How does FD impact overall hate?

[Ceruline]

I know that if FD works, the mobs will be off me for at least the duration of the feign.  But what is the overall effect of the feign?  Does it actually act as a detaunt?  Hatelist removal?I'm specifically thinking of this after seeing how easy it is to pull aggro with Deathmarch nowadays.  However, thinking about it, if FD has a significant effect on the overall hate of whoever was feigned - then maybe it could be used to up the dps significantly of one of the threat-limited dps classes in a raid situation.Does anyone know exactly or approximately what feign does to the hatelist position of the target?<div></div>

[Kunathar]

From experience I have used FD and regained aggro the second I stood back up (when I'm not MT).  So from that I don't believe FD is a MOB mem-wipe.  It simply takes you off the MOB's attention list for as long as you are down. Although if I stay down for as long as the effect lasts I have found the MT in the group usually gains enough hate for the MOB to no longer care about me. This has held true, thus far, for DM launches.  I stay down for the duration of the FD.  Getting up too quickly just puts the MOB right back on me.  <div></div>

[Zanix]

<P>from my experiences, If your group or raid is dying, and you FD to attempt the save...</P> <P>if the timer expires, I am the last to go. the mob continues down the hate line, then will retain some sort of hate with me...100% of past exp. I am the last to die....[expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] i hate that weak timer.</P>

[PhozFa]

FD puts you at 0 hate untill you get up. It doesn't memwipe or mess with your hate position other than that <div></div>

[Zanix]

<DIV>i'd say it drops you to <STRONG>1</STRONG> hate</DIV><p>Message Edited by Zanix on <span class=date_text>09-28-2006</span> <span class=time_text>01:11 PM</span>

[Bruener]

It does not drop you 1 hate spot.  If FD is successful it will drop you to 0 threat while you are FD...the second you get up though you retain the same amount of threat that you had to start.  To prove this go ahead and try it sometime....pull a group, cast DM, than FD right away...stand up as soon as you FD and the mobs will still be on you.  Or like mentioned before...in a raid if you pull agro and are high enough above the next person on the hate list you can FD and get up and still die...heck sometimes I wait the full duration and I will get up and still get agro.  20 sec on a FD is a joke.

[PhozFa]

<blockquote><hr>Zanix wrote:<div></div> <div>i'd say it drops you to <strong>1</strong> hate</div><p>Message Edited by Zanix on <span class="date_text">09-28-2006</span> <span class="time_text">01:11 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote>If FD dropped you to 1 hate instead of 0 FD training wouldn't be possble. <div></div>

[Zanix]

<DIV>well i think being in a group might be different than solo. In all my experience, when I get back up, no matter how much I tanked or taunted, I am the last to go... provided the mobs still in our group's range. but if some random person (not grouped) was standing at the spot we fight, and I FD, he is HATE 0...he won't aggro any at all. once the mob's done killing the group, it will retrun back to it's original location (they changed this a while ago, to avoid FD training onto other groups)</DIV>

[PhozFa]

<div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>Zanix wrote:<div>well i think being in a group might be different than solo. In all my experience, when I get back up, no matter how much I tanked or taunted, I am the last to go... provided the mobs still in our group's range. but if some random person (not grouped) was standing at the spot we fight, and I FD, he is HATE 0...he won't aggro any at all. once the mob's done killing the group, it will retrun back to it's original location (they changed this a while ago, to avoid FD training onto other groups)</div><hr></blockquote>I am talking about being in a group. Spells don't change between group and solo situations. get a partner, go find someone to auto follow you, run throu a bunch of agro mobs, then FD yourself. If it doesn't fail and your partner didn't cast any temp buffs the mobs will reset because everyone has hit 0 hate. If FD put you at 1 hate the mobs wouldn't reset. In the same dou pull a mob. AE taunt it, let random guy melee it once then FD. As long as random guy doesn't exceed the group taunt amount the mob will stick backon you when you get up. Not sure what other examples to give you to prove my point. If you do die last on a raid no offense but you must not have good agro. Try my examples before telling me I'm wrong<p>Message Edited by PhozFate on <span class=date_text>09-28-2006</span> <span class=time_text>07:56 PM</span>

[SageGaspar]

FD drops you off the list as long as you're FDed and gives you back all the hate you had originally when you stand up.If you're the last person in an encounter, when you're FDed the hate list is completely clear so the encounter resets and your hate wipes. If not, when you stand back up you're exactly where you were on the hate list.When you're in a group or raid, aggro control is a constant struggle. FDing is like if you stopped attacking or taunting for as long as you were on the ground, no reactives, all that crap. So you wouldn't expect to get aggro again when you stand up unless either everyone stopped DPSing or you had stone cold, rock solid aggro.<div></div>

[PhozFa]

<blockquote><hr>SageGaspar wrote:FD drops you off the list as long as you're FDed and gives you back all the hate you had originally when you stand up.If you're the last person in an encounter, when you're FDed the hate list is completely clear so the encounter resets and your hate wipes. If not, when you stand back up you're exactly where you were on the hate list.When you're in a group or raid, aggro control is a constant struggle. FDing is like if you stopped attacking or taunting for as long as you were on the ground, no reactives, all that crap. So you wouldn't expect to get aggro again when you stand up unless either everyone stopped DPSing or you had stone cold, rock solid aggro.<div></div><hr></blockquote>thats what i was trying to say! <span>:smileywink:</span><div></div>

[SageGaspar]

<div><blockquote><hr>PhozFate wrote:thats what i was trying to say! <span>:smileywink:</span><div></div><hr></blockquote>Ya, sometimes you just have to repeat it multiple times in different ways to get people to read it <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div>

[Xanoth]

<blockquote><hr>SageGaspar wrote:FD drops you off the list as long as you're FDed and gives you back all the hate you had originally when you stand up<hr></blockquote>rest is true, but from a dev post about a month back, they said hate fades with time (but didnt say to what extent). so you dont/shouldn't get your original hate back again, but a deminished amount depending on the length of time you spent hugging the dirt.<p>Message Edited by Xanoth on <span class=date_text>09-29-2006</span> <span class=time_text>02:29 PM</span>

[JoarAddam]

<P>when you FD, you retain the same amount of hate you have, and it suffers the same adjustments over time as regular hate.  the longer you stay down, the less you're building NEW hate.</P> <P> </P> <P>you can't just FD and get immediately back up because you're not letting others build their hate up past you.  Same for FDING someone else, don't tell them to get right back up, they need to stay down or die.  staying down 20 seconds is too long, but staying down 2 seconds is too short.  I have found on raids (labs, HoS... areas with adds of multi-mob encounters)  that if I draw aggro with DM and Don't want it, I need to stay down 8-10 seconds or i'll get the mobs back.</P> <P> </P>

[SageGaspar]

<div><blockquote><hr>Xanoth wrote:<blockquote><hr>SageGaspar wrote:FD drops you off the list as long as you're FDed and gives you back all the hate you had originally when you stand up<hr></blockquote>rest is true, but from a dev post about a month back, they said hate fades with time (but didnt say to what extent). so you dont/shouldn't get your original hate back again, but a deminished amount depending on the length of time you spent hugging the dirt.<p>Message Edited by Xanoth on <span class="date_text">09-29-2006</span> <span class="time_text">02:29 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote>Right, but all you care about is relative hate, and everyone else's hate is decaying at exactly the same rate as yours. So you can essentially ignore hate decay. I dunno why they even have it, I can't conceive of a situation where someone would have so little aggro that their hate would decay to zero hehe, and that's the only time when it would count. They also mentioned in the same post that it was a very, very slow decrease.</div>

[Norrsken]

<div><blockquote><hr>SageGaspar wrote:<div><blockquote><hr>Xanoth wrote:<blockquote><hr>SageGaspar wrote:FD drops you off the list as long as you're FDed and gives you back all the hate you had originally when you stand up<hr></blockquote>rest is true, but from a dev post about a month back, they said hate fades with time (but didnt say to what extent). so you dont/shouldn't get your original hate back again, but a deminished amount depending on the length of time you spent hugging the dirt.<p>Message Edited by Xanoth on <span class="date_text">09-29-2006</span> <span class="time_text">02:29 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote>Right, but all you care about is relative hate, and everyone else's hate is decaying at exactly the same rate as yours. So you can essentially ignore hate decay. I dunno why they even have it, I can't conceive of a situation where someone would have so little aggro that their hate would decay to zero hehe, and that's the only time when it would count. They also mentioned in the same post that it was a very, very slow decrease.</div><hr></blockquote>That would depend on the rate of decay. Lets say the rate actually accelerates if you do not gain new hate? the everyone would not have the same hate decay. A wizzy using IC would then lose a chunk of hate larger than the say, warlock keeping his ever ticking 1sec tick dot up. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div>

[SageGaspar]

True, but the message I got from <a href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=commnews&message.id=8078#M8078" target=_blank>this post</a> was basically that we didn't have to care about it at all unless we were taking five minute breaks during battle <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div>