Shadowknight - Good end game tank ?

[Xtrik]

<DIV>I have a lvl 41 Shadowknight that I parked a while ago to play another character. I have not been following the Shadowknight class and was woundering how it was doing... (been getting any love)...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I am interested in having a tank that at 70 will be a good tank - high mitigation and high ergo, a tank that for example could lead a raid. Also I would like to solo well. I have heard, for example, Berserkers being able to solo Heroic mobs easily, can a Shadowknight do as well? Is a Guardian the best tank there is?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The main question is, when I reach 70 will I be satisfied with a Shadowknight ?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thanks for your insight :smileywink:</DIV>

[Beldin_]

<DIV>I can only talk about Heroic and Solo content, since i'm not a raid fan .. but for that SK is agreat tank in my opinion, and also a very good solo char. There are not much classes i didn't played a while till now .. and SK is really my absolute favorite now since i solo a lot or play mostly in small groups <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>For raiding .. there are also a lot SKs here who do the Raid-MT .. however the problem is to get into a raidforce as MT if you're not the person who builds i think.</DIV>

[gnarkill]

Yes we are...and after EoF come out all SKs should be able to do what some of us have already been doing =)<div></div>

[MaCloud1032]

After EoF we will be much better at tanking depending on what tree line you go down.  As of right now we are not that great as a raid tank we make a better MA than a MT at least in my opinion anyway.  As for solo content man we are kings there is not much out there that we cant solo other than the epics (iam still working on that one ill find one soon enough)

[CHIMPNOODLE.]

<P>Level 70 SKs are great tanks...high Mit, good power, nice dammage, good resists...the whole package. You will also solo great and be perfectly fine to lead raids. Shadowknights have no problems soloing heroics and our survivability is actually  higher than other plate tanks, thanks in large part to FD and Evac as well...let's us push it a bit more as we have a safer fall back. Guardian is not the best tank there is.</P> <P> </P> <P>At 70 you will be satisfied as SK, if the questions you asked sum up what will satisfy you. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P>

[standupwookie]

FD and Evac are nice, but basing a tank's performance on escape options just isnt a good idea.  A guardian and a zerker would probably die when we either FD and Evac...so thats just some repair costs.Zerkers and guardians tank far better than SKs on almost every category.  SKs can still tank, they just have to mash more buttons faster than those other two classes.The Double Attack AA for warriors really messed things up a bit.  With EOF, it looks like SKs will get a LOT of good things.  But I will say this, if you are in a group and there is either a Zerker or a Guardian as well, they will tank.  People want them to tank.  That means you are basically DPS and poor DPS at that.That seems to be the problem on raids as well.  You wont get the choice buffs, so you are on your own in the HP department.  Makes it much more difficult to survive AEs, though it can still be done.A Beserker solos just as well as we do, if not better.  Roll one up sometime, you will be surprised at the differnece.

[CHIMPNOODLE.]

<DIV>FD and Evac are just part of the reason for SK's edge in survivability.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>" But I will say this, if you are in a group and there is either a Zerker or a Guardian as well, they will tank.  People want them to tank.  That means you are basically DPS and poor DPS at that.<BR><BR>That seems to be the problem on raids as well.  You wont get the choice buffs, so you are on your own in the HP department.  Makes it much more difficult to survive AEs, though it can still be done."</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This is actually does not play out in game. It completely depends on how you play and gear your toon, as well as the mentality of the guilds you join. Group and raid wise. Groups and raids usually go with the best equipped...highest mitigation, avoidance, resists and HP first, and reputation on the higher end...if that's you...then the others get the secondary roles (regardless of their class).</DIV>

[Boke]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> standupwookie wrote:<BR>FD and Evac are nice, but basing a tank's performance on escape options just isnt a good idea.  A guardian and a zerker would probably die when we either FD and Evac...so thats just some repair costs.<BR><BR>Zerkers and guardians tank far better than SKs on almost every category.  SKs can still tank, they just have to mash more buttons faster than those other two classes.<BR><BR>The Double Attack AA for warriors really messed things up a bit.  With EOF, it looks like SKs will get a LOT of good things.  But I will say this, if you are in a group and there is either a Zerker or a Guardian as well, they will tank.  People want them to tank.  That means you are basically DPS and poor DPS at that.<BR><BR>That seems to be the problem on raids as well.  You wont get the choice buffs, so you are on your own in the HP department.  Makes it much more difficult to survive AEs, though it can still be done.<BR><BR>A Beserker solos just as well as we do, if not better.  Roll one up sometime, you will be surprised at the differnece.<BR><BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>sk's have awesome dps, and no if a xegonite zerker joins my group ill be asked to mt since ill have 1.5k+ mit. Apparently you still havent figured out ur class, if you cant dps/tank better than a xegonite zerker either, you have crappy gear or app1 ftw? <BR></DIV>

[Antryg Mistrose]

xegonite zerker = strawman.Shadowknights do not CURRENTLY have the tanking tools of Guardians and Berserkers.It sounds like when/If unbroken changes from Beta make it live we might (but that will depend on what the warriors are getting).<div></div>

[gnarkill]

<div><blockquote><hr>Antryg Mistrose wrote:xegonite zerker = strawman.<b>Shadowknights do not CURRENTLY have the tanking tools of Guardians and Berserkers.</b>It sounds like when/If unbroken changes from Beta make it live we might (but that will depend on what the warriors are getting).<div></div><hr></blockquote>If that is true why have I been tanking everything thing in the game (yes every epic mob you can think of) except Chel Drak since July? And parsing 1k+ as the MT? We can do it..EoF just made it easier</div>

[Lord Hackenslash]

<P>well i can say i have played a 70 zerker and a 70 sk, the sk is by far my favorite.</P> <P>as raid tanks i think zerkers have it a bit easier but shadowknights are not far behind, things get more even in the expansion. i have beta tested both and think the shadowknight is far more interesting. that said, the shadowknight solos far better than a zerker  where the zerker has a short amount of time to complete his kill or he loses the fight a SK can manage extended fights with adds and still come out on top. mothe characters i have played are similarly geared up, in fact the zerker has an edge but the sk truly wins for solo content. either way both are good raid tanks just hard to get people to let an sk tank cause we have a bad (and undeserved) rep as a mediacre tank.</P>

[Beldin_]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> standupwookie wrote:<BR><BR>A Beserker solos just as well as we do, if not better.  Roll one up sometime, you will be surprised at the differnece.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Ähmm.. sorry .. but LOOOL :smileytongue: </P> <P>There is not much more i can say to that .. yeah .. i know.. Zerker do 2k DPS all the time .. can onehit EPics .. have 100% miti and 100k taunts .... but still .. as a little farmer-soul that i am .. i still kill 24 gazers on Gazer Isle while all these üb0r Zerkers have fun with just 8 .. or if they are really good maybe 16 of them <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR></P>

[fallingsn]

<DIV>I got some of the best gear in the game.  I also MT for the largest guild on my server.  I won't disagree with you that a Bezerker can out Tank us.  That is mostly true.  But really... at T7 fully fabled with full masters and 50AA points to invest in Hate Management only a single Zerker in similar gear that I know of can tank better.  ARe they better?  well yes... they were created that way.  Are they THAT much better?... no...   I tank deathtoll with no probs and that is the hardest zone in the game.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>On another note.  When the Raid group is slightly light on healers I am often the main tank rather than our Zerker because of all my life taps.  Hate AAs, plus Lifetaps, allow the healers a little breathing room as I can normally heal myself even against epics to give the healers a bit of a margin for error.  (only when the raid group may be slightly light on healers that is)  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>With EOF we will have even more options to Raid setup our SKs.  As for guardians.  They make good tanks but really our level 70 guardian is a permanent off-tank rather than the main tank due to buffing bonuses in that setup.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>That being said a similarly equiped Bezerker all things being even is a better main tank overall.  But not by that much.  There is nothing in da game that our Berzerker can raid tank that I cannot.  We often toss a coin at the begining of a raid or swap back and forth when we are chain raiding to decide really.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>On a side note if you want to DPS you have to have a TOTALLY different setup. IF  You have to gear to reach the 510 INT cap you can easily DPS with the best of them.  I'm always near the top of the DPS ladder near the casters when I'm in DPS mode.  YOu give up some MIT, and REsists and such but then again if I'm in DPS mode I'm not tanking and can easily forego some of the other stats in return for max INT.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also remember to DPS you want MAX INT setup at 510 and  plus 448 in the INT AAs plus a 2 hander and 448 in STA AAs for Max Melee crit... OR... AGI AA for the damage boost given by trample line and horse trample.   Your choice... you can't have them all even with 50 AAs.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>EOF... well too early to tell before I have had a chance to parse but... there are some definitely interesting options there.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[DebasedMora]

all ihear are the guard complanign about being nerfed whit eof so we wont get picked last for dodge ball any more mabey<div></div>

[rabid.pooh]

<DIV>Okay, for group tanking, I'll take the Pepsi challenge vs any plate tank out there.  I pull more mobs, I heal more, I keep better hate, and I move my group though the zones faster.  When I enter a group and a zerker or guard are in that group, I'm asked to tank (I tend to only group with guildies, so people know me).  If a zerker hits his holy trio I just send out the march to counter it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Fallingsnow is 100% right when it comes to choosing your DPS gear, if your sitting there DPS'n in relic gear your going to lack.   DPS is all about what gear your putting on, a well played zerker also has a completely different config for DPS then for tanking.   You need to think outside of the box when it comes to doing damage, heck I use T5 pants, I have yet to find a better pair of pants for DPS then the Underworld Leggings from SOTL.  510int+ is a must, and any kind of spell proc item/buff you can get on you.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Right now I switch MT roles between me and a Zerker, our guild recently had a split and a lot of nights we have no hate buffage, so it's all raw hate from the both of us.  If the zerker wants he can pull agro from me, if I want I can pull the agro from the zerker, after that it's rare for me to loose agro (except if I'm stiffled from the start of the fight).  Usually I will loose hate to the zerker if he drops his Holy Trio before I death march, however we coordinate these abilities on teamspeak.  I'll pull agro from him constantly if I go all out dps, no matter what he does, and I never death march.  We're both on the same gear level.  We both die in the spots, and really he has no clear advantage over me.  When MT'ing the one thing I try to maximize while having a high mitigation is my int, int = damage = hate, if you have no hate the raid is wiped.  Now I will also qualify this tanking without a hate buffer, the new guild is not where the old guild was at all, we have about a group and some change of people who are decked with fabled and masters, and the rest of the raid is adept 3ish with smatterings of t7 fabled.  If we pass 10k dps on a t7 raid it's a good night :p.  Low healer turnout nights, I'll usually tank.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Anywho, the point I'm trying to make is SKs are good tanks, and with the changes we see coming up via spells/stances and EoF, I really think that other classes may actually start calling out for the SKs to be nerfed.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>my 2bits</DIV>

[Kroms]

<DIV> <P>"Ähmm.. sorry .. but LOOOL <IMG height=16 src="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif" width=16 border=0> </P> <P>There is not much more i can say to that .. yeah .. i know.. Zerker do 2k DPS all the time .. can onehit EPics .. have 100% miti and 100k taunts .... but still .. as a little farmer-soul that i am .. i still kill 24 gazers on Gazer Isle while all these üb0r Zerkers have fun with just 8 .. or if they are really good maybe 16 of them <IMG height=16 src="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif" width=16 border=0>"</P> <P> </P> <P>Wow respond like you got a brain not some babbling baboon.<BR></P></DIV>

[Mistmoore-Milaga]

I think I am going to copy and paste this into all threads started about this from now on.A good tank is made up of a combination of gear, experience with the zone/encounter, skill with their class and the game, and the wisdom to know how to apply their experience, skill and the correct gear to play their class to compliment their group. You can find at least one of each of the fighter classes who can tank better than 99% of all the other fighters in the game. Therefore unless you think you are in the top 1% of all fighters, you are wasting energy worrying about your class when it is such a small part of the tanking equation.<div></div>

[Kryptonix]

I see SKs as the best solo tanks and the best group tanks. We can heal ourselves extremely well so that greatly increases our survivability. Our lifetaps also produce a nice amount of hate. We have 4 rescues so our snap agro is starting to become extremely good. When it comes to raid. I am gonna say I dont know. I say this because it depends on so much more than just player skill. It depends on group and raid set up. If you dont have the right MT group no plate tank will be very good. If your 3 other groups arent set up right youll end up going no where. You can be the best player in EQ2 but if you dont have a good raid set up, you are gonna suck. That being said, if you want to be able to MT in a raid as an SK. You are gonna need to build a reputation. A very good reputation that says you know what you are doing. There are quite a few SKs that MT MA and OT. So it is very possible.With EoF coming out. SKs will become a more viable tank option. We will be getting better hate with our new AAs. With the addition of adornments and tinkering we would be able to get a higher HP pool for tanking AND well be able to get some awesome ways to greatly increase our DPS. Add the fact that our Despoil is getting an over haul, we are going to be a force to be reckoned with. Only thing is, this is all on test and beta, the devs can change a lot of things. <div></div>

[Vathranen]

What is the raid Shadowknight's secret to holding aggro? I know you've mentioned going for INT for extra DPS but surely there's more to it than that? Gear is easy - higher numbers = better gear, just like taunt upgrades are obvious. I have master 1 on the two normal taunts and Caress, I know about Death March, but I still can't hold aggro off very many people. Granted my gear sucks hard, but I'm talking about holding aggro more than mitigating damage. Without amends or a significant auto taunt, how do you do it?<div></div>

[Boke]

<DIV>dirge,coercer,assassin,swashy ftw :smileytongue:</DIV>

[Kryptonix]

Good gear and more INT helps a lot mroe then most people give credit for. We arent defensive tanks like Paladins nor do we have the pure taunting power Gaurdians do. We are offensive tanks. We need a good amount of DPS to really hold down agro. Try altering your pull method a little. Always have Blessing up before a pull, makes you live longer and generates hate for you. Use HOs. If you arent using them then you need to start. The HO starter is on the same timer as Pariah's Brand and our single target taunt. So you can cycle through them as soon as one of them is up. For group encounters keep your AEs up. Cast them as soon as possible. I prefer casting Misery before Circle, but either one is fine jus tmake sure you cast them as soon as they are up. Remember to pause for a second before a string of skills. Like, after going through an HO chain, pause for a second before using another skill. This give a chance for auto attack to land. Cast anger and Coil in succession then pause for a second for that auto attack. Its really important to remember that we are not Warriors, so dont try and play like one. If you are using a method of pulling and it isnt working, switch it up a bit. Our versatility allows us to be different. And we have 4 rescue buttons. Dont be afraid to use them. Casting 1 of them really should be enough to hold agro if an add or a group of adds crashes the party. If you want to add Tap Veins into the mix thats 5 rescue buttons. A good thing to note is when you FD someone make sure to tell them to stay down for at least 5 seconds so you can establish your position on the hate list. Hate is also a group thing. Wtih that being said, there will be times where you will lose agro. Just how the game works. Every now and then you will be in a group with an over zealous dps class or a brawler class that forgot to turn off his or her hate stance. Remember you are the tank in the group, this makes you a leader whether you or they like it or not. Establish yourself and make it known how we work. Tell them that we do not work like a Warrior, give us a few ticks before really going all out. I know it saounds a little pointless, but you will be very surprised that a lot of people still have no idea how a Shadowknight works. I know theres a post somewhere about funny comments we have recieved playing our SKs. Read that post and youll see just how clueless some people are.<div></div>

[Vathranen]

Okay, so no big secret I was missing <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />It's hard to see how some classes work without having played them. I switched from Paladin to Shadowknight and it took some adjusting in playstyle. Paladin can be played afk sometimes with Amends. My pull strategy is with the abominable snare DD then the next ranged DD then taunt once in range. My aggro issues are pretty much just with one bruiser I always group with. His DPS is just so extreme I can't hold aggro from him even with tap veins and death march. Yes, he knows what his taunt buff does and he turns it off most of the time (I double check to make sure he isn't screwing with me). I think that's just an issue with the insane DPS of brawlers more than aggro issues with Shadowknights though.<div></div>

[MaCloud1032]

My personal favoret for keepin agro on the over nukers is to let them die hey as long as the healer and i are up nothing going to stop us after they die about 5 times they learn quick.  I have gotten to the point where if they die i dont care.  Ya it sounds bad but you gotta learn some how and hard knocks always works.  I play with a wizzy and a warlock that were tanks in a former server and when they went pvp they wanted to nuke crap.  Only problem is they end up nuking there selfs needless to say they have learned where there deagro buttons are.  What makes us a good tank class is the group if the group knows what is going on there is nothing that a SK can not tank trust me.

[Kryptonix]

<div><blockquote><hr>Vathranen wrote:Okay, so no big secret I was missing <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />It's hard to see how some classes work without having played them. I switched from Paladin to Shadowknight and it took some adjusting in playstyle. Paladin can be played afk sometimes with Amends. My pull strategy is with the abominable snare DD then the next ranged DD then taunt once in range. My aggro issues are pretty much just with one bruiser I always group with. His DPS is just so extreme I can't hold aggro from him even with tap veins and death march. Yes, he knows what his taunt buff does and he turns it off most of the time (I double check to make sure he isn't screwing with me). I think that's just an issue with the insane DPS of brawlers more than aggro issues with Shadowknights though.<div></div><hr></blockquote>When you pull with Snare immediately start an HO then cast one of your ranged spells. When mob gets into range use your encounter taunt to reduce his disease resists. Shield bash to add more hate while hes stunned cast pet on the mob. HO should be refreshed start it then use our wis debuff CA then finish off with single target taunt. Kick and recast Blessing. </div>

[Alevyan]

At present it is possible for ShadowKnights to fill the role of a raid tank, however it is better filled by classes like the Guardian, and ShadowKnights must work harder to fill that role on raids. It's often said that Crusaders are better at single-target tanking, though ShadowKnights with their T7 AOEs get very decent crowd control, and death March makes for an instant aggro-stick on any mob. In Dungeons and groups ShadowKnights fill the role of the tank just fine. Mastering the taunts and AOE's is imperative for ShadowKnights to maintain aggro to the best degree. Of course a good group is always important too, some DPS classes are not used to a ShadowKnights abilities, and tend to overnuke initially before allowing the SK to maintain aggro. Our heavy DoTs and debuffs make for initially slow aggro generation, but once we lock it down we truly lock it down.This however is all set to change post-EOF(if nothing gets nerfed) the caress line is set to generate more aggro, as well as the Siphon Hate skill which takes 3% of all aggro generated by the group and gives it to the SK. <div></div>

[pawnipt]

<div></div>I've decided not to read this whole thread cuz part of it was the same old crap i see in other posts.Guardians are probly the best at surviving end game content due to there save [Removed for Content], stoneskin ability (tower of stone), warriors wish from CF BP, and the new guardian AA in EOF that allows them to block <font color="#ffffcc">the next incomming attack</font>. They are also very good at single target agro, and suck [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] with aoe agro (especially out of encounter).  Havent heard much about guardians soloing, id imagine they are pretty crappy at it.Shadowknights do not get stoneskin ability's worth using against orange epic mobs (divine aura is only good for heroic junk, but can prove useful against heroic adds in epic encounters).  We also do not get stoneskin ability's.  Altho we do heal ourself and proc heals its generally more useful in heroic/solo situations. we are pretty [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] good with AOE agro (especially out of encounter), and good enough with single target agro.  I've tanked all of the instances in KoS and quite successfully too.  (i've not yet tried any contested or chel'drak) I leave that to our guild leader guardian, but thats just the way we handle things in our guild.  I feel i can solo pretty good as a SK, i farm alot and make a decent chunk of plat (SK is probly the best combination of solo/raid tank class out there)<div></div><p>Message Edited by pawnipt on <span class=date_text>11-13-2006</span> <span class=time_text>11:13 PM</span>

[fallingsn]

<DIV>Ummm... well  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I think that is all that needs to be said really.   We are good tanks.  But you guys need to practice more.  Also on raids, Damage is not king for holding agro.  RAW DPS... even at 510int you will not win out over scouts or casters and brusiers for pure burst damage. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The key is your 4 or 5 taunt saves and when you use them.  Rescue is the emergency button.  I have learned to save this for the idiot moment.  (I.E.  The chain casting nukers)  it works about 95% of the time.  They chain nuke and I hit rescue and I immediately regain agro.  Remember that Raid stupidity and burst damage does hand in hand.  If they burst there is nothing you can do about it except rescue and DM.  Tap Veins you cannot use as a rescue because you can't save it up like those others.  It's on a long timer and so you have to use it to deal AOE damage and also save your own [Removed for Content] when the healers are out of power or caught off guard by sudden burst damage from the EPIC Mob.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I usually only go the 510 int route when I'm not the MT.  When I'm MT I don't worry that much about raw damage and use hate management to hold the mob.  Timing is very important.  If you taped your options for hate agro management and a moment of stupidity occurs you will be out of options to snap the mobs attention back on you.  We have to work harder to be uber hate manager so you can't afford to be lazy and mash buttons.  This is the most obvious when I mentor down for t5s like VOX who have been buffed recently to become insanely hard and the encounters last about 15 minutes or longer.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If the stupid guy is in my own group i the raid I usually rescue then FD him.  This is normally not an issue as the MT group has mostly healers but can be useful if I see a healer is also nearly BOTH out of power and out of health.  I figure at that moment he can't heal himself or me and he's about to die so I'll FD him giving others in my group a chance to heal him and him a chance to regain a little power.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[lostsandman]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> pawnipt wrote:<BR>I've decided not to read this whole thread cuz part of it was the same old crap i see in other posts.<BR><BR>Guardians are probly the best at surviving end game content due to there save [Removed for Content], stoneskin ability (tower of stone), warriors wish from CF BP, and the new guardian AA in EOF that allows them to block all incomming attacks for 10 seconds. <FONT color=#ff3300>This is not correct. Its the next attack in the 10s not ALL attacks. The text on the abality is bit misleading </FONT>They are also very good at single target agro, and suck [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] with aoe agro (especially out of encounter).  Havent heard much about guardians soloing, id imagine they are pretty crappy at it.<BR><BR>Shadowknights do not get stoneskin ability's worth using against orange epic mobs (divine aura is only good for heroic junk, but can prove useful against heroic adds in epic encounters).  We also do not get stoneskin ability's.  Altho we do heal ourself and proc heals its generally more useful in heroic/solo situations. we are pretty [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] good with AOE agro (especially out of encounter), and good enough with single target agro.  I've tanked all of the instances in KoS and quite successfully too.  (i've not yet tried any contested or chel'drak) I leave that to our guild leader guardian, but thats just the way we handle things in our guild.  I feel i can solo pretty good as a SK, i farm alot and make a decent chunk of plat (SK is probly the best combination of solo/raid tank class out there)<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>

[Makaeleb]

<DIV>" I know about Death March, but I still can't hold aggro off very many people."</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I had to say this it is not ONLY the tanks responsibility to manage aggro! If a caster or dps class is blowing their wad and pull aggro ya know what to bad! They obviously do not know how to play their DPS toon properly! </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I have a 70 brig 68 zerk and an up and coming 35 sk in a raid I can blow my wad with my brig and debuff the crap out of a mob and pull aggro off of any of the tank classes. A dead dps toon is doing 0 dps! It is also their responsibility to help you do your job effectively.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Just thought id put in my 2 cents =) </DIV>

[Antryg Mistrose]

<font color="#ffff00">pawnipt wrote: " I've decided not to read this whole thread cuz part of it was the same old crap i see in other posts."</font>I read that, stopped reading the rest of your post, and wondered why you bothered posting.<div></div>

[Mistmoore-Milaga]

<div><blockquote><hr>Antryg Mistrose wrote:<font color="#ffff00">pawnipt wrote: " I've decided not to read this whole thread cuz part of it was the same old crap i see in other posts."</font>I read that, stopped reading the rest of your post, and wondered why you bothered posting.<div></div><hr></blockquote>Heh heh, I did the same.</div>

[pawnipt]

<div></div><div><blockquote><hr>Antryg Mistrose wrote:<font color="#ffff00">pawnipt wrote: " I've decided not to read this whole thread cuz part of it was the same old crap i see in other posts."</font>I read that, stopped reading the rest of your post, and wondered why you bothered posting.<div></div><hr></blockquote>Awsome!....the post was ment to be in responce to the creator of this thread ,<a target="_blank" href="../view_profile?user.id=259739"><span>Xtriker</span></a></div>

[Terron]

<blockquote><hr>pawnipt wrote:<div></div>Guardians are probly the best at surviving end game content due to there save [Removed for Content], stoneskin ability (tower of stone), warriors wish from CF BP, and the new guardian AA in EOF that allows them to block <font color="#ffffcc">the next incomming attack</font>. They are also very good at single target agro, and suck [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] with aoe agro (especially out of encounter).  Havent heard much about guardians soloing, id imagine they are pretty crappy at it. <hr></blockquote>Guards are pretty good at getting out of encounter AE aggro (at 52+) - reinforcement (mini-rescue on any hit) followed by their 2 AE attacks (one of which has a taunt) will do a lot, though is a bit slow and can not be done very frequently. Soloing with a guard is very slow compared to a SK, though much better than it was. <div></div>