paladin opinions?

[daaarkfi]

<DIV> <DIV>As of now im a level 25 paladin. Up until  now i've only had trouble getting into a group once, but as my comp has been broken down for a few days, i've been reading the forums alot. I've also bought the Prima EQ 2 Guide and read it a little, which i was kind of disappointed with. In the guide the first things that kind of got me thinking, was when i was reading over the fighter classes. Every class had a paragraph that pointed out good things, and bad things. However paladin was the only fighter that i noticed had "why NOT to be a paladin". SK didnt have one, nor gaurdian, nor warrior. Which I guess kind of prompted me to read on these forums a little. Now i've seen some post on here which says "Paladins not considered as tanks?" and refers to them as an offtank, buffing and making the MT (Gaurdian) shine. The total reason i picked this class was because they said all fighters would be able to tank equally, so I would be able to shine, not make another tank shine. I love buffs, and heals, but more so, big shiny armor and being able to tank. Im worried about long term though, if at after 30 there will be no need for paladins. I guess what im saying, is I was lookin to be a big bad MT but a noble knight with buffs and heals at the same time, and i guess, as in every other mmorpg, it just wasnt possible. A lot of people said things in that post like, why have a paladin in the group if you could switch it out for another DPS? Which unfortunately makes since.. <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  I do low dps, I have almost equal hp/ac to a gaurdian, but not quite as much, my heal goes for about 200, where most mobs a group would take for good exp hit me for that much per hit anyway, our ward is nice but nothing compared to a shaman or other healer. So where exactly do we fit in? Our buffs arent as good as a healer class, our heals arent as good as a healer class, we dont do anywhere near the damage of a mage, and we dont get tower shields or seem to tank as well as a gaurdian. 25 seems to be a long time played and I really really dont want to start over but if im not going to be welcomed into groups at 40 .. well thats a lot farther backwards than 25. Seems to me a group with a gaurdian, 2 healers, and 3 DPS would be most efficient. Is this just the average complaint of all mmorpgs, where everyone can find fault with their class? or are paladins really not very needed? opinions are welcome, as of now it seems i may be rerolling soon, not because i dont like being a paladin, something has always drawn me to them, but because i dont want to be a supporting tank, that doesnt really tank. I was thinking more of a gaurdian with small heals to reduce downtime. Some of the higher level guys here give me your opinions, in the end, are we a tank? or a supportive tank and i should rerolll to be a gaurdian?</DIV></DIV>

[Vai]

<DIV>You can use your wards, heals, etc on yourself too, which in effect would make you as good of a tanker, if not better, than a guardian who must rely 100% on outside healing/warding.  It doesn't matter if your heals & wards are not as good as priests' heals & wards ... they're not supposed to be.  I'm sure you'd last a lot longer against a mob than they will!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>There are numerous reasons to pick a paladin as a main tank, as there are as many reasons not to.  If you go look at the shadowknight forum, I see them saying that nobody wants them, either.  I haven't looked at the guardian forums yet, but maybe they're having the same issues as well where they're overly focused on their downsides, rather than their strong points - it happens with every class, pretty much.  Thinking back in EQ, warriors are the ultimate raid tankers, but they whined about not being picked for groups ... then there are the paladins and SKs who tank well all around, probably a tad better in groups, yet they whine about not being able to tank in raids.  Then there are DPS issues, everyone wants more, more more.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I think overall, the classes in EQ so far have been 99.5% balanced and I can't appreciate that enough.  I think perhaps instead of thinking your heals are inferior to everyone else, think about how it complements your strong points ... and you'll see that you tank well, plus you can heal & ward yourself to tank as well as the guardian, or otherwise help the main tank tank twice as good.  Some may not appreciate that fact, but as a whole, I don't find paladins to be weaker than guardians at all ... it all comes down to how you'd like to play.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Hope that helps.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[AslaanH]

<DIV>I agree they have done wonders with class balance, any other MMO has been far worse off the bat with class balance. Where they did slip up is in the way they presented each class, they should have been more clear about it so people could have made more informed choices. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Classes are balanced!! It is people being misinformed and now wanting to be something else who keep complaining. </DIV>

[Vai]

<DIV>Here are some threads in other classes' forums talking about how their own sub-classes suck.  While not every thread 'takes a dive off of a bridge' in terms of their respective sub-classes', most I found sitting right at (or near) the top of the first page of their respective forums, and some even make outrageous suggestions as to how to make their respective sub-classes to be the best at everything.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Check them out for some slapstick irony in the making:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Monks - </DIV> <DIV><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=9&message.id=508" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=9&message.id=508</A></DIV> <DIV><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=6&message.id=644" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=6&message.id=644</A></DIV> <DIV>Bruisers - </DIV> <DIV><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=7&message.id=268" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=7&message.id=268</A></DIV> <DIV><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=2&message.id=590" target=_blank></A> </DIV> <DIV>Guardians -</DIV> <DIV><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=3&message.id=1140" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=3&message.id=1140</A></DIV> <DIV><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=3&message.id=674" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=3&message.id=674</A></DIV> <DIV><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=3&message.id=794" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=3&message.id=794</A></DIV> <DIV>Berserkers -</DIV> <DIV><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=4&message.id=770" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=4&message.id=770</A></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Shadowknight -</DIV> <DIV><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=9&message.id=574" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=9&message.id=574</A></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Templars -</DIV> <DIV><U><FONT color=#0000ff><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=13&message.id=667" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=13&message.id=667</A></FONT></U></DIV> <DIV><U><FONT color=#0000ff><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=13&message.id=484" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=13&message.id=484</A></FONT></U></DIV> <DIV>Inquisitors -</DIV> <DIV><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=14&message.id=385" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=14&message.id=385</A></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Wardens -</DIV> <DIV><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=16&message.id=106" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=16&message.id=106</A></DIV> <DIV>Furys -</DIV> <DIV><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=17&message.id=148" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=17&message.id=148</A></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Mystics (not really a self-defeatist thread, but look at how they describe paladins to be an important player in a group) -</DIV> <DIV><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=19&message.id=320" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=19&message.id=320</A></DIV> <DIV>Defilers -</DIV> <DIV><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=20&message.id=34" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=20&message.id=34</A></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Wizards (talk about vanity) -</DIV> <DIV><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=23&message.id=685" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=23&message.id=685</A></DIV> <DIV>Warlocks -</DIV> <DIV><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=24&message.id=453" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=24&message.id=453</A></DIV> <DIV><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=24&message.id=348" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=24&message.id=348</A></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Illusionists -</DIV> <DIV><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=26&message.id=21" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=26&message.id=21</A></DIV> <DIV>Coercers -</DIV> <DIV><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=27&message.id=136" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=27&message.id=136</A></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Conjurers -</DIV> <DIV><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=29&message.id=217" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=29&message.id=217</A></DIV> <DIV>Necromancers -</DIV> <DIV><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=30&message.id=261" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=30&message.id=261</A></DIV> <DIV><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=30&message.id=340" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=30&message.id=340</A> (follow-up to the previous one haha)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Swashbucklers -</DIV> <DIV><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=33&message.id=368" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=33&message.id=368</A></DIV> <DIV>Brigands -</DIV> <DIV><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=34&message.id=16" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=34&message.id=16</A></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Troubadors -</DIV> <DIV><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=36&message.id=43" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=36&message.id=43</A></DIV> <DIV>Dirges -</DIV> <DIV><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=37&message.id=193" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=37&message.id=193</A></DIV> <DIV><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=37&message.id=114" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=37&message.id=114</A></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Rangers -</DIV> <DIV><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=39&message.id=343" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=39&message.id=343</A></DIV> <DIV><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=39&message.id=4" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=39&message.id=4</A></DIV> <DIV>Assassins -</DIV> <DIV><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=40&message.id=371" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=40&message.id=371</A></DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[mnofdea]

<DIV>I have never ever had a problem getting a group and also tanking Paladin's for life my man you can tank and IMO as I level its just gets better and better.</DIV>

[Reis]

<DIV>Well said Vaiyo.  Way to be the voice of reason.  Paladins aren't perfect, but I'm very happy with the class.  At the moment, I have a strong ward which allows me to solo yellow cons two levels higher, and everyone in my groups love.  I have a horse that allows me to move faster than any other player in the game at the moment.  I have a heal which, while not enough to allow me to play a true healer, is great in a pinch and very versatile.  Finally, I have a get-out-of-jail-free card that saves someone's life just about every time I use it.  So yeah, my dps is kinda low and I may not be the absolute best meat-shield out there, but I'm about as versatile as it comes.</DIV>

[BoomJa]

We tank differently than a guardian. We tank just as well. I often have Guardians defer to me as MT in a group. It is just an education issue with players.

[daaarkfi]

<DIV>say at 50, will i mostly be a assist to the mt? really dont like assisting the MT, like being the mt :p</DIV>

[Oxboy5]

<DIV>Two words:  solo career</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Pallys are arguably the most soloable class.  Let's see if the EQ2 design and content eventually support some degree of post level-25 soloing.</DIV>

[Andy Dav]

<DIV>Paladins are Leaders.     Really, that's pretty much all there is to it. The higher they level, the better they can protect and kill. A Paladin truly is a knight in shining armour, because the Paladin put in the shoes of the right player will play the general. And why not? They have decent protection spells, they can save a player from a bout of xp debt and will hold strong in a battle. The interesting thing is, they aren't really meant to be a tank all the time, switching positions is the point. A Paladin get's an overall foresight on the battle because of their abilities. Paladins demand respect, and honour, and glory when they are fighting for the right cause. When you have a Paladin on your team be proud, because you know what he/she stands for, and what they are capable of.</DIV>

[BoomJa]

<blockquote><hr>daaarkfire wrote:<DIV>say at 50, will i mostly be a assist to the mt? really dont like assisting the MT, like being the mt :p</DIV><hr></blockquote>At this point it is anybody's guess what play will be like at level 50, and remember, that can change in one quick patch. I enjoy the Paladin. I can play MT just fine, or I can play off-tank just fine. Lay Hands has saved many groups. Holy Steed makes outdoor pulling a joy. At the moment if you want to be MT and want the population to recognize you as such, you need to play a Guardian. That may change. Your mileage may vary. The opinions expressed here.... and all that. =)

[Vai]

<DIV> <DIV>I think Boomjack hit the nail on the head when he said that everything can change in one quick patch.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also remember that every fighter <STRONG>can</STRONG> be the main tank (I cannot stress that enough), but they do it differently.  It's all a matter of style how you may want to tank and select the proper sub-class to do so; sadly to say, many 'MMORPG veterans' are still caught on the notion that there is one (sub-)class that does one task the best and all others are worthless - which is by design, complete and utterly false in EQ2.</DIV></DIV>