Ghoulbane usable by all sword wielding classes? GB should be paladin only!

[RAYVEN2]

<DIV>Is the Ghoulbane usable by all sword wielding classes?  I have the weakened version and I see no class restrictions on the blade.  This is a big oversight by SOE if its true.  This is a holy blade from EQ1 and was paladin only in EQ1.  The ghoulbane should be paladin only in EQ2.  The quest even implies that only paladins have wielded the sword.  The last wielder of the GB according to the quest is a paladin who  dies with the blade and his corpse and the sword are taken to the ToV which is a resting place for the stormlord paladin order..  If just anyone can use this sword then its no longer a holy blade.   GB should be paladin only.     </DIV>

[Bladezil]

<DIV>Agreed.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=4>- Bladezilla -</FONT></DIV>

[TormEQ2]

<DIV>If indeed the weakened version can be "recharged" then yes, the recharged version should be paladin only like the original version of the blade. However the weakened version I don't have a problem with the other sword using classes holding. The blade itself is weak in it's first version and thus might pick a lesser champion to wield it till such a time as it's former glory can be restored.</DIV>

[RioR]

<DIV>Rayven2 is very correct. I don't care how watered down Ghoulbane v.1.0 is. If anyone can wield it then this is a big slap in the face to paladins. This could be heartbreaking if SOE screwed up this bad. I'm posting this without knowing all the details just yet. I just hope that Ghoulbane ultimately becomes paladin only. Maybe it was an oversight or a bug that others can wield it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Dyvan]

I have to agree with this post. Watching my friend (Ranger) run around with a Weakened Ghoulbane in his inventory just puts off the wrong vibe. That's like me running around dual-wielding Swiftwind and Earthcaller(name?). It's against nature. All they'd have to do is make the end result use Determined Faith rather than Sword.

[TormEQ2]

<DIV>Well the thing is everyone from Qeynos can get the quest and thus anyone should ultimately hold a finished product in their hands given the time and effort it takes to get the first version. Anything else would be unfair in a system that has very few class quests so far. (atleast from what I've seen up till 21st level).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Once further quests are discovered / added that allows us to restore the Ghoulbane *then* we can talk about it being paladin only, but the first version I have zero problems with everyone eventually earning given the effort required and the minor task required to start the quest. (which many people have no idea of the direction it takes eventually).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Ultimately I would very much like more Class based quests then what I have seen so far. Hopefully that is something I can look forward to in the future, but given my rate of advancement (I suffer from altitis amongst other things <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />) I suspect SoE has a good while.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Dyvan]

The *other* quests you mentioned to restore the Ghoulbane are already in the game. However, the last mob everyone needs is in RoV and is currently bugged and breaks the encounter once you aggro him. (Was posted in another thread by a dev.) I don't mind people doing the quest, but being able to use the sword doesn't make sense. Just because someone does the Shiny Brass Halberd quest doesn't mean they should be able to use it. I know we can't, it's a spear. In my opinion, Paladins shouldn't be able to use spears (That's fine, it goes strongly with what Paladins are.) and no one but Paladins should be able to use Holy Blades.<p>Message Edited by Dyvanos on <span class=date_text>12-15-2004</span> <span class=time_text>09:59 AM</span>

[Dewfi]

*yawn*Why do you care who has what? I mean really people, if they want to do the quest let them, its a sword for crying out loud...

[loregaz]

<DIV>Sometimes a sword is not just a sword, like a cigar is not just a cigar.  It adds some uniqueness to the game to have class-only items, and the ghoulbane has historically been distinctive of the paladin.  I agree that more class-specific quests need to be added but that doesn't take away from the point at hand here.</DIV>

[TormEQ2]

<DIV>As I said, I'm waiting for the results of the restoration before going up in arms about it. A weakened holy blade might chose another champion till both it's power and it's will is restored</DIV>

[Gilasil]

If Ghoulbane were only useable by paladins then other classes MUST be able to get something at least as good.

[SirKarr]

<DIV>I'll have to agree that the restored Ghoulbane should be Paladin only. The "history" of the sword in EQ 1 was rather nice to know the first time my Paladin held it in his hands, and I used that sword with pride even at level 60 against undead mobs.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> I would very much like to know that the heritage of the sword in EQ 2 allows it to retain it's holy status. I do like the weakened sword needed restored idea, and can't wait for my new Paladin to hold it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[RioR]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Dewfire wrote:<BR>*yawn*<BR><BR>Why do you care who has what? I mean really people, if they want to do the quest let them, its a sword for crying out loud...<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> Please come back when you have a clue about the paladin class and holy swords.

[RioR]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gilasil wrote:<BR>If Ghoulbane were only useable by paladins then other classes MUST be able to get something at least as good.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>As a soon to be paladin, I agree 100%. </FONT></DIV> <DIV></FONT></DIV> <DIV>Now SOE needs to fix the problem.</FONT></DIV><p>Message Edited by RioRio on <span class=date_text>12-15-2004</span> <span class=time_text>10:47 AM</span>

[RyanLy]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> SirKarrik wrote:<BR> <DIV>The "history" of the sword in EQ 1 was rather nice to know the first time my Paladin held it in his hands, <HR> </DIV> <DIV>In the beginning (and for a few years) the Ghoulbane was only a drop from a Paladin Froglok in Guk, pretty darn rare too. <grin> </DIV> <DIV>Also in EQ Shadowknights needed to corrupt it to work in their epic (I think)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>On topic, I doubt it will be paladin only, with the way the quest text goes (after finishing the Dusty Blue Stone) , theres no indication that it will be paladin only.</DIV> <DIV>Can't Berik, The Sword of Thunder can be considered a holy sword as well? You have to prove your worth to weild that blade right? I believe the same can be said of the final Ghoulbane.</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>

[Matathi]

<blockquote><hr>Gilasil wrote:If Ghoulbane were only useable by paladins then other classes MUST be able to get something at least as good.<hr></blockquote> templars get to wear heavy armor. do they need it? rarely. but theres something called LORE. the ghoulbane should most definitely be pally only

[RAYVEN2]

<DIV>Once you have progressed far enough with the dusty blue stone that you have identified that the stone comes from the Ghoulbane you are told a story about the last owner of the blade.  The last owner was a paladin who despite his great power was overwhelmed by evil creatures and killed.  His body was taken to the crypt of the stormlords(ToV) which is the final resting place of paladins of the stormlord order.  This blade is clearly intended to be a paladin sword like it was in EQ1.   </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Someone mentioned here that the Ghoulbane should not be paladin only until similar weapons are in the game for other classes.  Fact is that these weapon may already be in the game.  I know there is a heritage quest for the short sword of Yakesha and a heritage quest for the Shiny Brass Halbred(which btw paladins can not use).  I'm sure knuckle dusters(i think they were called) the FBSS and a host of other EQ1 items are in the game.  They said they were adding the most popular items from EQ1 into EQ2 as heritage quests.  Its up to us to find those quests now.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Think about how limited the paladin is in terms of weapon selection.  A paladin can not DW and can only use crushing or slashing weapons with the exception of polearms that paladins can not use.    Its always been my understanding that this is on of the primary reasons there are paladin only weapons.  The holy sword is as important to what a paladin is as a horse.    </DIV><p>Message Edited by RAYVEN2 on <span class=date_text>12-15-2004</span> <span class=time_text>08:29 PM</span>

[Sant]

<DIV>I disagree, I see no reason that ghoulbane should be paladin only. One of my characters is a Swashbuckler and instead of dual wielding I like to use a really good one handed sword and a buckler. I am hopeing to replace my Berik, Sword of Thunder with Ghoulbane when I get to that level. I dont see any reason why a master swordsman Swashbuckler couldnt use it.</DIV>

[RAYVEN2]

<DIV>^ </DIV> <DIV>Did you read anything I wrote above you?  This is EQ2 right.  Its based on EQ1 right.  The lore of this game is based in EQ1.  The Ghoulbane was paladin only in EQ1 as it <EM>should</EM> be in EQ2.  The holy sword is a symbol of the paladin.  The holy sword is an important part of being a paladin.  When you ask people to discribe paladins you usually end up with buffing, healing, holy weapon using tank.  Going after weapons like Soulfire and Ghoulbane is why I made a paladin in EQ1.  Other classes have class specific weapons and I'm sure there is a quest for your weapon just the Ghoulbane should not be it.  It just does'nt seem right to me as a ex-EQ1 player turned EQ2 addict.    </DIV>

[Sant]

<DIV>Hey if they have weapons like Ghoulbane for swashbucklers then fine but if they dont then i want a piece of the action.</DIV>

[asteldian]

<DIV>Well, the very fact any race can be paladin is a slap in the face, so whether or not ghoulbane is pally only is not a big concern to me.  If an inky and iksar can be a pally then all holiness is gone from the class anyway so ghoulbane is not really much of a holy blade even if pally only</DIV>

[Stormreaver]

<DIV>There are no class restrictions on any item in EQ", only skill restrictions. Ghouldbane will be usable by anyone with the skill to use it. The Gods are gone, accept it.</DIV>

[Dwergux]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Stormreaver wrote:<BR> <DIV>There are no class restrictions on any item in EQ", only skill restrictions. Ghouldbane will be usable by anyone with the skill to use it. The Gods are gone, accept it.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> Aye, the blade might be usable by other classes, but the quest could prevent other classes from completing it.

[Trucalib]

<blockquote><hr>Dwergux wrote:<BR><BLOCKQUOTE><HR>Stormreaver wrote:<BR><DIV>There are no class restrictions on any item in EQ", only skill restrictions. Ghouldbane will be usable by anyone with the skill to use it. The Gods are gone, accept it.</DIV><BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Aye, the blade might be usable by other classes, but the quest could prevent other classes from completing it.<hr></blockquote>And as Dyvanos pointed out.... Having Determined Faith for Ghouldbane's skill would make it a Paladin-only sword. Hopefully SoE was smart enough to make it that way.

[RioR]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Stormreaver wrote:<BR> <DIV>There are no class restrictions on any item in EQ", only skill restrictions. Ghouldbane will be usable by anyone with the skill to use it. The Gods are gone, accept it.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <P>The gods maybe gone but devine power and restrictions still work. Unless clerics would not be able to cast spells. </P> <P>Paladins need to /bug this as being broken. Ghoulbane should be paladin only. Yes, I agree that the other classes should get something that is just as good. What the heck was SOE thinking?</P><p>Message Edited by RioRio on <span class=date_text>12-16-2004</span> <span class=time_text>06:56 AM</span>

[Seidr]

<DIV>I'm waiting until someone actually completes this quest.  Well, two people.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>One who is not a Paladin and one who is a Paladin.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If the Paladin is the only one to get a proc or some special affect, then I'm fine with everyone being able to do the quest.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If the final version is indeed Paladin only, then there would need to be some equivalent reward for other classes.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If Ghoulbane is useable by all classes in its true form, then I would hope that there would be other similarly historically significant weapons, which Paladins could aslo quest for.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In EQ2, allot of the history is just that....history.  The new world is a place, where Chaos has only just recently begun to lose its grip on the world, and still exerts allot of influence.  The Gods are not gone, but their influence is much more selective and secretive.  Additionally, items of power hunger to be restored and used, and care more about good and evil rather than how lawful you are or are not.  EQ2 is more polarized than EQ1.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In short, it's a new world out there people, EQ1 is dead, EQ2 is developing its own identity.</DIV>

[asteldian]

<DIV>Well like i said i see no reason fpr ghoulbane to be pally only, back when being a pally meant something then yes ghoulbane was a holy blade usable only by a holy noble crusader, but now you can even have dark elf paladins...Dark Elves FFs, created from hatred they are now running round as brave holy knights?  Forget Lore, cant use that as an excuse to have ghoulbane as pally only.  Course, no real reason i should argue against it being pally only what with being one myself.</DIV>

[RyanLy]

<DIV>Unreal, how can some of you be so stubborn/close-minded?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Any person working on the quest is actively attemptting to restore the weapon to it former power....to go thru the pita it is to do that....they should be "deemed worthy" to use the weapon.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>With the gods supposedly gone individuals are free to choose the life they <EM>want</EM>, it should never matter what race a paladin is....a paladin IS a paladin.</DIV>

[Keet]

<DIV>So pallies get horses for the "fluff" spell, want to be MTs along with guardians, can wear the heaviest armor alongside classes that get very little besides heavy armor, and now the sword that people are working there butts off to get, pallies are wanting it changed to pally only?   How about screw that....If this is the sample of "holy warriors" its no wonder the sword is willing to accept other weilders.</DIV>

[Ao]

<DIV> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff>[So pallies get horses for the "fluff" spell, want to be MTs along with guardians,]</FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff></FONT></SPAN> </P> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff>As do all fighters, this request is not unusual. we are FIGHTERS we want to tank, and yes if our armor and weapons and skills are upgraded better then the next available fighter then we want to be the choice for MT. We want equity, the guards are the ones that want to be the de-facto tank.</FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff></FONT></SPAN> </P> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff>I think the paladin and shadow knight pay for there horse by not have ANYTHING to put in ranged or ammo that is 2 slots of potential ac and stats that we give up for moderately useful non-combat speed buff. </FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff></FONT></SPAN> </P> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff></FONT></SPAN> </P> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff>[can wear the heaviest armor alongside classes that get very little besides heavy armor]</FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff></FONT></SPAN> </P> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff>What class could you possible be talking about, guards? Come on this is not eq1 that argument does not work anymore. you get just as many skills as we do. Have more weapon styles better shields the list goes on and on. "Very little beside heavy armor” is an old crutch guardian use to whine about others being able to do there jobs for once. . And don’t give me this “you get spells” crap because spells and combat arts are the same thing. Only you can move and use a combat art. <SPAN> </SPAN><SPAN> </SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff></FONT></SPAN> </P> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff></FONT></SPAN> </P> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff>[ and now the sword that people are working there butts off to get, pallies are wanting it changed to pally only?   How about screw that....If this is the sample of "holy warriors" its no wonder the sword is willing to accept other wielders.]</FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff></FONT></SPAN> </P> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff>I have not seen a single paladin on the board that has claimed to want to have a monopoly on good weapons. The ghoul bane is a holy weapon, it should only respond to paladins. How would the guards feel if we where suddenly given the jagged blade of war or some other similar warrior only weapon…</FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff></FONT></SPAN> </P> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff></FONT></SPAN> </P> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff>I want the ghoulbane to be paladin only, and yes I want other class specific weapons. </FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff></FONT></SPAN> </P> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff>“everyone is special” is another way of saying no one is. </FONT></SPAN></P></DIV>

[asteldian]

<DIV>Ghoulbane is a holy weapon, but a  paladin is not a holy knight anymore.</DIV>

[joewu05]

<DIV>Agreed !</DIV> <DIV>That's a very good suggestion </DIV>

[ThirdWiza]

<blockquote><hr>asteldian wrote:<DIV>Ghoulbane is a holy weapon, but a paladin is not a holy knight anymore.</DIV><hr></blockquote><blockquote><hr>SoE wrote:<DIV>Paladins are crusaders for all things good and right. Wearing heavy armor, these valiant defenders of truth fight for nobility, honor, and virtue.</DIV><hr></blockquote>Seems to be quite the holy knight to me. Fighting for honor with heavy armor on horseback while casting spells of healing and protection... hmm... could that sound like a holy knight? Spare me the whining that traditional evil races can now repent in their evil ways and take up the good fight. Next thing you're going to say is that a High Elf or Dwarven Shadowknight isn't evil. I don't buy it.

[asteldian]

<DIV>You betrayed your city, breaking their trust and fled to somewhere else, you are a traitor, dont go round telling me how nice a person you are and how truly holy and noble you may be.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Evil races can be pallies, fine but dont start [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]ing about a sword should only be usable by paladins,they are no more worthy than anyone else.</DIV>

[Ao]

<DIV> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff>That is completely asinine, the entire concept of a paladin is a Holy knight. Holiness and virtue of spirit transcend race. Also saying that because I betrayed the evil city I am not a good is [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot], if a [Removed for Content] betrayed Hitler would that not be a good act, what about the American revolution, where all of them evil betrayers? </FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff></FONT></SPAN> </P> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff>I am an ogre paladin, I choose to deny my maker and serve Mar’s light and the cause of good. I may have been created by Zek but in the moment I humbled before Mar, I was no longer his creation. Paladin stories are all about redemption, and hope. Your idiotic racism is not becoming of a knight of good, or for that matter any good character. </FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff></FONT></SPAN> </P> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff>If non paladins can use the ghoulbane, why can’t they also use lay on hands? Or bless weapon? I mean we could not possibly be saying that they are not holy enough to use those powers could we, give me a break. </FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff></FONT></SPAN> </P> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff>What gets me is that not only can non warriors use the thing, bleeping shadowknights can, I mean it is one thing to argue that any goodly person should be able to use it, it is quite another to argue that people zealously committed to the cause of evil should. <SPAN> </SPAN><SPAN> </SPAN><SPAN> </SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P></DIV>

[Ao]

<DIV> <DIV><A href="http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=2&q=asinine" target=_blank></A> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I can't belive it bleeped out r e t a r d e d , it is not even a bad word </DIV></DIV><p>Message Edited by Aohd on <span class=date_text>12-17-2004</span> <span class=time_text>06:17 AM</span>

[Keet]

<DIV>so your entire argument is based off :</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I am holier than thou, therefore I deserve to be equal in tanking AND get all the perks</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>spells = combat arts?  BS!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>a healing spell and a ward does not equate to being able to swing a special attack one more time when your class also gets special attacks they can spam just the same.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If that was the case then guardians and berzerkers are just some guys who can't do spells since you can do spells AND fight as well...what is the point of having any other tank classes in your eyes then?  It's called balance.  Having spells, combat arts, heavy armor, horses (and dont BS me and tell me my little glowing hand is any comparison) and having the best weapons made paladin only is not balance.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Besides if you can complete the quest to reassemble the sword would that in itself not prove your worth to the weapon?  Kinda like now, <STRONG>Soulfire</STRONG> was once the Pally weapon is now being held by an evil undead lich who took it from the hands of the Avatar of war, a decidedly NON paladin character.  Get off your high horse...literally.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Ao]

<DIV> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff></FONT></SPAN> </P> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff>[I am holier than thou, therefore I deserve to be equal in tanking AND get all the perks]</FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff></FONT></SPAN> </P> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff>And your reasoning is paladins get a horse therefore they should be paper tanks. That attitude is simple greed. <SPAN> </SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff></FONT></SPAN> </P> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff>Guardians have no right to be the be all end all tanks. All tanks should be able to do their job, tank. You scream about balance, but all you want is to be on top. </FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff></FONT></SPAN> </P> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff>[a healing spell and a ward does not equate to being able to swing a special attack one more time when your class also gets special attacks they can spam just the same.]</FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff></FONT></SPAN> </P> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff>Spells and combat arts are identical. Both have timers, both use power, both have an effect. You get buffs we get buffs you get attacks we get attacks. Your are geared towards different ends but they have no less of an effect then a spell does. And all your may be case while on the move, and have a much lessened chance of being interrupted. Besides your increased defense and ac serve the same purpose as our wards and heals, mitigating damage. <SPAN> </SPAN><SPAN> </SPAN><SPAN> </SPAN><SPAN> </SPAN><SPAN> </SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff></FONT></SPAN> </P> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff>[If that was the case then guardians and berzerkers are just some guys who can't do spells since you can do spells AND fight as well...what is the point of having any other tank classes in your eyes then?  It's called balance.  Having spells, combat arts, heavy armor, horses (and dont BS me and tell me my little glowing hand is any comparison) and having the best weapons made paladin only is not balance.] </FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff></FONT></SPAN> </P> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff>And having 4 more weapon options, the best defense in the game, heavy armor, the ability to use ranged weapons, and <SPAN> </SPAN>2 more armor slots then we have. It is called balance. If you’re so jealous of out abilities re-roll as a paladin. <SPAN> </SPAN><SPAN> </SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff></FONT></SPAN> </P> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff>Your NOT listening we don’t want the BEST weapons we just want OUR weapons, the ghoulbane is OUR weapon. <SPAN> </SPAN>We want you to have YOUR weapons too. There are presently a lot more weapons that a warriors can use that we cannot then the other way around. How about all duel weapons all tower shields all pole arms, all spears, and all axes become paladin usable then we will talk about warrior getting out holy swords. <SPAN> </SPAN><SPAN> </SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff></FONT></SPAN> </P> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff>[Besides if you can complete the quest to reassemble the sword would that in itself not prove your worth to the weapon?]</FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff></FONT></SPAN> </P> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff>Your using circular logic. “Because we can complete the quest means that we should be able to complete the quest.” If paladins could start using tower shields, then should we be able to? Or would that be a bug? If paladins could start scribing warrior abilities would that be a bug? </FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff></FONT></SPAN> </P> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff></FONT></SPAN> </P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff><SPAN>[Kinda like now, </SPAN><B><SPAN>Soulfire</SPAN></B><SPAN> was once the Pally weapon is now being held by an evil undead lich who took it from the hands of the Avatar of war, a decidedly NON paladin character.  Get off your high horse...literally.]</SPAN></FONT></P> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff></FONT></SPAN> </P> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff>Comparing npcs to pcs in a rpg is stupid. </FONT></SPAN></P></DIV>

[JarredDarque]

<DIV>Ok,  with Iksars and all being able to be pallies, no biggie, they saw the light.  Look into any fantasy stories,  a good number of pallies where drunks, or other  no-so-great people who 'saw the light' and where redeemed.  Let an iksar become a pally,  granted I think the betrayel quest needs to be about 100 times harder, take 2 or 3 months, and be done withing two lvls, so they dont go any higher while they are working on it.   I would consider Drizzt the next thing to a paladin, or at least from the books of him I have read, he is definately a good person.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>We want to be the MTs you say?  personally, I dont mind NOT bein the meatshield all the time.   But in 24 lvls,  I have met 1 guardian who kept himself properly equipped as I myself.  Met a lvl 24 guardian last night  his AC was 1050....mine, 1400 for cryin out loud people.   SAME LVL!  And you expect me to be in a group with this [Removed for Content] as the MT?  I can do offering and and STILL have a higher AC then him.  And the only guardian properly equipped is 3 lvls higher so we are never in same group any way unless we are duoing or in a trio.  Also have a lvl 22 in my guild is on his way to greatness,  lvl 22 guardian with 1150 AC right now,  and that is without a good tower shield, he is using a kite</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Combat arts and spells not the same?  your right.  we cant use ours while moving, and ours are designed to be supportive not greedy.   Offering of armament?  what gaain do I get out of doing that on your lousy, under equipped guadian butt?   I freely give up my AC to increase yours.   damage spells?  righteous anger is our best nuke,  and it does almost twice the damge of my avg swing,   and I can pull off two swings in the time it takes to cast.....almost useless.  Combat arts,  you can MOVE while you cast,   spells,  you have to sit still.   </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Yes,  from wha tI have seen, your glowing hand is useless other than it looks cool....what about a wizs cat?  and I dont even know what some of the scouts get geez.  Yes, the horse is useful.  So is the druids creature forms   go to their forums and [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] about them being able to heal and turn into cool looking animals.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>have a nice day, and ge thte hell out if your are not nor interested in being a pally.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>We dont want trolls....literally <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />   (just joing if there are any troll palllies,  good on ya)</DIV>

[jbar]

<DIV>thx god there are some normal people out there, please people dont make this game about MINE MINE MINE MINE, oh what do u have i want that gimmi gimmi gimmi</DIV>

[RAYVEN2]

<DIV>First, how does anyone know the ghoulbane is one of the best weapons?!  The weakened Ghoulbane is useable at level 32 and it does'nt look all that good for that high a level.  There are in fact dropped weapons at that level just as good as the weakened ghoulbane.  What we are asking for is our holy weapon from EQ lore to be made paladin only like it was in EQ1.   How does anyone know the restored GB will be better than any other weapons?  Anyone recovered the short sword of Yakesha?  Man, this game just needs a few monthes and some additional discoveries made quite public on these boards for people to see that requests like these are not so bad infact they fit with EQ lore and the game.  Did anyone here know  that you can turn in the dustly blue stone for another weapon if your a cleric or other non sword wielding class.  </DIV><p>Message Edited by RAYVEN2 on <span class=date_text>12-17-2004</span> <span class=time_text>10:56 AM</span>

[RyanLy]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> ThirdWizard wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> asteldian wrote:<BR> <DIV>Ghoulbane is a holy weapon, but a paladin is not a holy knight anymore.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> SoE wrote:<BR> <DIV>Paladins are crusaders for all things good and right. Wearing heavy armor, these valiant defenders of truth fight for nobility, honor, and virtue.</DIV><BR> <HR> <BR>Seems to be quite the holy knight to me. Fighting for honor with heavy armor on horseback while casting spells of healing and protection... hmm... could that sound like a holy knight? Spare me the whining that traditional evil races can now repent in their evil ways and take up the good fight. Next thing you're going to say is that a High Elf or Dwarven Shadowknight isn't evil. I don't buy it. <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Asteldian is right though, originally EQ paladins recieved their powers/abilites from the dieity (which are now gone) they worshiped. The "Holy" part was from the Diety worshiped only</P> <P>Today's  paladins are serving only (from the SoE quote) specific ideals.....the powers they recieve are from their determinined faith in "nobility, honor, and virtue". The same stuff that that the 3 Guard npc's spoke of Qeynos Fighters needed to speak to at level 10 to understand what a crusader is.</P> <P>On topic....Ghoulbane was a Holy Weapon back in the day and current story makes it still, but in a world with currently zero apparent devine guidance, we should just be happy it can be equiped at all.</P>

[Bludlette]

<DIV>Ghoulbane should be pally only.  Every fighter has the ability to be a tank.  Certain ones are more gear based, others skill based, others spell based.  As a guardian you rely on the choice of wepons and then the abilities you have.  As a Monk you are very skill reliant.  As a Pally you are a mix of it all decent gear, decent spells, a few skills.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I don't think anyone here thinks that Paladins should have the best weapons in game.  That wasn't ever the point.  Barrick Sword of thunder...Great stats and a proc.  That is a decent sword for its level.  Since no one yet has the finished version of Ghoulbane yet, this entire thread might be for no reason.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Sit back, relax and enjoy the game.  So what if another class can use the sword that was once Pally only...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Oh yeah wait no one knows yet</DIV>

[Ao]

<DIV> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff></FONT></SPAN></P><SPAN></SPAN><SPAN> <P><SPAN>To be frank I would rather no one could use it then allowing shadow knights to use it...</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN>I mean at some point you know the gods are going to be rediscovered, I would rather do the quest and let it rot in my bank until the gods come back then have it bastardized by letting evil classes.</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN>As far as I am concerned a evil class or a member of </SPAN><SPAN>freeport</SPAN><SPAN> obtaining this quest is nothing short of an exploit. It makes no sense, why would the people at the temple of life even talk to a necromancer or a shadow knight? Why they not just call the guards to boot you out of the city? if the guards boot you out then certainly it is by the order of the aristocracy. And if the guards can recognize them on sight why wouldn’t the quest npcs be able to do the same?</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN>The stone can no longer be placed in the shared bank (it is lore) after this patch. hopefully this will cut down on the number of exploits. </SPAN></P> <P><SPAN>It is conceivable, but still not likely that allowing all sword classes to use the sword was intention, but there is no way that they met for shadow knights to be able to obtain this quest it just utterly shatters any continuity in story line. <SPAN> </SPAN><SPAN> </SPAN></SPAN></P> <P></SPAN> </P></DIV>

[RyanLy]

<DIV>Well the quest seems solved, picture near bottem of first page</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=quest&message.id=18730&sessionServerID=wUKKu.sK2wnMc2mf" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=quest&message.id=18730&sessionServerID=wUKKu.sK2wnMc2mf</A></DIV>

[Ao]

<DIV>Looks like the first guy to hold it is a guard too, wow, this is just wrong.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I can't wait to get my towersheild...</DIV>

[per]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <BLOCKQUOTE> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> asteldian wrote:<BR> <DIV>Ghoulbane is a holy weapon, but a paladin is not a holy knight anymore.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Asteldian is right though, originally EQ paladins recieved their powers/abilites from the dieity (which are now gone) they worshiped. The "Holy" part was from the Diety worshiped only<BR> <HR> </P></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>So why the paladin class still exists  ? if we are not holly knights anymore so are just simple warriors. Remove the paladin class and make us all guards.</P> <P> </P> <P>All the paladins are proud to be holy knights, we re all proud to wield holy weapons which are part of the symbol of our class.<BR>I d prefere to see the ghoulbane not equipable by anyone, including the paladins, and being a relic than seeing everyone wearing it.</P>

[RyanLy]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> perny wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <BLOCKQUOTE> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> asteldian wrote:<BR> <DIV>Ghoulbane is a holy weapon, but a paladin is not a holy knight anymore.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Asteldian is right though, originally EQ paladins recieved their powers/abilites from the dieity (which are now gone) they worshiped. The "Holy" part was from the Diety worshiped only<BR> <HR> <P></P></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>So why the paladin class still exists  ? if we are not holly knights anymore so are just simple warriors. Remove the paladin class and make us all guards.</P> <P> </P> <P>All the paladins are proud to be holy knights, we re all proud to wield holy weapons which are part of the symbol of our class.<BR>I d prefere to see the ghoulbane not equipable by anyone, including the paladins, and being a relic than seeing everyone wearing it.</P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I gave the "reason" right under that line of mine you quoted.</P> <P>Folks, you would really be happy going thru the quest and getting just some petty amount of coin/xp for a permanent filled bank slot?</P><p>Message Edited by RyanLynx on <span class=date_text>12-17-2004</span> <span class=time_text>09:56 AM</span>

[Keet]

<DIV>so you "noble" holy warriors are saying:  Agree with me or get out!   and      I am holy, you are not, therefore I deserve the extra perks because you are just a simple fighter.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thank you very much for changing my position on paladins, I was all for having paladins in my groups but now that I have seen the light I realize that I am not worthy to stand in the shadow of your amazing egomaniacal greatness and will not be insulting paladins with any more group offerings in the future...since I'm "just a simple fighter", I will go find some scouts to watch my back instead.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>face it Aohd, you ACTUALLY said that being able to swing an extra hit for 50-75 damage equates to healing any person in the group for 250, or shielding them for hundreds of damage or being able to throw out a hit of your own for 50-75..ok maybe the last one equates.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Oh and comparing ingame lore is stupid??  Why is that?  because it doesn't add to your argument?  You are using ingame lore to back up why Ghoulbane should be paladin only yet you refuse to acknowledge ingame lore because its stupid when it doesn't work for you.    I think you might want to reconsider your class for something that fits....maybe brigand or swahsbuckler would be more appropriate.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>AND my AC is higher or even to any other tank I have grouped with in the last 4 levels, so please don't lump me into the useless tank group simply because you saw somebody else with low AC.  As well, what makes you think having all these weapons at my disposal is a boon, when as a MT I am going to be using a shield and 1 hander 90% of the time anyway.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <P>Perny wrote   "All the paladins are proud to be holy knights, we re all proud to wield holy weapons which are part of the symbol of our class.<BR>I d prefere to see the ghoulbane not equipable by anyone, including the paladins, and being a relic than seeing everyone wearing it."   hmm I thought HOLY knights would be more interested in humility and service instead of pride....</P></DIV>

[JarredDarque]

<DIV>On second note,  let anyone use this [Removed for Content] sword, and give it one helluva proc for anyone not a pally or SK (will explain the SK thing in a bit)  but a negative one.  Every time Mr Guardian swings it, he takes say,  50-100 points of damage...or more.  i.e.  The sword saying hey,  "your not worthy to wield me, let me go"</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Ok,  first  before I get misquoted, by saying 'unworthy' I dont mean that guardians and tmeplars or bards are useless or anything of hte sort, but you dont have the divine ideals guiding you in the same way.  Yes, the clerics/shamans do but again, it is not the same, your not about combat, quite frankly, you suck at it.  Why would a holy sword want someone who has not both the skill to wield it properly in combat, and is wielding it with that divine goal in mind.   You can say,  oh  but my ranger servers this god and his/her goal is to uphold those ideals, yeah,  but you aint a pally, if that is what you wanted to RP then by golly you shoulda been one.  that is our job.   If I wanted to say I love and care for nature and that is my ideals,  then I should not be a pally.  I cant duel wield, I cant use tower shields, I cant use a million other differant kick azz weapons I have seen other classes have.  I suck when it comes to serious DPS  and a properly equipped guardian will have both more HP and alot more AC than me...when they are properly equipped.  So how aobut you sit back and let us have something that is ours by right, and becasue we need something to call our own...yeah we get a horse..ya know hwat  you can buy one also.  And I can buy a tower shield..but I cant use it!  You can!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>SKs,  SKs fight with essentually the same, yet opposite ideals as us.  You take Holy Sword A,  that a pally is wileding for good and justice.  SK gets that sword, the SKs divine powers corrupt it making  that sword work towards evil and chaos.  </DIV>

[Jw]

First, equating a persons character on the boards with their class in the game is senseless... stop with the we should be actin holy routine. I was under the impression when I created my char to be a Paladin, that I was a holy knight, and I don't care if they left out a deity for me to worship, I draw my power from my beliefs. Anyway...This whole debate is not touching the real issue, which is whether everyone wants their class to have unique quests/items.I don't care so much about others using Ghoulbane, but I hope we don't see some classes getting unique item while the other classes don't. I would enjoy every class getting a few unique items. It makes the game fun. Everyone is bent out of shape about this because we don't know what the future will hold, and it seems unfair for Paladins to have something while no other groups have claim to something also. I hope all who strongly voice an opinion here remember that when an item they feel should be unique to their class comes out and everyone can get it also. It has to be one way or the other. All I am sayin is don't hate on Paladins who want a unique item now if you are gonna turn around and do the same thing later. If you would like to have a unique item for your class, let your posts reflect that. Don't hate on the Paladins who want that for ourselves because we ALL want the same for your class. I have only seen 1 post that clearly stated that they wanted all quests to be doable by everyone.Seems like everyone wants to be unique, but nobody wants anyone to seem better off than themselves. It is the heart of the Endless MMORPG Class Wars... Nerf football match tonight on guk, meet at Oracle tower!

[Ao]

<DIV>Please the long and short of it is that all classes need to have unique weapons and armor. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If everyone can use every thing then none of the quest mean jack. </DIV>

[Ao]

<DIV>Keethe: question for you. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>becasue you belive that inorder to be "good" or noble one should not want to be unique, would you be willing to give paladins acess to towersheilds?</DIV>

[JarredDarque]

<DIV>Anyone else unable to play right now look at the update notes?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <DIV>The Ruins of Varsoon<BR>- The Creator should no longer break encounters when attacked.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>um  is that the thing yall are having problems on on ghouldbane?</DIV></DIV>

[Bludlette]

<DIV>Keethe, quick question:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Were you born that way or were you in an accident?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>He is using in game lore to back up his arguments.  You are using a comparison between an NPC and a PC to try and back yours up.  Tunare NPC's are not bound by the same rules as PC's are.  So IF the AoW stole the Ghoulbane and uses it as a toothpick has nothing to do with weather or not anyone else should use, lore speaking, a paladin only weapon.</DIV>

[ThirdWiza]

<blockquote><hr>Keethe wrote:<DIV>hmm I thought HOLY knights would be more interested in humility and service instead of pride....</P></DIV><hr></blockquote>I'm not a paladin, I just play one in EQ2. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Keet]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Bludletters wrote:<BR> <DIV>Keethe, quick question:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Were you born that way or were you in an accident?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>He is using in game lore to back up his arguments.  You are using a comparison between an NPC and a PC to try and back yours up.  Tunare NPC's are not bound by the same rules as PC's are.  So IF the AoW stole the Ghoulbane and uses it as a toothpick has nothing to do with weather or not anyone else should use, lore speaking, a paladin only weapon.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>I would have no problem at all letting pallies use Tower shields, makes little sense to me why they can't.  If you can pick up one shield, why the heck couldn't you pick up one a little bigger?  They did it for balance reasons because Paladins ALREADY have a ton of other abilities as well as heals, wards, speed increasing fluff spells, heavy armor, buffs, group oriented buffs, proc buffs, etc, etc.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And Bludletters (plural? eh, whatever)  I am horribly hurt by your very witty and well thought out insult, in fact I am still stinging right now, you see I was in fact, in an accident that caused the right half of my brain to quit functioning and therefore left me without any ability to insult people with horribly lame and pathetic attempts at flamage.  Well, not really, but that flame was pretty sad hehe.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You may want to try looking up lore...as it pertains to backstory, which Mr. Aohd is attempting to base his argument off of, while ignoring the OTHER backstory which, while it may pertain to NPC instead of PC, has no bearing on the argument of using backstory in one context while ignoring a very large and glaring part of the backstory that does not suit your needs.  Lucan is in fact ingame, thereby making him ingame lore.  So, in closing, yes I was born this way and am very thankful for it so that I am not confused with people like you.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>BTW, he is using ingame lore FROM ANOTHER GAME, the only lore about ghoulbane in 2 is that it WAS (past tense) used by paladins not that it could ONLY be used by paladins, this is not EQ1 as you can see by ghoulbane being weildable by all.  But alas, there is no point to further this argument those that always want things in their favor will rarely ever see things from a fair perspective.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>We are made unique in an mmorpg by our skills, personality and choices, if your armor or weapons are the only thing making you unique then I feel sorry for you.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Keethe on <span class=date_text>12-17-2004</span> <span class=time_text>12:41 PM</span>

[ThirdWiza]

<blockquote><hr>Aohd wrote:<DIV>Please the long and short of it is that all classes need to have unique weapons and armor. </DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>If everyone can use every thing then none of the quest mean jack. </DIV><hr></blockquote>You hit the nail on the head. I see this as very sad.No race/class specific gear? I'm pretty sure that I've seen the sword for completing the paladin quest on the broker. How sad is that? The Paladin sword I got for completing the quest isn't no drop, it isn't paladin only, you just have to be able to wield a sword to use it. Other classes are the same way as far as I know. I could go out and buy the Ranger weapon or the Berserker weapon if I wanted to. Is the AQ stuff no drop? Could I buy me some Guardian AQ1 and wear it?Where's the Burning Rapier? Ragebringer? Will Berserkers pick them up to dual wield? Because that would make so much sense. What separates one class from another if we're using the same stuff? There already arn't enough models for my taste. Bah, this is really leaving a bad taste in my mouth. Not necessarily becuase Paladins arn't the only ones who can use the Ghoulbane, but because if the Ghoulbane isn't class specific there probably isn't anything in the game that is.

[Keet]

<DIV>I'm sorry but I'm completely missing the point of class specific weapons, all it means is that everyone of that class will be using that same weapon...how does that make anyone unique, it just limits you even further into a stereotype.  Got a Ragebringer, oh he's a rogue.  Got a Ghoulbane, yep he's a pally.    But if you saw someone in heavy plate with a ragebringer and a tower shield then that's NOT unique???  /boggle  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Hmm handle, blade, pommel, crossguard....yep it's a sword....hmm for some reason I can pick up this sword but I can't pick up this other one over here because....what? I don't have the secret decoder ring?</DIV> <DIV>Yep being unique means being identified by the same standard weapon and armor set everybody else in the class is using.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You people are talking about being unique and are fighting AGAINST being unique....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now if they had those weapons were you could pick it up but you took DoT damage from weilding it since it didn't belong to you then that would be interesting and unique, just saying...NO you can't use that because you act like a knight but nobody taught you the secret holy handshake, so you can't be a good noble character worthy of it.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>"Could I buy me some Guardian AQ1 and wear it?"  yes you can...its the same armor you get for AQ1...<BR></DIV> <P>Message Edited by Keethe on <SPAN class=date_text>12-17-2004</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>01:45 PM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by Keethe on <span class=date_text>12-17-2004</span> <span class=time_text>01:45 PM</span>

[Bludlette]

<DIV>   Keethe did you play Original EQ?  Have you ever played an RPG not on the PC?  Does Drizzt’ Do’Urden ring a bell?  He was a Drow Ranger.  He had a sword which choose him.  It was a scimater named Twinkle.  Blade has a sword that will, if used by anyone other then him, open blades from the handle and slice off fingers.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>   These are examples of unique weapons.  Class specific weapons are another thing completely.  We want people to know that the Dwarf over there with a flamin sword is a Pally and not a warrior.  We want to see that Ogre with a glowing spear is a shaman and not a gaurdian.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Every class should have a weapon that says "Hey look I am class X".  Should a Dwarf Pally be able to use a sword that has little glowing notes that come off of it?  No I don't think so.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>MMORPG...  I role play my charecter.  A Dwarven Paladin.  I alone should be able to forge a special weapon only usable by me from materials I mined.  But I should have to go on some sort of quest that allows me the knowledge to do it.  Something that ONLY a dwarf can accomplish.  Just the same I feel all classes or races should have something similar.  But hey I guess RPG doesn't mean anything to someone who doesn't understand the most basic function of of this genre of game.</DIV>

[Sant]

<DIV>Until they make weapons for every class no class should have there own. </DIV>

[RAYVEN2]

<DIV>The more I play the more rushed this game feels.  It seems like they forgot so many things.  Someone on this thread mentioned that even the class weapons given to you at level 20 are usable by anyone and can be sold on the broker.  I confirmed that this is true and kinda sad.   It almost feels like everything that makes this game EQ was stripped out with the exception of the title of the product itself.  Holy swords were a big deal in EQ1 atleast when EQ1 first launched.  They went into detail on the legend of the soulfire and ghoulbane.   I pick up EQ2 and roll up a paladin <STRONG>because SOE said ghoulbane and other EQ1 items would be in EQ2.  </STRONG>I had this whole idea in my mind of finding and <EM>being able to equip</EM> the ghoulbane.  This is why I picked the Paladin.  In EQ1 I rolled up a  paladin after my magician hit level 56 because I wanted to quest for the holy sword.  Guys its not like soulfire was an awesome weapon, infact it kinda sucked compaired to some of the other 2handed swords but it was a flaming 2hander and was a symbol of the paladin.  You <STRONG>knew</STRONG> that guy holding that flaming sword was a paladin.  It was an identity thing I never found when playing a magician.  If my pet was'nt out I looked like all the other caster classes.   You have to see the disappointment paladins feel when seeing the holy weapon of EQ1 usable by all.  The symbol of the paladin is now the symbol of every fighter class.  In addition any race good or evil can become a paladin further watering down what many consider the basics of the paladin(good race choice only ie. no trolls).  I'm not arguing here about if the ARAC system because the lore explains why that is.  I don't complain about stuff in MMORPGs that have story.  The GB quest itself indicates this is a paladin weapon.  The <STRONG>lore</STRONG> supports my point.  Read the quest and you will see what I mean.  Think about it people your taking the weapon from a dead once great paladin in the ToV....  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Honestly I think people would agree with me if it was'tn for the [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] horse.  Well you know what, I can buy a horse in the future so take it.  Give me my class specific holy weapon so i feel like a paladin and I'll be happy.</DIV>

[ThirdWiza]

<blockquote><hr>Keethe wrote:<DIV>I'm sorry but I'm completely missing the point of class specific weapons, all it means is that everyone of that class will be using that same weapon...how does that make anyone unique, it just limits you even further into a stereotype. Got a Ragebringer, oh he's a rogue. Got a Ghoulbane, yep he's a pally. But if you saw someone in heavy plate with a ragebringer and a tower shield then that's NOT unique??? /boggle </DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>Hmm handle, blade, pommel, crossguard....yep it's a sword....hmm for some reason I can pick up this sword but I can't pick up this other one over here because....what? I don't have the secret decoder ring?</DIV><DIV>Yep being unique means being identified by the same standard weapon and armor set everybody else in the class is using.</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>You people are talking about being unique and are fighting AGAINST being unique....</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>Now if they had those weapons were you could pick it up but you took DoT damage from weilding it since it didn't belong to you then that would be interesting and unique, just saying...NO you can't use that because you act like a knight but nobody taught you the secret holy handshake, so you can't be a good noble character worthy of it. </DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>"Could I buy me some Guardian AQ1 and wear it?" yes you can...its the same armor you get for AQ1...<BR></DIV><P>Message Edited by Keethe on <SPAN class=date_text>12-17-2004</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>01:45 PM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by Keethe on <span class=date_text>12-17-2004</span> <span class=time_text>01:45 PM</span><hr></blockquote>The problem is that the outcome of no race/class/other specific items is that everyone uses the same things. You don't have the problem of "Oh yeah he's a Paladin, see the ghoulbane?" You get the problem of "Oh yeah, he's using a Sword of Genericness, because he uses swords." In other words, every Paladin, Shadowknight, Guardian, etc who uses swords will with few exceptions (because they can't get it) use one particular sword. At least with restrictions, there will be 3 swords used instead of one.

[muzzyman]

<DIV>I know I probibly missed a bunch of stuff when I skipped to the back and the fact I never played EQ1 but I like what the poster who said that since this is a weakened version of the weapon maybe it's "will" has deminished.....so much that it does not have the influence over who wields it....just that it was found.  The "real" Ghoulbane weapon SHOULD be a Paladin only weapon that involves restoring the greatness it once was.</DIV>

[Nostaphos]

<DIV>I agree whole heartedly .. The sword should only be useable by Pally / SK class. This should be implemented right away ..with the same patch that allows ONLY Guardians to equip Vanguard. :smileywink:</DIV>

[ThirdWiza]

<blockquote><hr>Nostaphos wrote:<DIV>I agree whole heartedly .. The sword should only be useable by Pally / SK class. This should be implemented right away ..with the same patch that allows ONLY Guardians to equip Vanguard. :smileywink:</DIV><hr></blockquote>You mean in the patch that allows only Paladins to use swords right?<p>Message Edited by ThirdWizard on <span class=date_text>12-18-2004</span> <span class=time_text>11:30 PM</span>

[asteldian]

<DIV>Personally i think the whole 'unique to me' is overrated, now what i would like to see is certain abilities on special weapons unique to a class-like all can use ghoulbane but only the pally will get the proc or bane damage against undead.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Even better would be weapons with multiple abilites which depending on what class you are dictates which ability will be activated on the weapon.  I just think it would be cool if people using the same sword would be getting different effects from it</DIV>

[Tyd]

<DIV>1st off: I dont give horse[expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] about EQ1. The thing is: According to the EQ2 fluff a pally used the Ghoulbane. However, the sword possessed by Lord D'Lere was also a pallyweapon once right?</DIV> <DIV>Just becuase a pally once used it doesnt mean that another class cant. It's like saying that only zerkers should be able to use [insert weapon here] because one zerker used the weapon once. If you want lore/roleplay credability - i, being an SK, killed a Pally that found it and overpowered the soul/spirit/whatever of the blade, and it is now doing my bidding...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also - its a fact that Freeportians are fighting ALOT of undead, prolly more then Qeynosians. So an undead-bane weapon is likely to be very sought after in Freeport.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And to those that say that pally have such limited choises in weapons - Are you the only one?! Not only are SKs robbed of their Shiny Brass Halberd, but now you want to robb us of my precious Ghoulbane (that i had to work alot harder for then you).</DIV> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P><p>Message Edited by Tydde on <span class=date_text>12-20-2004</span> <span class=time_text>05:10 AM</span>

[Keet]

<DIV>"<EM>Keethe did you play Original EQ?  Have you ever played an RPG not on the PC?  Does Drizzt’ Do’Urden ring a bell?  He was a Drow Ranger.  He had a sword which choose him.  It was a scimater named Twinkle.  Blade has a sword that will, if used by anyone other then him, open blades from the handle and slice off fingers</EM>.  "</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>please reread the Drizzt books (which I have every copy of and have read all at least twice) and try not to read them while you are watching Blade...you know the movie with the sword that chopped your fingers off (via technology, not sure what that has to do with choosing you)....and fyi, Twinkle was not a sentient sword, Kazid'hea aka Cutter was.  Twinkle only glowed blue when enemies were near and it was given to him by a mage that knew he favored scimitars.  Kazid'hea TRIED to choose Drizzt, but he did not want a straight blade, Catti-Brie on the other hand conquered the sword even though it tried to take control of her.  Same way I will conquor my ghoulbane when I get it.  Twinkle is more in line with Sting from LOTR, magic but not sentient.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If you read any popular fantaay novel, they do not limit any character to using a specific weapon unless its due purely to religious or practical purposes.  Gandalf uses a [Removed for Content] sword dual weilded with a long staff...so if you plan to quote popular fiction you are just going to make my point for me.  Games are the only fantasy medium that limits weapons to particular professions.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Bluletters wrote - "<EM>MMORPG...  I role play my charecter.  A Dwarven Paladin.  I alone should be able to forge a special weapon only usable by me from materials I mined.  But I should have to go on some sort of quest that allows me the knowledge to do it.  Something that ONLY a dwarf can accomplish.  Just the same I feel all classes or races should have something similar.  But hey I guess RPG doesn't mean anything to someone who doesn't understand the most basic function of of this genre of game</EM>."</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You should seriously start reading more,  You don't forge Ghoulbane at all, you find the stone, you get ore as a favor for the guy who researches the stone for you, then you retrieve the sword and put the stone back in it...So you want a special weapon and in doing so you want to deny that any other person sharing this virtual world not be allowed to do the same thing?  Or are the devs supposed to make individual quests for Jon, Mark and Joe Smith?   You might want to petition against the humans paladins as well, since they aren't Dwarves either.    Making up a character doesn't make you a roleplayer...</DIV> <P>Message Edited by Keethe on <SPAN class=date_text>12-20-2004</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>06:36 AM</SPAN></P> <P>Message Edited by Keethe on <SPAN class=date_text>12-20-2004</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>06:41 AM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by Keethe on <span class=date_text>12-20-2004</span> <span class=time_text>06:44 AM</span>

[Bludlette]

<DIV>Sad sad little Keethe...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You as the Berserker, me as the Pally are going to see things differently.  100% different fighting styles.  Playing a berserker is no challenge atm.  Will you still play a zerker after thet fix Blood Lust?  I wholey support the Pally as a ST/MA when in a group with another plate tank.  Now as far as weapons and armor go..  Gaurdians have an armor ONLY they can wear why not a weapon, from lore, different game...  Oh btw the its a different game is NOT a trump.  IT was the HISTORY behind EQ2.  without the Original Version of EQ there would be no back story to EQ2.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The finished version of Ghoulbane should be Paladin only or have a proc that ONLY works for them.  I have no problem with someone else weilding the sword.  There should be no special extras for those not pally however.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So if someone wants to put the time into the quest they will still get the exp and a sword, just no proc or whatever.</DIV>

[Tyd]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Bludletters wrote:<BR> <DIV>Sad sad little Keethe...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You as the Berserker, me as the Pally are going to see things differently.  100% different fighting styles.  Playing a berserker is no challenge atm.  Will you still play a zerker after thet fix Blood Lust?  I wholey support the Pally as a ST/MA when in a group with another plate tank.  Now as far as weapons and armor go..  Gaurdians have an armor ONLY they can wear why not a weapon, from lore, different game...  Oh btw the its a different game is NOT a trump.  IT was the HISTORY behind EQ2.  without the Original Version of EQ there would be no back story to EQ2.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The finished version of Ghoulbane should be Paladin only or have a proc that ONLY works for them.  I have no problem with someone else weilding the sword.  There should be no special extras for those not pally however.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So if someone wants to put the time into the quest they will still get the exp and a sword, just no proc or whatever.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>1. What has Zerker balance issues to do with this?</P> <P>2. What armor can Zerkers use that i cant?</P> <P>3. Why, when you refer to "Pally vs. Other tanks" do you totally neglect Shadowknights? They have the same limitations as Pallies, yet you ignore this fact.</P> <P>4. It is interesting to see people ignore my post above, a proof that people lack any reply to it, which really only proves my point.<BR></P>

[RAYVEN2]

<DIV>It'd be nice to get an official word on this topic from SOE and stop flaming each other <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[Keet]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Bludletters wrote:<BR> <DIV>Sad sad little Keethe...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You as the Berserker, me as the Pally are going to see things differently.  100% different fighting styles.  Playing a berserker is no challenge atm.  Will you still play a zerker after thet fix Blood Lust?  I wholey support the Pally as a ST/MA when in a group with another plate tank.  Now as far as weapons and armor go..  Gaurdians have an armor ONLY they can wear why not a weapon, from lore, different game...  Oh btw the its a different game is NOT a trump.  IT was the HISTORY behind EQ2.  without the Original Version of EQ there would be no back story to EQ2.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The finished version of Ghoulbane should be Paladin only or have a proc that ONLY works for them.  I have no problem with someone else weilding the sword.  There should be no special extras for those not pally however.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So if someone wants to put the time into the quest they will still get the exp and a sword, just no proc or whatever.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>A.  I play both, my zerker is my main now as he was before I knew anything about Bloodlust and he will be after they fix it.  your point is both moot and irrelevant.</FONT></DIV> <DIV>B.  what is this supposed fictional Guardian armor that apparently you only know about...you might want to let the Guardians know about it as they are all wearing the same armor as every other plate class.</FONT></DIV> <DIV>C. yet more of the I should get more because I'm holier than thou...I think you need to go back and read your own posts, you make less sense each time you hit reply.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Tydde, Im only not responding to you because I agree with you completely <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And Ray, there already is an Official word...the first ghoulbane went to a guardian.</DIV> <P>Message Edited by Keethe on <SPAN class=date_text>12-20-2004</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>08:00 AM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by Keethe on <span class=date_text>12-20-2004</span> <span class=time_text>08:02 AM</span>

[RioR]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Keethe wrote:<BR> <DIV>I'm sorry but I'm completely missing the point of class specific weapons, all it means is that everyone of that class will be using that same weapon...how does that make anyone unique, it just limits you even further into a stereotype.  Got a Ragebringer, oh he's a rogue.  Got a Ghoulbane, yep he's a pally.    But if you saw someone in heavy plate with a ragebringer and a tower shield then that's NOT unique???  /boggle  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Hmm handle, blade, pommel, crossguard....yep it's a sword....hmm for some reason I can pick up this sword but I can't pick up this other one over here because....what? I don't have the secret decoder ring?</DIV> <DIV>Yep being unique means being identified by the same standard weapon and armor set everybody else in the class is using.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You people are talking about being unique and are fighting AGAINST being unique....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now if they had those weapons were you could pick it up but you took DoT damage from weilding it since it didn't belong to you then that would be interesting and unique, just saying...NO you can't use that because you act like a knight but nobody taught you the secret holy handshake, so you can't be a good noble character worthy of it.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>"Could I buy me some Guardian AQ1 and wear it?"  yes you can...its the same armor you get for AQ1...<BR></DIV> <P>Message Edited by Keethe on <SPAN class=date_text>12-17-2004</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>01:45 PM</SPAN></P> <P>Message Edited by Keethe on <SPAN class=date_text>12-17-2004</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>01:45 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Paladins in RPG games have holy swords. Holy swords are used by paladins only. Ghoulbane is a line of holy swords from EQ1. Ghoulbane was only usable by paladins. That is the point that some of you don't get. You do not understand the paladin class. Therefore you do not understand how <STRONG>wrong </STRONG>it is for a non paladin to use Ghoulbane. </P> <P> </P> <p>Message Edited by RioRio on <span class=date_text>12-20-2004</span> <span class=time_text>08:05 AM</span>

[Keet]

<DIV>5+1 = 6, doesn't 3+3 = 6 also or does 5+1 have the lock on the whole 6 thing...?  Just because paladins used holy swords in EQ1 doesn't mean that paladins are the ONLY ones that can be faithful and or noble enough to be worthy.  Step outside the box for half a second if your brain can fathom it.</DIV>

[RAYVEN2]

<DIV>Thats not word on the item.  Just because the first went to a guardian does'nt mean anything.  That does'nt not mean its not a bug.  I'm wondering if its a bug that they are going to let slip like the paladin horse speed thing or if its a bug they intend on fixing with future versions...  Only fair way I see is to allow the current ones to stay in existance but correct the bug with future versions.  Every class using this weapon has to be a bug or an un-intentional oversight and freeport residents completing this quest know that is definatly a bug.  I just want the offical word from SOE.  Tell us if this is a bug you intend on fixing or if this is a bug that like the horse thingy they are going to let slip.      </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Edit :   /bug   - this if you agree with me.  If anything we can get them to state an official stance on the topic and then we can stop debating.  </DIV><p>Message Edited by RAYVEN2 on <span class=date_text>12-20-2004</span> <span class=time_text>11:19 AM</span>

[Keet]

<DIV>debating would mean you actually have a valid argument other than "MINE MINE MINE!!!!11"  I have yet to see any argument other than " I picked this class therefore my character must be a more holy person than yours"  this has no feasibility in roleplay or game mechanics until every class gets their own version or until someone can prove to me why a paladin is more capable of being a noble character than a guardian or warden fo example.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[RAYVEN2]

<DIV>Actually, I explained this in much more detail on the abilities board over numerous posts.  I'm not going to bother anymore.  I just want SOE to say if this is a bug like the horse speed thing or if this is working as intended.  I don't think thats to much to ask. The lore shows this as paladin specific.  Infact, if you think about it there are already class specific weapons in the game.  <STRONG>Since crusaders and brawlers can not use polearms would'nt that make the shiny brass halberd warrior class specific?  </STRONG></DIV>

[Bladezil]

<DIV>Just so everyone know.. I recently seen Ghoulbane ingame equipped on a Paladin. However, it is usable by all sword baring classes.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Ghoulbane is not Paladin/Shadowknight specific.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Always nice to know that the lore of the world is being spit upon by the devs eh?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#330099 size=6>- Bladezilla Killa -</FONT></DIV></DIV>

[per]

<DIV>i ve done the shiny brass halberd this week end, yes i had some nice xp but i also received a useless good weapon as i can t use it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It s funny to see that in one heritage quest : ghoulbane more users were added and in an other one : shiny brass halbred some users were removed from the original users of EQ1.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The ghoulbane was a paladin holy sword, it was a game design with some lore.</DIV> <DIV>We were not given this sword because we are better than others, but because it was a game content and something that most of people think it should be : holy warriors wield holy swords.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Having some class specific items would have been a better idea than to share things that shouldn t be.</DIV> <DIV>I d love to see the warriors using an executionner axe, i d love to see the rangers use a SSOY (even if it wasn t a ranger only weapon), i d love to see all the class having something unique.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I m wondering why they are making so many race, classes and looks if at the end everyone will wear the same battlesuit and the same weapon.</DIV>

[asteldian]

<BLOCKQUOTE> <BLOCKQUOTE> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Paladins in RPG games have holy swords. Holy swords are used by paladins only. Ghoulbane is a line of holy swords from EQ1. Ghoulbane was only usable by paladins. That is the point that some of you don't get. You do not understand the paladin class. Therefore you do not understand how <STRONG>wrong </STRONG>it is for a non paladin to use Ghoulbane. </P> <P> </P> <P>Message Edited by RioRio on <SPAN class=date_text>12-20-2004</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>08:05 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Paladins in RPG games are good and only good, you dont get inkies, trolls or ogre paladins.  Ghoulbane is a line of holy sword from EQ1 and was usable only by paladins and paladins were pure hearted good races.  You do not understand how <STRONG>wrong </STRONG>it is for a ace created from pure hate can be a paladin.<BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Im not saying there shouldnt be unique weapons for classes in game or at least abilities on weapons unique to classes.  In fact im not even saying ghoulbane should not be unique to pally, i have no problem whether it is or isnt, just feel using lore or eq1 as an excuse doesnt work</DIV><p>Message Edited by asteldian on <span class=date_text>12-21-2004</span> <span class=time_text>07:16 AM</span>

[RAYVEN2]

<DIV>I think Perny hit the nail right on the head.  </DIV>

[RioR]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Keethe wrote:<BR> <DIV>debating would mean you actually have a valid argument other than "MINE MINE MINE!!!!11"  I have yet to see any argument other than " I picked this class therefore my character must be a more holy person than yours"  this has no feasibility in roleplay or game mechanics until every class gets their own version or until someone can prove to me why a paladin is more capable of being a noble character than a guardian or warden fo example.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <P>Your stubborness has blinded you to the true facts. I explained it perfectly to you. You decided to caste it aside and make up a reason out of thin air to support your false interpretations of the paladin class. You have yet to come up with a good reason why except for "everyone should be able to use everything". That generic arguement does not hold water in 95% of RPGs and it ruins the other 5%. </P> <P>Is this your first time to play an RPG game? It sure does seem like it. I have been playing them since 1986. There are rules and ideas established in all of them. One of the most widely used classes is a paladin. I can tell you don't know what one is in an RPG setting. A paladin <STRONG>is</STRONG> a holy knight of the church. He <STRONG>is</STRONG> the most holy of the fighting class. If a guardian was that holy then he would of took the path of the paladin. This is all very old and basic rules when it comes to RPGs. There is nothing new or complex here. </P> <P>SOE established the traditional rules with paladins and holy swords with their RPG for the last 5 years. Now they have broke one of the oldest rules in RPGs. Letting anyone wield a holy sword. This after they had said for 5 years that only paladins could wield holy swords (as is the case in almost every RPG). </P> <P>You have yet to post a valid arguement yourself. Go read up on paladin RPG history for a few months and then get back to us.</P> <P> </P> <P>Now after saying all that...</P> <P>I'm sure one day soon SOE is going to tell us why everyone can use Ghoulbane. I am sure they are going to say something in the line of "it's our game and nothing is sacred from EQ1. We broke the traditional rules because we wanted to". As this seems to be their generic statement for everything they have done in EQ2. That still does not make it right.   </P>

[Keet]

<DIV>Just because you have no imagination outside of your rulebook, doesn't mean I am incapable of nonlinear thought.  I have been playing D&D and PC RPGs since 88 myself, so don't feed me your condecension.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Show me a fantasy character not in a game that is a paladin with a holy sword and I will show you 3x that number where the non knight, anti hero character is given a weapon of such magnitude purely because of his heart and character.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If they think like a paladin, then they would be a paladin?  Drizzt ring a bell...not a paladin, but can you argue that he is not as noble and righteous as any paladin there is?  I think perhaps, abstract concepts might be a bit much for some of you.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>God1: we should bequeth that man a holy sword, he fights valiantly for righteousness and good.</DIV> <DIV>God2: Nah, he ain't a paly.  Got to join the club or we can't see the goodness in him, remember?</DIV>

[Kama]

<DIV>Just as a added thought, To all those saying how a Troll or Dark elf can't become something good and holy. Please explain how Drizzt in the 1st 3 books about his trip to the surface, that a Unicorn let him touch it? Lets see, a Unicorn is a animal of PURE good. Legends in both history and story both aggree that they only let those that are worthy, ( AKA Good and Pure of heart ) touch them let alone see them. Expain that. then tell me how a Dark elf or a Troll can't see the light and walk a path that those in the light will never know. Sometimes the brightest stars are the ones that know the darkest parts of life. Think before you speak. You might loose out on a great friendship.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Valius Orenglave</DIV> <DIV>Dark elf Paladin of Mithril Web</DIV> <DIV>Blackburrow Server</DIV> <DIV>Kamail Orenglave of Mithril Web</DIV> <DIV>Half elf Paladin on Lanys. (Retired)</DIV>

[asteldian]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Im not saying the dark elf or roll cant be a paladin, im saying it goes against all tradition.</P> <P> </P> <P> <HR> SOE established the traditional rules with paladins and holy swords with their RPG for the last 5 years. Now they have broke one of the oldest rules in RPGs<BR> <HR> </P></BLOCKQUOTE>They allowed Pally to be evil races, that breaks oldest rules in RPG, is it wrong? Some say so, but many dont-but those that dont then turn and complain about tradition of the holy sword being broken is wrong...why is it anymore wrong than evil raced pallies?<BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV></FONT>

[Kama]

<DIV>AD&D broke that tradition with their game Neverwinter Nights. The Game lets you play races and Multi class Paladins that aren't ment to be a paladin. No i'm not saying SOE goes by their rules, and that AD&D has anything to do with this game, but as the worlds of we play in change, the class/race we can play changes with it.  Personaly i'm bummed out that any sword using class can use the Ghoulbane, the main reason i think it should be Pal/SK only is do to our lack of weapon choices. lets face it, 1 weapon thats ours only won't kill those that have more weapons to choose from. I've seen some darn nice weapons that i can't use, and some of the 3 min buffs i get don't make up for that. Lets just hope someone decides to read these posts and comment on what they plan to do.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Valius Orenglave</DIV> <DIV>Dark elf Paladin of Mithril Web</DIV> <DIV>Blackburrow Server</DIV> <DIV>Kamail Orenglave</DIV> <DIV>Half elf Paladin of Mithril Web</DIV> <DIV>Lanys Server (Retired)</DIV>

[rws-da]

"AD&D broke that tradition with their game Neverwinter Nights. The Game lets you play races and Multi class Paladins that aren't ment to be a paladin." <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm sorry, I don't want to get into this but I have to say that you're completely and totally wrong there.  Neverwinter Nights is based on third edition D&D, which is not AD&D at all.  All of the rules are completely changed, including race/class restrictions.  Don't blame Bioware (who is not TSR) for this, because they had nothing to do with it.  And D&D doesn't come out with games, it IS a game. *sigh*</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But regarding the Ghoulbane being wieldable by everyone, I think this idea blows.  I played a paladin from the start of EQ1 when holy swords were the thing to do.  Paladins sucked, but at least they still had their dignity with the holy swords.  Both the Ghoulbane and the Soulfire had unique looks that immediately distinguished them from everyone else.  Just like warriors had crafted (early crafted with NO stats, just higher ac than anything else in the game) where nobody else had armor just for them.  Nobody complained, it was just the way things were.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The best solution I can see, which has been mentioned already but is also backed by RPG history, would be to make the final product Paladin only (corruptable by SKs)  but the weakened version useable by all.  D&D has used this idea from day 1.  Holy Avengers were +5 in the hands of a paladin, but +2 in the hands of anyone else.  Sony already has a version of this idea set up, they just have to go through with it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>There's still time to make the final Ghoulbane class specific, all other classes that already have a Ghoulbane can consider themselves really lucky.</DIV>

[Xanrn]

<DIV>Right first of its NOT EVERYONE or ALL CLASSES.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I am a Monk and I can't use your prescious Holy Sword. I stopped it before I went to fetch weakened Ghoulbane and got some average fight Baton.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Second Monks and Bruisers can tank aswell as you so stop going on like your the only tanks.</DIV>

[RAYVEN2]

<DIV>I posted this on another topic about this issue but i think it should be reposted here.  This started with someone saying that everyone could use the Shiny Brass Halberd.   </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>"What makes you think Fighters can only use the Halberd?"</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------</DIV> <DIV> Huh?  Warriors are the only archtype that can use the shiny Brass Halberd.  Brawlers and crusaders can not use the Halberd.  Being a pole weapon only Warriors can use it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>BTW I was looking up the  "restoring the ghoulbane" quest and I found this on <A href="http://eq.crgaming.com/pon/articledetails.asp?id=53" target=_blank><FONT color=#c8c1b5>http://eq.crgaming.com/pon/articledetails.asp?id=53</FONT></A> , old EQ1 stories and lore</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <P>"The distant sound of troll war drums awakened him from his troubled dreams. Though he was drenched in sweat from the fetid air of the Innothule swamp, Patryn was shivering uncontrollably. Patryn turned to check on his still sleeping companions before heading towards a nearby hilltop. He had much to ponder this day, and did not wish to disturb his companions. As he buckled on his armor, the paladin began to recall the vision he had received from Mithanial Marr.</P> <P>Patryn saw a knight in sun drenched armor holding a sword glimmering with an inner fire. This figure in golden armor from his vision could only be an avatar of Marr himself. As Patryn stared in awe, the knight raised his sword in salute. A voice, boomed in Patryn's head, "A dark stain has spread itself in the heart of Old Guk. My chosen champion has fallen, and another must carry the great burden of restoring Guk to its former glory. Go now with my blessing and retrieve that which I have left for you."</P> <P>Patryn knew then that this day would be a true test of knighthood. Quickly he made his way back to camp, with a new sense of purpose in his heart. He awakened his companions who had travelled this far with him, Garik, the quick and cunning ranger, Kianna a druid of the all mother Tunare, and finally the fell spellbinders Saurus and Mineme. Without a word, they all follwed him into the city of Guk. They could see the hardened resolve on his face and the lightness of his step, and knew that he had been divinely inspired. An unspoken message of cameraderie passed between all the group members and without a look back, they stepped into the heart of darkness.</P> <P>The froglok guards at the entrance glowered at Patryn dubiously.</P> <P>"You may not pass. This is the home of the frogloks." a guard croaked.</P> <P>"I come to claim that which is mine to aid the frogloks in their war against the vile undead which infest this city." Patryn replied calmly.</P> <P>"We have no need of help. Our Shin Lord fights against the dark ones even now."</P> <P>"Your pride will be your own undoing. We come to aid your cause. Do not scoff at such an offer lightly."</P> <P>"Very well you may pass for now. Something is amiss in this city. Please speak to the Shin Lord." the guard croaked again then returned to his patrols.</P> <P>Patryn bowed before the guard and then headed further into the city. The frogloks all stared dubiously at him but let him pass without harassment. He sensed that something was terribly wrong as he passed froglok knights standing rigidly at their posts. A great sense of sadness seemed to pervade the very heart of Guk.</P> <P>Upon reaching the palace Patryn heard an invocation to Innoruuk and the casting of a spell of of the dark arts. Quickly, he and his stouthearted companions ran into the palace to give what aid they could. As he entered, all the guards continued to stare ahead not even noticing him. He approached the throne room, and found the Shin Lord, a fellow paladin of Marr, seated upon his throne. Kneeling, Patryn bowed his head to his brother in arms.</P> <P>"I come to aid you in your quest to rid the lands of all the undead which have infested it." Patryn said after rising to his feet.</P> <P>"There...is...no...need....of...help." The Shin Lord whispered. His glazed eyes seemed to stare straight ahead without any recognition. Though the Shin Lord was resplendant in his silvery plate, the armor seemed tarnished and out of use. His shoulders were stooped as if a great weariness had overcome him. His sword, the ancient Ghoulbane granted to him by Marr lay at his feet untouched and collecting dust.</P> <P>"Gooooo...now...this...audience...is...over..." again the Shin Lord whispered barely audibly.</P> <P>"I have been sent by Mithanial Marr himself to come to your aid. I do not know the full meaning of my vision, but the intent was clear. I must come here to rid the land of the undead frogloks. How can you sit idly by while your people suffer so?" Patryn exclaimed.</P> <P>Suddenly the room seemed to darken and the Shin Lord grew in stature. His eyes glowed a malevolent yellow and his green froglok skin began to sag and drip. Patryn stared in horror as the Shin Lord raised Ghoulbane. As he did so Ghoulbane lit with an inner fire and the pommel seemed to burst into flame. The Shin Lord let out a startled yelp and dropped the weapon.</P> <P>"You have ruined your own lands. I will not let you ruin mine." The Shin Lord yelled as he rushed towards Patryn, claws seeming to grow out of his hands. Patryn finally realized then that the Shin Lord had indeed fallen from grace and was longer his brother in arms. From the niches in the walls froglok knights and shaman rushed to the aid of their Lord. A necromancer began casting a spell of ruin and Patryn felt the lifeforce draining from him. In despair Patryn lifted his blackened iron [Removed for Content] sword with one hand while fingering his holy symbol with his other. He felt warmth flowing through him and felt strangely rejuvenated. Silently thanking Mithanial Marr, Patryn turned towards the Froglok lord. He was feeling magnficent of spirit now and could feel a coat of transparent armor coating him. Suddenly mystic symbols flashed before his eyes and he knew then that he had the full backing of Marr in this endeaver as he felt more vitality than he had in years.</P> <P>"To battle my fellow warriors. Together we must destroy this infestation." Patryn yelled.</P> <P>As he said this his companions began killing the froglok knights and shaman. The spellcasters unleashed their mighty spells and a huge inferno blazed within the room separating Patryn from his companions. He was alone facing the Shin Lord, who seemed to be quite formidable. With one last prayer Patryn raised his sword, and prepared to defend himself.</P> <P>The Shin Lord rushed forward and with his bare hands and seemed to move faster than thought breaking through Patryn's defenses and slashing him with the webbed claws. Patryn turned quickly and parried the next blow, and the one after dodging a kick from the froglok in the process. The Shin Lord kept attacking, seeming to derive his strength from the madness which drove him. As he continued attacking recklessly Patryn saw his chance and swung with both arms driving his sword into the froglok. Miraculously the Shin Lord began to claw at Patryn’s face with the sword impaled in his breast. As he did so he drove the sword deeper and deeper, yet he seemed to not even feel it. Patryn quickly backed up in horror, and withdrew his sword. As he did so the froglok’s wound seemed to close over itself. He realized then that the necromancer was healing the froglok lord. Seeing the necromancer in the corner in the midst of casting his dark magics, Patryn called upon the might of Mithanial Marr and struck down the necromancer expulsing him to the glory of the gods. For good measure he drove his sword deep into the necromancer and watched as it squirmed until finally it had breathed its last.</P> <P>Turning back to the Shin Lord, Patryn moved too late to deflect a blow aimed for his exposed back, the claws of the Shin Lord ripped through the plate mail and tore a deep gash into Patryn’s back. Feeling woozy, from the lack of blood and the spells of the necromancer, Patryn knew he could expect no help from his companions who were still desperately fighting their own battle. Resolutely he turned back to the Shin Lord only to be driven back by a kick to the groin followed by a claw to his arm tearing into sinew and flesh. Patryn gritted his teeth in agony, as he saw that his left arm would be useless for some time as pus and blood oozed from the claw marks. He valiently raised his sword to defend himself but knew that the end was near. He was weakening from a loss of blood and the Shin Lord seemed to gain new strength from seeing his enemy’s blood flowing freely. The Shin Lord attacked again and Patryn knew that he faced death. He silently prayed to Marr for the safety of his companions, before the final blow came. The impact knocked him off his feet and as he lay upon the ground, he saw the Golden Knight standing before him. His spirit soared as he knew he was going into the embrace of Marr.</P> <P>In the next moment Patryn felt a healing touch. His wounds began to close and strength returned to his arms. He felt revitalized and faced the froglok lord once more. As he did so he seemed to glow a bright golden color. His armor was no longer the silver plate which had been handcrafted for him by Inknar Fireforge, instead it was the color of bright flame. His sword was no longer the deep black, but instead felt lighter in his hand, and when he looked at it in awe it seemed to burst into flame. As the Shin Lord rushed forward, he raised his sword in both hands and with a prayer to Marr swung his blade cleaving the Shin Lord in two. The Froglok’s legs kept walking two more steps forward before collapsing next to its torso and head.</P> <P>Patryn knelt down and closed the eyelids of the Shin Lord and stood up to rush to the aid of his companions. He found them standing around him reverently, bruised but quite alive, the bodies of the frogloks fallen around them. Moving to the throne, Patryn retrieved the Ghoulbane, and as he lifted it he felt the rightness of his holding the blade. He knew then what he had come to do and why Marr had sent him the vision. With one last look at the froglok Shin Lord he and his companions left the palace, the blight had been cleaned from the heart of Guk.</P> <P>Patryn Brightflame "</P> <P>-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------</P> <P>Noticed the whole hand bursting into flame thing when the Shin Lord had fallen from grace.... </P> <P>You see paladins are not asking for something that would be new to them.  Besides what I'm after here is an offical word from SOE.  </P></DIV></DIV>

[Keet]

<DIV>and that fan fiction story you posted is supposed to mean what?</DIV>

[RAYVEN2]

<DIV> <DIV>The story above shows how much paladin lore has been built around this blade.  This weapon is a paladin only holy blade as the story illustrates.  The story shows how when the shinlord lost the favor of the gods and his status as a paladin he also lost the ability to even wield the ghoulbane.   The story shows why paladins feel that is was a mistake/oversight/bug that the sword is usable by all.    </DIV> <DIV>__________________________________________________ ________________________________________________  </DIV> <DIV> <DIV>Keethe said:</DIV> <DIV>"If they think like a paladin, then they would be a paladin?  Drizzt ring a bell...not a paladin, but can you argue that he is not as noble and righteous as any paladin there is?  I think perhaps, abstract concepts might be a bit much for some of you.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>God1: we should bequeth that man a holy sword, he fights valiantly for righteousness and good.</DIV> <DIV>God2: Nah, he ain't a paly.  Got to join the club or we can't see the goodness in him, remember?"</DIV> <DIV>__________________________________________________ ________________________________________________</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>There is a difference between a warrior who fights for good and a paladin.   A paladin dedicates himself to a particular god and draws his power against evil from his faith in his god.   A warrior does not attempt to draw his powers from the gods.  A warrior draws his power from within himself and although his heroic actions might get him favor with a god he has not dedicated himself to one to the degree a paladin has.   A paladin is a religious zealot/fanatic who has completely dedicated himself to his god and the will of that god.  His actions are dictated by his faith and therefore in every act he makes he has the blessing of his god.  The holy sword is a symbol of the paladins faith.  It is a blessed consecrated  item bestowed on a paladin by the gods as a symbol of faith.  The moment the Paladin loses his faith he loses the ability to wield the sword.   Weapons given to non-holy warriors as a sign of favor from the gods is a gift  with no pre-req since its given as a sign of pleasure with his deeds and not as a symbol of religon.  This is how its been generally viewed by most fantasy novels, movies and video games including EQ1.   </DIV></DIV></DIV> <P> </P><p>Message Edited by RAYVEN2 on <span class=date_text>12-23-2004</span> <span class=time_text>06:46 PM</span>

[rws-da]

<DIV>The only reason the Ghoulbane is in EQ2 is because it was in EQ1, so the whole "this is a different game" arguement is crap.  Warriors get the Shiny Brass Halberd so the whole "not if nobody else gets anything cool" arguement is crap.  In early EQ1, Monks used fists so goodluck with that one (they also weren't tanks).  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>That leaves Paladins and Shadowknights, so give them the freaking Ghoulbane!   With SK's corruptable of course.  </DIV>

[asteldian]

<DIV>Right, so now SKs want in on it too? Its not right for all to be able to use it due to lore but now we can make an exception for SKs because..they want it?</DIV>

[Ryune2]

<DIV> <DIV><EM>Written By Keethe</EM></DIV> <DIV><EM></EM> </DIV> <DIV><EM>God1: we should bequeth that man a holy sword, he fights valiantly for righteousness and good.</EM></DIV> <DIV><EM>God2: Nah, he ain't a paly.  Got to join the club or we can't see the goodness in him, remember?</EM></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As a pally who played eq1 I started off reading this thread with a violent (i mean like left wing political violent) belief that this should be a pally only weapon and though i don't agre with alot of the other things keethe has said about just how uber having [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]ty spells that fizzle right wen you need them this one quote just kinda pushed me over the edge - if someone is worthy someone is worthy. I worked my butt off for ghoulbane in eq1 and am gonna work my butt off for it in eq2 and i'm gonna be proud when i get it and i'm not gonna care who else has it. Now when i get my hopebringer.... thats a different story alltogether <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV></DIV>

[RAYVEN2]

<DIV>I just wanna see a paladin only holy sword like in EQ1 and almost all the other RPGs I've played.  Honestly I been stuck on the GB because it seems like the only holy sword in this game.  Soulfire is in the hands of the leader of freeport and unless there is a quest to off him I doubt anyone will be getting that sword anytime soon.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I do disagree and think that there is a difference between one who fights for faith and one that fights because he thinks its the right thing to do.  There is a big difference between a religous zealot and a dedicated warrior.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Just my opinion and i think everyone has them.  </DIV>

[Truly Devo]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> RAYVEN2 wrote:<BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I do disagree and think that there is a difference between one who fights for faith and one that fights because he thinks its the right thing to do.  There is a big difference between a religous zealot and a dedicated warrior.  <BR> <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff00>Then you know nothing of paladins.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff00>A paladin (in modern lore, of course) enters a battle because he must - either due to his belief in the right of his actions, or in order to protect the innocent.  His faith is more than motivation - it's his weapon and his armor.  He and his diety are allied in purpose, and as long as this remains so he will have his diety's protection.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff00>A dashing rogue may rescue a peasant family from a band of rampaging gnolls, but he does it for very different reasons than the paladin.   A paladin protects the innocent because he cannot imagine <EM>not</EM> doing so.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff00>Dedicated warriors in EQ1 tended often enough to follow Rallos Zek, the god of war.   You'll note that there are no paladins of Zek, and with good reason.   The war god was an EVIL being.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff00>You were right though - there IS a difference between a paladin and a warrior.   A warrior can entertain a greater degree of moral flexibility in their actions, or even be downright evil.  A paladin cannot, at least according to the fiction.</FONT></DIV>

[Sant]

<DIV>By that logic there should be no paladins, Since the gods are gone pallys really are just mages with a sword whats holy about that. Holy went out the window when the gods left. </DIV>

[Spirit]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Santsu wrote:<BR> <DIV>By that logic there should be no paladins, Since the gods are gone pallys really are just mages with a sword whats holy about that. Holy went out the window when the gods left. </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> You only think the gods are gone. Who is it giving Clerics the power to heal, the Necro's to command undead? Their influence is still there, but they no longer present their image. The faithful still serve their gods, and are rewarded for it. The gods have a hand to play yet.<p>Message Edited by Spirited on <span class=date_text>12-28-2004</span> <span class=time_text>07:36 PM</span>

[Ryune2]

<DIV>Truly devote said :<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> RAYVEN2 wrote:<BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I do disagree and think that there is a difference between one who fights for faith and one that fights because he thinks its the right thing to do.  There is a big difference between a religous zealot and a dedicated warrior.  <BR> <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff00>Then you know nothing of paladins.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff00>A paladin (in modern lore, of course) enters a battle because he must - either due to his belief in the right of his actions, or in order to protect the innocent.  His faith is more than motivation - it's his weapon and his armor.  He and his diety are allied in purpose, and as long as this remains so he will have his diety's protection.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff00>A dashing rogue may rescue a peasant family from a band of rampaging gnolls, but he does it for very different reasons than the paladin.   A paladin protects the innocent because he cannot imagine <EM>not</EM> doing so.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff00>Dedicated warriors in EQ1 tended often enough to follow Rallos Zek, the god of war.   You'll note that there are no paladins of Zek, and with good reason.   The war god was an EVIL being.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff00>You were right though - there IS a difference between a paladin and a warrior.   A warrior can entertain a greater degree of moral flexibility in their actions, or even be downright evil.  A paladin cannot, at least according to the fiction</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff>ummmmm why does rayven know nothing of paladins. I believe you just elaboratedon what he said, not contraicted it</FONT></DIV></DIV>

[Thaurnovi]

<DIV><FONT color=#ffffff>I've been playing a Paladin in EQ 1 for almost 5 years now.  It is quite disheartening to hear that Ghoulbanes are useuable by every sword wielding class.  The Ghoulbane's story is very rich with paladin lore and for those posting without ever knowing its lore, please do so before commenting.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now maybe we are all jumping the gun here by saying that this should only be ours,  but with our limited weapon selection in EQ 2 and the history of the Ghoulbane, for the rest of the EQ 2 players who do not play a paladin class please understand why paladins are crying foul here.  Unlike monks, who choose not to use weapons of any type except staves because of their discipline (so monks please don't cry foul when you have limited weapon selection, beacuse you really do!), paladins use a variety of weapons to dispose their enemies.   Albeit not as good as a pure fighting class.  So to see that not only one of our beloved weapons in EQ is something of a trivial weapon usuable by everyone, and the fact that we can't bloody use anything in the game (exageration), is really a slap in the face by SoE to us loyal paladin fans.  </DIV>

[Rpgplay]

<DIV>The fact that your horse actually gives you a speed buff is WAY more than enough to make up for other classes getting to use Ghoulbane. I never thought id see a Paladin whining after they got to keep the horse speed buff.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Get over it. =P</DIV>

[Thaurnovi]

<DIV>Our horse is a spell, and it is not that fast.  And our speed buff (the horse), as you so aptly put it, is not usable indoors, hence its effectiveness is limited.  Just because it looks "cool" doesn't mean it compensates for the lack of weapon selection.  Go get informed before you flame someone.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[P]

<DIV>First time posting.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And somethings would like to say as a <A href="mailto<img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />ally@Norrath" target=_blank>Pally @ Norrath</A>, now and 500years before.</DIV> <DIV>Concerning the Ghoulbane, or any other holy/un-holy/magical swords, it shouldn't be Class Specific, as of what I think.  Although I did play EQ1 for 5years+, as a Pally and I did have the Ghoulbane, and I was also the one who had to kill a paladin to attain the so called "holy weapon".  For the youngers, yes, Ghoulbane is a quest, but for the olders, yes we have ripped it off from a friend Paladin.  From this point is everyone here saying this is a Paladin only sword?  Is this what "noble" is?  I don't care about short stories, or what people's imagination had grown, fine for a point of entertainment/knowledge/different aspect, but using them as references, is some what miss leading.</DIV> <DIV>Plus, we're talking about an item here.  Why does this item have to be Pally only?  because of EQ1?  because of imaginated stories?  From the threads here, people seem to be, holy swords are for Paladins, and nothing between.  No, as of my understanding, Holy Swords is just an item to fight against the Un-Holy, vice versa.  From this point of view, more Ghoulbane weilders means much fear to the Un-holy, and won't this be better than having a 1 specific class having a great weapon?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Well the above is my opinion hoping some other pallys will think about it too.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But one idea to make probably everyone a bit happier....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As of the game, I still don't like the idea of Class Specific Items.  Whats the difference between Ghoulbane and other blessed/magical/holy/unholy 1HS?  It's just a Magical Sword, or blessed by someone you worship, etc.  Well better stats, but as an item/object, its the same.  If you can put your hands on it, theoretically, you can use it, if you don't have that particular skill to use, then offcoarse you can't use it though.  If there is a neccessity to have Class Specific Items, curse it so that if Other non-specific class uses GB, they get a status minus, but will get the same dmg/delay as a good weapon.  Same goes to the other class specific items,  If the pally tries to use the War Epic 2HS (sorry forgot all the 500year older class specific items other than pally stuffs), let us use it with a minus stat.  Nothing on their list of magic shall proc from the weapon since they are not in our profession/we're not blessed by them.  Make it like that, sure sounds realistic (in a fantazy world?) to me.  Put it this way, the right class gets to use it 100%, while the others gets to use it 60-75% out of it.   If this comes, or any other ideas like this comes out, then I can understand Class Specific Items.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Gieese / Elpeo @ Stormhammer / Saryrn // Blackborrow @ all pallies and nothing else. </DIV>

[N7649U]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA I AM A SHADOW KNIGHT AND I WILL WIELD THE GHOULBANE!!!!! AND TO TOP IT OFF IM AN IKSAR!!!! GOODY GOODY PALADINS MUST DIE!!!!!GORN28 SHADOW KNIGHT, EATER OF BABIES, DOER OF NO GOOD, MAKER OF THE BEST HALFLING PIE IN NORRATH!<p>Message Edited by N7649U on <span class=date_text>01-14-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:19 AM</span>

[GilfalasElaandrin]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Unlike monks, who choose not to use weapons of any type except staves because of their discipline (so monks please don't cry foul when you have limited weapon selection, beacuse you really do!), <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Actually as a weaponsmith I can tell you that monks are not as bereft of weapon options as you think. There are at lesat 3 Hand to hand weapons and one blunt dual weildable weapon I can make for monks in my recipe books every tier.</P> <P>The various Cestii/Cetus incarnations allow monks access to bludgeoning, pierceing and slashing damage for their attacks, not to mention some nice weaopn animations and graphics. The combat rods especially look very nice when dual wielded.</P> <P>Additionally, woodworkers can also make wooden staves and batons that are 2 handed or duel wieldable that monks can use as well.</P> <P>To summarize: Monks get access to hand to hand with bare fists, two handed staffs, duel wieldable one handed batons and rods, Cestii, bladed Cestii, spiked Cesti,  hand wraps and reinforced kniuckle weapon. The last 5 on that list are hand to hand based.</P> <P>Sure, not the large selection available to other melees, but not bad by far either.</P> <P> <HR> HAHAHAHAHAHAHA I AM A SHADOW KNIGHT AND I WILL WIELD THE GHOULBANE!!!!! AND TO TOP IT OFF IM AN IKSAR!!!! GOODY GOODY PALADINS MUST DIE!!!!!<BR> <HR> </P> <P>I can hear anient Iksar rolling in their graves now, a once ancient, proud and dark race reduced to the sophmoric rantings of a seemingly prepubescent hatchling. How will any iksar ever strike fear into the softskins when they are known for taunts like a line out of peewee's playhouse...</P><p>Message Edited by GilfalasElaandrin on <span class=date_text>01-14-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:43 AM</span>

[N7649U]

haha thats a good one... 5 stars for you!Im still going to eat baby halflings though!Gorn

[Culann Heartsto]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Stormreaver wrote:<BR> <DIV>There are no class restrictions on any item in EQ", only skill restrictions. Ghouldbane will be usable by anyone with the skill to use it. The Gods are gone, accept it.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <P>As someone else posted, come back when you have a clue about the Paladin class.  Moreover, come back when you get a clue that it has nothing to do with the Gods or not, the same way I can still LoH without the Gods being present.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[Culann Heartsto]

<DIV>My thoughts here...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Lot of them actually...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>First off, the Ghoulbane IS a holy sword..all you people out there babbling about it, can just keep right on babbling..it's a holy sword, was made a holy sword in EQ1 and it remains as one today.  One that I think, yes, is bugged.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Paladins ARE still Holy Knights.  Again, babble all you want, but tell me this, amidst your babbling..if we're not Holy Knights, then where does LoH come from?  Where do our heals, healing and protection spells come from?   Just because the Gods are absent, doesn't remove the shroud of holiness from anything.  If you think otherwise, you need to wise up.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I am all for people being able to do the Ghoulbane quest and finish it, however I am NOT all for people wielding it after finished.  This is based on the now-and-current understanding I have that completing the Ghoulbane, whether or not you can use it, <U>still yields 50K in status and almost 7 full bubbles of completed XP (gold, not blue).</U> Regardless of use, that's still nice IMO, and I know some in my guild now who cannot use, are still working through it for no OTHER reason but that.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The more I listen to people, the more I think people want to gripe because someone took a deeper breath than they did.  And yet when a valid concern does come up, people want to drag those with the concern down.  It baffles me sometimes to try to understand the emotion or logic driving this sort of mentality.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Regardless, I think the Ghoulbane SHOULD be based soley and exclusively on Determined Faith once completed, and I will be bugging it on routine basis, as well as encouraging the Holy Knights in my guild to do so as well.  Persistence, and patience are the keys here I think.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[EvilIguana9]

The concept of class specific weapons is as old as the RPG genre itself. Weapons of this type wielded by the wrong person were either ineffective or detrimental. After all, if a diety or other powerful being forges a powerful holy relic they would obviously want to prevent it from falling into the wrong hands and being used for the wrong purpose. The whole holy sword quest concept has always been intertwined with the lore and legend of the paladin class. In many other games part of the paladin class definition is that there are specific class defining quests that become a hallmark in the character's journey. Paladins lives are typically defined by a quest or quests of some sort, and most people who play paladins in EQ 2 would like to see that piece of lore in the game.But it would certainly be unfair to let other classes unknowingly go through a long quest only to end up with something they cannot use and cannot trade. That is why I propose a simple follow up quest that would result in an item usable by the class that completes it. For a shadow knight the quest would result in a dark priest being able to convert it to a corrupted ghoulbane, for other classes you could be rewarded by turning the weapon into one of the npc paladins for safe keeping. In the end we solve both issues with lore and issues with balance.

[AlleySpa]

<DIV>I agree it's unfair to let someone go through a quest for somthing they cannot use yet I have the serated bone dirk and shiny brass halbred sitting in my bank come on people get a CLUE.  Its sad to see a discussion going on for somthing that should be common sense holy weapon+ holy knight= plain logic yea there's the argument that it's unfair but take that up with sony I can't be the only person that hayes the fact that we are all mirrior images of each other I sjould be able to look at someone and know there class instead we are all reduced to basically three classes Tank, caster, Dps no individuality, it's the whole overall system that needs examining and everyone who thinks the pally should not get a horse or a "holy" weapon as its own enjoys the current system of being a nameless face in a crowd.  When we all picked our profession i'm sure we put alot of thought in it yet my paladin looks just like a shadowknight and a templar looks just like an inquisitor suppsedly distinct opposites yet they are twins doesn't make sense when u think of it does it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I can understand soe wanting to make it so everyone gets to do what they want yet if anyone can weild a holy weapon because the gods are gone who's stopping me from duel blading and wouldn't a true darknight be appaled at the thought of using a weapon of good its just stupid nothing less nothing more.</DIV>

[prisoner]

<DIV>What an annoying thread.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Let me summarize for those just coming to this thread and dont want to read through all the annoying stuff.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>OP: Ghoulbane should be paladin only.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Most other Paladins: We agree,  but also think there should be other class specific weapons for others.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Non-Paladin tanks(mainly guardians):  We want it too,  no fair for you to get a holy sword and horse!  Waaa Waaa Waaa. We are the uberest tank!!!11</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Melee Dps: Hey if I can do the quest,  I want to be able to use it.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>To sum it all up:  paladin envy.  A self only speed buff that looks like a horse,  and a weapon with some decent stats that is good against undead.  Hell,  we've got it made!  Doesn't matter one bit that I cant use a tower shield or use a range slot item and are the most limited in weapons.  I've a horse!  I can do extra damage vs undead!  Look me I'm the bestest!  For now,  the sword isn't paladin only (yet) but if SOE wants to stick to the lore,  like they've been advertising and trying to,  they'll fix it.  I dont mind that every other class gets stuff I dont,  why everyone else is hell bent over the stuff we get is beyond me.  Balance certainly isn't an issue.  I've grouped with every tank class,  they all tank just as good as I do with the gear and skills they are given.  If someone is complaining that one is better than another,  I'm thinking that you just aren't too keen on your own skills and abilities.  </DIV>

[N7649U]

I doubt SOE will do this for you guys since it would be the only weapon in the game that is only usable by 1 class. What would happen to the countless others who have it now who arent paladins? Realize guys the game is not built for class specific weapons, maybe in the future but as of now asking for the GB to be paladin is unreasonable. Dont be surpised if they add class quests that yield specific items for each class, but they will do it in a fair manner and not just for paladins.GORN 30 SKyes yes 1 star me cause i am a SK, feed my evil

[vwlsskng]

<DIV>Stop your whining, you white-lighters. Shouldn't you be helping a kitten out of a tree?</DIV>

[vwlsskng]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> N7649U wrote:<BR>HAHAHAHAHAHAHA I AM A SHADOW KNIGHT AND I WILL WIELD THE GHOULBANE!!!!! AND TO TOP IT OFF IM AN IKSAR!!!! GOODY GOODY PALADINS MUST DIE!!!!!<BR><BR><BR>GORN<BR>28 SHADOW KNIGHT, EATER OF BABIES, DOER OF NO GOOD, MAKER OF THE BEST HALFLING PIE IN NORRATH! <P>Message Edited by N7649U on <SPAN class=date_text>01-14-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>09:19 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> I was a DE SK in EQL who wielded Greenmist. I was hated by many Iksar SKs. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[vwlsskng]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> AlleySpade wrote:<BR> <DIV>I agree it's unfair to let someone go through a quest for somthing they cannot use yet I have the serated bone dirk and shiny brass halbred sitting in my bank come on people get a CLUE.  Its sad to see a discussion going on for somthing that should be common sense holy weapon+ holy knight= plain logic yea there's the argument that it's unfair but take that up with sony I can't be the only person that hayes the fact that we are all mirrior images of each other I sjould be able to look at someone and know there class instead we are all reduced to basically three classes Tank, caster, Dps no individuality, it's the whole overall system that needs examining and everyone who thinks the pally should not get a horse or a "holy" weapon as its own enjoys the current system of being a nameless face in a crowd.  When we all picked our profession i'm sure we put alot of thought in it yet my paladin looks just like a shadowknight and a templar looks just like an inquisitor suppsedly distinct opposites yet they are twins doesn't make sense when u think of it does it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I can understand soe wanting to make it so everyone gets to do what they want yet if anyone can weild a holy weapon because the gods are gone who's stopping me from duel blading and wouldn't a true darknight be appaled at the thought of using a weapon of good its just stupid nothing less nothing more.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>A dark knight would revel in the corruption of such a weapon by calling it his own.<BR>

[vwlsskng]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> prisoner17 wrote: <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>To sum it all up:  paladin envy.<BR> <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>It's human nature to envy what you cannot have.<BR>

[reaper]

<DIV>I hate to edge on the debate here.. but if you agrue and petition</DIV> <DIV>the Ghoulbane to be a pally weapon only.. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>SK can say the same thing about the "Electrified Bone Bladed Claymore"</DIV> <DIV> <DIV>Should be for the SK only.. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><A href="http://eq2.ogaming.com/db/items/ElectrifiedBoneBladedClaymore.php" target=_blank><FONT color=#c8c1b5>http://eq2.ogaming.com/db/items/ElectrifiedBoneBladedClaymore.php</FONT></A></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#c8c1b5></FONT> </DIV> <DIV>This weapon was taken from a Troll SK... and placed in the</DIV> <DIV>Halls of SH... (Glowing Weapon on the top of the Staircase.)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Which one would you like to have at Lv. 50?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And yes I have been flamed by Pally's when they see me with </DIV> <DIV>Ghoulbane equiped... but it's a game.. and there isn't many </DIV> <DIV>Quests for Crusaders as it is..</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><A href="http://eq2.ogaming.com/db/items/Ghoulbane.php" target=_blank>http://eq2.ogaming.com/db/items/Ghoulbane.php</A></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>*Edit - Link *</DIV></DIV><p>Message Edited by reaper98 on <span class=date_text>01-18-2005</span> <span class=time_text>12:50 PM</span>

[Jarl]

<DIV>Who cares that other sword classes can use it.  Just accept that over time the object has been preverted and is not the same as it was before.  Whatever you need to do to get yourself over the fact that other classes can use it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It is a powerful item and if it were to become PAL only a matching item would need to be added to the game for the SK class, war, etc.  Seems like a lot of work just so that the Paladins can have something all to themselves.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Jarl]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> <A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/view_profile?user.id=16044" target=_blank><SPAN>Culann Heartstone</SPAN></A> wrote:<BR> <DIV> <DIV> <DIV>First off, the Ghoulbane IS a holy sword..all you people out there babbling about it, can just keep right on babbling..it's a holy sword, was made a holy sword in EQ1 and it remains as one today.  One that I think, yes, is bugged.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Paladins ARE still Holy Knights.  Again, babble all you want, but tell me this, amidst your babbling..if we're not Holy Knights, then where does LoH come from?  Where do our heals, healing and protection spells come from?   Just because the Gods are absent, doesn't remove the shroud of holiness from anything.  If you think otherwise, you need to wise up.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I am all for people being able to do the Ghoulbane quest and finish it, however I am NOT all for people wielding it after finished.  This is based on the now-and-current understanding I have that completing the Ghoulbane, whether or not you can use it, <U>still yields 50K in status and almost 7 full bubbles of completed XP (gold, not blue).</U> Regardless of use, that's still nice IMO, and I know some in my guild now who cannot use, are still working through it for no OTHER reason but that.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The more I listen to people, the more I think people want to gripe because someone took a deeper breath than they did.  And yet when a valid concern does come up, people want to drag those with the concern down.  It baffles me sometimes to try to understand the emotion or logic driving this sort of mentality.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Regardless, I think the Ghoulbane SHOULD be based soley and exclusively on Determined Faith once completed, and I will be bugging it on routine basis, as well as encouraging the Holy Knights in my guild to do so as well.  Persistence, and patience are the keys here I think.</DIV></DIV></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Yes, Ghoulbane is a holy sword.</P> <P>Yes, Paladins are holy knights.</P> <P>No, the sword should not be limited to Paladins. </P> <P>One key part of your logic is missing...Shadowknights are holy knights as well.</P> <P><STRONG>ho·ly<FONT size=2> </FONT></STRONG> <A href="http://education.yahoo.com/reference/dictionary/pronounce?id=H0245800&path=prons/H0239200.wav" target=_blank><IMG src="http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/edu/reference/dictionary/audio_key2.gif" border=0></A> (h<IMG src="http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/edu/ref/ahd/s/omacr.gif" border=0><IMG src="http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/edu/ref/ahd/s/prime.gif" border=0>l<IMG src="http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/edu/ref/ahd/s/emacr.gif" border=0>) <FONT size=-2><A href="http://education.yahoo.com/reference/dictionary/pronunciation_key" target=_blank>KEY</A> </FONT> <BR><BR><FONT face=arial size=-1><B>ADJECTIVE:</B> </FONT><BR><B><FONT face=arial,sans-serif size=-1>ho·li·er</FONT> </B>, <B><FONT face=arial,sans-serif size=-1>ho·li·est</FONT> </B></P> <OL> <LI>Belonging to, derived from, or associated with a divine power; sacred.</LI> <LI>Regarded with or worthy of worship or veneration; revered: <I><FONT size=+0>a holy book.</FONT> </I></LI> <LI>Living according to a strict or highly moral religious or spiritual system; saintly: <I><FONT size=+0>a holy person.</FONT> </I></LI> <LI>Specified or set apart for a religious purpose: <I><FONT size=+0>a holy place.</FONT> </I></LI> <LI>Solemnly undertaken; sacrosanct: <I><FONT size=+0>a holy pledge.</FONT> </I></LI> <LI>Regarded as deserving special respect or reverence: <I><FONT size=+0>The pursuit of peace is our holiest quest.</FONT> </I></LI> <LI><U><I>Informal</I> </U>Used as an intensive: <I><FONT size=+0>raised holy hell over the mischief their children did.</FONT> </I></LI></OL> <P>Shadowknights get their power from the gods just the same as the Paladins do.  The difference is they worrship darker gods then the paladins.  So if the sword is holy then lets allow any holy power to use it. </P> <P>How is the sword holy, but yet limited to only 1 side of the holy knight equation???</P> <P><BR> </P> <DIV> </DIV>

[RAYVEN2]

<DIV>This is a dead topic.  I got a response already from SOE.  It is intended that the ghoulsbane is usable by all who can wield a sword.   Its SOEs game and they make the rules.  This is not a bug or an oversight.    </DIV>

[AlleySpa]

<DIV> <P>How is the sword holy, but yet limited to only 1 side of the holy knight equation???</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P>Because shadowknights are actually an "Unholy" order look at it as simple as u guy's worship the devil we worship the lord why would we use the same blessed weapon?</P> <P>But oh well it's not going to change anything all classes are constrained to their armor class and weapon type I wouldn't care if there were some sword blessed by lucan that only sk's could use it would be a step in the right direction, it would be nice to look at someone and know there class without having to examine instead we are all look alikes.</P></DIV>

[vwlsskng]

<DIV>Bring back the Noct blade!</DIV>

[GilfalasElaandrin]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> <DIV>SK can say the same thing about the "Electrified Bone Bladed Claymore"</DIV> <DIV> <DIV>Should be for the SK only.. <HR> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Works for me. BBC is an evil blade through and through and I have no problem at all with it being SK only. Or even Freeport only.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Anyways 70% of a melee pc's damage comes from their weapon abilities rather than the weapon itself in any case. So the difference between the 'uber' questable weapons and the player makable ones is small enough that it is not really a titanic factor in combat, really.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Yes, better weapons are better. But the <EM>smart </EM>player is best with the current game design. The degree of advantage offered by the better weapons is small when compared to the overall damage that a players ABILITIES provide in combat.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Upgrading your weaopon alone may be a 2-3% damage upgrade. Upgrading all your abilities may be a 10-20% damage upgrade, perhpas more.</DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>

[ArsenaI]

<DIV>The problem with Paladins getting the Ghoulbane exclusively and SK's getting the Electrified Bone Bladed Claymore exclusively is that they are not both 1h weapons. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I am a Shadowknight, I am a newcomer to EverQuest. I understand after reading this why Paladins feel it should be theirs only. If this is the case however the other sword weilding classes must be given a 1h of equal stats, different name and different appearance. I personally believe that if the is a Paladin weapon from EQ1 that it should stay that way, but in no way shouldyou get a weapon that is better then what an equal lvl SK can use.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Just my $0.02 worth, I have not read the whole thread but felt that a mature SK should post after some of the childish ones I did see scanning through.</DIV>

[Darki]

This thread is pointless. Ghoulbane will be grey by level 45 and you sure won't be using it at level 50.

[Culann Heartsto]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Jarlax wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> <A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/view_profile?user.id=16044" target=_blank><SPAN>Culann Heartstone</SPAN></A> wrote:<BR> <DIV> <DIV> <DIV>First off, the Ghoulbane IS a holy sword..all you people out there babbling about it, can just keep right on babbling..it's a holy sword, was made a holy sword in EQ1 and it remains as one today.  One that I think, yes, is bugged.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Paladins ARE still Holy Knights.  Again, babble all you want, but tell me this, amidst your babbling..if we're not Holy Knights, then where does LoH come from?  Where do our heals, healing and protection spells come from?   Just because the Gods are absent, doesn't remove the shroud of holiness from anything.  If you think otherwise, you need to wise up.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I am all for people being able to do the Ghoulbane quest and finish it, however I am NOT all for people wielding it after finished.  This is based on the now-and-current understanding I have that completing the Ghoulbane, whether or not you can use it, <U>still yields 50K in status and almost 7 full bubbles of completed XP (gold, not blue).</U> Regardless of use, that's still nice IMO, and I know some in my guild now who cannot use, are still working through it for no OTHER reason but that.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The more I listen to people, the more I think people want to gripe because someone took a deeper breath than they did.  And yet when a valid concern does come up, people want to drag those with the concern down.  It baffles me sometimes to try to understand the emotion or logic driving this sort of mentality.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Regardless, I think the Ghoulbane SHOULD be based soley and exclusively on Determined Faith once completed, and I will be bugging it on routine basis, as well as encouraging the Holy Knights in my guild to do so as well.  Persistence, and patience are the keys here I think.</DIV></DIV></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Yes, Ghoulbane is a holy sword.</P> <P>Yes, Paladins are holy knights.</P> <P>No, the sword should not be limited to Paladins. </P> <P>One key part of your logic is missing...Shadowknights are holy knights as well.</P> <P><STRONG>ho·ly<FONT size=2> </FONT></STRONG> <A href="http://education.yahoo.com/reference/dictionary/pronounce?id=H0245800&path=prons/H0239200.wav" target=_blank><IMG src="http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/edu/reference/dictionary/audio_key2.gif" border=0></A> (h<IMG src="http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/edu/ref/ahd/s/omacr.gif" border=0><IMG src="http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/edu/ref/ahd/s/prime.gif" border=0>l<IMG src="http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/edu/ref/ahd/s/emacr.gif" border=0>) <FONT size=-2><A href="http://education.yahoo.com/reference/dictionary/pronunciation_key" target=_blank>KEY</A> </FONT> <BR><BR><FONT face=arial size=-1><B>ADJECTIVE:</B> </FONT><BR><B><FONT face=arial,sans-serif size=-1>ho·li·er</FONT> </B>, <B><FONT face=arial,sans-serif size=-1>ho·li·est</FONT> </B></P> <OL> <LI>Belonging to, derived from, or associated with a divine power; sacred.</LI> <LI>Regarded with or worthy of worship or veneration; revered: <I><FONT size=+0>a holy book.</FONT> </I></LI> <LI>Living according to a strict or highly moral religious or spiritual system; saintly: <I><FONT size=+0>a holy person.</FONT> </I></LI> <LI>Specified or set apart for a religious purpose: <I><FONT size=+0>a holy place.</FONT> </I></LI> <LI>Solemnly undertaken; sacrosanct: <I><FONT size=+0>a holy pledge.</FONT> </I></LI> <LI>Regarded as deserving special respect or reverence: <I><FONT size=+0>The pursuit of peace is our holiest quest.</FONT> </I></LI> <LI><U><I>Informal</I> </U>Used as an intensive: <I><FONT size=+0>raised holy hell over the mischief their children did.</FONT> </I></LI></OL> <P>Shadowknights get their power from the gods just the same as the Paladins do.  The difference is they worrship darker gods then the paladins.  So if the sword is holy then lets allow any holy power to use it. </P> <P>How is the sword holy, but yet limited to only 1 side of the holy knight equation???</P> <P><BR> </P> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Good try, but totally facetious logic.  SKs are not 'holy' knights.  They are 'unholy' knights instead.  For everything that the Paladin stands for, the SKs stand for the opposite.  The Ghoulbane was explicitly a 'holy' sword in EQ1, wieldable only by Paladins.  Therefore by logical continuatiobn of logic, the Paladins should be the only class that can wield the selfsame sword in EQ2.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Good try on the semantics, and all the lil stuff you threw in like the definition, but the core logic is about as stable as a glass house under a boulder avalanche, I.E. terrible.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Ra]

Regardless, unless I miss my mark, in the world of EQ2, SK's, being a continuation of Crusaders as well, still derive their power from the faith free. which means changing ghoulbane to such allows them to weild it as well.However I do agree that Ghoulbane should not be usable by all sword classes. Those [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] Guardians and others already have the SBH that a Paladin cant touch. Ya know, since we stoped training in anything but swords and hammers it seems.

[Durlinn]

<DIV>Gotta love all these people swearing in anger that Ghoulbane was a pally only weapon in EQ1. If you dont really know the information, then [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]. My ogre SK used  a corrupted GB for a long time. The more I play this game, the more I realize its only connected to EQ1 with Names and Titles. Dont expect any continuity. Do I believe other classes than Knights should wield GB? NO. Do I believe Knights should be limited to the few weapons available? NO. Does it really matter, considering you'll outlevel the weapon before you soil your platemail depends? Hell no. We havent even gotten into class specific gear and weaps yet. So sit back, pull another bong hit, and enjoy the funnest game on the market. :smileywink:</DIV>

[Kama]

<DIV>ok, i played EQlive for 5yrs and never heard or saw a Corrputed Ghoulbane, i heard there was a way to but it wasn't useable, it was part of the SK epic. please clear that up, And just to verifiy i know what i'm talking about i played on Lany's from before kurnak's release. and had both normal and the rare drop one when LDON came out, wasn't much better but is fun to have.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Valius Orenglave Blackburrow Server.</DIV> <DIV>Kamail Orenglave Lanys. (retired)</DIV>

[prisoner]

<DIV>I hate to salt the wound here,  but something is not right.  I've come to terms (for now) that other melee classes will use the ghoulbane.  Ok fine.  But when I see a WARDEN using it,  a priest class,  it makes my insides writhe around just a little bit.  Seriously Sony,  what the firetruck?  I cant use axes or spears for some silly reason,  nor a bow(but I get a cheap horse har har:smileyindifferent: ),  but a priest can use ghoulbane.  Why bother with lore or skills at all in this game.  Let everyone use everything.  Why not?  Sorry,  I'm fighting a losing battle here I admit,  but this is amazingly rediculous.  </DIV>

[bmcd]

<DIV>this is the type of attitude that makes others want to take your horses away.  This is a new game, the gods that gave paladins their power are dead, it is not the same sword that you and I aquired in eq1.  I must say though that I got a really nice monk weapon out tof the quest.:smileywink:</DIV>

[EvilIguana9]

Druids are supposed to be able to wield scimitars, not straight bladed weapons. It's really annoying EQ 2 doesn't make that distinction. FYI this is coming from a roleplaying perspective. I have no problem with making equivalent weapons available for other classes. I think my previous suggestion covered the options really well.

[RAYVEN2]

<DIV>Well SOE has already stated that the GB will be usable by all classes that can use swords.  I too am convinced that the only thing EQ2 takes from EQ is names and titles but I guess thats not all bad.  So this is a dead topic since those who make the rules have spoken.  EQ2 is to much fun for me to waste my time upset over this small aspect of the game.   </DIV>

[Batos]

<DIV>/sign /Agreed</DIV>

[HordesLo]

<DIV>              I remember saying something before about he GBbeing paladin only but I don`t remember if it was tis thread so I`ll throw my thoughts out again.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>              I am not 100% sure but in eq1 I could swear the GB was pala/sk only. I can`t remember for the life of me. Anyway Everyone is saying this is a different game from eq1 and to me it`s just about the same but we get additional stuff. It looks nicer then eq1 did but nontheless it is EQ. This game takes off from where the first stops. The cataclysm or whatever, brave new world, who will have the courage, yadda yadda. My point is so far we really don`t have class specific items. This loot table is as bad as the table lineage 2 was. Everyone can just about use everything almost. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>              ALL the good classes that can wear plate get hearth forged crap whether your a guardian or a cleric, go figure. That kind of bothers me that they didn`t put any effort into making class specific armor sets in that I have have seen. Maybe in the higher lvls and expansions they will but so far I haven`t seen any. Maybe others have?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>          Now on to my real reason for posting.the GB. I beleive that if your going to make a sequal for a game you gotta keep some things the same. And since EQ1 was a loot based game and this one is as well, Why would they want to make weapons for certain classes avalable to all? Makes no sense. Yeah yeah the gods are gone and all but the magic still remains and will be there the duration of the game no matter what anyone says. The GB should be pala/sk only period. Only the people who don`t follow the lore and legend of the game won`t care what class gets to use what. I mean cmon whats going to happen when they put the fiery defender or redemtion in the game as heritage or epic items? You know they will sooner or later. And those who will argue that can always remember i said one day they will make new epics and they did. Will a druid or a beserker to be able to run around using a sword that in all eq lore was meant to be only used by paladins? Whats the point in being a paladin if you get no items that define as a class? Yeah we get a horse so people can see from far away your a paladin and you can run a little faster, big deal. I had my holy steed at lvl 60 too but the items that were pala/sk only were the things i wanted most.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>               So as it is right now and prolly through my whole life playing this game this is my plan and its simple. Grind, get exp, make gold, Buy next armor upgrade of broker, Grind, get exp ,get gold, Buy next weapon upgrade off broker.  Rinse and repeat. Give me something I want to quest for! give me something that only players of my class can have that makes us stand apart from the others. Make classonly items, bring the epics back, give us AA points with skills only a paladin can have. I swear to god If i saw a beseker with the slay undead skill I would have a heart attck! This IS everquest is it not? They coulda named the game something else if it wasn`t gonna follow the rules that mattered most in the previous game that made it what it was.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>                  </DIV>

[HordesLo]

<DIV>              I remember saying something before about he GBbeing paladin only but I don`t remember if it was tis thread so I`ll throw my thoughts out again.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>              I am not 100% sure but in eq1 I could swear the GB was pala/sk only. I can`t remember for the life of me. Anyway Everyone is saying this is a different game from eq1 and to me it`s just about the same but we get additional stuff. It looks nicer then eq1 did but nontheless it is EQ. This game takes off from where the first stops. The cataclysm or whatever, brave new world, who will have the courage, yadda yadda. My point is so far we really don`t have class specific items. This loot table is as bad as the table lineage 2 was. Everyone can just about use everything almost. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>              ALL the good classes that can wear plate get hearth forged crap whether your a guardian or a cleric, go figure. That kind of bothers me that they didn`t put any effort into making class specific armor sets in that I have have seen. Maybe in the higher lvls and expansions they will but so far I haven`t seen any. Maybe others have?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>          Now on to my real reason for posting.the GB. I beleive that if your going to make a sequal for a game you gotta keep some things the same. And since EQ1 was a loot based game and this one is as well, Why would they want to make weapons for certain classes avalable to all? Makes no sense. Yeah yeah the gods are gone and all but the magic still remains and will be there the duration of the game no matter what anyone says. The GB should be pala/sk only period. Only the people who don`t follow the lore and legend of the game won`t care what class gets to use what. I mean cmon whats going to happen when they put the fiery defender or redemtion in the game as heritage or epic items? You know they will sooner or later. And those who will argue that can always remember i said one day they will make new epics and they did. Will a druid or a beserker to be able to run around using a sword that in all eq lore was meant to be only used by paladins? Whats the point in being a paladin if you get no items that define as a class? Yeah we get a horse so people can see from far away your a paladin and you can run a little faster, big deal. I had my holy steed at lvl 60 too but the items that were pala/sk only were the things i wanted most.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>               So as it is right now and prolly through my whole life playing this game this is my plan and its simple. Grind, get exp, make gold, Buy next armor upgrade of broker, Grind, get exp ,get gold, Buy next weapon upgrade off broker.  Rinse and repeat. Give me something I want to quest for! give me something that only players of my class can have that makes us stand apart from the others. Make classonly items, bring the epics back, give us AA points with skills only a paladin can have. I swear to god If i saw a beseker with the slay undead skill I would have a heart attck! This IS everquest is it not? They coulda named the game something else if it wasn`t gonna follow the rules that mattered most in the previous game that made it what it was.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>                  </DIV>

[Joxer]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Culann Heartstone wrote:<BR><BR> <DIV>Good try, but totally facetious logic.  SKs are not 'holy' knights.  They are 'unholy' knights instead.  For everything that the Paladin stands for, the SKs stand for the opposite.  The Ghoulbane was explicitly a 'holy' sword in EQ1, wieldable only by Paladins.  Therefore by logical continuatiobn of logic, the Paladins should be the only class that can wield the selfsame sword in EQ2.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Good try on the semantics, and all the lil stuff you threw in like the definition, but the core logic is about as stable as a glass house under a boulder avalanche, I.E. terrible.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Actually the Ghoulbane was usable by "Knights" this is both an SK and a Paladin.</P> <P>Nice try there but no Cigar.</P> <P> </P> <P>As for the holy thing you say : would someone who is a worshipper of something evil call it unholy?</P> <P>Dont think so, every single religion, how wrong it may be... calls itself holy, thus Shadowknights are considered "Holy Knights" by the worshippers of their faction.</P> <P>Yet again nice try no cigar.<BR></P>

[Dagrean]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> JoxerNL wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Culann Heartstone wrote:<BR><BR> <DIV>Good try, but totally facetious logic.  SKs are not 'holy' knights.  They are 'unholy' knights instead.  For everything that the Paladin stands for, the SKs stand for the opposite.  The Ghoulbane was explicitly a 'holy' sword in EQ1, wieldable only by Paladins.  Therefore by logical continuatiobn of logic, the Paladins should be the only class that can wield the selfsame sword in EQ2.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Good try on the semantics, and all the lil stuff you threw in like the definition, but the core logic is about as stable as a glass house under a boulder avalanche, I.E. terrible.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Actually the Ghoulbane was usable by "Knights" this is both an SK and a Paladin.<BR> <HR> </P></BLOCKQUOTE><IMG src="http://everquest.allakhazam.com/equipment/fpics/ghoulbane.jpg"><BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>looks like it can be used by a SK to me... really...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>To fashion the corrupted Ghoulbane is a part of the longer involved quest for the SK epic - Innoruuks Curse. You need 2 other swords (one drops from fear and one from sky) And a scabbard to get it - It's a pain in the [Removed for Content]. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Aholy sword is more than a "magic sword" folks. It's an embodiment of the paladins ideals and faith - Its a coduit through wich the paladin brings his faith to bare, to smite the evil that has been perpatrated against everything he believs in, and a tool to bring the cause he fights for to fruition. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>THere certainly are class restricted Items in this game - look at a monk's armor from the level 20 AQ quests. the Chain link armor uses the "brawling" skill, and since the quest is only available to Qeynosians, guess what is the only class that can use it? Shiny brass halberd is another example. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The ghoulbane is a Holy sword, one Embodied by blessings and divine power, not through the enchanting of mages. it says so in the quest itself. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Note that powerful weapons typiclly have alignments themselves - whether good or bad in lore. Excalibur could only be drawn forth from the stone by someone who was worthy to rule england in a noble manner, and of royal blood. Weapons in D&D tend to do damage to opposed alignments trying to wield them. Weapons in Palladium's games (rifts, etc) Will do damage and even be unable to touch such weapons that are of opposing alignments. It is not inconcievable that a weapon made to serve a paladin ( and that is what the Shin lord was, believe it or not, a paladin of Mithaniel Marr) Would refuse to be wielded by the people who are more about controlling the damned then destroying them. Wouldn't that be contrary to it's purpose? </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Sure it's SoE's game to do with what they wish, but It's ours as well. We tell the stories, we write our characters lives into it, and we have the right to say to the developers " this dioesn't really make sense." </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Yah know what? This really doesn't make sense. </DIV>

[Joxer]

<DIV>Mmmm did they change the Ghoulbane then?</DIV> <DIV>Im pretty sure it was not NODROP and useable by SK`s aswell...</DIV>

[prisoner]

<DIV>No it hasn't been changed.  Before I re-mained to a necromancer,  I got a paladin to 56,  got the ghoulbane at 25 with some help of a friend.  Always been paladin only, at least for the 3 years I played.  However it used to be tradable.</DIV>

[rikari]

<DIV>ok heres my feeling on it maybe gb just got sick of bein wielded by palis also they didnt really bring any wepons of anyother classes from the old eq to the new one all ive seen is gb and soulreaver which from wat i last checked were both pali wepons and they probly just wanted everyone to have a chance to use gb and thats all i really want to say about that</DIV>

[Brigh]

<DIV>I agree that it should be class-only.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I think it is odd that we lost the ability to use lances, axes, etc in the last 500 years.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Be sure to /feedback this.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I miss the class-only weapons that EQ1 had.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Sah'Tzik]

<blockquote><hr>ThirdWizard wrote:<blockquote><hr>asteldian wrote:<DIV>Ghoulbane is a holy weapon, but a paladin is not a holy knight anymore.</DIV><hr></blockquote><blockquote><hr>SoE wrote:<DIV>Paladins are crusaders for all things good and right. Wearing heavy armor, these valiant defenders of truth fight for nobility, honor, and virtue.</DIV><hr></blockquote>Seems to be quite the holy knight to me. Fighting for honor with heavy armor on horseback while casting spells of healing and protection... hmm... could that sound like a holy knight? Spare me the whining that traditional evil races can now repent in their evil ways and take up the good fight. Next thing you're going to say is that a High Elf or Dwarven Shadowknight isn't evil. I don't buy it.<hr></blockquote>Holy: Belonging to, derived from, or associated with a divine power; sacred.The SOE description of the Paladin class and the definition of Holy do not match sir. According to lore, the "gods of influence" started removing their power over 500 years ago. The people of Norrath started finding their own inner strength and now use that strength to perform feats similar to magic. All classes have the ability to perform divine damage because they possess the willpower to do so. Since anyone can derive devine power from themselves, they match the definition of holy, and therefore would meet the qualifications of the "holy sword." However... if you remember in EQ1, the Ghoulbane was wielded by a Froglok Paladin, which many players(including other Paladins) KILLED to get the sword. Technically if any restrictions were to be put in place due to lore, it should be made Froglok Paladins that worship Mithaniel Marr Only.

[prisoner]

<DIV>Let this thread die <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  It doesn't even matter any more.  Lore means nothing in this game,  its just a story line that everyone can participate in.  Thats fine with me,  I just hope they stick with it all the way.  As long as I can participate in something that another class might classify as "theirs" I got no problem.  </DIV>