Harm touch in duels -- thoughts?

[Hamervelder]

I've found myself being criticized lately for using HT in duels by people who don't seem to think it's fair.  I got criticized by a brigand who called it cheap technique.  My response was "Did you try to chain stun me?"  ... yes.  "Did you use band of thugs?"  ... yes.  "Did you use double-up" ... no, I was dead already, but I would have.  .... and thusly, the fellow proved my point for me.  In PvP or dueling, no other class is going to say "Well, I won't use my big CA's or spells on you, so that you have a better chance of winning."  No, a brigand is gonna chain stun you, use band of thugs, double-up, and everything else he has to beat you.  Why, therefore, do people seem to have such a problem with HT?  Am I supposed to go easy on someone, so that they feel better?  Truth be told, we don't need to use HT to win.  But still... I don't hear people complaining about band of thugs or tsunami or ice comet in duels.  Why all the complaints about HT?<div></div>

[Xanoth]

against smoeone with 6k+ disease resists HT is hardly worth casting unless they are under 10% health...brigands in particular often have rubbish resists due to AE immunity letting them be complacent.when dueling i try to win without it, as with a 15 min recast i dont want to become dependant on it. but its definatly a valid button.

[Kelkirra]

<DIV>I learned a long time ago that ppl fear dueling SK's because of that spell so I learned how to beat them without it. You become even more deadly and feared when you learn to not depend on it <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.</DIV>

[Kazander13]

<DIV>It was a different thread not too long ago where someone (can't remember who) said that HT is like a crutch. I completely agree with that statement and the above as well. I recommend trying to do every duel without it unless you're just gonna sink like a rock. If depended on it makes it hard to complete without, but once you know you can win without it, it then becomes more of a bonus for finishing people off, taunting etc. I'm not saying you shouldn't use it if you need it mind you, but that's the method I stick by when dueling. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now on to complaints, tell them to straight [Removed for Content] off. Complaining about other peoples class abilities during a duel, no matter thier significance or reuse timers is basically saying you suck hard ones. It's not a bug, it's not a glitch, it was put there with intent by the designers as a small part of a whole of that classes construction. Change your resists/play styles and go back and rechallenge someone instead of being a whiner. In fact since SK damage is largely resist based, if he really cared so much about it, he'd know what to do. I remember old posts on PvP versus conjurors where people siad they couldn't win to save thier lives, yet you have others respond ripping conjies new ones. It's all in the players, and sometimes players are replaced with whiners so don't take any of it to heart.</DIV>

[Kelkirra]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kazander13 wrote:<BR> <DIV>It was a different thread not too long ago where someone (can't remember who) said that HT is like a crutch. I completely agree with that statement and the above as well. I recommend trying to do every duel without it unless you're just gonna sink like a rock. If depended on it makes it hard to complete without, but once you know you can win without it, it then becomes more of a bonus for finishing people off, taunting etc. I'm not saying you shouldn't use it if you need it mind you, but that's the method I stick by when dueling. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now on to complaints, tell them to straight [Removed for Content] off. Complaining about other peoples class abilities during a duel, no matter thier significance or reuse timers is basically saying you suck hard ones. It's not a bug, it's not a glitch, it was put there with intent by the designers as a small part of a whole of that classes construction. Change your resists/play styles and go back and rechallenge someone instead of being a whiner. In fact since SK damage is largely resist based, if he really cared so much about it, he'd know what to do. I remember old posts on PvP versus conjurors where people siad they couldn't win to save thier lives, yet you have others respond ripping conjies new ones. It's all in the players, and sometimes players are replaced with whiners so don't take any of it to heart.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>/clap

[Nicholai24]

When people complain about my using Harm Touch in a duel, I usually do the polite thing and apologize, and promise not to use it on the next go.Then, I go ahead and use it again.<div></div>

[Margen]

I don't duel much, just with guildies when we are sitting around for group set up on raids, but I try not to use HT.  The long cast time makes it kind of a pain to get to used to IMO.   Plus I like beating my guild mates without it, just to brag.  But I've used it before I admit, last time was against our brigand, the little bastage kept stunning me ... he deserved it LOL.

[Trop]

<div></div><div></div>I can't duel (I'm on pvp), but I do not find it cheap in anyway to HT PKs.I'm a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing deathknight, I should be able to inflict a ton of disease damage.  It's like asking a Paladin not to use special heals.<div></div><p>Message Edited by Tropic on <span class="date_text">09-23-2006</span><span class="time_text">02:24 PM</span></p><p>Message Edited by Tropic on <span class=date_text>09-23-2006</span> <span class=time_text>02:24 PM</span>

[Kelkirra]

<DIV>Death March and then HT the brigiand =P. I love doing that to them, well after a good taunt and a swing with agony <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />. And do you mean recast time? Because the spell is instant O_O.</DIV>

[Hamervelder]

<div><blockquote><hr>Sarasoon wrote:<div>Death March and then HT the brigiand =P. I love doing that to them, well after a good taunt and a swing with agony <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />. And do you mean recast time? Because the spell is instant O_O.</div><hr></blockquote>15-minute reuse timer.   <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />I don't use HT much (because I don't need to) but when I do, I get called cheap for using it.  Just wondering what others thought...</div>

[Chips]

<DIV>both classes are underhanded and evil...whats the problem here?...true evil uses anything and everything to gain the upper hand...i say kill away , take what you can and leave nothing , </DIV>

[Norrsken]

<P>Hah, yeah. A brig that wont dispatch me wont get HT'd all over the place.<BR>I am pretty sure the brigs wont let go fo their dispatch. (Or others).</P> <P>The assassins with decapitate, well... Guess what. He's gonna get hit with HT.<BR>Its just rubbish and people are blowing off some steam.</P> <P>If people whine like that to me, I usually just fight them again, and slap them silly without the use of HT (since its on a 15 minute reuse they cant really say much).<BR>And if they come back for more, I'll keep killing them.</P> <P>Its not very hard to make do without it though so most of the time I will.<BR>I even use it more on mobs than in PvP. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P>

[Dord]

<P>As well as SK I have a level 35 monk. In the process of getting "Devastation fist", a spell from the vampire caves with very similar properties to HT. Do I plan on using this optional spell in duels - absolutely. </P> <P>If I challenge someone I expect them to go all out to beat me, therefore I return the respect. I may hold off HT if its a friendly duel to pass  time but I'll sometimes use a duel to settle a disagreement with another player. In those cases, HT gets used as soon as the opposing players health is down to a level where HT is terminal. </P> <P>It is a core skil for us. If they don't like it, don't duel.</P><p>Message Edited by Dordur on <span class=date_text>09-25-2006</span> <span class=time_text>05:14 AM</span>

[Ultimatum]

People hate HT because it's the SK 15 minute "oh [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]" spell.  The same people will complain about decap, snipr shot, and usually lay hands.  Personally I think using these in /duels is cheap myself, 1) because I mainly dueled guild mates, and I wasn't all about being sheap when fighting them, and we all were of the agreement of not using any 15 min timers in duels, and 2) if I dueled anyone else, I didn't want to hear "oooh you needed HT to win".  I'd rather stop their face in and not let them be able to say a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] thing about it.  Now, PvP is a different story, because it actually matters who wins and loses so by all means, fire that HT directly at someone's face!<div></div>

[Nocifer Deathblade]

<P>Wow, you are worried about what other people think about you and how you use HT? Screw them all. SK is all about survival to the fittest and will do every tools in their disposal to WIN. That includes HT if it deems necessary to win. HT is part of SK arsenal and they have full right to use it in PVP anyway. If people are afraid of SKs just cuz of HT and lifetap then SK's role is actually a success because SK is a DARK KNIGHT that supposed to be a menacing knight that imidiates people around him/her. </P> <P>If people not afraid of SK for any reason then SOE failed to design SK properly.  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>Bottomline, do all the means to use HT in PVP duels if you need it to turn the tide of losing battle into winning battle.. If people don't wanna to duel you because of HT then they are actually extremely coward and SO afraid of you. You won without a fight via fear alone..</P> <P>For example, I duel'ed a lvl 70 guardian farmer with his farmer team who wanted to /duel me cuz we were there first in POA dragon area. They wanted to drive us out. I thought sure, and killed him very easily then I /duel him again. He refused to do it  at all. I taunted him into dueling me again and insulted him COWARD! Over and over agian. He still refused to duel me again and his pride sure was wounded and he left. So I won the subsequent duels without a fight. That's an example.. I even used HT just to wound his pride in first duel even though if the fight was easy and just make him more afraid of me in next duel. He had more powerful gear than me. That's why he hit /duel me thinking that he can beat me only to learn that I ate him for breakfast. Lol. </P><p>Message Edited by Nocifer Deathblade on <span class=date_text>09-25-2006</span> <span class=time_text>07:24 AM</span>

[Norrsken]

<div><blockquote><hr>Nocifer Deathblade wrote:<div></div> <div></div> <div></div> <p>Wow, you are worried about what other people think about you and how you use HT? Screw them all. SK is all about survival to the fittest and will do every tools in their disposal to WIN. That includes HT if it deems necessary to win. HT is part of SK arsenal and they have full right to use it in PVP anyway. If people are afraid of SKs just cuz of HT and lifetap then SK's role is actually a success because SK is a DARK KNIGHT that supposed to be a menacing knight that imidiates people around him/her. </p> <p>If people not afraid of SK for any reason then SOE failed to design SK properly.  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p> <p>Bottomline, do all the means to use HT in PVP duels if you need it to turn the tide of losing battle into winning battle.. If people don't wanna to duel you because of HT then they are actually extremely coward and SO afraid of you. You won without a fight via fear alone..</p> <p>For example, I duel'ed a lvl 70 guardian farmer with his farmer team who wanted to /duel me cuz we were there first in POA dragon area. They wanted to drive us out. I thought sure, and killed him very easily then I /duel him again. He refused to do it  at all. I taunted him into dueling me again and insulted him COWARD! Over and over agian. He still refused to duel me again and his pride sure was wounded and he left. So I won the subsequent duels without a fight. That's an example.. I even used HT just to wound his pride in first duel even though if the fight was easy and just make him more afraid of me in next duel. He had more powerful gear than me. That's why he hit /duel me thinking that he can beat me only to learn that I ate him for breakfast. Lol. </p><p>Message Edited by Nocifer Deathblade on <span class="date_text">09-25-2006</span> <span class="time_text">07:24 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote>Poor guard. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Sks eat tanks. </div>

[Godsgift4040]

<DIV>Hate to post in an sk forum but i have an sk alt atm and found the topic somewhat odd. I am not sure why people would complain about you guys using HT in a duel, if the person dueling ya tries at all they can max their disease resists so your HT does around 600 to 700 dmg. To most this really isnt a staggering amount so not sure why people would complain. Just a thought from a missing in action bruiser though and 50 lvl alt sk in the works.</DIV> <DIV>       Denubis Befallen</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Pitt Hammerfi]

<blockquote><hr>Godsgift4040 wrote:<DIV>Hate to post in an sk forum but i have an sk alt atm and found the topic somewhat odd. I am not sure why people would complain about you guys using HT in a duel, if the person dueling ya tries at all they can max their disease resists so your HT does around 600 to 700 dmg. To most this really isnt a staggering amount so not sure why people would complain. Just a thought from a missing in action bruiser though and 50 lvl alt sk in the works.</DIV><DIV>       Denubis Befallen</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV> </DIV><hr></blockquote>well after sacrilege, agony, and deathmarch, a master II HT does quite a bit more that 700-800 <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><p>Message Edited by Pitt Hammerfist on <span class=date_text>09-27-2006</span> <span class=time_text>06:32 AM</span>

[Tyrani]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Pitt Hammerfist wrote:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Godsgift4040 wrote:<BR> <BR> <DIV>Hate to post in an sk forum but i have an sk alt atm and found the topic somewhat odd. I am not sure why people would complain about you guys using HT in a duel, if the person dueling ya tries at all they can max their disease resists so your HT does around 600 to 700 dmg. To most this really isnt a staggering amount so not sure why people would complain. Just a thought from a missing in action bruiser though and 50 lvl alt sk in the works.</DIV><BR> <DIV>       Denubis Befallen</DIV><BR> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR><BR><BR>well after sacrilege, agony, and deathmarch, a master II HT does quite a bit more that 700-800 <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <P>Message Edited by Pitt Hammerfist on <SPAN class=date_text>09-27-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>06:32 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Definitely....even at max disease resistance, they're going to get hit for 20% at least....max INT the damage of Pestilent Touch Master 1 is around 7k....20% of 7k is 1400. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[JoarAddam]

<DIV>Hell, I had a wizzie get ticked off that i used nef sacrament...  Just tell them they're welcome to try again, and they have 12min 59 seconds left to decide.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>my HT is on a 13min 40 sec timer...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[CHIMPNOODLE.]

<DIV>Touch is fine to use...just another class ability/ca.</DIV>

[Anca0202]

<P>I dont duel much.  Every now and then as I am running off to solo some instance for loot a newb, usually a few levels below me, challenges me to a duel.  Well I am not gonna wuss out and decline, but there are lewtz waiting for me.  So I HT the dweeb and keep going without stopping.  It is great.  I usually get a tell with [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] was that you hit me with.  I just mumble something about some special SK thing and go on my way.  Not many people bother me with duels any more...If they do gripe alot I do go back and stomp them properly.  Usually knock them back a few times, blurring their vision just to show them who is boss.</P>