Question for a few SK's

[Blazzo]

<DIV>Ok, I have leveled a Zerrker to 55, Monk to 60 and a Guardian to 51.  Not that I got bored, but I just couldnt get excited about them past that.  </DIV> <DIV>Here is the scenario, I will be grouping 99% of the time with the same group, 4 of us.  2 Warlocks and a Warden.  I know enough about Guardian, Monk and Zerker to know that I do not want to play them anymore... so next is either Paladin or SK.</DIV> <DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Oh, one more thing.  I have about 60 plat for this toon, so I will always have the best gear and all Adept 3+ spells/skills.</DIV></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Here is what I liked/disliked :</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><U>The Guardian</U></DIV> <DIV>Liked : The way he kept aggro.  With 2 Warlocks nuking and AOE'ing he only lost aggro a few times but it got it back ASAP.</DIV> <DIV>Disliked : The lack of fun to play it.  The "vanilla" spells/skills and AA line.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><U>The Zerker</U> </DIV> <DIV>Liked : The DPS he could dish out as well as good tanking ability with defensive stance.</DIV> <DIV>Disliked : I cant put my finger on this one, there is just something about the class that doesnt agree with me.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><U>Monk</U></DIV> <DIV>Liked : Feign Death (saved us countless number of times), his AE attacks and on even con and lower mobs he seemed to do very well tanking (although I know post 50 they are lacking)</DIV> <DIV>Disliked : Had a harder time tanking anything above his level.  Seemed lacking on taunt ability and I just never seemed to be in control on a fight (like it could turn for the worse at any second).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Ok, so there it is.  </DIV> <DIV>Now I have to ask, do you guys think SK is the answer for me?  I really find SK's LOVE their toons, but I need to know a few things....</DIV> <DIV>1.  Are they closer to Guardians, Zerkers or Monks in the 3 tanking abilities : Overall tanking, maintaining aggro and DPS.  How do they rank?</DIV> <DIV>2.  The Guardian was so easy to play, you literally could button mash and be as effective.  Are SK's the same way?</DIV> <DIV>3.  Are they a better Group (3+ MOB's) tank or solo MOB tank?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Feel free to add in anything you wish on why you enjoy the SK.  I promise your input will be heard and I will be basing my decision on it.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Beldin_]

<P>SKs are best at 8 Mobs <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> .. you have to work for your aggro a lot with doing dps .. and you do the best dps with your AoEs <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>However .. i also seldom have issues with single mobs .. only .. we have a little aggro hungry brigant who likes to steal aggro from me .. but he never died from that, because normally its at the end of the fight. Also .. our Fury sometimes starts to cast starnova when i'm still bodypulling .. in that cases you have trouble to get aggro back .. but also she never died from that till now .. and you can play such games if you know your groupmates <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>So in the end .. for my experience in groups  DPS like Monks / Bruiser or better .. much better then all other plate tanks.</P> <P>Aggro .. much better then monks/bruiser at groups .. you have to work harder for it like other plate tanks.</P>

[Superiorxgodz]

<DIV>My SK is only lvl 15 atm, but i have grouped with a few on my lvl 70. What ive learned is they are great at maintaining aggro late into the fight. Sk's have a buff that increases hate everytime they get hit with melee i think it is. So even OOC mobs will be attacking you with well managed aggro. So when you move to the next encounter if your taking on multiple ecounters, you will already have well maintained aggro starting off. Also their single target taunt has an increase over time. Thats pretty much it for the aggro. They have awsome dps out of the plate wearers but im not sure how they match up to zerkers. I also know that Sk's are very good soloers and get FD which is an awsome utility, so if you liked that your monk saving the group with FD your sk can also do that. Alot of their self buffs do damage and heal you but are procs. You said your grouping 99% of the time but you will be able to solo that 1% of the time or whenever you get bored of grouping. Thats my input of what ive experienced so far, what ive heard, and what ive grouped with.</DIV>

[Blazzo]

Whjat about tanking ability.. Say with defensive stance on and a sheild equipped? 

[Ciarr]

<P>comparing SK to guardian (nerver played zerker, monk or bruiser so I can only compare to guardian):</P> <P>- SK is a lot more power hungry (so you may want to make sure that warden use Spirit of the bat on you...)</P> <P>- it's harder to keep agro on low levels</P> <P>- SK can grab agro on multiple ancounter a lot faster (58+)</P> <P>- it's a different type of tanking, you need to use abilities wisly, button-mushing doesn't work too well, it's not a rocket science either but it seems that many people don't get it</P> <P>- you need to focus on many stats as SK (unlike guardians who needs str/agi/sta, SK usually use a mixture of caster nad tank items (int=agro))</P> <P>- warlocks are always a problem to keep agro off, personally I recomend getting hate transfer AA it helps a lot (of course KoS int 448 first)</P> <P>- tanking ability? hmm in groups if there is no risk of add I usually pull even-con heroics^^^ with healer afk</P> <P>- I can't imagine I wasted so much time playing guardian... <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>SK shines on multiple mob encounters and I really mean shine</P> <P>some AA hints:</P> <P>- int 448 (KoS) is a must (spell crits (this include lifetaps!))<BR>- sta 448 (KoS) is recomended (hammer ground + melee crits)<BR>- hate transfer (EoF) - imho</P> <P>some leveling hints:</P> <P>- go to 12 as soon as possible SKs are crap on levels 1-11 (low dps, poor tanking, you will have hard time soloing even con solo mob)</P> <P>- get infernal blessing master 2 at 14</P> <P>- about level 20 you should get the 1st feel how this class plays like</P> <P>- when I pick master2 traing (24+) I always look at AE taunt first, single one next and if none is available I go with blessing, our AE taunt is the best upfront hate we have and it also increase our dps by debuffing mob = really good deal</P> <P>- use 1h and shield while tanking, 2h is not worth loosing shield and taunt, and if you want xp faster it's usually more efficient to pull more mobs with shield equiped than use 2h to kill them 2% faster</P> <P>- remember most of your damage and agro comes from spells not melee</P> <P> </P>

[Miya111]

<DIV>I personally love my SK.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I have both a 70 monk and 70 SK, and I hardly if ever log my monk in anymore.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>With my SK I have very few if any issues holding onto a grp or grps of mobs, can tank multiple encounters and hold onto all of them with very few problems.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The only time I really ever have an issue is when I run into an overnukking wizard, and for some reason brigands that debuff and smack the mob around a little too hard in a .5 second time frame.  As far as tanking ability, ive managed to get my SK to 57.6% miti, 60% avoid, and roughly 10.5k hps when in a regular xp grp, and tanked the same content as guards and zerkers without an issue.  Mind you he isnt even wearing a single peice of fabled gear yet.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Personally I think its about your playstyle, I love my SK hands down, but its a personal choice I guess.</DIV>

[CHIMPNOODLE.]

<DIV>"Ok, so there it is.  </DIV> <DIV>Now I have to ask, do you guys think SK is the answer for me?  I really find SK's LOVE their toons, but I need to know a few things...."</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>1.  Are they closer to Guardians, Zerkers or Monks in the 3 tanking abilities : Overall tanking, maintaining aggro and DPS.  How do they rank? </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I think it depends on how you spec and gear them. Mine is closest to a guardian I would say, my DPS is low, but my AAs, HP and mitigation are all high and about survivability.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>2.  The Guardian was so easy to play, you literally could button mash and be as effective.  Are SK's the same way?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Not really no. Mashing buttons doesn't work very well at all, not to mention several of our abilities are AOEs with a pretty nice range on em....mashing buttons = trouble.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>3.  Are they a better Group (3+ MOB's) tank or solo MOB tank? </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I consider them the top Group mob tank at the moment, including Group and Raid encounters. No other tank class has better tools for that type of encounter [ Despoil +333 mitigation for every mob in an encounter with a long duration at M1, snap aggro Deathmarch AOE rescue/DPS boost and DPS proc on every mob death, pestillence AOE dot that spreads mob to mob upon mob death, many AOEs some of which are Dots, Hate/dammage with every hit 100% proc, proc heal buffs with every hit, dammage shields/heal 360 degree, Divine Aura aborb 30 hits in 10 seconds if under 50% Hp dammage AA, AOE lifetap/dammage, AOE knockback/stun AA, and seriously...the list goes on.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As a solo mob tank they are top notch as well. I say they are better group mob tank simply becasue that's where they shine..not for any deficiency whatsoever on singles. To each his own, but SKs are phenomenal tanks with a lot of style.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Norrsken]

<div><blockquote><hr>Blazzo wrote:<div>Ok, so there it is.  </div> <div>Now I have to ask, do you guys think SK is the answer for me?  I really find SK's LOVE their toons, but I need to know a few things....</div> <div>1.  Are they closer to Guardians, Zerkers or Monks in the 3 tanking abilities : Overall tanking, maintaining aggro and DPS.  How do they rank?</div> <div>2.  The Guardian was so easy to play, you literally could button mash and be as effective.  Are SK's the same way?</div> <div>3.  Are they a better Group (3+ MOB's) tank or solo MOB tank?</div> <div> </div> <div>Feel free to add in anything you wish on why you enjoy the SK.  I promise your input will be heard and I will be basing my decision on it.  </div> <div> </div> <div> </div><hr></blockquote>1. the SK is very versatile and what it plays like heavily depends on how you build it. you can do as chimpnoodle here, and go survivability, low dps and be guardian like. Or you can go dps and be a more brittle, but have higher dps. Or you can go the middle road. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />either way, maintaining aggro has never been an issue to me, neither has grabbing adds. We have quite a few skills to deal with those situations. Keeping alive, not really a problem either since, under the right circumstances (and as a tank, I pick the circumstances) I can heal myself as good as a healer. Those situations, though, tend to feak people out so dont do it in PuGs unless you wanna have a laugh. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />2. the sk is not as easy to play as the guardian. It's not very hard, and you'll prollyt have a hang of it at least by t4. Probably earlier. And, your gear and setup also plays into this. 3. They do best with 8 mobs pounding them. If its 2 4 mob en counters or 8 1 mob encounters you need a bit of different setup in your group. You could pretty easily handle 2 heroic groups of 4 mobs solo, blue and down. If its all single heroic mobs, you need a healer or two (depending on the healer) to back you up. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> We can keep aggro on 1 single mob, but its just as much work as 8, so I tend to go for 8 as often as I can and trust my group (Not recommended to go for 8 single heroics if its a PuG. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> ). </div>

[Nocifer Deathblade]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Blazzo wrote:<BR> <DIV>Here is the scenario, I will be grouping 99% of the time with the same group, 4 of us.  <STRONG>2 Warlocks</STRONG> and a Warden.  I know enough about Guardian, Monk and Zerker to know that I do not want to play them anymore... so next is either Paladin or SK.</DIV> <DIV> <DIV> </DIV></DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P> </P> <P>There is your answer..   SK is right class to go with 2 Warlocks..  They go together nicely..   SK has mean-[Removed for Content] disease debuff AE that Warlocks NEED to do their job very well. Warlocks will find that they could land their spells ALOT easier when SK is in their group..  SK even has EOF AA that FURTHER increase AE taunt's power by making it harder to resist for SK to land PLUS adds 50% more to disease debuff from 1k to 1.5k to each mob that Warlocks would love you for it..  Just cost you 8 EOF aa to max out your AE taunt.. What's more..  There is even MASTER 2 AE taunt for you to acquire at lvl 64 at no cost. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>Cuz you'll group up with 2 warlocks all the time, you would want to design your Sk to be a AE tank.  KOS aa named Trample would help you out as well as AE hammer to maximize your AE damage AND added AE taunt and invest into EOF AA hate line as well as 3% hate transfer. Warlocks surely will produce lot of taunts so 3% would mean more to you generated by them..  </P><p>Message Edited by Nocifer Deathblade on <span class=date_text>01-03-2007</span> <span class=time_text>10:19 AM</span>

[Kryptonix]

<div><blockquote><hr>Blazzo wrote:<div>Ok, I have leveled a Zerrker to 55, Monk to 60 and a Guardian to 51.  Not that I got bored, but I just couldnt get excited about them past that.  </div> <div>Here is the scenario, I will be grouping 99% of the time with the same group, 4 of us.  2 Warlocks and a Warden.  I know enough about Guardian, Monk and Zerker to know that I do not want to play them anymore... so next is either Paladin or SK.</div> <div> <div> </div> <div>Oh, one more thing.  I have about 60 plat for this toon, so I will always have the best gear and all Adept 3+ spells/skills.</div></div> <div> </div> <div>Here is what I liked/disliked :</div> <div> </div> <div><u>The Guardian</u></div> <div>Liked : The way he kept aggro.  With 2 Warlocks nuking and AOE'ing he only lost aggro a few times but it got it back ASAP.</div> <div>Disliked : The lack of fun to play it.  The "vanilla" spells/skills and AA line.</div> <div> </div> <div><u>The Zerker</u> </div> <div>Liked : The DPS he could dish out as well as good tanking ability with defensive stance.</div> <div>Disliked : I cant put my finger on this one, there is just something about the class that doesnt agree with me.</div> <div> </div> <div><u>Monk</u></div> <div>Liked : Feign Death (saved us countless number of times), his AE attacks and on even con and lower mobs he seemed to do very well tanking (although I know post 50 they are lacking)</div> <div>Disliked : Had a harder time tanking anything above his level.  Seemed lacking on taunt ability and I just never seemed to be in control on a fight (like it could turn for the worse at any second).</div> <div> </div> <div>Ok, so there it is.  </div> <div>Now I have to ask, do you guys think SK is the answer for me?  I really find SK's LOVE their toons, but I need to know a few things....</div> <div>1.  Are they closer to Guardians, Zerkers or Monks in the 3 tanking abilities : Overall tanking, maintaining aggro and DPS.  How do they rank?</div> <div>2.  The Guardian was so easy to play, you literally could button mash and be as effective.  Are SK's the same way?</div> <div>3.  Are they a better Group (3+ MOB's) tank or solo MOB tank?</div> <div> </div> <div>Feel free to add in anything you wish on why you enjoy the SK.  I promise your input will be heard and I will be basing my decision on it.  </div> <div> </div> <div> </div><hr></blockquote>1. SKs are nothing like Warriors or Brawlers. You can make them LIKE them, but even if you make them like those classes, if you plan on taking your SK to the best it can be you should NEVER play an SK like you would a Warrior or Brawler. Like I said you can make them like Warriors and have high HP and high survivability, but if you play an SK like a Warrior, your gimping yourself. If you try and play like a Brawler, again your gimping yourself. SKs are a combination of utility, dps, and tank. So if you want to play an SK well, your going to have to play all 3 of those classes rolled into 1 bad [Removed for Content] mofo. 2. Like I said SKs are nothing like Warriors, and never should be played like one. You need to plan things out and do things in a certain order. If you want more DPS and agro generation, then your going to have to keep your debuffs up. If you want to be able to survive, your going to have to use your life taps effectively. With a Guard its easy, like you said. Gaurds dont have to make the choices an SK does. When you start your SK, you are gonna have to think about what you want and your gonna have to think hard. Our AAs REALLY make us unique like you wouldnt believe. 3. As everyone has stated, 8 mobs and we shine like no other tank. I love pulling multiple groups at once, 5-8 mobs is usually how much I like pulling at once time. But sometimes it doesnt work out, group members sometimes get scared and panic and it all goes to hell. If you ever get a group with 2 healers, I advise you to pull 8 mobs all the time. We excel the more mobs are around us, in encounter or not.If you plan on making an SK be prepared to devout some time to it. In my opinion we get our stride once we are able to master 2 our reactive heal (Blessing Line). Then after we break into our stride we break into a sprint in the 50s, thats when we get our dreaded AE life tap. After that we get Death March, then say goodbye to any and all agro troubles you face. IMO this class is the best tank class in the game, because we can do so many things at once. We can tank, DPS, and be utility. But at the same time we can choose which we favor more Tank, DPS, Utility, or a combination of 2 or all 3. You will never see a Warrior survive the things SKs can, same with a Brawler. Ive done some things most Warriors/Brawlers cant ever do.... Walk into SoS and pull half a room of mobs and walk out alive, pull 24 gazers in gazer isle and live, FD the guy who thinks hes MT and pull the mobs myself, solo nest (except last named), etc. </div>

[Soefje]

<P>I have a 70 lvl SK and was routinely group with a wizzy and assassin.  If they gave me a sec, to let me get both taunts and shield bash, they could unleash everything they had and not pull aggro.  Granted I could not sleep, I had to keep the DPS up, but the 3 of us could take any yellow con or lower ^^ and any white con or lower ^^^, if not named.  </P> <P>I have grouped recently in instance zones and many times been the 2nd tank (usually let the guardian to the main tank role) and would pull adds.  I would use both taunts and then just do DPS, the guardian usually could not pull aggro off of me.    Also, was in a group with another SK, we rocked.  We would lifetap ward whoever had the aggro and just go to town, we cleared out SOS like it was nothing.</P> <P>If I did not run out of power, I would be invinicable.  And that is why I die a lot solo, I think I am invinicable most of the time and am not afraid to attack most anything even con or lower.</P> <P>Definitely go SK.</P>

[Kryptonix]

<div><blockquote><hr>Soefje wrote:<div></div><p>If I did not run out of power, I would be invinicable.  And that is why I die a lot solo, I think I am invinicable most of the time and am not afraid to attack most anything even con or lower.</p> <p>Definitely go SK.</p><hr></blockquote>I so know how you feel. I look at a bunch of mobs and say "No way I could do that" then another voice says "Dude your an SK, you can FD and Evac. Dont be Scurd". The latter seems to win most of the time. </div>

[Norrsken]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kryptonix wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Soefje wrote:<BR> <P>If I did not run out of power, I would be invinicable.  And that is why I die a lot solo, I think I am invinicable most of the time and am not afraid to attack most anything even con or lower.</P> <P>Definitely go SK.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>I so know how you feel. I look at a bunch of mobs and say "No way I could do that" then another voice says "Dude your an SK, you can FD and Evac. Dont be Scurd". The latter seems to win most of the time. <BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>I've noticed the same thing.</P> <P>"Hey, its a full room of socials. Your healer will scream angrily at you." ... And the other one says "Bah, he's a healer. He's supposed to heal. And its more fun to freak people out. Do it!"</P> <P>The bad part is, Im a bit crazy to begin with. And the healer is my GF. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </P>