Jousting,

[Ishnar]

<DIV>ok, so I got Joust and it's supposed to swing twice if I have a horse right?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It's attacking twice and I don't have a horse.  21-39/21-38 both times.  At level 11 APP I, at level 12 APP II it's 25-41/25-40</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm comming back after a few months away.  Before I left, weapon damage ranges varied according to who was looking.  For example, I used to browse the broker with wy SK, to buy weapons and other things.  I'd see a good weapon, write the stats down and buy it, and then transfer it to my Defiler, but the weapon ranges would be different once I had my defiler look at it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now the weapon ranges are staying the same, but I'm hitting for greater than my weapon's damage.  My weapon is supposed to do 9-27 damage, but I'm usually hitting 33-47 or so not including crits or procs.  Is there a way to see what the modified ranges are now?  Thank you.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Ishnar on <span class=date_text>12-19-2006</span> <span class=time_text>12:35 AM</span>

[Arlon]

/weaponstats <div></div>

[Nocifer Deathblade]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Ishnar wrote:<BR> <DIV>ok, so I got Joust and it's supposed to swing twice if I have a horse right?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It's attacking twice and I don't have a horse.  21-39/21-38 both times.  At level 11 APP I, at level 12 APP II it's 25-41/25-40</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>You don't even need horse to joust twice. I know description is wrong or it's a bug for long time. </P> <P>You can check out for more info on joust and beyond in AGI line found here at <A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=9&message.id=18201&view=by_date_ascending&page=1" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=9&message.id=18201&view=by_date_ascending&page=1</A> that I wrote up.. I kept linking those to Sks who kept asking about AGI and stuff. I guess this thread should be sticked or something heh so I can stop linking this thread many times..</P>

[Ishnar]

<P>Actually I had read your wonderful thread and was glad to see I'm not the only one.  I did overlook this line in your thread though. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr> <P><STRONG>Joust - Cast time = .5, Recast = 30 sec, spear+horseback (NOTE: it can be used for double attack without horse/carpet and can be used indoor as well at this time. A bug.)</STRONG></P></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>So I take it, for now, there is no additional damage for using a horse, since it's bugging and giving it to us now anyway....</P> <P>One small note, At low level the resistability seems to start at 20% easier.  I'm noticing it gets parried a LOT.</P>

[Nocifer Deathblade]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Ishnar wrote:<BR> <P>One small note, At low level the resistability seems to start at 20% easier.  I'm noticing it gets parried a LOT.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Gee, 20% easier now? Yeah, EOF combat change changes resist level of many spells/cas alot.  I gotta check what rank 8 resist is now at when I get home. Hope not much changed like rank 1 did.. </P> <P>I'm still [Removed for Content] that there are severely lack of 1h piercer available for SKs. Pike of Pain is basically cheapest fabled 2hp and I am loving it since but had no luck in getting better 1hpierce other than mastercrafted xegonite voulge that I'm still using.  I don't like ancient velium spear cuz of too fast delay of 1.3s. Voulge delay of 2.5 s is just right for SK without slowing melee dps down while casting lot of spells.  Spear of fire or something has 1.6 sec and weaker proc than mastercrafted. Mastercrafted voulge has mean-[Removed for Content] proc of nearly 600 dmg max and crit alot with 68% spell crit gee. I never seen fabled 1h pierce up for sale for SK at all since KOS... </P> <P>If SOE makes Wurmslayer 1h pierceable along with DW and 2hstaff (I never understand why its 2h staff instead of great spear) then I'll be happy and Wurmslayer would be ideal weapon for Cavaliers switching 1h or 2h whatever situation fits.. <BR></P><p>Message Edited by Nocifer Deathblade on <span class=date_text>12-19-2006</span> <span class=time_text>02:36 PM</span>

[Ishnar]

<P>Actually, I'll double check this when I get home tonight, I said that off the top if my head.  I could be confusing it with something else.</P> <P>Right now I'm just using a two hander.  I used my old main to make an Imbued Halberd, but failed to make pristine, so wasted a rare.  I was annoyed, but luckily, when I went back to the broker, someone put another on sale for only 10g, so I snatched it up and tried again.  I had hoped to alternate with a 1h/shield combo, but for now the 2h seems to do pretty nice. </P> <P>I think I'm going to pass the time waiting for LU33 doing writs so I can buy a war barded black calvaly horse.  I would prefer better itemization, but I think I can live with things the way they are.  </P> <P>My Image of a SK is Calvary plus axe.  The Sk jousts with the Paladin, knocks him off his horse, then climbs down himself and take his axe off it's hook on the saddle and proceeds to chop the paladin into bits and pieces.</P> <P> I'd rather mix the Agi and Str lines for RP reasons, but the hit would be too big, so I capitulated and decided to go for the spell crits in the Int line.  It would make my day though to find out that going STR 4-4-8 wouldn't be much different damage wise than INT 4-4-8</P>

[Mistmoore-Milaga]

<div><blockquote><hr>Nocifer Deathblade wrote:<div></div> <div></div>If SOE makes Wurmslayer 1h pierceable along with DW and 2hstaff (I never understand why its 2h staff instead of great spear) then I'll be happy and Wurmslayer would be ideal weapon for Cavaliers switching 1h or 2h whatever situation fits.. <hr></blockquote>I suppose it is a staff so that brawlers can use it with their staff-only AAs. I suppose it would be us or them we can't use staffs and they can't use spears.</div>

[Nocifer Deathblade]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Milaga wrote: <DIV><BR>I suppose it is a staff so that brawlers can use it with their staff-only AAs. I suppose it would be us or them we can't use staffs and they can't use spears.<BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Devs must love brawlers. Wurmslayer is screaming as a lance by its design to kill dragons with. 2h blunt hurting dragon scales? HECK NO! Must have THRUST ability to pierce thru dragon thick hide to kill. There are so many lores about how to kill dragons and lance or any thrusting method to kill them. I never heard of any fighters using blunts to successfully kill a dragon. Fighter with swords can kill dragon if they thrust swords instead of slashing. You cannot even thrust 2h staff at all to hurt dragon. Lol. Like I said before, horrible, horrible design of final Wurmslayer 2h version on SOE's part.  Wurmslayer is more of knight's material not brawler's..

[Ishnar]

<div></div><div align="left">Hey Nocifer,I'm currently working on an experiment.I'm still stuck in Paladin mode until LU33, but I've just got higher ground so I expect to be able to test this when LU33 comes out.I'm going to spend a day betraying and getting all my skills up, I've already started stockpiling the rares for Adept 3s.   Then I'm going to test a new AS config. STR 4/8/5 Agi 4/8/8/4/1(<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />I know everyone loves that Int line and the common wisdom is that most of our damage comes from spells not melee, so on the face of it Int wins hands down.  But it seems that a significant portion of our damage comes from procs, and haste increases the proc rate.  With adornments, it's easy to outfit ourselves so we proc just by looking at a mob.I won't be able to test this (for SK) until LU33, but what I'm hoping to find out, is that the DPS difference between the two isn't that big of a deal.  Trample is a proc, and so many SK damage spells are procs, so it's the difference between a higher proc rate vs fewer but bigger procs.RP wise, I'd rather have an axe as my secondary weapon anyway. </div><div></div><p>Message Edited by Ishnar on <span class=date_text>01-09-2007</span> <span class=time_text>12:46 PM</span>

[Nocifer Deathblade]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Ishnar wrote:<BR> <DIV align=left>Hey Nocifer,<BR><BR>I know everyone loves that Int line and the common wisdom is that most of our damage comes from spells not melee, so on the face of it Int wins hands down.  But it seems that a significant portion of our damage comes from procs, and haste increases the proc rate.  With adornments, it's easy to outfit ourselves so we proc just by looking at a mob.<BR><BR> <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Nice RP picture of AXE+Lance using lance to dismount paladin followed by axe to hack him to pieces. <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> It's always good to experiment different combinations to make RP more interesting. RP design is always fun and motivating to play.</P> <P>Let's look at this picture of design itself (not rp)  STR vs STA vs INT that applies to proc for AGI.. </P> <P>We know that AGI is being affected by STR and STA and not affected by INT at all would cuz melee crit affects Joust..   Melee crit affects lance as well.. Haste % affect trample.. Int doesn't magnify agi line as well as str line would.. The reason why I took INT over STR and STA to work with agi line is that we got lot of strong ones which are spells plus all lifetaps are being affected by INT. Also, we got 14 spells and only 5 CAs (7 CAs if you doing full Cavalier) on our disposal to use. 68% crit on 14 spells is more useful than 18% or 20% melee crit (I forget) on only 7 CAs +  autoattack + trample.  Of course, if we got 68% melee crit then it'll change everything. Now, new awesome EOF Reaver line is further benefitted by INT line as well.. </P> <P>You are saying that most damage comes from proc alone. Without putting AGI (Trample)  into the picture, all our procs are spell based that is also affected by haste AND spell crit..</P> <P>We know that spell crit adds 30% dps to proc damage but modified by 68% crit means  68% x 30% = 20.4 % dps boost to proc damage power  compared to 18% haste that would boost proc damage by 18% or LESS (if you got faster weapon). To me, it seems that spell crit of 68% is better off than 18% haste to increase our proc damage. </P> <P>With EOF into picture that made INT line more attractive over STR line thanks to the popularity of reaver line.  But I'm a true Vampire Cavalier that depends on agi line and power of lifetap. That means I need str, sta, agi and INT to work better to go with but impossible to do so due to 50 points cap so ended up going for agi+int+reaver.  That route would strengthen Reaver side of Cavalier but weaken the Physical side of Cavalier (weaker joust, weaker lance, weaker trample)..   </P> <P>Looks like there is 2 styles of Cavaliers that I could see.. </P> <P>1. Vampire Cavalier = AGI+INT+Reaver for deadly lifetapping mounted vampire. I think you could give lance up easier on this route cuz you got no melee crit to support it to free up points to invest in other stat line like str or sta or wis or whatever.. </P> <P>2. Cavalier (physical style) = STR or/and STA+AGI and dunno about EOF seems more flexilble. for deadly physical dps damage and weaker lifetap. For Sta line, it's tough to give lance up cuz of added melee crit but give up 18% dps on trample..  If you want most use out of trample power itself then best go on str+sta+agi  4-4-8 to all 3 to obtain haste+melee crit on your max trample power.  </P> <P>There are several choices to go with AGI. Tough decisions heh. of course, I want all melee crit, haste, spell crit, etc etc but just had to go on what fits my RP better which is Vampire Cavalier that I think agi+int+reaver is good way to go. Giving up lance would just nullify the RP sense of Cavalier title..  Remember, lance itself adds about 25 dps. So, if giving lance up, defensive bonus and 4 ranks in joust up to invest into melee crit OR haste 18% would outweight 25 dps + lost joust dps of 4 ranks then that would be good to go. </P> <P>Oh right, one biggest factor of INT benefit is that it affects Signet of Darkness (My favorite ring ever)  that procs lifetap,  SK set gear that procs lifetap too.. Inny cloak procs lifetap so go on. All are being affected by spell crit not melee crit.. Having gear can alter the decision of the design. </P><p>Message Edited by Nocifer Deathblade on <span class=date_text>01-09-2007</span> <span class=time_text>05:03 PM</span>

[Ishnar]

<div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div><blockquote><hr>Nocifer Deathblade wrote:<div></div> <div></div> <div></div> <div></div> <div></div> <div></div><div align="left">Nice RP picture of AXE+Lance using lance to dismount paladin followed by axe to hack him to pieces. <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> It's always good to experiment different combinations to make RP more interesting. RP design is always fun and motivating to play.</div> <p></p><blockquote><font color="#cc0000">I've always liked it <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  But going full out RP hopefully won't cripple me.  That's the main purpose of this experiment.  If I have to solo mobs 1 level lower than those you can solo, then I'll call it a sucess.  Either way, achievements still add to my abiities.  So I won't be broken if I don't follow the beaten path.....I hope.  cue. doom music.</font></blockquote>Let's look at this picture of design itself (not rp)  STR vs STA vs INT that applies to proc for AGI.. <p>We know that AGI is being affected by STR and STA and not affected by INT at all would cuz melee crit affects Joust..   Melee crit affects lance as well.. Haste % affect trample.. Int doesn't magnify agi line as well as str line would.. The reason why I took INT over STR and STA to work with agi line is that we got lot of strong ones which are spells plus all lifetaps are being affected by INT. Also, we got 14 spells and only 5 CAs (7 CAs if you doing full Cavalier) on our disposal to use. 68% crit on 14 spells is more useful than 18% or 20% melee crit (I forget) on only 7 CAs +  autoattack + trample.  Of course, if we got 68% melee crit then it'll change everything. Now, new awesome EOF Reaver line is further benefitted by INT line as well.. </p> <p>You are saying that most damage comes from proc alone.</p><blockquote><p><font color="#cc0000">I'm not out in left field like that.  I don't know about most damage comming from procs, but a large amount seems to be accurate.  </font></p></blockquote><p> Without putting AGI (Trample)  into the picture, all our procs are spell based that is also affected by haste AND spell crit..</p> <p>We know that spell crit adds 30% dps to proc damage but modified by 68% crit means  68% x 30% = 20.4 % dps boost to proc damage power  compared to 18% haste that would boost proc damage by 18% or LESS (if you got faster weapon). To me, it seems that spell crit of 68% is better off than 18% haste to increase our proc damage.</p><p></p><blockquote><font color="#cc0000">This is what I'm seeing </font><font color="#cc0000"><a href="http://home.comcast.net/%7Emharper68/achievements/achievements.html" target="_blank">according to the AA thingie</a></font><font color="#cc0000"> (dated I know but until I get home it's all I have to refer to).  Swiftaxe gives a base of 29% haste for 20 secs.  My theoretical spec assums it goes up with points.   29%/3 = 9.67% average haste (29% for 20 seconds, +40 secs without.  If it does not increase with skill then max Avenger's relentlesness for the 18 or 20% buff.  Assuming there is diminishing returns, you said 18%, then 18+9.67 = 27.67% average dps boost for procing vs. the 20.4% from crits.  If there is not diminishing returns for AR then it will be 29.67% average haste.  And if Swiftaxe haste does increase with points, then higher still.I also suspect Trample does more than it says.  Even without a horse I keep on seeing trample proc, more interesting, I'm also noticing my weapon and class procs go off on mobs that I'm not targeting and at my level, I don't have defensive procs.   So trample seems to be increasing the proc rate.  Although, the proc rate might be unchanged, but the mob that gets it is determined randomly with trample  I'm leaning toward each mob getting a proc check vs my procs when trample goes off. Since trample is a proc and not a CA it's a bit difficult to test and verify.Of course, crits should still be better overall esp with reaving, but this is what I was talking about when I said maybe the gap is smaller than it first appears.  Swiftaxe itself gives some extra damage for my dps as well.  I can Joust, lance, swiftaxe combo for some serious pain at the beginning of a fight.  And since swiftaxe is once per minute, I won't be constantly swaping out.   Naturally, with this spec, with the preference for haste, haste augs and proc augs would be the general preference.I admit, a lot of the cause for this spec is disgust with buying a skill that isn't used, legionaires pact.  Swapping a symbol in with my 2h Polearm just doesn't seem fun. The only reason I'd be using a 1h is for the defensive benefits of a shield, and then I would'nt want to be swapping that shield out for a symbol.  With Swiftaxe and and joust, even using 1h weapons I have full access to my AS abilities and shield. </font></blockquote><hr></blockquote>I'm not just waiting on LU33 to betray though.  Right now I'm grinding writs for a war barded horse.  It's sad, but  I can no longer say I never grinded.  With LU33 fae will be able to buy horses I hear.  I might buy my horse before  betray, esp if there are any good new ones.  I have to wait for the guild to go up 5 more levels too.  Right now I've 130000 status, so 300000 more status to go, and a little more.</div><p>Message Edited by Ishnar on <span class=date_text>01-09-2007</span> <span class=time_text>05:17 PM</span>

[Nocifer Deathblade]

<DIV>Yeah, good point about swiftaxe ability. I didn't account that into the equation at all in first place. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Anyway, It's hard to picture a menacing fae SK with little toothpick lance with toy plastic axe to chop down human full-plate paladin? Hm.. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </DIV><p>Message Edited by Nocifer Deathblade on <span class=date_text>01-10-2007</span> <span class=time_text>09:14 AM</span>

[Kaedi]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Nocifer Deathblade wrote:<BR> <DIV>Yeah, good point about swiftaxe ability. I didn't account that into the equation at all in first place. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff9900>Anyway, It's hard to picture a menacing fae SK with little toothpick lance with toy plastic axe to chop down human full-plate paladin? Hm.. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </FONT></DIV> <P>Message Edited by Nocifer Deathblade on <SPAN class=date_text>01-10-2007</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>09:14 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Oh I don't know about that Noc.  I'd bet good coin that given the abilities, Tinkerbelle would have HT'd Wendy and then lined up all her ae's for the other brats.</DIV>

[Ishnar]

<div align="left"><blockquote><hr>Nocifer Deathblade wrote:<div></div> <div> </div> <div>Anyway, It's hard to picture a menacing fae SK with little toothpick lance with toy plastic axe to chop down human full-plate paladin? Hm.. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </div><p><span class="time_text"></span></p><hr></blockquote>Her original name was snugglebunny but she hated her name so much she killed her parents and everyoene else in the small village who knew her by that name.  Lately, she helped the McScroogle by identify an employee skimming off the books, and told off all of his former friends so they wouldn't bother him while he got busy with more important things, like making money.Lately she has had to live in Kelethin, but all of the sunny happy people have her climing up the walls with the need to kill indiscremenantly.  (as an aside, I've always drew great amusement when a little gnome goes into full battle with a pet dog three times larger than he is.  For a fae, everyone she kills is a giant!)</div><div></div>

[Nocifer Deathblade]

Heh, I think ogre Sk lets out a bestial, booming scream, "<FONT size=5>DIE, PANSY PALADIN! EAT THIS BIG MENANCING AXE!</FONT>" more imidiating than a little fae SK squeaking quietly, "<FONT size=1>Oh, look! A huge giant paladin! Eat this toothpick! Yarr!!!"  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></FONT>

[Ishnar]

<div align="left">Oh, I agree.Big, Strong, and UGLY is certianly more intimidating.  But I really don't derive my enjoyment from playing an SK from the intimidation factor.  I'm more interested in the turnaround.  If you read megatokyo you would know what I mean.Ph34r t3h cut3 0n3zI derive my enjoyment from running up to that big menacing ogre and yanking his face down to my level, and then dancing on his head.Sigh, being a paladin at 18 isn't as fun as being an SK at 18.  Overall, I wish I hadn't recreated my old SK.  She had all the cool /claim titles and stuff too <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div><div></div>