Beating what is surely a dead horse.

[Jahraviel]

Wife wants to play EQ2 with me, but I keep outleveling her. So I'm making a tank I'm not going to play at all unless she's with me. She made a healer with the same intent. Here's the thing, I have a 20 Berserker in full carbonite vanguard and he isnt a great tank. I don't really want to play a Guardian, but a Paladin sounds interesting. So what I'd like to know from all of you, can you or can you not tank? I've been playing over on the evil side for the large part of my time. 28 Defiler and the 20 Ogre Berserker. You guys are opposite SKs and I dont care what anyone says it sucks trying to keep an SK MT on his feet. Surely Paladins are better, when I think Paladin I think badass. Do I need to go Guardian to tank for my ol' lady or not? I know it's been asked but breezing through your forum here I mostly see talk about holding agro or not. I want to know about how you take damage. Especially any 25+. Thanks for any answers fellas.

[Reev]

<DIV>Lots of posts on this board already about the advantages of Pally as a MT, I just wanted to comment about outlvling.  You know you can turn off your experience, you can still play and not get xp if you still want your main, but you're waitin for someone to catch up.  The option is right click on the xp bar.</DIV>

[N7649U]

SK here spying on your paladin boards and i just want to say your nuts if you think a SK cant MT. Stop having bias and look at facts.

[Vai]

<DIV>Every fighter has taunt, so every fighter can tank.  I'm not sure what the dilemma is here?</DIV><p>Message Edited by Vaiyo on <span class=date_text>12-11-2004</span> <span class=time_text>03:22 PM</span>

[Jahraviel]

Reevah Yes I know I can turn off the experience, there would be no point in playing. There is going to be a million more posts about this same subject, I just wanted a quick answer and maybe a little discussion. It is a forum after all. Thanks though. N7649U To be biased, I would have to have some prejudice against or some personal interest or gain in saying SKs arent good tanks. Since I dont have an SK and dont care about SKs it isnt a bias. What you see, is someone that plays a healer class saying your class blows at tanking, dont take it too personally you're just way too hard on a power bar. Stop trolling. Vaiyo There really isnt a dilemma. The question and the reasoning behind it is pretty straight forward. I'd rather have a paladin then a guardian, but since it's my last slot I'd like to know ahead of time if the paladin is more of a secondary tank then MT and going to get slaughtered repeatedly. I came here to discuss it with people that play the class. Oviously, since this game has been out for such a long time I should already know the answer to this. I should have dug through the plethora of posts from a week ago by level 21 paladins and their extensive knowledge of the class. For some reason I figured now that people are getting into the higher levels that maybe there would be a better answer to this question concerning the high end. You have my deepest apologies for reposting such an out of line question. Feel free to repost any questions on the Defiler boards, where if I have an answer, I'll actually give you one.

[JarredDarque]

<DIV>Paladins are designed by nature to be a kick @ss secondary tank, but I rarely ever do ST,  most the time I am the MT,  and properly equipped have more AC and resist than guardians my lvl.  And this iwll probably continue up until the higher 30s from what I am seeing.  the amin thing about being ablet o tank isnt really your AC,  it is more your defense/block/parry stats and your resist, as magic goes around your AC and will cause the healer the most power to fix.  We also get heals, which work good for keeping myself in the fight,  especially when I dont have to worry about doing power moves for DPS.  We can also ward ourselves.  the problem you will run into is that if it is going to be mostly you two duoing,  you will not have ANY DPS.  Fights will take a long [Removed for Content] time.  Where as beserkers and monks can do alot more DPS, even a guardian can out DPS us for some odd reason, and I have the best of the best weapons for my lvl.  They also get duel wield and ranged weapons, we don't.  However, pally is probably one of the best solo classes when it comes to group mobs.  If the two of you only plan on fighting one mob at a t time, I might actually suggest monk or a scout DPS class, both seem to be real good at avoiding attacks.  If you plan on taking on more than one target at a time, i.e. grouped mobs, I would suggest either pally or guardian, but with the pally you can heal yourself in a pinch</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now, if your plannin on most of your hunting being with a 3 or more group with at least on DPS, I would suggest pally.  If your groups consist of 2 or more healers though all the time, I might give up my ability to heal for the ability to do more DPS.  However, my heals have saved my butt plenty of times.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>the choice is up to you, this is the facts from my view,  ask me again in a few weeks...I am building up a well-equipped guardian as we speak using my pallies resources.  I plan on comparing the two to how well each can hold aggro, to how well they tank ina group and how well they solo.  </DIV>

[Ghu]

<DIV>Good post JarredDarque. Nicely thought out <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm a 23 paladin now. So can't answer your 25+ questions but I can tell you that we do fine at tanking in general.</DIV>

[BoomJa]

<blockquote><hr>Jahraviel wrote:Wife wants to play EQ2 with me, but I keep outleveling her. So I'm making a tank I'm not going to play at all unless she's with me. She made a healer with the same intent. Here's the thing, I have a 20 Berserker in full carbonite vanguard and he isnt a great tank. I don't really want to play a Guardian, but a Paladin sounds interesting. So what I'd like to know from all of you, can you or can you not tank? I've been playing over on the evil side for the large part of my time. 28 Defiler and the 20 Ogre Berserker. You guys are opposite SKs and I dont care what anyone says it sucks trying to keep an SK MT on his feet. Surely Paladins are better, when I think Paladin I think badass. Do I need to go Guardian to tank for my ol' lady or not? I know it's been asked but breezing through your forum here I mostly see talk about holding agro or not. I want to know about how you take damage. Especially any 25+. Thanks for any answers fellas.<hr></blockquote>I am level 26 and it is rare that I am not the MT in a group. On paper a Guardian MT with a Paladin MA should be the best setup, but I find Guardians stepping out to MA as they can dish more damage than I can, yet I can stand in there at MT just as well as them. Paladins and Guardians just tank differently. The wards and self heals help to keep a Paladin alive longer, but the Guardian has better HP and AC. So far, it seems to be a toss up on which is better. Monks and Berserkers always move to MA and it makes sense. They can dish out far more damage than me.

[Gilasil]

<DIV>It's always been my understanding that pallies can tank fine, and I'm often MT.  However, I've been asking myself about my tanking abilities with respect to guardians since a less then happy trip into Stormhold last night.  While we eventually got everyone through their armor quests, managed to do several other quests, and managed to get very deep into Stormhold, my level 21 pally died a LOT.  I was the MT and only tank.  We fought a lot of yellow^^ or multiple yellow^ mobs and the cleric had to do nonstop heals just to keep me alive.  No time for HOs no time for anything but back to back heals.  I had NO trouble maintaining aggro, but I had a lot of trouble living through it.   The night before I was in a different group with a level 21 guardian serving as MT and things went far smoother.  However, there were different people in those two groups so it's hard to make too many comparisons -- I'm pretty sure that first group was doing far better DPS for example.  Before my equipment started degrading my AC was 1099 and I was using a carbonite longshord and ashwood kite shield (luckily we called a break partway through for mending).  By the way, that little ward of ours didn't do me a lot of good -- it was typically blown away as fast as I cast it.  I still cast it figuring it helped (at that point I HAD aggro, I just had to stay alive), but it sure didn't save me many times.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So I don't know if my equipment was just worse then I thought (mixture of carbonite plate and my old chain, not full plate since I WAS doing armor quests) or if our group was underpowered (almost everyone there was level 21 except for an 18 scout), or pallies aren't such great tanks after all, but my experience last night did not give me a warm feeling about my abilities as a MT in a tough environment.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm hoping that now that I'm 22 and have my own heal things might be a bit smoother.  At least now I have something I can do if LH is down and my hit points are dropping like a stone.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>That said, I do want to emphasize that pallies definately tank fine in less strenuous situations.   I've had many successful MT exp.</DIV>

[Jahraviel]

Jared, Jack, thanks for taking the time to post your experiences with the class. Good answers, both of you. Add one dwarf paladin to the ranks then. We duo sometimes, but usually with a healer and tank it's easy to pick up a dps or two and she keeps the over ambitious ones on a leash while I pull, but it's harder to pick up a couple people if you pick a class people dont general consider to be good tanks. The two characters I have high enough to group with a Paladin are both Freeport aligned and there aint many Pallys running around the area. Thanks again for the help. Edit: You posted same time I did Gil but I was thinking was there a Defiler or Mystic in the group where the MT was a guardian? I'm not up to speed on the Mystic line other then that they are more group buff oriented but I do know that a Defiler in your group with another healer is a winning combination. If the guardian had someone warding him while another topped off his health between wards he could tank for days and seem invincible. If that were the case wouldn't have anything to do with your class or your gear but like you said, the difference in group members. Still something for me to think about, I'll check back to see what you say.<p>Message Edited by Jahraviel on <span class=date_text>12-12-2004</span> <span class=time_text>04:28 PM</span>

[razormanspor]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Jahraviel wrote:<BR>Wife wants to play EQ2 with me, but I keep outleveling her. So I'm making a tank I'm not going to play at all unless she's with me. She made a healer with the same intent.<BR><BR><BR>Here's the thing, I have a 20 Berserker in full carbonite vanguard and he isnt a great tank. I don't really want to play a Guardian, but a Paladin sounds interesting. So what I'd like to know from all of you, can you or can you not tank? I've been playing over on the evil side for the large part of my time. 28 Defiler and the 20 Ogre Berserker. You guys are opposite SKs and I dont care what anyone says it sucks trying to keep an SK MT on his feet. Surely Paladins are better, when I think Paladin I think badass. Do I need to go Guardian to tank for my ol' lady or not?<BR><BR><BR>I know it's been asked but breezing through your forum here I mostly see talk about holding agro or not. I want to know about how you take damage.<IMG src="null"><BR><BR>Especially any 25+. Thanks for any answers fellas.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Jahraviel wrote:<BR>Wife wants to play EQ2 with me, but I keep outleveling her. So I'm making a tank I'm not going to play at all unless she's with me. She made a healer with the same intent.<BR><BR><BR>Here's the thing, I have a 20 Berserker in full carbonite vanguard and he isnt a great tank. I don't really want to play a Guardian, but a Paladin sounds interesting. So what I'd like to know from all of you, can you or can you not tank? I've been playing over on the evil side for the large part of my time. 28 Defiler and the 20 Ogre Berserker. You guys are opposite SKs and I dont care what anyone says it sucks trying to keep an SK MT on his feet. Surely Paladins are better, when I think Paladin I think badass. Do I need to go Guardian to tank for my ol' lady or not?<BR><BR><BR>I know it's been asked but breezing through your forum here I mostly see talk about holding agro or not. I want to know about how you take damage.<BR><BR>Especially any 25+. Thanks for any answers fellas.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Jahraviel wrote:<BR>Wife wants to play EQ2 with me, but I keep outleveling her. So I'm making a tank I'm not going to play at all unless she's with me. She made a healer with the same intent.<BR><BR><BR>Here's the thing, I have a 20 Berserker in full carbonite vanguard and he isnt a great tank. I don't really want to play a Guardian, but a Paladin sounds interesting. So what I'd like to know from all of you, can you or can you not tank? I've been playing over on the evil side for the large part of my time. 28 Defiler and the 20 Ogre Berserker. You guys are opposite SKs and I dont care what anyone says it sucks trying to keep an SK MT on his feet. Surely Paladins are better, when I think Paladin I think badass. Do I need to go Guardian to tank for my ol' lady or not?<BR><BR><BR>I know it's been asked but breezing through your forum here I mostly see talk about holding agro or not. I want to know about how you take damage.<BR><BR>Especially any 25+. Thanks for any answers fellas.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Level 22 pally now. I would say Pally's make very good tanks (of course depends on player workin it). However, Guardians are the best tank. Love being in a group with one, cause I can deal damage and assist in healing the tank if needed or pull aggro if Guardian is about to fall. Do not play a monk as a tank. He dodges well, but armor is not Heavy. Therefore, your healer is constantly oop. Anyways everyone gave good advice. I just wanted you to know that I love Pally as tank or second tank. We are quite versitle. You can do no wrong with Pally.:smileywink:<BR>

[PlumpPython]

<DIV>Well, I play a SK but its the same thing. The only problem SK/Pal have tanking is that the elitists think that there HAS to be one class that does something better than the others. I have no problems whatsoever holding aggro against anything except owlbears and various other mobs that are bugged. I also think that horse jealousy plays a part in this idiocy.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Crusaders are the best MT if you ask me. Easy pulling, easy aggro control. and self ward + taunt shield slam make tanking simple. Don't let the jealous guardian players tell you otherwise.</DIV>

[Xentin]

<DIV>I am a lvl 28 paladin. As far as I can see I am the MT in most cases, lately tho my guild has been a lil overrun by guardians and zerkers, its not that they can out taunt or anything just they usually have the lvl advantage on me. Paladins and SKs are great tanks and the wards/heals make up for the less taunts/dmg. Only thing i wish we got was fricken great spears for when im not tank(shiny brass halberd mmm)</DIV>

[Gilasil]

<blockquote><hr>Jahraviel wrote:Jared, Jack, thanks for taking the time to post your experiences with the class. Good answers, both of you. Add one dwarf paladin to the ranks then. We duo sometimes, but usually with a healer and tank it's easy to pick up a dps or two and she keeps the over ambitious ones on a leash while I pull, but it's harder to pick up a couple people if you pick a class people dont general consider to be good tanks. The two characters I have high enough to group with a Paladin are both Freeport aligned and there aint many Pallys running around the area. Thanks again for the help. Edit: You posted same time I did Gil but I was thinking was there a Defiler or Mystic in the group where the MT was a guardian? I'm not up to speed on the Mystic line other then that they are more group buff oriented but I do know that a Defiler in your group with another healer is a winning combination. If the guardian had someone warding him while another topped off his health between wards he could tank for days and seem invincible. If that were the case wouldn't have anything to do with your class or your gear but like you said, the difference in group members. Still something for me to think about, I'll check back to see what you say.<p>Message Edited by Jahraviel on <span class=date_text>12-12-2004</span> <span class=time_text>04:28 PM</span><hr></blockquote>Could well be. It's been awhile and I can't remember. I haven't had occasion to go back into SH again since I posted that. Like every other game there could be combinations which are FAR more effective then other combinations.

[Viglundr]

<DIV>26 Paladin here, I tank all the time. I have no problems. I also duo alot with my wife which happends to be a monk. So while we are out "soloing" her and me, I do the tanking while she does all the damage, works great.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As a Paladin i focous purley on defense. Forget offense, I can't do much damage if I wanted to.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In groups.. no problems there. I'm tanking along just fine.. Sometimes the Cleric or whoever falls asleep at the desk and I can keep my self going just fine with wards and that pentinent heal of ours (lvl 26).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>When I am secondary tank I usally waste more power trying to help the Guardian/Monk/Bersker/Shadow Knights etc blah, then if I was tanking myself... but keep in mind, being a Tank is all about the gear.. I usually have much better gear the my fellow tank-classes at the same or higher levels <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I love the Paladin class thou.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[JarredDarque]

<DIV>Ok,  slight update on tanking, now I dont know, maybe I am doing something wrong.  But in certain groups I have problems holding aggro.  Typically, when the MA is a monk or beserker.   They pull aggro off me so fast and hold it so strong I can NEVER manage to get it back.  I typically dont mind as I can do more DPS then,  they can DPS, and I can 'offering of armament'  to make up for their lack of shield.  But keepin them from getting aggro is impossible last, night, I said to hell with it and told the lvl 24 beserker he was the new MT,  even though at lvl 23 at the time I had 100 more AC.  I just offering on him, gave him 1400 AC and we had one kick but knight,  60% xp in about 3 hours,  I amde a lvl,  did all of AQ6 and a 23-25 group we killed a few lvl 29^^ skellies.  But the fact that I could not keep aggro disturbed me.   It happens alot  but only with those two classes, the rest I can get aggro back first or second try.   I would use all my taunts, stun, ward them, heal, nothing would get aggro back</DIV>

[ReynardTheFox]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Jahraviel wrote:<BR>Wife wants to play EQ2 with me, but I keep outleveling her. So I'm making a tank I'm not going to play at all unless she's with me. She made a healer with the same intent.<BR><BR><BR>Here's the thing, I have a 20 Berserker in full carbonite vanguard and he isnt a great tank. I don't really want to play a Guardian, but a Paladin sounds interesting. So what I'd like to know from all of you, can you or can you not tank? I've been playing over on the evil side for the large part of my time. 28 Defiler and the 20 Ogre Berserker. You guys are opposite SKs and I dont care what anyone says it sucks trying to keep an SK MT on his feet. Surely Paladins are better, when I think Paladin I think badass. Do I need to go Guardian to tank for my ol' lady or not?<BR><BR><BR>I know it's been asked but breezing through your forum here I mostly see talk about holding agro or not. I want to know about how you take damage.<BR><BR>Especially any 25+. Thanks for any answers fellas.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>Some would argue that Berserkers are the best tanks of all due to their ability to maintain aggro.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Rey.</DIV><p>Message Edited by ReynardTheFox on <span class=date_text>12-17-2004</span> <span class=time_text>10:56 AM</span>

[Lawman]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gilasil wrote:<BR> <DIV>It's always been my understanding that pallies can tank fine, and I'm often MT.  However, I've been asking myself about my tanking abilities with respect to guardians since a less then happy trip into Stormhold last night.  While we eventually got everyone through their armor quests, managed to do several other quests, and managed to get very deep into Stormhold, my level 21 pally died a LOT.  I was the MT and only tank.  We fought a lot of yellow^^ or multiple yellow^ mobs and the cleric had to do nonstop heals just to keep me alive.  No time for HOs no time for anything but back to back heals.  I had NO trouble maintaining aggro, but I had a lot of trouble living through it.   The night before I was in a different group with a level 21 guardian serving as MT and things went far smoother.  However, there were different people in those two groups so it's hard to make too many comparisons -- I'm pretty sure that first group was doing far better DPS for example.  Before my equipment started degrading my AC was 1099 and I was using a carbonite longshord and ashwood kite shield (luckily we called a break partway through for mending).  By the way, that little ward of ours didn't do me a lot of good -- it was typically blown away as fast as I cast it.  I still cast it figuring it helped (at that point I HAD aggro, I just had to stay alive), but it sure didn't save me many times.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So I don't know if my equipment was just worse then I thought (mixture of carbonite plate and my old chain, not full plate since I WAS doing armor quests) or if our group was underpowered (almost everyone there was level 21 except for an 18 scout), or pallies aren't such great tanks after all, but my experience last night did not give me a warm feeling about my abilities as a MT in a tough environment.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm hoping that now that I'm 22 and have my own heal things might be a bit smoother.  At least now I have something I can do if LH is down and my hit points are dropping like a stone.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>That said, I do want to emphasize that pallies definately tank fine in less strenuous situations.   I've had many successful MT exp.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P> </P> <P>Im 29 PAL.  Green to me is 25-26  Blue is 27-28 White is 29 Yellow is 30-31 Orange is 32 Red is 33+.</P> <P>Plug your numbers in there</P> <P>21 - green is 17-18 blue 19-20 white 21 yellow 22-23 orange 24 red 25+<BR>Having lived in SH for so long, Id say you were tanking Yellow-2up Crusaders and Cavaliers that were yellow in groups of 4, or singles orange 2-ups.</P> <P>I think your main problem is the fact that youre tanking Yellow or better that are 2-Ups.  (23^^ for example)</P> <P>We can Tank... theres no doubt about that.  You want to go tanking heavier (yellow, orange, red) 2-Up mobs, 1 of 2 things needs to happen.</P> <P>1) Your AC needs to be high as heII, and have a great group make-up (2 Melee, 2 DPS, 2 Healers)</P> <P>2) Let a guardian tank</P> <P>Youre tanking way over your head at 21 in SH's basement area..   If you had a cleric and a mystic both, you probably would have been fine, barring theyre good at what they do, and had a well-rounded group.</P> <P>Now, before anyone gets their panties in a twist about anything Ive said, sit back and relax... this is my opinion at 29th level. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>I can solo 25^^, 34, and 36-2down.  Sad, yes, that I can only solo Green 2-Ups, I know.  </P> <P>Tanking, Im ok to 34^^ with the right group.  Ill tank 32^^ no problem with a mediocre group.</P> <P>Just keep in mind that as you get higher in level, the range becomes wider, mostly because the people in the group are also better at what they do..</P> <P>*clink clink*  (my two copper)</P> <P> -Law</P> <P> </P>

[Lawman]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> JarredDarque wrote:<BR> <DIV>Ok,  slight update on tanking, now I dont know, maybe I am doing something wrong.  But in certain groups I have problems holding aggro.  Typically, when the MA is a monk or beserker.   They pull aggro off me so fast and hold it so strong I can NEVER manage to get it back.  I typically dont mind as I can do more DPS then,  they can DPS, and I can 'offering of armament'  to make up for their lack of shield.  But keepin them from getting aggro is impossible last, night, I said to hell with it and told the lvl 24 beserker he was the new MT,  even though at lvl 23 at the time I had 100 more AC.  I just offering on him, gave him 1400 AC and we had one kick but knight,  60% xp in about 3 hours,  I amde a lvl,  did all of AQ6 and a 23-25 group we killed a few lvl 29^^ skellies.  But the fact that I could not keep aggro disturbed me.   It happens alot  but only with those two classes, the rest I can get aggro back first or second try.   I would use all my taunts, stun, ward them, heal, nothing would get aggro back</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Getting it Back is WAY more difficult than keeping it.</P> <P>Establish it on the pull and during the first half a minute.</P> <P>Pull with Taunt or Nuke.  Taunt is better to pull with.  </P> <P>I Taunt, Nuke, Taunt, DShield, Nuke, Taunt... locks it up pretty good.</P> <P>I think the problem isnt with you, its with the others throwing the kitchen sink at a mob in the first 10 seconds.  Tell them to hold off... just Attack... no abbilities, spells, whatever... Until you (or whoever the MT is) says ok, cool... I got aggro locked up tight... have at it.</P> <P>I had a 31 Guardian today that I had trouble NOT taking aggro from him.  No taunts, nothing but melee, and DD spells... we were teetering on the edge of who had aggro... and that can be a good thing!  I like to know that 1 taunt and I have it.  </P> <P>You need to Establish Aggro, then tell the group to cut loose.</P> <P> -Law</P> <P><BR> </P>

[Jerik_EQ2]

<blockquote><hr>Lawman wrote:<BR><BLOCKQUOTE><HR>JarredDarque wrote:<BR><DIV>Ok, slight update on tanking, now I dont know, maybe I am doing something wrong. But in certain groups I have problems holding aggro. Typically, when the MA is a monk or beserker. They pull aggro off me so fast and hold it so strong I can NEVER manage to get it back. I typically dont mind as I can do more DPS then, they can DPS, and I can 'offering of armament' to make up for their lack of shield. But keepin them from getting aggro is impossible last, night, I said to hell with it and told the lvl 24 beserker he was the new MT, even though at lvl 23 at the time I had 100 more AC. I just offering on him, gave him 1400 AC and we had one kick but knight, 60% xp in about 3 hours, I amde a lvl, did all of AQ6 and a 23-25 group we killed a few lvl 29^^ skellies. But the fact that I could not keep aggro disturbed me. It happens alot but only with those two classes, the rest I can get aggro back first or second try. I would use all my taunts, stun, ward them, heal, nothing would get aggro back</DIV><BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Getting it Back is WAY more difficult than keeping it.</P><P>Establish it on the pull and during the first half a minute.</P><P>Pull with Taunt or Nuke. Taunt is better to pull with. </P><P>I Taunt, Nuke, Taunt, DShield, Nuke, Taunt... locks it up pretty good.</P><P>I think the problem isnt with you, its with the others throwing the kitchen sink at a mob in the first 10 seconds. Tell them to hold off... just Attack... no abbilities, spells, whatever... Until you (or whoever the MT is) says ok, cool... I got aggro locked up tight... have at it.</P><P>I had a 31 Guardian today that I had trouble NOT taking aggro from him. No taunts, nothing but melee, and DD spells... we were teetering on the edge of who had aggro... and that can be a good thing! I like to know that 1 taunt and I have it. </P><P>You need to Establish Aggro, then tell the group to cut loose.</P><P> -Law</P><P><BR> </P><hr></blockquote>I'll second this. If they are pulling aggro off of you in the beginning, then it is just as likely their fault as it is your's.

[mentalinma]

<DIV>Paladin can hold aggro just fine.  Only time I ever have a problem is with Fury as MainHealer and we are fighting 3+ mobs with no CC...that last mob sometimes finds the Fury just as we get to it.   It has not happened now that I hit 23 and got another AE taunt though.   Key is to spend every silver you have on adept level taunts and the best armor you can afford.  I have about 1350 AC and 300-500 on all my resists and those help tremendously.   If you get the Berik, Sword of Thunder, that will help your dps quite a bit...nearly doubled from using the tortured bone scimitar.</DIV>

[JarredDarque]

<DIV>Dont worry,  well equipped     I have barik sword of thunder,  got it at lvl 22,  I ahve a two hander that makes the steel maul look like a baby...well  not really,  but the maul is capped at 24,  my 2 handers sword is at same stats but goes up till 28   All my AQs are done,  currently wearing a vang helm from merchant, and an ashwood kite shield.   I am curently in SH camping hess to get that ancient kite hsield and I need to kill 10 octopi in the steppes to get a quest helmut taht is uber <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  those two should have me at AT LEAST 1500 AC at lvl 25,  even without havin pristine gold jewelry</DIV>

[mentalinma]

<DIV>Look for a Stormshield as well - can be used 1 full level sooner than AKS but has exact same stats (only get them one level sooner).   Quested jewelry is better than player made for same level, bone and shard quests for those.</DIV>

[JarredDarque]

<DIV>well  I ahve about 5 bone shard quest started,  but am about 3 pieces form getting the first one done....where do I get this other shield?  if it is something I can ques tI would greatly appreciate it...those are much easier htan campin a mob for days to get on [Removed for Content] drop.</DIV>

[Auron_ff10]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Jahraviel wrote:<BR>Reevah<BR><BR>N7649U<BR><BR>To be biased, I would have to have some prejudice against or some personal interest or gain in saying SKs arent good tanks. Since I dont have an SK and dont care about SKs it isnt a bias. What you see, is someone that plays a healer class saying your class blows at tanking, dont take it too personally you're just way too hard on a power bar. Stop trolling.<BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>i just wanted to defend my fellow shadowknights as did N7649U</P> <P>U are biased Jahraviel for u dont care about SKs. If you dont care about them then you will look for and give a reason to disregard them, this reason is completely your own opinion and so u are, therefore, biased. SKs can tank fine AND my healers never have any difficulties keeping me alive. Youve clearly just had some very bad players grouped with you. </P> <P>All of this goes back to the main thing that makes classes good- it's the players behind them not the classes themselves...<BR></P>

[ProteusTielaxi]

Not sure what the problem is. Any fighter class makes a fine main tank. I have no problems at all in Nek, EL, etc, even with a Bruiser as MT, and Paladin's rock.I think tanking comes down to two simple things.1) You need a good healer. For most encounters, even a druid will do...2) you need a good enchanter. You're not actually getting beat on by more than 1 mob at a time, are you? Duh...The enchanter is absolutely critical for a smooth group. Between stiffles, interrupts and general crowd control, a good chanter will make sure you get hit far less.If you don't have a chanter, better get two healers. And, they'll be very, very busy.