Sk;'s and their tanking role

[Mono]

<DIV>Ok as someone who's in a raid guild and recently had or am having the discussion about Sk's Main tanking i'd like to ask the sk community what you see as your role in a raid?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I know little about sk's so can't comment but i don't feel comfortable with an sk Main tanking do you? </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Rylight]

depends who the sk is. many sk's raid,  some do it very strongly ,  others take more effort. the point is that it can be done. now im not saying take one over a guardian or zerker,  then agian I dont raid much myself. I'm sure a few of the raid sk's well comment on this board soon, so I'll leave it to them to give you the details. but I know of a few who MT in raids all the time. <div></div>

[bobevans1981]

Well, I can tank raids, have done labs easily with only 4 healers (pre-expansion lol), but I do dps mostly, have almost a completely different set of gear, and in the right group, will parse within the top 5 for the whole zone.  In this expansion, i get used alot for mit buffing, due to the new caps.  Also will pick up mobs if the mt and ma die, but that doesn't happen often.  So to answer the question, until an sk has alot of the new exp gear, i'm not sure if i'd have one mt, but hey, who knows. <div></div>

[MrDiz]

Well all tanks are having 'issues' right now but I can tell you from experience that the SK in our guild is a great tank. He is sometimes the add tank, and almost always the "ohshiiiitt!!!!!!!!!!!" tank (the tank that takes over when MT is hit 15 times for 20% of his hp all with 0.6 seconds so no healer can possibly heal him - from some crappy trash mob). When crap hits the fan he seems to get aggro and hold his own brilliantly until we can get our collective butts in gear. Can't ask more from any tank realy. Now his gear is mot bad, but neither is it awesome by raid guild standard so id say SKs can tank well. But of course it may also be the player.... or both.

[Norrsken]

I'd say sks can tank pretty well on most raids. gnarkill and chimpnoodle seems to do a fari job at it at least, hehe. And the few occasions I've managed to raid I've ended up MT (due to people having played with me before or just levels). And I have no issues with aggro. Or had. Havent tanked much raids since EoF, apart from the silly spider in nek, and that was a low low green. doesnt count. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />And as far as dps, as long as there are several mobs, I'll be fair dps, and if you put me in the caster group, DM is gonna rock their world.<div></div>

[Xanoth]

Personally i think our class can tank just fine, with the new deminishing returns making a lot of what warriors have over us in terms of mitigation less meaningful. We Also now have despoil which gives a nice mit boost, and siphon armorment, which is just a more selfish version of pledge <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Given the right MT group setup for a SK, i doubt there is much a SK would strugle to tank

[Boli32]

Currantly our guild is using a SK MT right now  and so far they are tanking fine... the only issue I see is 'snap agro' on the pull it is quite common to see the healers (me) get agro if we need to heal. meaning we often have to wait untill the tank is well into the oranage before throwing our first heal. (only debuffing if we have them)This has been compounded a lot recently with the taunts being resisted a lot.<div></div>

[Nocifer Deathblade]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> <BR>This has been compounded a lot recently with the taunts being resisted a lot.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Can be solved by investing in resist reduction taunts from EOF AA line..</P> <P>Anyway, I find it easier to tank now than pre-EOF as a casual SK cuz mitigation is still meaningful at my level.  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR></P><p>Message Edited by Nocifer Deathblade on <span class=date_text>12-01-2006</span> <span class=time_text>06:29 AM</span>

[Nocifer Deathblade]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Xanoth wrote:<BR>Personally i think our class can tank just fine, with the new deminishing returns making a lot of what warriors have over us in terms of mitigation less meaningful. We Also now have despoil which gives a nice mit boost, and siphon armorment, which is just a more selfish version of pledge <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR><BR>Given the right MT group setup for a SK, i doubt there is much a SK would strugle to tank<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Guardians+Zerkers would do better if they switch to cloth armor to get their avoidance to sky-high then our Pledge on them and their self-mitigation buffs will become more meaningful once again while they retain super-high avoidance.  Sad but true. That's so wracked. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Norrsken]

<div><blockquote><hr>Nocifer Deathblade wrote:<div></div> <blockquote> <hr> Xanoth wrote:Personally i think our class can tank just fine, with the new deminishing returns making a lot of what warriors have over us in terms of mitigation less meaningful. We Also now have despoil which gives a nice mit boost, and siphon armorment, which is just a more selfish version of pledge <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Given the right MT group setup for a SK, i doubt there is much a SK would strugle to tank <hr> </blockquote>Guardians+Zerkers would do better if they switch to cloth armor to get their avoidance to sky-high then our Pledge on them and their self-mitigation buffs will become more meaningful once again while they retain super-high avoidance.  Sad but true. That's so wracked. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><hr></blockquote>We will probably see a fix to that though. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div>

[CHIMPNOODLE.]

<DIV>SKs are well equipped for the MT role, even more so if geared and decked out with the right AAs and God abilities now.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If you have an upgraded and experienced SK MT, you won't notice the difference result wise from Guards, Zerkers or SKs.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Snap aggro wise, SKs have the strongest in game at the moment actually. If healers are having to wait before healing, then the tanks taunts are not upgraded...or he is leading with his single target taunts (which have less upfront hate...then hate over time). He's also definitely not using his Deathmarch early, as pretty much nothing short of lead fuzion or decapitate attacks will pull aggro off.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>We almost always use SKs as MT for guild raids, with an up and comer Zerker having a go lately as well. For our raid alliance, we usually use a Guard MT for most mobs...with SK as second tank or MT, depending on the mobs and who we think might be best suited for it (Paladin at times as well, though she has been MIA for a bit). Using the Guard MT (and he does do a great job) is also as much a fact that he was the longer standing established MT as well, rather than class preference.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>What I have noticed though is that a lot of SKs focus on their dammage dealing, or back roles first...and gear/spec up and play accordingly. When thrown into MT positions, a lot of em get ripped apart or have aggro ctrl problems. They upgrade the big hit masters before the defensive stance master, the pestillent touch before the venemous slam etc.....so unless completely upgraded, a lot are less equipped for the role.</DIV>

[AziBam]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> mononoko wrote:<BR> <DIV>Ok as someone who's in a raid guild and recently had or am having the discussion about Sk's Main tanking i'd like to ask the sk community what you see as your role in a raid?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I know little about sk's so can't comment but i don't feel comfortable with an sk Main tanking do you? </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>You don't feel comfortable with an SK main tanking based upon.....?  Have you actually tried it?  Get your SK (I gather that the sk in question isn't you but another guildmate) geared comparably to whatever warrior you are comparing him to and then test it out.  Don't be hung up on old stereotypes.  Much has changed with all the classes bringing some down a bit and others up some.  Some tanks classes used to have the deck stacked in their favor.  Take a look at the other fighter forums and see some of the complaints going on.  The playing field is much closer to even now than it used to be.      </P> <P>As someone noted earlier read posts from Chimpnoodle ^^ see above post  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Gnarkill and Sarasoon as they all regularly MT raids.  That was before the changes with EoF where SKs rec'd some tankin love from the Devs too in terms of hate and mitigation.  I personally have only tanked a few pick up raids but they went fine (my guild is VERY small and all friends in RL.)  I have also easily grabbed hold of aggro and finished out the fights when I was off tanking and the MT went down in other raids.  </P>

[Inzipid]

<div></div>I can say as an SK (a young one, granted) that I have always prioritized taunt and debuff arts/spell upgrades followed by taps.  Buffs and dd/dots came after.  I am a competent tank in any PUG and have 'raid' tanked some T4 and T5 (epicx2) content with our guild.  Not high end stuff but I still had a positive result.I can say as an Alchemist, MOST SKs come to me for dd and dot upgrades.  Same goes for stances, offense > defense by a wide margin.  I could see these SKs getting into trouble in groups that required a little more than just cycling taunts.  Maybe the perception that we are weak tanks comes from PUGs with dps - minded SKs.  There are alot of them, imo, which would really turn people off.  Especially now that resists are up.  AppIV taunts won't cut it.I know I am preaching to the choir, but set up is everything.<div></div>

[Kryptonix]

To me it doesnt matter really what role I play. -DPS Role. If the conditions are right, meaning a group of mobs, I can parse at the top 5 for that encounter. If I am stuck in the mage group, I can parse top 5 zone wide. It is actually quite easy to parse that high if you have the right group set up and upgraded spells and CAs. <div></div>-MT Role. I havent MTed that much tbh. But the Times I have MTed or somehow ganked agro and FD was down, I can hold my own very well. Pop a stun and switch 2 pieces of gear out, pop our other stun and switch the rest out. I have Despoil (our mitigation tap) always running as soon as it is up add in the stance switch. I can become a very very formidable tank. Holding hate isnt a problem. Like someone already said, our snap agro has to be up there with guards. We have 4 Rescues: Rescue, HT, Death March, and FD. Snap agro is no problem now.-MA/OT Role. Because of the 4 rescues, I can have agro stick to me like white on rice. If we get adds, AEs should make them stick pretty good. AEs dont work pop Death March and we are fine.I dont really know about the other SKs in the community, but I have said before that I carry with me 2-3 sets of armor. I have a full tank set, a full DPS set, and a few other pieces to fill in gaps I need (more resists, more mitigation, more dps). In raids, if I end up as third tank, I keep my DPS gear on until the MT falls and OT grabs agro. If MT falls I switch to full tank gear. If your guild wants to see how truly powerful an SK can be, outfit your SK with some good gear and upgrade his spells. Take him to HoS and make him tank the 1st 2 nameds (Gnorbl and that other one with the undead drogs). With Despoil he should be able to get WAAY more mit and last longer than a gaurd. For the gnorbl encounter, tell him not to pop his Despoil until a few of his little agro adds are gone. Pop it while his agro adds are up and the majority of the spell hits them, youll lose out on some valuable mitigation when those adds die.

[Margen]

<DIV>I've MT when our warrior tanks aren't present, and I can do the job.  Since the changes in some of our spells (despoil and Death March), we can compete with warriors in mitigation and hate.  They still have an edge in mitigation, but its not as big as it used to be and IMO now is fairly well balanced.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>We are really good as the ST role now, we can shine with snap agro and grab the mob(s) if one gets away from the MT, or if the MT bites the dust.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>DPS - Really depends on the group your in, if you are in a group that doens't buff your str/int very much you will lose some dps there (since the cap on stats is so high now), plus it helps if you are in a group with haste/DPS mode.  I usually am grouped with a illosinist, so I am sitting at 88plus haste, but I really shine when I have dirge or inquisator in my group, then I can make the top 5.  Plus wizard/warlock procs can help also.</DIV>