Axes & Great Axes Coming Soon!

[Orkoma]

<DIV>Thought I would post this link in case all Paladins didn't see this.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=9&message.id=8026&page=1" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=9&message.id=8026&page=1</A></DIV>

[uzhiel feathered serpe]

<DIV>Is anyone else concerned about Moors post? after 3 months they come out and say it was always intended for palys to get hosed on weapon selection. Nice..it would have been better to know from the beggining.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now lets see:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Berserker- more mitigation, more DPS, usage of slahing ,crushing, piercing and ranged items</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Guardians-WAY more mitigation, lower DPS, usage of slashing, crushing, piercing and ranged items.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Monks-more DPS, less mitigation, usage of slashing, crushing, piercing and ranged items.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Bruisers-same as monks, slightly more DPS.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So, let me get this straight..we gave up all this and the stats loss so we can LOH every 30 MINUTES?! and our buffs? EVERY fighter class gets buffs, some are  much better than ours.  So what exactly did we get in return for our heals?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I thought DPS followed with mitigation/evasion..so by that rationale we should be behind monks/bruisers in DPS, but thats questionable.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I played my paly to 48, because I thought our [Removed for Content] were bugs, since NO DEV ever came on to say what Moorgard just told us, 4 MONTHS into the game.  Thx again SOE.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I love my Paly and I have done the best with him that I can, even though it seems I'm having to fight SoE to improve him, instead of A_RAID_MOB_01</DIV> <P>By the way, the reason why piercing is important is because some raid MOBS are immune to slashing and crushing. So get ready to be on the sidelines if you raid these MOBS.</P><p>Message Edited by uzhiel feathered serpent on <span class=date_text>03-16-2005</span> <span class=time_text>06:27 AM</span>

[Seomon]

I'm not really concerned, except that he basically said "You'll never get polearms so stop asking." We'll need to try and show them that as a tank we need to be able to use all damage types or else we and our groups are SOL on mobs that are crushing and slashing resist. Some of us are the MTs for our guilds.

[Lairdragna]

I think the bigger issue is piercing in general.  If certain mobs are unaffected by crushing or slashing, then we are seriously gimped.  Our damage spells are mediocre.  Great, the mage next to use can hit the mob with a dagger but we can't with a prismatic longsword of scale?

[Coyt]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> uzhiel feathered serpent wrote:<BR> <DIV>Is anyone else concerned about Moors post? after 3 months they come out and say it was always intended for palys to get hosed on weapon selection. Nice..it would have been better to know from the beggining.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now lets see:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Berserker- more mitigation, more DPS, usage of slahing ,crushing, piercing and ranged items</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Guardians-WAY more mitigation, lower DPS, usage of slashing, crushing, piercing and ranged items.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Monks-more DPS, less mitigation, usage of slashing, crushing, piercing and ranged items.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Bruisers-same as monks, slightly more DPS.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So, let me get this straight..we gave up all this and the stats loss so we can LOH every 30 MINUTES?! and our buffs? EVERY fighter class gets buffs, some are  much better than ours.  So what exactly did we get in return for our heals?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I thought DPS followed with mitigation/evasion..so by that rationale we should be behind monks/bruisers in DPS, but thats questionable.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I played my paly to 48, because I thought our [Removed for Content] were bugs, since NO DEV ever came on to say what Moorgard just told us, 4 MONTHS into the game.  Thx again SOE.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I love my Paly and I have done the best with him that I can, even though it seems I'm having to fight SoE to improve him, instead of A_RAID_MOB_01</DIV> <P>By the way, the reason why piercing is important is because some raid MOBS are immune to slashing and crushing. So get ready to be on the sidelines if you raid these MOBS.</P> <P>Message Edited by uzhiel feathered serpent on <SPAN class=date_text>03-16-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>06:27 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Please explain to me how Gaurds and Zerks get more mitigation then Pallys ? expecialy a dual weilding Zerk with no sheild ? Gaurds get tower sheilds but this is hardly WAY more. So please enlighten me.</DIV>

[uzhiel feathered serpe]

<DIV><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=4&message.id=5006#M5006" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=4&message.id=5006#M5006</A></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=4&message.id=4608#M4608" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=4&message.id=4608#M4608</A></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Pay particular attention to the part where it says crusaders are MEANT to use shields when tanking</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <DIV>"Berserkers can wear the same armor and wield the same shields as guardians. There are no hidden mitigation bonuses for either class, so a berserker and a guardian of the same level, stats, and skills with the same armor/shield combo will have the same base avoidance and mitigation. Guardians have arts that give them increased defensive capabilities, while berserkers have arts that give them increased offense. That's the key difference between the two warrior classes. Keep in mind that if you play a berserker and are not using a shield while tanking, you're missing out on a huge part of the tank's damage avoidance capability. Crusader and warrior classes are intended to use shields while acting as a tank."</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This in effect means that you can tank just fine dual wielding, whereas we have to use SHIELDS to just even us out. Granted it says that if bers use shields they wont take as much damage, but it clearly says that while you can tank either way, we take it a hit if we dont. All things being equal, a bers AC is higher that a paly when in identical gear, even when not using a shield, for the same reason guards have more ac and hit points than paly's.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Ask a healer if a paly using a one hander and a guard/bers using a one hander will take as much damage. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also, there are rumors that when parsed, Bers and Guards actually have better avoidance/ mitigation than monks/ bruisers..there are whispers in their forums of this.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I am not calling for nerfs..I am calling for crusaders to be put on par with the other classes. HEALS do not make up for the defficiencies...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If guards have the best defensive buffs and bers have the best offensive buffs..a Palys utility is.... ??? wards, heals? why, healer types can ward/ heal for more..in some instances we can dish out good DPS, but then if a raid mobs resists our damage and our offensive buffs are not as good as a bers, then what??</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I know we bring added utility and I sincerely think palys rock, but we ARE gimped..there is no question of this.</DIV></DIV>

[Coyt]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> uzhiel feathered serpent wrote:<BR> <DIV><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=4&message.id=5006#M5006" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=4&message.id=5006#M5006</A></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=4&message.id=4608#M4608" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=4&message.id=4608#M4608</A></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Pay particular attention to the part where it says crusaders are MEANT to use shields when tanking</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <DIV>"Berserkers can wear the same armor and wield the same shields as guardians. There are no hidden mitigation bonuses for either class, so a berserker and a guardian of the same level, stats, and skills with the same armor/shield combo will have the same base avoidance and mitigation. Guardians have arts that give them increased defensive capabilities, while berserkers have arts that give them increased offense. That's the key difference between the two warrior classes. Keep in mind that if you play a berserker and are not using a shield while tanking, you're missing out on a huge part of the tank's damage avoidance capability. Crusader and warrior classes are intended to use shields while acting as a tank."</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This in effect means that you can tank just fine dual wielding, whereas we have to use SHIELDS to just even us out. Granted it says that if bers use shields they wont take as much damage, but it clearly says that while you can tank either way, we take it a hit if we dont. All things being equal, a bers AC is higher that a paly when in identical gear, even when not using a shield, for the same reason guards have more ac and hit points than paly's.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Ask a healer if a paly using a one hander and a guard/bers using a one hander will take as much damage. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also, there are rumors that when parsed, Bers and Guards actually have better avoidance/ mitigation than monks/ bruisers..there are whispers in their forums of this.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I am not calling for nerfs..I am calling for crusaders to be put on par with the other classes. HEALS do not make up for the defficiencies...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If guards have the best defensive buffs and bers have the best offensive buffs..a Palys utility is.... ??? wards, heals? why, healer types can ward/ heal for more..in some instances we can dish out good DPS, but then if a raid mobs resists our damage and our offensive buffs are not as good as a bers, then what??</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I know we bring added utility and I sincerely think palys rock, but we ARE gimped..there is no question of this.</DIV></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Your links say nothing about the mitigation inferiority of the Pally. Please offer proof that Gards and Zerks have better damage mitigation. I dont belive it exhists but if you can provide it ill conceede your point. And while you looking check out this link where Deis shows quite convincingly how Pallys are actually better defensively.</P> <P><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=10&message.id=6186&view=by_date_ascending&page=2" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=10&message.id=6186&view=by_date_ascending&page=2</A><BR></P> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Oops typo</DIV><p>Message Edited by Coytee on <span class=date_text>03-16-2005</span> <span class=time_text>03:53 PM</span>

[Minionofpa]

<DIV>Guardians get several defence skill buffs that stack, their stance buffs slashing, piercing mitigation and greatly increased crushing mitigation and their group offensive buff buffs parry skill.  Also, if they took braksans desprate rally, they have 4 hp buffs that all stack.  They can choose a training skill that buffs spell avoid by 4 aswell.  Considering all we get is a gimpy insta heal that costs hella power and one instant cast heal(LOH) that can only be used once (on raids when you need sustained healing it really dont make much of a dif) every 30 mins, we should get some defensive abils to make up for the fact that they can use all damage types and duel weild.  As for dps, yeah guards get all the dps a pally gets if they duel weild, more even if they use their master rage proc buff cause with 2 short delay weapons they swing 2-3 times as much as a pally and proc 2-3 times as much and yeah thats alot considering the buffs proc once every 4 swings.  I have compaired this on a parcer, a gaurd with all the same buffs as me did around the same damage as i was while i was spamming 9 seperate attacks, and alot more dps when he used his mastery rage at the same time as me (he clocked just over 250, i was a little over 200).  The only time we would be able to match a guard tanking is if the mob has a divine nuke that doesnt stop when the mob runs out of power and i have yet to see one of those.  Ive also niticed that a few of my attacks dont do what they say they do and its been 4 months since the first pally has hit 50........yeah, pallys need serious work.</DIV> <P>Message Edited by Minionofpain on <SPAN class=date_text>03-16-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>05:01 PM</SPAN> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN>  <P><SPAN class=time_text>~Trudge lvl 50 Paladin Neriak server</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by Minionofpain on <span class=date_text>03-16-2005</span> <span class=time_text>05:02 PM</span>

[Minionofpa]

<DIV>bah doubble post~</DIV><p>Message Edited by Minionofpain on <span class=date_text>03-16-2005</span> <span class=time_text>05:02 PM</span>

[Coyt]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Minionofpain wrote:<BR> <DIV>Guardians get several defence skill buffs that stack, their stance buffs slashing, piercing mitigation and greatly increased crushing mitigation and their group offensive buff buffs parry skill.  Also, if they took braksans desprate rally, they have 4 hp buffs that all stack.  They can choose a training skill that buffs spell avoid by 4 aswell.  Considering all we get is a gimpy insta heal that costs hella power and one instant cast heal(LOH) that can only be used once (on raids when you need sustained healing it really dont make much of a dif) every 30 mins, we should get some defensive abils to make up for the fact that they can use all damage types and duel weild.  As for dps, yeah guards get all the dps a pally gets if they duel weild, more even if they use their master rage proc buff cause with 2 short delay weapons they swing 2-3 times as much as a pally and proc 2-3 times as much and yeah thats alot considering the buffs proc once every 4 swings.  I have compaired this on a parcer, a gaurd with all the same buffs as me did around the same damage as i was while i was spamming 9 seperate attacks, and alot more dps when he used his mastery rage at the same time as me (he clocked just over 250, i was a little over 200).  The only time we would be able to match a guard tanking is if the mob has a divine nuke that doesnt stop when the mob runs out of power and i have yet to see one of those.  Ive also niticed that a few of my attacks dont do what they say they do and its been 4 months since the first pally has hit 50........yeah, pallys need serious work.</DIV> <P>Message Edited by Minionofpain on <SPAN class=date_text>03-16-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>05:01 PM</SPAN> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> <P><SPAN class=time_text>~Trudge lvl 50 Paladin Neriak server</SPAN></P> <P>Message Edited by Minionofpain on <SPAN class=date_text>03-16-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>05:02 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>Thanks for the info, I can see how being able to stack almost a dozen such buffs could be considered quite advantagious defensively.</DIV>

[Miracole]

<blockquote><hr>uzhiel feathered serpent wrote: <DIV>Is anyone else concerned about Moors post? after 3 months they come out and say it was always intended for palys to get hosed on weapon selection. Nice..it would have been better to know from the beggining.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now lets see:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Berserker- more mitigation, more DPS, usage of slahing ,crushing, piercing and ranged items</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Guardians-WAY more mitigation, lower DPS, usage of slashing, crushing, piercing and ranged items.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Monks-more DPS, less mitigation, usage of slashing, crushing, piercing and ranged items.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Bruisers-same as monks, slightly more DPS.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So, let me get this straight..we gave up all this and the stats loss so we can LOH every 30 MINUTES?! and our buffs? EVERY fighter class gets buffs, some are much better than ours. So what exactly did we get in return for our heals?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I thought DPS followed with mitigation/evasion..so by that rationale we should be behind monks/bruisers in DPS, but thats questionable.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I played my paly to 48, because I thought our [Removed for Content] were bugs, since NO DEV ever came on to say what Moorgard just told us, 4 MONTHS into the game. Thx again SOE.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I love my Paly and I have done the best with him that I can, even though it seems I'm having to fight SoE to improve him, instead of A_RAID_MOB_01</DIV> <P>By the way, the reason why piercing is important is because some raid MOBS are immune to slashing and crushing. So get ready to be on the sidelines if you raid these MOBS.</P><p>Message Edited by uzhiel feathered serpent on <span class=date_text>03-16-2005</span> <span class=time_text>06:27 AM</span><hr></blockquote>the question is, why are you even trying to compare us with other fighter???????????????????????????????????????saem on started a "problem list" with 1 purpose, to get our BROKEN spell fixed, plain and simple. and after a month we are starting to see PROGRESS, a couple things are addressed in the test server patch and i am certain there is more to come.we had 1, only ONE, consolidated thread on the spell/combatart forum and we got some attention because we acted a little bit more noble and less [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]ing irrataing than the rest of the crowds.people like you should go play coercer and fury, because apparently you will fit right in their role, in the forums at least. oh the illusionist get this and we don't, nerf them. oh the warden can heal 100 tiems better than us fury, nerf them. get your head out of your [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] man! if you don't think pally is up for the job, delete your toon and reroll a guardian or a zerker. honestly, how about let's get our broken stuff fixed first then have YOU and a couple other [Removed for Content] [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]ing and moaning about pallies are not as good as other fighters (are you out of your mind???).

[GilfalasElaandrin]

<DIV> <HR> Crusader <STRONG><U><EM>and warrior</EM> </U></STRONG>classes are intended to use shields while acting as a tank <HR> </DIV> <DIV>You cannot just lift crusaders out of the statement and say we are lesser tanks because if it. It quite clearly states crusader <STRONG><EM><U>and warrior</U></EM></STRONG> classes were designed with shields in mind for tanking. Warrior classes are guardian and berserker. Crusader classes are SK and Paladin. ALL 4 were designed with shields in mind for tanking.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Nowhere at all does it even intimate that we have some sort of lower intrinsic defensive abilties.</DIV>

[HordesLo]

    I don`t need no stinkng shield! I`ll stand there naked and bare fisted and tank raid mobs, My faith will protect me.

[Hawgeous]

Might I suggest investing in a sheer bone kite cup, faith only goes so far...  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[uzhiel feathered serpe]

<P>Hey, miracole..umm..go f*ck yourself....just wanted to throw that in, love to see u raid a lvl 55 MOB and u cant hit it because u nerfed in the weps section.</P> <P>Also, what the hell am I supposed to compare Paladins to? other Tanks? no [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot], eh? what a concept!</P> <P>You obviously havent read any of my other posts, as I have CLEARLY stated every time that I do not want guards nerfed, but there ARE imbalances in tanks, not matter how blind  u want to be about it.</P> <P>Dont worry though, I'll continue to stick up for cowards like you who just keep their fingers crossed and hope the Devs get around to fixing us. </P> <P>As for keeping all our broken skills in one thread..well..we can see how well that works, just ask the classes that have had those "consolidated" threads out there for MONTHS without seeing much relief.</P> <P>Uzhiel, lvl 50 Paladin, Eternal Chaos, Faydark.</P> <P> </P>

[uzhiel feathered serpe]

<P>As for Mr Gilfalas...hmn..let me explain something to you. </P> <P>We have 3 taunts at lvl 50, and one of them is based on using a shield. Guards have 6 taunts on different timers.</P> <P>Yes, all tank classes were designed with shields in mind, but Guards and Zerks have ALOT better aggro management techniques than we do. Again and again I have stated that I do not want other tank classes nerfed, I just want Palys to be put on par with the other mitigation tanks.</P> <P>Uzhiel, lvl 50 Paladin, Eternal Chaos, Faydark.</P>

[Dwergux]

<span><blockquote><hr>uzhiel feathered serpent wrote:<div></div> <p>As for Mr Gilfalas...hmn..let me explain something to you. </p> <p>We have 3 taunts at lvl 50, and one of them is based on using a shield. Guards have 6 taunts on different timers.</p> <p>Yes, all tank classes were designed with shields in mind, but Guards and Zerks have ALOT better aggro management techniques than we do. Again and again I have stated that I do not want other tank classes nerfed, I just want Palys to be put on par with the other mitigation tanks.</p> <p>Uzhiel, lvl 50 Paladin, Eternal Chaos, Faydark.</p><hr></blockquote>Taunt isn't the only combatart / spell  required to maintain and/or grab aggro. (Howelse can a healer grab aggro, they have 0 taunts)</span><div></div>

[Miracole]

<span><blockquote><hr>uzhiel feathered serpent wrote:<p>Hey, miracole..umm..go f*ck yourself....just wanted to throw that in, love to see u raid a lvl 55 MOB and u cant hit it because u nerfed in the weps section. </p> <p><font color="#ff9966">just did. i mean the f*cking myself part. thanks for the reminder, it was great.</font> </p> <p>Also, what the hell am I supposed to compare Paladins to? other Tanks? no [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot], eh? what a concept! </p> <p><font color="#ff9966">you know what, you are right. go ahead. compare. COMPARE your little heart out. then go cry in the corner. oh wait, you don't do that... you embarass yourself and everyone here on the board by being [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot].... that's right....</font> </p> <p>You obviously havent read any of my other posts, as I have CLEARLY stated every time that I do not want guards nerfed, but there ARE imbalances in tanks, not matter how blind  u want to be about it. </p><font color="#ff9966">well the reason(s) i or anybody here don't take anything you say seriously is because it is igorant and ridiculous, i will prove it to you...</font> <p>Dont worry though, I'll continue to stick up for cowards like you who just keep their fingers crossed and hope the Devs get around to fixing us. </p> <p><font color="#ff9966">thank you for trying to represent us paladins, but i have to say you are doing a lousy job of it.... just look at your supporters, oh wait, there is none...</font> </p> <p>As for keeping all our broken skills in one thread..well..we can see how well that works, just ask the classes that have had those "consolidated" threads out there for MONTHS without seeing much relief. </p> <p><font color="#ff9966">here is the funny thing that i really need to mention. you know why all the other threads don't get fixed? honestly, the answer is quite simple, because those threads are full of people like you... i mean, yeah enough said. our thread was out for barely 2 patches and a number of things got fixed because hmm, we don't act like you and don't expect anyone to [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] and moan like you... you are not sticking up for paladins, you are ruining everything we stand for. seriously, reroll please. you are better hanging out with the "nerf illusionists because us coercer got nerfed crowd". really. </font></p> <p><font color="#ff9966">you asked me who you should compare to, i say why compare at all.... you like who you are and have fun with it. if you think we are gimped then it's your own opinion, and from what i read that's really the minority, by far *maybe just yourself holiness". and i'm sorry you feel like that. i wish there is something any of us can do to make you feel better *actually i'm not sorry and i don't give a sh*t how you feel*, but just please keep your opinion to yourself or go cry on guardian's board, because i am pretty sure everyone here is pretty tired of your B.S. </font></p> <p><font color="#ff9966">and btw, guards get exactly the same number of taunts we do. just ask them. i don't know where you pull that information out of, probably your holy rear... </font></p> <p>Uzhiel, lvl 50 Paladin, Eternal Chaos, Faydark.</p> <div></div><hr></blockquote></span><div></div>

[Roble]

Most raid mobs are slash resistant, so you need crush and piercing.  So adding axes is not a great help, but it is still a welcome change.  It would be nice to be able to use lances, and have the lances do more damage from horseback.  It would be a good pulling strategy.