Please share your experiences with the lvl 30 upgrade - Palin's Vengeful Strike

[paladinwa]

<DIV>I would greatly appreciate it if those of you who chose the Palin's upgrade would share with us how you like it. And if you would be so kind as to record the stats for this spell here or on lustus' thread, that would also be greatly appreciated.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I am about to select my lvl 30 upgrade, and I am leaning towards Palin's, but part of me still wants the LoH upgrade. (Since I have Adept 3 Blessed Aid, I have heard that I dont need the Blessed Aid upgrade.) My rationale is that Palin's would be used multiple times every fight, whereas the LoH upgrade only gets used once in a while. However, the other factor I am considering is that it is possible to upgrade Divine Vengeance to Adept 3, and that may be as good as Palin's, but nothing else I am aware of reduces the recast time of our LoH series of spells like Jess'. (Jess' can be used every 15 min, whereas LoH and the lvl 34 upgrade to LoH require 30 minutes before they can be recast.)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The wisdom of those who have gone before me would be most appreciated. Thanks in advance.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Iustus]

<P>I have Jess's Holy Sanctuary and Virtuous Touch (Master I).</P> <P>Jess's heals for 1003 with a 900 second reuse timer.</P> <P>Virtuous Touch heals for 1467 with a 1800 second reuse timer.</P> <P>I have been using Virtuous Touch lately. My thinking on the matter is that if its a big enough emergency to need this, then the extra 450 heal may make the difference.</P> <P>However, if you are soloing a lot, half the reuse timer may be better.</P> <P>It really depends on how often you use LoH. Do you use it a lot? Or is it for real emergencies only, and you go days, weeks, without ever using it?</P> <P>-I</P>

[Pathin Merrithay]

<P> </P> <P>I went with Jess' and never looked back. I can't deny the usefulness of either ability and agree that your play style is going to have the most dramatic effect on your choice. I tend to have a regular group where a higher level guardian tanks and a warden keeps heals very well. In the areas I've been fighting lately, (Runnyeye by and large during exp grinds)  bad pulls/pops where the healer gets agro are common, and once that happens the group wipes. Having a quick 800 or so HPs to drop on them gives precious seconds for the MT to get agro back, or the warden to get themselves out of danger. I've never regretted having to wait only 15 minutes to get that back.</P> <P>It's situational. Examine what you beleive your play style will be and decide accordingly. </P>

[Nurta]

I too went with Jess's and am happy with the choice <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[SunT]

<P>I went with Palins initially and on respec.</P> <P>It gave me 130 plus ac last time I checked, roughly level 36.  It is hard to say now, since the last two patches have screwed up these numbers.  </P> <P>It does not stack with the level 40 training that grants AGI.</P> <P>I still think it is a good spell, but if you plan to go with the 40 training for the buff then go with one of the others.</P> <P>If I were to respec again, I would choose the group buff at forty rather than the single target buff.  The extra 5% aggro is very effective.</P>

[uzhiel feathered serpe]

<DIV>From a pure raiding perspective I went with jess. Most raids take quite a bit of time to complete. The 1st time we raided Vox I got to use it 3 times!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As for soloing, my gear and weapons are almost all master chest armor and weapon drops, so you'd think I wouldnt take that much damage, but hell, I have to fire off Jess every once in while, specially when Im soloing quests in EF/PF or Lavastorm. The short timer helps.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Uzhiel, lvl 50 Paladin, Eternal Chaos, Faydark</DIV>

[paladinwa]

<DIV>So it seems that the most common choices (if you dont need Blessed Aid upgrade) are to do Jess (LoH) at 30 and Kasine's Piety (Pious Belief) at 40.  Other choice would be Palin's at 30 and Theron's Call at 40, since the agility bonuses from Palin's Kasine's do NOT stack.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Sun, I'd be interested in more of your experiences, since your earlier post on Palin's was one of the few I found about this art, and you were a big fan of it. I know you said you chose Palin at 30 and Kasine at 40, but wish you had chosen Theron at 40. Do you now wish you had gone Jess at 30 and would you then have gone with Kasine?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As for play style, I solo and group about evenly. (I will prorbaly ever be big into raids since I cannot plan when I will be available to play.)  I dont use LoH much now, as I save it for that "oh no" moment, which doesnt happen all that often, and when it does happen, I find that LoH only makes the difference once in a while. Often it doesn't save us, or the ranger still needs to do an evac. Seems most useful when soloing as it allows me to escape with my life in some bad situations.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Yet despite my low usage of LoH, after reading the above, I am now leaning towards Jess' since I can get Divine Veng upgraded to Adept 3. I am guessing all I would lose is the AGI buff that Palins has. is that correct? Can Palin's still be cast on the move like Div. Veng?  </DIV>

[SunT]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> paladinwayy wrote:<BR> <DIV>So it seems that the most common choices (if you dont need Blessed Aid upgrade) are to do Jess (LoH) at 30 and Kasine's Piety (Pious Belief) at 40.  Other choice would be Palin's at 30 and Theron's Call at 40, since the agility bonuses from Palin's Kasine's do NOT stack.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Sun, I'd be interested in more of your experiences, since your earlier post on Palin's was one of the few I found about this art, and you were a big fan of it. I know you said you chose Palin at 30 and Kasine at 40, but wish you had chosen Theron at 40. Do you now wish you had gone Jess at 30 and would you then have gone with Kasine?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As for play style, I solo and group about evenly. (I will prorbaly ever be big into raids since I cannot plan when I will be available to play.)  I dont use LoH much now, as I save it for that "oh no" moment, which doesnt happen all that often, and when it does happen, I find that LoH only makes the difference once in a while. Often it doesn't save us, or the ranger still needs to do an evac. Seems most useful when soloing as it allows me to escape with my life in some bad situations.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Yet despite my low usage of LoH, after reading the above, I am now leaning towards Jess' since I can get Divine Veng upgraded to Adept 3. I am guessing all I would lose is the AGI buff that Palins has. is that correct? Can Palin's still be cast on the move like Div. Veng?  </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>If I did a respec, I think I would keep the Palin and take the group buff at forty.</P> <P>The reason I took Palin vs the heal or loh, was I use its base spell five or more times every fight I already had the Adept three heal and I feel if you rely on LoH as a method of healing, you are doing something wrong.  Palin's is never resisted and can be cast on the run and I have cast it on a 51 named and it still lands and the timer is short enough that it is nearly chainable.  I am a big proponent of AGI.  Secret to solo is not to get hit and not to need healing, agi helps this alot.  If you have to heal you will go oop and die before you kill him.  If you have Palin you might not have to heal.</P> <P>When I saw the group buff vs the single target buff for 40 it was an obvious choice, I chose the single target for more AGI.  I can cast on five of us in group if I am not the MT and if I am MT it gives me the AGI to help me do my job, i.e. not die.  What I didn't anticipate was that the buffs would not stack and after grouping with a pally of similar level and losing aggro to him every fight even when using redemtion on the Assasin, I found that the extra 5% aggro from the group buff was amazingly effective.  So effective that my friend cannot cast it when not main tank.  </P> <P>If I were to respec right now, I would still choose Palin but instead I would take the group at forty.  That would still give me the 19 AGI plus I could get the additional aggro from the group buff.  Then I would go adept 3 on the single target buff.  Best of both worlds.</P> <P>I know some swear by the LoH or the lower cost heal but i used Palin fifty times more than anyone used the heal or the LoH maybe more.  It is kind of like a collecters car...ya it is nice but are you gonna drive it?  You can drive the Palin all the way to fifty.  </P>

[uzhiel feathered serpe]

<DIV>Both can be cast while moving.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Uzhiel, lvl 50 Paladin, Eternal Chaos, Faydark.</DIV>

[Yrield]

<DIV> <DIV>Renar's blessed providence is the way to go, IMO</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>At lvl45 Renar's still my primary form of healing. 99MP for 500HP recast every 5sec, do the math here :smileyvery-happy:</DIV></DIV>

[prisoner]

<P>I too went the way of the heal.  I think my blessed aid sits at apprentice 2 still <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  Gonna have to upgrade it simply for mentoring I think.  With my style of play,  I help the healer out alot to save mana and downtime,  it just works really nice for me.  Before the respec,  I was very happy with my LoH upgrade,  but I found I wasn't using it as often as I thought I would.  Divine Vengeance is one of my most used spells,  so I would imagine any upgrade to it would also be extremely useful.  Whatever works for your style of play,  go for it <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </P> <P>17</P>

[YoD]

I took Palin's and even now at lev 41 it does more damage than Shatter Will at app 4. I solo more than I group so having a better combat spell that is used many times each fight is far more useful to me than a Heal that i could use use every 10 minutes

[Iustus]

<P>The 5% agro difference between Theron's Call of Hope and Call To Glory seems to me the most obvious choice, if you want to tank a lot. </P> <P>I am not clear on what choice is best at 30.</P> <P>-I</P>

[paladinwa]

<P>Let me see if I can summarize conclusions based upon your expected play style:</P> <P>(Note: all of these assume you have Adept 3 Heal, and you dont want to use your lvl 30 training upgrade on Renar's.)</P> <P>Grouping, primarily in Main-tank role:<BR>30 Palin's for dps and AGI bonus<BR>40 Theron's Call to transfer more hate</P> <P>Grouping, primarily in Off-tank role:<BR>30 either Jess' so you can cast LoH more often, OR Palin's to increase your dps and give you AGI buff to help out when you need it.<BR>40 Kasine's Piety so you can buff yourself and others</P> <P>Raid-oriented:  <BR>30 Jess' so you can cast LoH several times in lenghty raid battles<BR>40 Kasine's Piety so you can buff yourself and others</P> <P>Solo:<BR>30 Palin's for dps and AGI bonus or Jess' so that your emergency heal is refreshed faster<BR>40 Not sure here, due to lack of available data. Maybe Hran's (for increased chance of stunning opponent), OR Arem's (for more dps, but be careful, regular Oath Strike upgrade seems to be Sworn Strike at lvl 42.6). Or maybe Kasine's Piety for when Palin's eventually gets obsoleted by Shatter Will at higher levels.  The soloing case is the hardest one to figure out, due to lack of available info. </P> <P>For a Mix of Grouping (in both main tank and off tank role) and Soloing:</P> <P>30 either Jess' or Palin's  (still not sure)<BR>40 Kasine's Piety, as it is the most versatile art</P> <P> </P><p>Message Edited by paladinwayy on <span class=date_text>04-13-2005</span> <span class=time_text>07:44 AM</span>

[Walnu]

I went with Jees...never wanted to go back.