Lets get something straight about guardians amd Paladins.

[Chia_Pet]

The are of the same class, ie MAIN TANK.they come from the crosader, and you get your choice, both should be able to equally tank, as they are the MAIN TANK SUBCLASSES.so enough already, there is no Paladin sghould be worse at tanking then the Guardian, THEY ARE BOTH THE MAIN TANK SUBCLASSES.got it yet? sheesh.

[Gwyd]

<DIV>Not to be argumentative, but Guardians don't come from the crusader subclass, they come from Warriors.  They DO both start as fighters though.  </DIV>

[Bladezil]

<DIV>Paladins are just better than Guardians.. no argument. :robotwink:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm just teasing. No seriously.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#330099 size=6>- Bladezilla Killa -</FONT></DIV></DIV>

[Tears_]

Guardians get that ability which agro's the mob with every attack they do, they also have more HP and higher AC due to the tower shieldThey are NOT the same, however, id rather have a paladin any day, the emergancy heals, DoF/FZ and the extra buffage in my opinion puts paladins ahead of the game for main tank,

[Jum]

<DIV>What Blade said. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I dont know how many fights my wards and heals made the diff between living and whipe out.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I dont know how any times my ward and heals saved a group members life when we had an add or I lost agro(it happens to the best of us :smileytongue: )</DIV><p>Message Edited by Jumex on <span class=date_text>12-21-2004</span> <span class=time_text>02:41 AM</span>

[RAYVEN2]

<DIV>I agree paladins seem like the better main tank atleast at my level.  I can keep argo easy by casting divine inspiration before the fight , using my AOE taunt to get all the argo on me and then hitting myself with faithful zeal to protect against the first few hits and also generate more hate.  I always make sure redemption is on the cleric since it gets me extra argo.  I can stop damage and heal.  I was level 27 last night fight giants and the templar was pretty much full on mana most of the time.  My AC is just as good as a guardian my level it seems.  They tend to have like 25 points more ac and thats nothing.  My other abilities make up for that gap easy.  </DIV>

[Brist]

<DIV>With a healer Guardians tank better than Paladins</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Without a healer Paladins tank better than Guardians</DIV>

[Deltree_c]

<DIV>I'm kind of in the middle.  Swarms of greens and a few lower blues, I can tank without taking damage mostly. White and yellows (not yellow+ or ++ though) I can tank all right.  I can solo whites and yellows still with minimum difficulty.  However, yellow++ and higher and I tend to get absolutely chewed up.  I'm not ashamed to admit it, nor am I overprotective of my class.  Guardians, however, seem to love getting the wards and AC buffs from us, and pinch healing doesn't hurt either, so it's definitely a team thing for me.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Keeping in mind I've only been a paladin for 2.8 levels now, but these are just my observations thus far.  I remember being level 58 in EQ1 and seeing things hit for 500, and I absolutely freaked out.  Now stuff hits like that in the 20s, and it's like, eh, whatever.  And before I get pounced upon for drawing comparisons between the two games, <EM>don't</EM>.  It's still just numbers and ratios.</DIV>

[Animox]

Deltree, if you are not tanking yellow ++ easily then you need to upgrade your armor and spells--plain and simple. I took advantage of the 50% bonus to go from 22.9 to 25.2. The only time I pulled anything less than a yellow ++ was to clear an area so we could get to the harder stuff or if someone in the group needed the mob for a quest. It has been my experience that most every mob in the game crits on the first strike for 2, 3 or even 4x their normal damage and then returns to normal. After that, one can stay green with DoF and a good healer most of the time. If I am grouped with a shaman, I find that I rarely even see yellow on my health bar. Also do not neglect the "right" side of your inventory screen. I just finished AQ6 with a fellow paladin last night. The armor side of our inventory is identical but my AC is 1400, while his is 1188.

[Noctivag]

<DIV>I play both.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Guardian is a better tank you will see this more at higher levels.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Paladins can tank sure, but if you have an equal level guardian in the group and equal level gear etc.  Guardian is main tank and Paladin is secondary.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Just the way it is and how its meant to be, if it wasnt who would want to be a guardian.</DIV>

[Renn]

I haven't seen them tanking any better than me yet. I've not even seen one my level with more AC than me. Plus they don't have the heals or wards... Last night I was in a group of lower 30's, I was the lowest at level 30, and had no issues tanking groups of 39-41 mobs. A guardian would have died 100% in that situation without the ability to heal or ward himself from a bad run of mob swings.

[RAYVEN2]

<DIV>I think it all depends.  If both a paladin and a guardian are in the same group then the guardian is the MT.  It just makes sence since you can buff him, ward him, heal him and give him extra AC.  You can make the guardian into a better tank than either of you would be alone.  Infact this is true of any other tank class and the paladin being in the same group provided they are of equal level.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now when you only need one tank and its between the paladin and the guardian then the choice becomes a little harder.  I tend to think the paladin is the better choice if you need to choose between the two.  The paladin can heal and ward himself leaving more mana for the cleric.  The paladin, if hes as well equipt as the guardian, should have slightly less AC but his other abilities more than make up for that.  A well played paladin is a downright awesome MT.  Since paladins have a bunch of argo generating abilities(redemption, divine inspiration, faithful zeal) not including taunts they can hold argo with the best of them.   Problem here is that a paladin *HAS* to know what hes doing.  If he does'nt then hes a horrible MT and horrible at holding argo!  This is what makes people think guardians are the only main tank class.  Guardian abilities are more straight forward making them easier to play and therefore groups need to worry less about skill.    </DIV>

[Krikey]

<DIV>I play a Paladin.  I can MT just fine and often do in groups.  When there is a Gaurdian availiable tho, I let them MT, with my abilities I can make a good Guardian an awsome Guardian.  I make him tougher than he would be alone, and I watch for adds, and take mobs of of our casters and healers if they get agro or get attacked.  Either of us make good MTs, but Paladins are phenomanal secondary tanks.  Together, a Paladin and a Guardian make a group much better.</DIV>

[Falgar]

<DIV>I am currently lvl 34 Paladin and in my regular circle of friends I am usually the secondary tank. We have a 35 Guardian that MT's usually.  Simple fact is the guardian has better taunts and can hold aggro better.  When he is not there I can tank just as good but i prefer being in the secondary roll and have the power to ward patch heal and use my other abilities to help the group. That and I love pulling out the big 2hander and going to town <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[Bladezil]

<DIV>Guardians do more DPS when they can use two weapons. They are better suited to off tanking and contributing if groups get adds. If the mob is agroed on the Paladin, he can cast through the mob and heal/ward himself without ever changing targets.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So, either way is good.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Just wait till they patch the built in shields for brawlers.. then we can have more fun arguments.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#330099 size=7>- Bladezilla Killa -</FONT></DIV>

[asteldian]

<DIV> <DIV>Well both make great tanks, i think pally makes the better secondary tank than guardian thuogh...having said that, the guardian does have a few amazing abilities...(shrug) i think the very fact that these debates keep happening shows us that SOE have actually done a [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] good job with the classes, not perfect but darn good.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As for monks in built shields... you think its going to make things interestiing?  dont see how its going to effect this debate.  Glad its happening though, should have happened from day 1 really, monks with shields looked silly.  Course, a lot of monks will disagree, they sacrifice the looking good for a shield, the built in shield is nice in theory, but will actually suck for a lot of monks out there.   Those that prefered to dual wield and 2h instead of have the extra defense will love it since they gained something for nothing, but those that did use a shield wont be happy, built in shield will make them worse off because they arent allowed to use a shield anymore and i guarantee this 'built in shield' will be no where near the standard of the shields in game.</DIV></DIV>