What raid mobs CANT we do ?

[Incur]

<DIV>Now im personally miles off being able to do the big raid stuff but... i was wandering those who can, what have you done ?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I heard that a SK has tanked Cheldrak now, and was wandering about the other end teir mobs is there anything which is too strong for us still or are we a viable raid tank for everything? rather than everything bar 2-3 mobs =)</DIV>

[CHIMPNOODLE.]

<DIV>There are no raid mobs that SKs can't tank that other tank classes can as of yet.</DIV>

[Axxon]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> CHIMPNOODLE. wrote:<BR> <DIV>There are no raid mobs that SKs can't tank that other tank classes can as of yet.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>The way it always should have been from launch.<BR>

[CHIMPNOODLE.]

<DIV>I agree that we had some nice boosts lately...but I've been our raid MT for over a year and a half now. We've been capable for quite some time, it's just gotten easier now and the playing field has evened (actually tipped in our favor in my opinion). I have to work less hard, concentrate a bit less on timing all my CAs/spells exactly right, use less mana etc.. I actually get off some longer casting spells now,  worry less if I don't have the right hate transfer classes, worry  less about getting a few lifetaps off when I could be throwing an extra taunt/Dot.....I'm very happy now <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[Incur]

<DIV>Cool, its just i know pre-EoF as far as i knew no SK had managed to tank  Cheldrak, was hoping we where up in the equal positions board for tanking now!  Loving the changes and im glad they are trying to balance the "all tanks can tank, just some better in certain situations" like they promised from the beginning, its a work in progress for sure.. but getting there!</DIV>

[gnarkill]

<div><blockquote><hr>Incurus wrote:<div>Cool, its just i know pre-EoF as far as i knew no SK had managed to tank  Cheldrak, was hoping we where up in the equal positions board for tanking now!  Loving the changes and im glad they are trying to balance the "all tanks can tank, just some better in certain situations" like they promised from the beginning, its a work in progress for sure.. but getting there!</div><hr></blockquote>Im pretty sure no SK tanking Chel'Drak pre-eof had more to do with healers not having new stuff to help us...Not us =p</div>

[Boke]

<font size="7"><font color="#ffff00">we cant tank coldtooth</font> </font><span>:smileysad:</span><div></div>

[CHIMPNOODLE.]

<DIV>LoL..don't believe it. It's more about opportunities.</DIV> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P><p>Message Edited by CHIMPNOODLE. on <span class=date_text>12-15-2006</span> <span class=time_text>09:12 PM</span>

[Hicar]

That's beside the point, but CD himself  is  much easier than pre EoF. The adds were harder and surprised us the first time we came back. More to the point, SK was lackign agro wise to other tanks, that has been fixed with DM upgrade. Pre EoF, high mitigation was much more meaningfull than now, and short term mitigation buffs the warriors had gave them an edge. Now things are pretty evened out. Each tanks has his strength. Guardian has higher hp pool and ToS that can make some pulls or some period w/o healing safer, especially when learning an encounter. Shadowknights have better snap agro with DM (2 min 35 recast, yummy) and can buff their offskills themselves with wis line battle leadership. The last one means that you don't need a warden in your group like warriors just for the skill bonus and you can go with more agro if you just want to burn through mobs. (put a group with sk, dirge, coercer, defiler, templar and swash, and you'llhave a swash skyrocketing dps and a very hard time for others to pull agro from you). You can make up for the lacks of each tanks by adjusting your setting and your tactic. You have a guardian tanking, enjoy the high hp and ToS and their other goodies, but pay attention to the agro to your crazy aoers. You have another tank, make use of intercede from other fighters in the raid to make for the lack of ToS. The only real thing that couldn't be made over for was mitigation (ye, fury had urchin, but wasn't as handy), and now it's both easier to come by (warden cures, despoil, siphon armament) and not as important as before.<div></div>

[CHIMPNOODLE.]

<DIV>Not to mention that most warriors seem to go down the Agi/Wis lines... an SK on the STA line ends up either on par or even with more HP depending on the gear mix, or what you are buffing for.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also, we have our own mitigation/survival buffs now, as well as god abilities for pulls if we want to be safe. I did a test on Gnillaw and Gnorbl last week for example (just because they are multi-mobs for Despoil to push it's limits). I got my mitigation to 11300 for the pull with group buffs, ToS has nothing on that for pure mitigation/duration of protection for those kinds of pulls. For good measure, I had thrown up Divine Aura as well. Took 18 hits off the pull, ToS would be good for 3...auto-parry off the pull is a bad idea for control. We all have our strenghts now.</DIV>

[Dogm]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> ta2demon wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Incurus wrote:<BR> <DIV>Cool, its just i know pre-EoF as far as i knew no SK had managed to tank  Cheldrak, was hoping we where up in the equal positions board for tanking now!  Loving the changes and im glad they are trying to balance the "all tanks can tank, just some better in certain situations" like they promised from the beginning, its a work in progress for sure.. but getting there!</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Im pretty sure no SK tanking Chel'Drak pre-eof had more to do with healers not having new stuff to help us...Not us =p<BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>More likely, most SKs didn't try before eof.   Pre-EoF  I tanked Matron down to 3% before dying,  so I'm sure Chel'drak would have been cake.

[Margen]

It never was that we couldn't tank raid mobs, we could, I have numerous times.  The problem was that warrirors werre more effecient tanking those mobs.  WIth the changes to DM, despoiling mist and some of our AA's we have come a lot closer to warriors then we used to.  We IMO still are a bit behind them, but its much closer now.

[CHIMPNOODLE.]

<P>I agree with Dogmae, it's was a matter of opportunities. I don't feel any tank class has the edge on SKs as it stands now.</P>

[Incur]

<P>Wonderfull, thanks guys!</P> <P>I just get sick and tired of the "hah, well come talk to me when Cheldrak has been tanked by a sk! hah!" comments and the like in the ol spam 60-69 channel =)</P> <P>I remember being told when Darathar was changed "Tanking him with a shadowknight is completely impossible, its impossible without a Guardian"<BR>and House Rea'Morda waving there prismatics going "Who do you think tanked this for us you numpty" hehe..  I thought there may have been a few encounters which where just completely unsuited to us, but with the mita changes, tanking is not so based on items now i guess.</P> <P>Cheers again</P>

[CHIMPNOODLE.]

It wasn't that much of a difference before either actually. It was looong before the recent mitigation changes that SKs have been capable of MTing the baddies...and looong before the DM change as well.

[Margen]

<P>Have to respectfully disagree with you there Chimp, before the rescent changes we were not on the level of warriors.  My gear is all fabled/raid legendary and Masters in almost all my spells, and when I tanked our raid leader, who is a healer, and is one of those people that anaylizes logs and parses, stated that it was more difficult to keep me up vs when our Beserker MT.  </P> <P>Was I able to do the job, yes, but it was more difficult on the raid then when our warrior tanked.  Before the changes to death march agro was lost a bit more and I took more damage.  Again I was able to perform the job and I know what my classes abilities were, but there was a measurable difference.</P> <P>With the rescent changes though we are in a much better position then in KOS.  Are we the most ubber raid tank, no, but we can at least compete with warriors for our main function.</P>

[CHIMPNOODLE.]

<P>It's no biggie...it's not a dissagreement. I did not say it was on par in the past(though for me a win is a win)...I said the difference was not that large. That's a direct response to what raid mobs can't SKs do...none, and that includes before DM changes, and before Mit changes. </P> <P>I know my HP were higher than most guards based on the gear choices and AA line I chose. My mitigation was extremely close, if not higher than most of the raiding tanks on our server regardless of class type (pre-eof) as well, with the exception of around 4 "primo" raid guilds our server hosts. Basically, the only difference was the temp buffs. The difference was also partially countered by our lifetapping/proc healing, and mitigated by WIS...my resists were usually considerably higher (my WIS is very high, as well as STA), and I had to swap out less gear/mit pieces for resist gear. Most of the mobs we parsed, showed me taking only slightly more dammage in melee hit per hit, but usually less from the big blast AOEs...seeing as the melee was the brunt of it, the small differentials added up and were substancial as total incoming dammage diffs....but in reality, the spikes were barely noticeable, and some of the dangerous spots (like heavy AOEs)..were smoother even. </P> <P>Technically,  warriors should be higher HP and higher Mit..in practice, not a lot are . As far as aggro Ctrl...given the same group setup in the MT group and equal raid DPS for our force anyway...it was always the same amount of aggro losses (and to the same people). There was no noticeable difference. That was pre-Dof. Last week, we hit ~26k on one particular fight for example....it was the non-MT SK that grabbed aggro (when it was lost) and locked things down with all the heavy DPSers flying at 2200 to 3K DPS...and the SK did not have any hate transfer on...he ping ponged with the highest Dps WIZ for a few secs....Wiz...DM...Wiz...Rescue...Wiz...FD...then safe (with HT still up for a fourth pong lol).</P> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P><p>Message Edited by CHIMPNOODLE. on <span class=date_text>12-19-2006</span> <span class=time_text>01:22 PM</span>