looks like we might get some more loving : )

[Giral]

<DIV> Our power pool and No more fizzles  :smileywink:   please read the Link below of the New changes to combat that are on the way </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=testdev&message.id=11204" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=testdev&message.id=11204</A></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>For those with time constraints or are to lazy to read it all : )   Here  : </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>   <SPAN>Classes that use multiple stats for power pools have had their maximum power possible increase by up to +25% if they are high enough in both stats. This is to offset the difficulty of having to increase multiple stats</SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN><SPAN>Fizzle nevermore! The entire Fizzle mechanic has been removed</SPAN></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN><SPAN></SPAN></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN><SPAN></SPAN></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN><SPAN>P.S.  </SPAN></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN><SPAN> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P><SPAN>Focus Skill</SPAN></P> <UL> <LI><SPAN>Skill caps have increased from [ 1 * Level ] to [ 1.5 * Level ]</SPAN> <LI><SPAN></SPAN><SPAN>Focus has a maximum 20% instead of 10% to prevent damage interrupts</SPAN> <LI><SPAN></SPAN><SPAN>Focus Skill also mitigates the chance of spell based Interrupts, Stifle, and Stun Effects from interrupting a spell that is already casting</SPAN></LI></UL></BLOCKQUOTE></SPAN></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN><SPAN></SPAN></SPAN> </DIV><p>Message Edited by Giralus on <span class=date_text>09-28-2006</span> <span class=time_text>04:34 PM</span>

[MirageKnight]

<P>For power part of crusader LONG having problem since LU13 (yes now GU28 comming out), it's good to hear about.</P> <P>However, for tanking side, this seems creating even bigger gap among plate tanks because of warrior's AA giving 360 mitigation by AA, massive increase by AA, removing flaw of defensive stance.<BR>They sure need to redo those AAs because small incrase now means more impact if far from cap. (and for avoidance, plate is far from cap).</P> <P>I'm not sure how spell skill like distruption affect SK's high mana use or not either.</P> <P>As for dps, SK is already way behind for INT when defensive + mitigation because of T7 fable gears do not have much INT as STR, so most likely no impact.</P> <P> </P> <P>I'm afraid for making even worse gap between warriors. (this is EQ2, not EQ1. not sue why we still keep having the gap)</P>

[Nicholai24]

<div><blockquote><hr>MirageKnight wrote:<div></div> <p>For power part of crusader LONG having problem since LU13 (yes now GU28 comming out), it's good to hear about.</p> <p>However, for tanking side, this seems creating even bigger gap among plate tanks because of warrior's AA giving 360 mitigation by AA, massive increase by AA, removing flaw of defensive stance.They sure need to redo those AAs because small incrase now means more impact if far from cap. (and for avoidance, plate is far from cap).</p> <p>I'm not sure how spell skill like distruption affect SK's high mana use or not either.</p> <p>As for dps, SK is already way behind for INT when defensive + mitigation because of T7 fable gears do not have much INT as STR, so most likely no impact.</p> <p>I'm afraid for making even worse gap between warriors. (this is EQ2, not EQ1. not sue why we still keep having the gap)</p><hr>Your reading comprehension skill has improved! (12)This will actually bring Crusader mitigation more in line with warriors, due to the diminishing return curve. We'll have a boosted powerpool, too. And useful skill cap increases. And a double-powered Focus which channels through Stifle, Stun, etc.. and we'll never fizzle.QUIT WHINING [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]. Jesus, people are handed nuggets of gold, and half of the forum's panic-stricken naysayers will run around in circles, demanding to know when SOE will stop handing them grenades with gold tinfoil wrapped around them. You just can't please some people.</blockquote></div>

[GrizzlyRO]

<DIV>Ok, this isnt a whine but somthing to think about.  With this change stats are now caped at about 1070, as they were 510 befor.  With that sed, as an SK we need INT and STR for dps, dps is where most of our aggro comes from.  I find it hard enuff to have both these caps maxed as it is atm, depending on group setup.  Looking at the zerkers/guardians, they only need STR for there dps, and ushaly its over 800 most of the time.</DIV>

[Ceruline]

<div></div>Actually, these changes should close the mitigation gap for us on the raiding side.Above the cap (~4000), gains in mitigation will show diminishing returns.  This means that the 360 mitigation the guards and zerkers get will be less significant than it is now.  (And if we're talking about raid tanking, we're always talking about mit values over 4k when raid buffed)What worries me a little bit more is the reduction in base parry chance - this is offset by the parry bonus the other tanks get in defensive.All told, though, this is a pretty significant *set* of changes, and it's going to  be very hard to evaluate them in isolation.  Hopefully these get pushed to Test sooner rather than later (For the DoF release, the combat changes weren't released to test and were confined to beta - hopefully they take a different approach here) and we can get a closer look at how exactly things stack up.<div></div>We can do lots of great theorizing, but we can't condemn or praise these changes until we get the chance to play them.  (I can't wait to give raid tanking a shot under these *flex*).From my initial impressions though, this looks like a nice net gain for the SK class.  Between DM and these, things are looking up for SK's with raid tanking aspirations.<p>Message Edited by Ceruline on <span class=date_text>09-29-2006</span> <span class=time_text>07:11 AM</span>

[JoarAddam]

<DIV>grouped in raids I'm always over 560 int and str...  yeah, i can't get that high on my own, but if I did, what would be the point of buffs?  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>One of the things they're trying to do is make buffs more effective.  If you're capped or close to capped then spell upgrades for buffs just aren't that worth it.  on top of that, we have 2 new slots going in, and folk at the cap aren't going to see much benefit other than health and power from an extra ear slot and a cloak slot w/o this change.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My impression is that they're trying to make it harder to just cap yourself out, I like that, it makes the game more challenging and gives me more things to work for.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You've seen my 2handers, I have gotten 2 more since then, Rak'Leko (the greatsword that supposedly procs a lifetap but almost never does) and Gualdrek, sword of the sky (dropped off vyemm...  nobody wanted another 2hander, and I'm guild mascot, so yay me..  thank god we don't do DKP...)  the thing is, i didn't really NEED them...  they just help tweak my stats a little.  I'd have liked them to give me a greater benefit as I grew my collection, or broader tweaks.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm glad we're strong.  I'd hate to be carrying around 6 strong boxes as a mage...</DIV>

[Coica]

haha. no doubt. this is good news I think. with death march and now this things are looking up for us me thinks. haha..reading comprehension +12.haha.<div></div>

[CHIMPNOODLE.]

<P>It does sound like an improvement in theory ( to me anyway). My WIS is high as well, so it appears as if I may experience a power pool increase. I don't experience real aggro issues, but I do expend a good amount of power in the process. This just means I will likely be able to drop a few more higher power bombs and AOE dots...it should make that aspect easier. I 'll not have to go into conservation mode as early on the longer fights, and I'll have extra Hp available to me from being able to lifetap that few extra times. Also, my STA is always well over the current cap when buffed, so hopefully the cap will give me a nice HP increase as well full buffed.</P> <P> </P> <P>The mitigation diff of a few hundred should also be less significant due to the diminishing returns. Possibly even the re-evaluation of mob dammage they mentioned that was geared toward being at the melee miti cap will also work in our favor. It sounded to me as if mob melee dammage may not be as decisive in the fight. Perhaps I'm inferring incorrectly though.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P>Parts like bleow made me think of a slight altering of extreme emphasis on mob melee vs spell (sounds good for a WIS based defensive buff or at the very least a few hundred miti as being even less of a factor)</P> <LI><SPAN></SPAN><SPAN>It forced raid encounters to have incredibly high damage,output along with special abilities that overcome all mitigations to negate those large gains. This leads to a lot of one-shot kills against classes with low mitigation (mages primarily).</SPAN> <LI><SPAN></SPAN><SPAN>It forced named raid encounters to have increased melee attack skills, which unfairly affected classes that rely more on avoidance.</SPAN> </LI> <LI><SPAN>Debuffing casting skill was also only half as effective as debuffing melee skills.</SPAN> </LI> <P>Avoidance changes also made me think of a slight shift towards our favor (not to mention the decreasing returns again)...</P> <P><SPAN>Base Parry chance has been lowered from 10% to 5%</SPAN> (slightly less emphasis on defensive +parry abilities)</P> <P> </P> <P>Anyway, just a couple things that stood out for me and hinted to me of being beneficial to us. We'll see how it pans out of course.</P><p>Message Edited by CHIMPNOODLE. on <span class=date_text>09-29-2006</span> <span class=time_text>08:43 AM</span>

[MirageKnight]

<DIV>Yeah that is excatly the point if you know how warrior's AA.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>360ac means less if close to top of diminishing curve (but still means some but not much), but then warrior's can increase dodging to diminishing point by AA easier.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Crusaders sure have similar line on AGI for avoidance but not comparable to be honest.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Focus skill is surely nice change but does it help somthing to keep SK's hp up? I doubt it does. After all, those check come ONLY if you are casting and getting hit by stiffle/stun and so on. (not while stun). So it does help little bit for less chance of interrupts by 10% boost, but doubt it really affect SK at all.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Fizzle removal is nice, but I have never had problem with SK spells except for mana stone, heart/essence, potions. So almost no impact for SK.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So still, warrior's remain to have upper hand controlling own ac/dodge by AA to get optimized where crusaders straggle.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It also bring up point of using defensive stance over offensive for any class after getting high mitigation by equipements or AA.<BR>Of course, any small increase might be what you want from defensive but for SK, it seems offensive stances' INT help more (because of away from cap).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>These should be really look into before goes into live.</DIV>

[Ceruline]

<div></div>They'll be looked into throughout Beta, I'm sure (Once it's opened up to the public).Hopefully it'll also get put on the Test server prior to the expansion so that beta isn't the only testing ground.Note that the mob damage is also going to get tuned down somewhat, so between the tighter mitigation spread and reduced damage SK raid tanking may be much more viable.  With the aggro potential of Death March, we may even manage to be rather effective raid tanks.<div></div><p>Message Edited by Ceruline on <span class=date_text>09-29-2006</span> <span class=time_text>12:02 PM</span>

[Nicholai24]

It never fails to amuse me how people who have (presumably) been raiding for (weeks, months, years), and thus have been playing their class (melee) for months (at least), are completely unaware of the encounter tree variations on the effectiveness of avoidance, parry, riposte, block, and mitigation.Yes, at the moment, 6,000 AC > 5600 > 4500, etc, etc, etc. However, in spite of this, 6,000 AC is <font size="6"><b><i>NOT </i></b><font size="4">going to absorb 80% of a melee hit from an epic, OR even a heroic.There are already hidden diminishing returns on the effectiveness of armorclass. You can check this out yourself, provided you have some time on your hands, a parser, and some basic knowledge of statistics. Your armor is there to provide protection, and that's what it does, but your absorbance of incoming melee is absolutely NOT a fixed value. I'm not sure what the base damage absorbed is, but it's definitely not the % your armorclass displays when you mouse over it. As near as I can tell, 6000 MIT will absorb:Up to 80% from a Level 70 Solo MobUp to 70~ % from a Level 70 HeroicUp to (around, hard to tell, more important things to do on raids besides watch damage) 50 - 65% from a Level 70 Epic.The cap for a Level 75 is around 6400 or 6500, and those %'s will still apply. Yes, mitigation is very important right now, because if you're below the 6400ish mark when you're messing around with epics, your ( read mitigation as nothing more than another Resistance value ) resistance roll for an incoming melee hit will have a cut-off point. You're given, basically, a dice roll with a min and a max.This combat change is going to not only make mitigation more in line with all tank classes ( And before you go and say something like, ' but omg omg omg teh warrior still has a 10% chance to absorb 2% more damage from a melee hit, 20% of the time!! ', our lifetaps will MORE than make up for this, especially with a 0% chance to fizzle, and a doubled chance to channel our spell through melee damage. Just [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] and wait, and you may get your chance to do what a few of the SKs on this board have been doing for months: MT. ). This is a <u><i>good </i></u>thing. Don't badger the point, don't complain, there's nothing in that update that will nerf us, ONLY things that will buff all of us considerably, and in the end, we'll be equal tanks when compared to a berserker or guardian with an equivalent suit of equipment.Your other comments, on a shadowknight's parry and evasion, make me LoL. Evasion is borked. No one besides a monk will see much use for their evasion on an epic encounter ( I can be buffed to 61%, and have a monk using their evasion buff on me, which brings me up to around a 76% evasion score after you do a little math -- Master 1 Evasion buff, but Adept III would be a negligible difference -- and I still get nailed for much, much more of the time than 24%. ) Evasion seems to NOT ONLY be on a diminishing returns curve -- i.e., you dodge 76% of the time against a solo, Level 70 enemy, less for a Heroic, less for an Epic -- but, even better, the evasion value itself decreases when you compare it to a Level 70+ solo / heroic / epic, and who has to tank Level 70 Epics in T7? No one.In other words..On a 74 x 4, your evasion will probably look something more like a 40% chance to evade, not a 76%. Even if a guardian would be able to increase their shown evasion up to the cap ( counting someone's evasion buff.. ), and reached the 80% mark ( maybe higher? The numerical value never climbs to 100% anymore, after LU13.. ), their true % against an epic would only be a few percentage points above you. If that.Statistically speaking, it would be a difference so small as to mean, maybe, four or five more hits over the course of a 20 minute fight.Lifetaps will reduce that to next to nothing, especially if mitigation is brought within a small margin of eachother amongst the tanks.In other words, if all goes well, shadowknights won't have to work so hard to bring their mit up to par with other tanks. Hoorah.</font></font><div></div>

[Nocifer Deathblade]

<P>Nice change. I think it probably improves Sk more than it improves warriors..  Zerkers has short mit buff for any tough encounters etc and it'll mean less after the change that would help to normalize between warriors and crusaders. Our ward or lifetap didn't get changed.</P> <P>Also, cap is 1070 but 40% of the cap is at "break even" which is 428 stat point.. Anything above that will feel diminshing return. Ppls with 520 cap will feel nerf if their stat still stay at 520 after thenchange but starts to recover as stat goes beyond 520..  </P> <P>Nice thing about SK,  our stats are hardly hitting cap of any kind and well-spreaded over 5 stats..  So, we would get most benefit out of all 5 stats and still sporting them under 40% cap..</P> <P>Bottom line.. A warrior with 1070 str is little worse off than SK with 535 str and 535 INT (net is 1070) because of diminishing return beyond 428..  Of course, SK with 1070 STR and 1070 INT would be mad heh but very difficult to do.  </P> <P>Warriors are having easier time to reach 4k mitigation that crusaders do via AA and their CAs now they feel some nerf in this while benefiting crusaders more cuz there are improvement for those with sub 4k mitigation.</P> <P>I think the changes help to closen the gap between warriors and crusaders and closen the gap between ubers and casuals.</P>

[Nocifer Deathblade]

Bright side..  2nd Earring and Cloak will be more satisfying experience cuz added stats will be useful for everyone. Before the change, ubers might not find 2nd earring/cloak useful at all cuz they wouldn't improve them a bit other than hp/power bonus.. Now they have reason to add those. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Hamervelder]

Seems like it might be a really good change.  I guess we'll have to wait and see.  <div></div>

[Mistmoore-Milaga]

I definately think this will narrow the field between the plate tanks. I also think it is going to mean that fabled out players (like myself) aren't going to be able to cut swaths through the instances anymore. What this means for the non-fabled-out really depends on how they are tweaking the mobs to compensate. I'm concerned this might negatively impact the casual community. We'll see ...I wonder if they are tweaking all mobs or just the epic encounters. A lot of raids (not all, but a lot) really do seem to be black or white: If you aren't the MT and you get aggro you are one-shotted. If you mistime an AoE or get caught in a barrage you are one-shotted. If your cure fizzles, your group dies. I'm concerned (and somewhat hopeful) this might swing raiding down a bit more into the realm of the casual player. We'll see ...I think what this is going to mean, overall for the Shadowknight, is that we should focus on getting more balanced.  An 80 AGI isn't going to cut it anymore. When you've got 400 STA, it sounds like you will definately want another 10 points of AGI over 10 points of STA. Granted all abilities still won't be equal. I think going from 500 to 510 INT is still probably more worthwhile than going from 400 to 410 STR. Since we don't know what the ability break-even points are (and it may be different for each aspect of each ability) it's going to be anyones guess as to how much effort to put into each ability. I imagine it will be somewhere around 400, though, based on what the break-even was set for mitigation. All I know is that I'm going to be counting the ability points that items give and go by that.  Then to balance that with mitigation ... urk. And resists ... urk urk. Time to throw away my excel spreadsheets and start over.The change does seem interesting, though. The theory. If the implementation is right this could be very good.Is it too early to call this Combat Revamp Redux?<div></div>

[SageGaspar]

Well their entire goal here, if they do it right, is to make the "casual" player slightly better, actually. I imagine you'll be able to get to the soft cap on instance legendary alone probably.The ones that will be knocked down a bit are probably the people in relic sets and comparable fabled -- stuff that's better than legendary but not that much better. People that are completely geared out in the highest end fabled are going to be above the old caps in the new system. People that are just about capped now will see a reduction. <div></div>

[Nocifer Deathblade]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Milaga wrote:<BR><BR>Since we don't know what the ability break-even points are (and it may be different for each aspect of each ability) it's going to be anyones guess as to how much effort to put into each ability. I imagine it will be somewhere around 400, though, based on what the break-even was set for mitigation. All I know is that I'm going to be counting the ability points that items give and go by that.  Then to balance that with mitigation ... urk. And resists ... urk urk. Time to throw away my excel spreadsheets and start over.<BR><BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Well, as of now, we know break-even points..</P> <P>Mitigation/resists are at 4k. Above gets diminishing return..</P> <P>Stats = 428.. Over 428 gets diminishing return.. all way to 1070.. </P> <P>The change was supposed to normalize casual and uber tanks.  For same 600 mitigation, uber tank gets more bang for same 600 than casual tank. It is not supposed to be. 600 should be SAME for either casual or uber tank.  That would be more fair to anyone PLUS 600 should benefit mages for same % return as uber tank would receive.  Under current system, 600 gives much higher % to mitigation to uber tank over  mage which 600 would means so little. That's why they got 1 shotted too easy. The gap between uber tank and casual tank or mages got wider and wider as they are approaching 80% mitigation for same mitigation number investment.. That's so flawed in design.. I'm glad that they are looking at the change that would eliminate design flaw and normalize everything so everyone of any classes can enjoy equal returns on mitigation and resists regardless of their low % or high % other than very high stat/mitigation/resists that would give them little % increase for same number due to diminishing return. But trade off is that they can bring stats well beyond old 520 cap to do little better than old 520 during current combat system..</P> <P>I hope that the change will turn out to be great. What I really want to see is that raids will nolonger 1 shot everyone if tank goes down.. It gets annoying.. EQ1 doesn't do that heh. I like to see casters to be able to withstand few hits to buy time to deaggro. It gets dry when they got little overaggro then that means death to them period. They needed time to de-aggro and survive.. Less work on healers as well.</P> <P> </P>