message Edited by Savik on <span class=date_text>05-12-2005</span> <span class=time_text>07:35 AM</span>

[Platfing]

<P>Guys, guys, guys - this is not paladin behavior.  Let people play how they want, and let's be done with all this arguing.  I have quite a bit of respect for Blackweb, if for no other reason than the crusader guide that I made use of many months ago.  Respect every style of play, because nobody is the same and everyone plays this *game* differently.  </P> <P>Defend the weak, protect the innocent, and tolerate those that are different.</P> <P>Fenra Fairheart</P> <P>44 Paladin</P> <P>Butcherblock    </P> <P>Edit:  Also, note he IS on the RP server - things are a little different over there sometimes</P> <P> </P> <p>Message Edited by Platfinger on <span class=date_text>05-12-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:20 AM</span>

[Oakbr]

<font color="#ff99cc">Guys, guys, guys - this is not paladin behavior. <font color="#ffffff">And this ain't a roleplaying forum, now is it?  Think most of the fireworks are pretty much over.  Blackweb has come close to acknowledging his error, after several posters took him to task, and I've got another little project in mind at the moment.</font> </font>

[Titali]

<DIV>im beginning to think this is all some conspiracy. if blackweb can convince people to use [Removed for Content] armor while secretly upgrading himself he can become the most uber equipped pally. yea, thats gotta be it.</DIV>

[BlackW]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Titaliss wrote:<BR> <DIV>im beginning to think this is all some conspiracy. if blackweb can convince people to use [Removed for Content] armor while secretly upgrading himself he can become the most uber equipped pally. yea, thats gotta be it.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Argh!:smileymad:   Foiled again! :smileysurprised:</P> <P>Yes, look at my character loaded to the gills with rares.  Ummm wait, just 2 rares:smileysad:  Ah well one can only hope that one day, I will legitimately have it all.  Until then, I love my fulginate :smileyvery-happy:</P> <P>I remember when I brought up botting, coin buying on the internet and cheating in general in my Paladin guide.  Too much controversy!   So I deleted it.   Same thing happened here.   </P> <P>Since I made my first post, SOE has done a complete about face concerning buying and selling EQ2 items on the internet and we now have the station exchange.   If SOE thinks it is legit on some servers, does that make it legit on all servers?   I will not say yes but the station exchange certainly changes the perception if not the reality of what is legit on all of the servers. <P>Do what you want, play how you want as long as it is within the terms of service.  If you violate the terms of service you could be sanctioned by SOE.  Need I say more.</P><p>Message Edited by BlackWeb on <span class=date_text>05-17-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:31 AM</span>

[Oakbr]

<font color="#ffcccc">I remember when I brought up botting, coin buying on the internet and cheating in general in my Paladin guide.  Too much controversy!   So I deleted it.   Same thing happened here.  </font> <font color="#ffffff">No, the controversy here started when you accused anyone that has better gear than you do of being a botter, buying plat, or otherwise cheating.  Strongly suggest you don't go down that road again.  Last time did not work out so well for ya, and I had to go to the trouble of getting a "red name" overruled by another "red name".  More trouble than it was worth. </font>