[Achievements] Shadowknight Tree

[Xanoth]

By the lack of much real discussion im sure im not the only one underwhelmed by the EoF offering.anyway from playing around a little this is my views on a few of them, bearing in mind i only really care about getting more performance while raiding, and i rarely need to tank anything other than adds.<strong>HATE</strong>First ability seems kinda pointless unless you need help holding agro from about 50 weak mobs. turning a 97 threat increase when hit into a 121 threat increase isn't much use for an orange single x4 encounter tbh. worth the 5 points for heroic content when you get to have more fun with extra mobs.Resist reduction on promice and sacrilege might be useful now, but when they alter agression to improve resists im not sure if they are worth the points, or if they even help now, i had 3 points in promice for about a week, changed yesterday to have none and noticed no difference all through MMIS.improved rescue... not much use other than to help move up the hate tree after dying, or if your slacking =/Slam enhancement is pretty handy, simple % improvement to both of its components, nothing bad to say, if it appeals to you, spend some points <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />death march... useful i gues to cycle it sooner, but its still a pig to proc on raids, does awesome things, but for the most part its just a 10s buff once every 3 minutes. with 5 points on this AA, end ability of str from crusader tree and ring of four winds, its nealy a 2 min recast.<strong>REAVING</strong>Twisted aura improvement is pretty good tbh, i do find this proc contributes quite a bit to my overall DPS.Leach Touch isn't as bad as i first thought, when bad things happen on raids and your MT takes a nap mid fight, chances are you'll want agro fast and may not be on full health. hadding a heal to pestilent touch kinda covers both in one. limited use of course.[expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] is with doom judgement recast? assuming thats a PVP thing and will ignore it.the others i guess spea for themselves, if you want healing boosts, spend your points.not sure on mana seive, wish i had a mana regen parse to see how much it contributes, but i wouldn't have thought it gives much compared to regular mana stone, hearts, scints etc...I tried out Reaver for some time and posted my findings and thoughts on that in another thread, but to sum up. its pretty good for solo/small group, but quite weak for raiding as it scales badly and requires a lot of constant casting if in combat.<strong>DECAY</strong>Improved debuffs seems to be more aimed at raiding really, as there is a limit to how much you can debuff a mob as far as i know, so chances are the full benefit of these improvements is only going to be seen on well buffed mobs such as raid targets.STA siphon is bugged and doesn't do what it says... didn't in beta and doesn't now. at rank 5 it should be 100% of the STR value (73 at master), its not, its 57. again dont think its that useful for he debuff, but extra hp is always nice.mortal embrace, no commentdespoil, 3 sec reduction per point, 15s at rank 5. considering its a 2 minute recast spell i dont think 15s is going to make or break anything. if you already have recast reduction its going to give more of a benefit. for me, i dont think its worth spending points elsewhere to get.. mebies a fwe moer raids with unspent points will give me some insight.Siphon Armorment... never found it that useful really due to deminishing returns. if you can self buff over 60% mit, you probably won't get much from it.pools of blood, not sure 1.2k unconsious HP might be useful if you fell over from an AE, but if your tanking when you hit purple chance are you need a rez, not a bigging bleed pool. i'd have rather seen a death prevention ability than this in all honesty. still probably has its uses._____________________________________________ ___________________anyway i respeced yesterday and only spent 15 points, leaving 33 unspent, and tbh all the way through MMIS i didn't even feel i was missing out. tempted to pick up the hate abilities so it's more of an option. but the only hate i realy feel i'd like help with is single target (for those situations when using death march isn't a great idea). and i really don't feel much of this tree helps with that.

[Norrsken]

<DIV>As a primarily solo sk, I must say that the reaving line is rather nice. ITs also really nice in PuGs with lazy healers, something I seem to end up in all the time.</DIV> <DIV>The HT has switched from being a "Oh crap, it needs to die FAST" skill to just be a heal with some damage on it. That is, I use it way more often now.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Other than that, not really anything I think I'd notice. </DIV>

[Kurindor_Mythecnea]

Kinda' not exactly in line with this thread, but I was curious what the final modifier is for maxing out the last item of the Crusader Strength Achievement Line (Avenging Invigoration - speed of recovery and casting timer increasement). <span>:smileywink:</span><div></div>

[SonnyA]

<div><blockquote><hr><blockquote>Xanoth wrote:death march... useful i gues to cycle it sooner, but its still a pig to proc on raids, does awesome things, but for the most part its just a 10s buff once every 3 minutes. with 5 points on this AA, end ability of str from crusader tree and ring of four winds, its nealy a 2 min recast.</blockquote><hr></blockquote>Death March procs on cast and again when a mob dies. Its usefullness is the snap aggro. Best aggro spell ingame. Click DM and *BAM* all mobs are on you.Not great when you're not MT, but if you're MT it's the best. Great skill</div>

[Eluzay]

<div><blockquote><hr>roxer2b wrote:<div>As a primarily solo sk, I must say that the reaving line is rather nice. ITs also really nice in PuGs with lazy healers, something I seem to end up in all the time.</div> <div>The HT has switched from being a "Oh crap, it needs to die FAST" skill to just be a heal with some damage on it. That is, I use it way more often now.</div> <div> </div> <div>Other than that, not really anything I think I'd notice. </div><hr></blockquote>/agree but I just want to point out that you add up a lot of inconsequential things and you get something pretty nice.I find from parsing my heals/damage that the reaving line both increase my dps and my healing quite a bit.  healing is obvious but dps goes up because you are more diligent with passing out your dot's nad touches ... to get the heal effects you end up doing more damage.  In pvp I think this is huge because a dot that does 127 and heals me for 50ish per tick is essentially a 177 damge dot.the reaving line is NOT sexy at all, but very functional, makes us significantly tougher in my opinion (on a pvp server)... and yes doom judgement is HUGE in pvp.</div>

[AziBam]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Xietsu wrote:<BR>Kinda' not exactly in line with this thread, but I was curious what the final modifier is for maxing out the last item of the Crusader Strength Achievement Line (Avenging Invigoration - speed of recovery and casting timer increasement). <SPAN>:smileywink:</SPAN><BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>It starts and ends at 10%.  The final line in each of the crusader trees require 8 points just to get and don't upgrade. 

[Kurindor_Mythecnea]

[expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] NOOOO THAT COMPLETELY RUINED MY PLAN!!! =[lol that would be awesome if it went to 80%....but even if it just upgraded to something like 50 or 60% id totally f****INGGN USE IT!!<div></div>

[Xanoth]

that would be a "little" overpowered... perminent 80% spell haste and improved recast? 10% is pretty nice, and i do miss it... <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Just wish the Shadowknight Tree offered something that could be missed.

[SinIsLaw]

Yeah! it is nothing too big our SK tree I went down for Siphon might, thought the STA adding would be nice, well it's still bugged (pawn mentioned that he had bugged it in beta already) - It claims to siphon 100% of the STR as STA with 5pts spend in it. Seems more like 75% ... And also with the new dminishing returns it barely shows if u have +56 more stamina ... Draine Vitae is sweet, but it is sad that this would become useless if u get ur hands on 5 Set items ...A heal to our HT, well nothing really big ... but I think it can be considered as nice to have as most of the other options are lame...DM & DV timer reductions are nice, but it costs a lot of points for little time improvement ... none the less having DM recast cut down, came in handy for me last sunday while tanking Tarniax ... I managed to use use it twice to regain aggro before he died ... Our Hate Line ... right! I hate it <span>:smileywink:</span> both Taunts are get a boost to make em harder to resist, IC as bad as it is gets a small touch up - still far to low imho - The really good Taunt boost is our Slam, which may not be used by all of us all of the time (Symbole or 2h peeps, unless ur swapping items). While I'm grinding the AAs up, and most of the times tank the instances, I'll go and toy with the Hate line ... And save my respec once the next LU is out and we have the new aggression stuff will bring us! but yeah I agree pretty much with Xanoth, our AA are nothing special The AA line seem well suited of Solo players , but has very little to offer for raiding SKs, weather one would be DPS, ST or MT  ...

[Zenosuk]

How much is the heal per rank on ruinous touch sk tree ability? if it's anything less then like 150 per rank (at the very least) it's useless, unless you solo a lot and need the extra 150 hps to live.

[Xanoth]

at rank 3 it was about ~800. iirc.

[stahlej]

I'd replace this "minor Leech Touch" for a Super Harm Touch. I'd rather do 3x the damage instead of doing a leech for about 1,3k hp.But that might just be me. I feel a bit dissapointed about the Leech Touch myself.<div></div>

[JoarAddam]

<DIV>I know what doom judgement recast is about...  The damage shields, empathic links and all that crap in Emerald Halls has got to be stripped off.  we can do that.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And I love the mortal embrace reduction...  i tried it out, have since moved away from it to concentrate on getting myself some goodness from the reaving line.  i've been trying to pick up as many recast reductions as I can get as most of it means more damage...  drain vitae is such a fast recast now, esp with str line and all that goodness...</DIV>

[Xanoth]

even in off stance with wis skill buff maxed doom judgement rarely stips anything from mobs, i use it jsut about every fight as a "incase it works", which is almost never. could just be the buff type is't what it dispells, but i dont find it useful, nor would a quicker recast help at all. once something is stripped name generally dont re-buff mid fight.

[Naelael]

I have gone down Reaver line and I like it. THough, I am very dissapointed with Leech Touch. I maxed points in it and I feel I wasted them. <div></div>

[ArmadaXeenelk]

I felt ripped in the reaving line, I really like it at first but the final ability left me disappointed... So I went down the decay line to see what it was like, and the mit leech spell is very nice (350 mit at level 70 with 5 points) although I haven't had a dying chance to see if the last ability is worth it or not.  BTW the doom judgement is part of decay line not reaving, and I went down that with 5, the mit leech 5, and the feign death recast 5.  I'm happy so far compared to reaving line, but who knows the hate line might not be much better then the reaving line and I might go back to reaving and keep decay.Overall the end abilities i've tested (reaving & decay) don't seem very useful....I'd rather see a line that helps me deal more dmg (HATE) because thats the route I went in the crusader lines... and it feels interrupted with the Shadowknight line.  I'd also like an end ability that gives us a personal feign death similar to a monks where we can stay on the ground for a while....but i'm just dreaming again <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div>

[Norrsken]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> ArmadaXeenelk wrote:<BR>I felt ripped in the reaving line, I really like it at first but the final ability left me disappointed... So I went down the decay line to see what it was like, and the mit leech spell is very nice (350 mit at level 70 with 5 points) although I haven't had a dying chance to see if the last ability is worth it or not.  BTW the doom judgement is part of decay line not reaving, and I went down that with 5, the mit leech 5, and the feign death recast 5.  I'm happy so far compared to reaving line, but who knows the hate line might not be much better then the reaving line and I might go back to reaving and keep decay.<BR><BR>Overall the end abilities i've tested (reaving & decay) don't seem very useful....<BR>I'd rather see a line that helps me deal more dmg (HATE) because thats the route I went in the crusader lines... and it feels interrupted with the Shadowknight line. <BR><BR>I'd also like an end ability that gives us a personal feign death similar to a monks where we can stay on the ground for a while....<BR><BR>but i'm just dreaming again <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>As a tank, that end ability in decay is utter rubbish. Every second I am immobilized is a second I am a bad tank. Being unconsious is bad. Not to mention, in a group with healers, if you go unconcious as a sk, the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] hit the fan hard. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Having 1k hitpoints lying down aint gonna help. This ability needs to be changed.</P> <P>Swap it out for an FD, or a frekkin mount spell that scales with level. (HAlf the other classes got runspeed, why didnt the crusaders get a freggin horse?!)</P>

[Xanoth]

well i finally spent my points and am relativly happy.basic SK selection looks like a n, from siphon hate working clockwise to siphon armorment. don't think its ideal but i find it more useful than i did the reaver line. will porbably be refined at some point, respecs are seporate so only costs 1s for my next one.

[Nocifer Deathblade]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> stahlej wrote:<BR>I'd replace this "minor Leech Touch" for a Super Harm Touch. I'd rather do 3x the damage instead of doing a leech for about 1,3k hp.<BR><BR>But that might just be me. I feel a bit dissapointed about the Leech Touch myself.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Aye, I would like to see 25% to 35% damage increaser to HT instead of converting it to leech touch. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Or make HT recast to go faster..  3x is far fetched tho considering the fact that lot of class EOF AAs usually go up to 35% to any damage modifier for spells.

[Saeldar]

<DIV>I really like the reaving line so far. I have maxed twisted aura, putric coil, infernal blessing, drain vitae and reaver.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>While each ability on it's own isn't that great...they're all pretty good, but nothing spectacular. They add up to a lot more healing in the end. It's definitly apparent when playing.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Leech Touch is useless I think...even if you were to use it everytime it's up, 1300 heal every 15 mins is not that great...and that's using it every 15 mins. If you keep it for emergency, then it's become even more situational...and 1300 will simply not be enough.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I think leech touch should be on it's own timer....1300dmg/1300 heal every 5 mins when maxed. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Margen]

I agree with the leach touch ability, 5 points for a 1300 hp heal every 15 minutes isn't very good.  Think it would have been much more useful with a say 10pct increase in damage for each point you spend.  Since its a 15 minute timer, really wouldn't be over powered, but would be a nice dps boost on boss mobs (which is where I usually save it for on raids).

[morningmists]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> roxer2b wrote:<BR> <BR> <P><BR>As a tank, that end ability in decay is utter rubbish. Every second I am immobilized is a second I am a bad tank. Being unconsious is bad. Not to mention, in a group with healers, if you go unconcious as a sk, the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] hit the fan hard. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Having 1k hitpoints lying down aint gonna help. This ability needs to be changed.</P> <P>Swap it out for an FD, or a frekkin mount spell that scales with level. (HAlf the other classes got runspeed, why didnt the crusaders get a freggin horse?!)</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>You do realize that if you were unconscious and only still unconscious due to that 1200 hp, you would otherwise just be dead without it? If you took a hit for 500 more than you had hp, you'd just be dead. Now you won't.</P> <P>Does the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] hit the fan less when you are dead, than it does when you are unconscious?  You still have your buffs on, all your power, no res effects, and just need healed enough to stand back up and fight, how is that worse than dead?</P> <P>YES, i totally agree, a DEATHPEACE aa would have been FAR more desireable, but bloodpool isn't nearly as useless as you make it out to be<BR></P>

[Norrsken]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> morningmists wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> roxer2b wrote:<BR> <BR> <P><BR>As a tank, that end ability in decay is utter rubbish. Every second I am immobilized is a second I am a bad tank. Being unconsious is bad. Not to mention, in a group with healers, if you go unconcious as a sk, the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] hit the fan hard. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Having 1k hitpoints lying down aint gonna help. This ability needs to be changed.</P> <P>Swap it out for an FD, or a frekkin mount spell that scales with level. (HAlf the other classes got runspeed, why didnt the crusaders get a freggin horse?!)</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>You do realize that if you were unconscious and only still unconscious due to that 1200 hp, you would otherwise just be dead without it? If you took a hit for 500 more than you had hp, you'd just be dead. Now you won't.</P> <P>Does the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] hit the fan less when you are dead, than it does when you are unconscious?  You still have your buffs on, all your power, no res effects, and just need healed enough to stand back up and fight, how is that worse than dead?</P> <P>YES, i totally agree, a DEATHPEACE aa would have been FAR more desireable, but bloodpool isn't nearly as useless as you make it out to be<BR></P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Thing is, when you die as a tank, or go unconcious, you stop doing your job and start being a crap tank. It doesnt hit the fan any less with that skill or without. Thats why its useless. It makes no difference, and in a good group, the fan should be left untouched, as would this ability. Its a waste of the aa it uses and the spot of a skill it currently resides in. Pretty much anything would be better than that skill.

[SinIsLaw]

Yeah! beeing unconscious doesn't mean much! You solo and hit ur "extended bloodpool"  - great now I'm unconscious and the mob keeps smacking more on me until I'm dead !!! In a group or raid as tank it's the same, u loose the ability to taunt or dps ... and u still have the mobs hitting down on u, and while peeps mass spamm u for heals aggro may flipp ... Take Tarniax for example, NE hits u unconcious, healers try and heal u up at the mem whipe ... ups nothing i can do while unconscious... Tarniax plays with the healers ...So being unconscious doesn't really do anything good for soloing or grouping, even on a raid whipe, being unconscious doesn't take u off the hate list of an mob  <div></div>