Difficult Question (Raiding, EQ2 Community ect..)

[Nhuman]

<DIV>For all taking the time to read this thanks...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Basically like quite a few people ive seen on these boards recently im a wow refugee thats looking for something new and EQ2 has always peaked my interests but I fell into the crowd with the rest of the Lemmings and went over to WoW.  4 Raiding guilds later (Timezone moves ftl) Im a bit burnt out with the same content in WoW you can only kill the same bosses for so long before the challenge and excitement is over.  So here I am in EQ and after 3 weeks and a serious altism disease ( I just cant choose!!!!)  Ive kind of settled on a SK.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My concern now though is the Raiding enviroment ive always played the hybrid or solo classes because thats what i like.  Build up the char then go to war on my terms not struggling for groups and loot at the lower levels when it will be easily replaced.  That all beign said Im concerned about my choice of a main.  It seems like from scanning the forums that Tanks are very very very popular.  And the only real "raiding" choices are the left over classes that the majority of the community doesnt like.  In my mind this translates into a lack of "slots" on raids.  With the raid cap at 24?? (think I read it was the cap) How difficult is it to raid and get the gear that people want?  Are there encounter cooldowns that make it difficult to gear your char?  My goal in playing any MMO is experiencing the higher content that takes a team of people to defeat.  But that said im not about to roll a char that i will HATE to play for 70 something levels then all the gearing that comes with it. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Basically im trying to get a feel from the SK community about how their raiding experiences are.  There will always be the min/maxers that dont care about anything but stats and wont take you because you arent the "Best" option out there but those that are in the more casual guild / raid enviroments what is your experience?  Im enjoying the SK class and the game as a whole and ive developed an addiction for furnishing my home lol.  This game seems to have 10x the depth that wow or any other MMO on the market has at the moment so Id like to get into it more but like i said im concerned about getting into my 40's or 50's or even higher and finding out then that my effort was for nothign.  There are other classes im looking at which is the main reason im posting this.  To get a feel for what the options are aside from the standard bard/mezzer that everyone always needs.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My main goals of a char regardless of what it is:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>1.  Soloability, groupign is great interacting with people is what an MMO is about, but at the same time in RL just like in game there are times when you wanna do something on your own or dont have time for a group, but would still ike to feel like you accomplished something.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>2.  Group Viability:  Being a good soloer typically means your class or you have very limited group skills/abilities.  The skills are my issue but the abilities that benefit the group are in class design imo <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>3.  Funfactor:  Kinda hard to get advice on but everyone knows which classes that are just a chore to level.  And to be honest ive played way to many of those up until now and id like to avoid that again.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Anyway hope you can help me on my couple of questions there in there somewhere lol.</DIV>

[Antryg Mistrose]

SK = Easy to solo, easy to get groups, fun.  But as you've already worked out, 24 spots on a raid.  1-3 tanks required, and tanks make up > 1/4 of the population.  The maths is NOT in favour of a tank that is not first choice for MT (guardian), 2nd with high dps (Berserker), has a class defining deaggro spell (Paladin-amends) and Rez, does okay dps or can FD pull mobs (Monk/Bruiser).For a tank that can't heal others much, and doesn't dps a lot, no rez, only a few debuffs - you are not going to be a welcome addition to most raid guilds.A priest (if you can put up with staring at health bars for 70/50 levels) or a pure dps class, or a utility class thats in a shortage, these are all easier choices for getting into raiding.  SK is the very hardest, especially if the guild already has ONE, not 2, 3 ... One, who existing SK who raids.<div></div>

[Kazander13]

Yeah, raiding is going to be chore unless you just end up at the right time. But that does not mean that you can't get out there, play your class well, do some networking and end up MT or MA or just  a pickup if that's what you want. There are plenty of successful Raiding SK but like previously said, more than one in a raid party is usually unlikely. As far as fun and soloability SK is fun as hell, especially in the last twenty levels. I admit I got a little burnt at the mid 40's but once you start getting Tap Veins, Death March and Pestilence you begin to see some interesting twists that really kick it into high gear. Death March was recently overhauled which you can find on this board on the first page, but after about two days worth of advertised Death March in groups, I got tells like mad. It can turn an encounter around if one of your groupmates gets [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] and pulls adds and runs around, or accelerate the slaying of a group or boss, I have yet to try it out in raid but from what I understand we have to be careful in that format since the spell makes you the center of attention. Overall this is MY favorite class to play out of my 5 characters.

[Hamervelder]

Agreed on all points with the previous posters.  Soloing rocks with SK's.  Grouping is pretty easy, although some people do have the idea that SK's can't hold agro.  Raiding... that's another story.  My guild happens to have a policy of "if you show up on time and there's room, you go."  So I get to go on every raid.  Most raiding guilds, however, only take a couple of plate-wearing tanks with them, and SK is not at the top of the list of desired classes.  Dirge, troubadour, priests, and enchanters are all highly sought-after raiding classes, if that's what you really want to do.<div></div>

[Nhuman]

<DIV>Yeah not an easy thing to find what class I want to play, the SK is the first one that ive noticed can take on more than 1 mob and not be screwed.  Casters get the chain spell but in reality it breaks way to easy even at adept 3 for it to be reliable CC.  I liked my ranger but there didnt seem to be much "Range" involved.  You hit the mob from a couple yards with 2 or 3 range attacks then your back to standard rogue fighting praying your stuns get off.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I guess another thing I want is the ability to kill more than just single targets.  Maybe it was just me not understanding all of the class dynamics but my summoner and ranger seemed to have issues if there was more than one mob involved.  The only other class that ive tried that seemed to handle it well was the summoner.  With an adept or app4 pet i seemed to be able to have him tank 2 while i let one beat on me for a bit.  Nuke one down and drag the other one onto my pet.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also at what level do you really get a feel for the various classes ive heard in the high 20's but that seems bit of a way to go before you decide if you like it or not.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thanks for all the help</DIV>

[Hamervelder]

<div><blockquote><hr>Nhuman wrote:<div>Yeah not an easy thing to find what class I want to play, the SK is the first one that ive noticed can take on more than 1 mob and not be screwed.  Casters get the chain spell but in reality it breaks way to easy even at adept 3 for it to be reliable CC.  I liked my ranger but there didnt seem to be much "Range" involved.  You hit the mob from a couple yards with 2 or 3 range attacks then your back to standard rogue fighting praying your stuns get off.  </div> <div> </div> <div>I guess another thing I want is the ability to kill more than just single targets.  Maybe it was just me not understanding all of the class dynamics but my summoner and ranger seemed to have issues if there was more than one mob involved.  The only other class that ive tried that seemed to handle it well was the summoner.  With an adept or app4 pet i seemed to be able to have him tank 2 while i let one beat on me for a bit.  Nuke one down and drag the other one onto my pet.  </div> <div> </div> <div>Also at what level do you really get a feel for the various classes ive heard in the high 20's but that seems bit of a way to go before you decide if you like it or not.</div> <div> </div> <div>Thanks for all the help</div><hr></blockquote>If sheer survivability is high on your list, paladin is a better choice than sk.  SK'd have more dps, but paladins have better defense and, of course, several heals.</div>

[Ookie]

Paladin stay alive longer? hah!  FD ftw! hehehe

[Nicholai24]

Paladins can hold aggro. reasonably well on one or two groups of enemies, and their survivability is roughly on par with an SK at Level 70. After Death March changes made it Live on LU27, both our aggro. control and our raid desireability went up dramatically, and we had no real problems in either field to begin with, aside from 'L2p' and some lingering stigma that SKs are poor tanks. Shadowknights are the most complex tanking class in the game, but a shadowknight in the right hands will cause your group to never, ever group with guardians or berserkers over you.As for paladins being chosen over you.. Lol. ' Whoo, I have Amends. 'Yeah. Woo. I have an AE 15,000+ Threat taunt that has no limit to maximum targets, increases spellhaste and DPS, makes my group immune to all control effects, and refreshes with every enemy killed, allowing me to pull swarms of 12 - 16 enemies at once. My groups all parse 30% - 50% more damage per combat when my class specific abilities are in effect. I can self-heal with the power of a Level 60 Cleric, I have 4 Rescues, I can DPS for 1,000+ in group, solo, and raid situations, debuff enemy physical resistance for 2 minutes...Yeah. You'll have no problem getting into a raiding guild. Even min-maxxers are hiring out new SKs, now. Enjoy the class. It cured my altitis, too.3 years, and loving it.<div></div>

[Norrsken]

<div></div><div><blockquote><hr>Hamervelder wrote:<div><blockquote><hr>Nhuman wrote:<div>Yeah not an easy thing to find what class I want to play, the SK is the first one that ive noticed can take on more than 1 mob and not be screwed.  Casters get the chain spell but in reality it breaks way to easy even at adept 3 for it to be reliable CC.  I liked my ranger but there didnt seem to be much "Range" involved.  You hit the mob from a couple yards with 2 or 3 range attacks then your back to standard rogue fighting praying your stuns get off.  </div> <div> </div> <div>I guess another thing I want is the ability to kill more than just single targets.  Maybe it was just me not understanding all of the class dynamics but my summoner and ranger seemed to have issues if there was more than one mob involved.  The only other class that ive tried that seemed to handle it well was the summoner.  With an adept or app4 pet i seemed to be able to have him tank 2 while i let one beat on me for a bit.  Nuke one down and drag the other one onto my pet.  </div> <div> </div> <div>Also at what level do you really get a feel for the various classes ive heard in the high 20's but that seems bit of a way to go before you decide if you like it or not.</div> <div> </div> <div>Thanks for all the help</div><hr></blockquote>If sheer survivability is high on your list, paladin is a better choice than sk.  SK'd have more dps, but paladins have better defense and, of course, several heals.</div><hr></blockquote>Uhm, well, sks dont have heals, but they have some kickass lifetaps.2 solo target ones, 1 aoe one (75% health from that one) and the proc one. (Plus some lowlife buffs that procs a small lifetap once in a while)... We have quite the survivability too. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />In PvP, I generally kill pallies by outlasting them. but that might be connected to their lower dps...</div><p>Message Edited by roxer2b on <span class=date_text>09-18-2006</span> <span class=time_text>01:10 AM</span>

[Norrsken]

<div><blockquote><hr>Hamervelder wrote:Agreed on all points with the previous posters.  Soloing rocks with SK's.  Grouping is pretty easy, <b>although some people do have the idea that SK's can't hold agro</b>.  Raiding... that's another story.  My guild happens to have a policy of "if you show up on time and there's room, you go."  So I get to go on every raid.  Most raiding guilds, however, only take a couple of plate-wearing tanks with them, and SK is not at the top of the list of desired classes.  Dirge, troubadour, priests, and enchanters are all highly sought-after raiding classes, if that's what you really want to do.<div></div><hr></blockquote>Yeah, ran into that quite a bit. Nowadays, I have a small possy of people pulling me along to MT pickup raids because I never drop aggro. Ever. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> So, work on your reputation as a good tank, and you will get into groups and the occasional raid.</div>

[Hamervelder]

<div><blockquote><hr>roxer2b wrote:<div></div><div><blockquote><hr>Hamervelder wrote:<div><blockquote><hr>Nhuman wrote:<div>Yeah not an easy thing to find what class I want to play, the SK is the first one that ive noticed can take on more than 1 mob and not be screwed.  Casters get the chain spell but in reality it breaks way to easy even at adept 3 for it to be reliable CC.  I liked my ranger but there didnt seem to be much "Range" involved.  You hit the mob from a couple yards with 2 or 3 range attacks then your back to standard rogue fighting praying your stuns get off.  </div> <div> </div> <div>I guess another thing I want is the ability to kill more than just single targets.  Maybe it was just me not understanding all of the class dynamics but my summoner and ranger seemed to have issues if there was more than one mob involved.  The only other class that ive tried that seemed to handle it well was the summoner.  With an adept or app4 pet i seemed to be able to have him tank 2 while i let one beat on me for a bit.  Nuke one down and drag the other one onto my pet.  </div> <div> </div> <div>Also at what level do you really get a feel for the various classes ive heard in the high 20's but that seems bit of a way to go before you decide if you like it or not.</div> <div> </div> <div>Thanks for all the help</div><hr></blockquote>If sheer survivability is high on your list, paladin is a better choice than sk.  SK'd have more dps, but paladins have better defense and, of course, several heals.</div><hr></blockquote>Uhm, well, sks dont have heals, but they have some kickass lifetaps.2 solo target ones, 1 aoe one (75% health from that one) and the proc one. (Plus some lowlife buffs that procs a small lifetap once in a while)... We have quite the survivability too. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />In PvP, I generally kill pallies by outlasting them. but that might be connected to their lower dps...</div><p>Message Edited by roxer2b on <span class="date_text">09-18-2006</span> <span class="time_text">01:10 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote>Yeah, I'm aware of our lifetaps bro.   <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  They're nowhere near as effective as pally heals though.  Still, they're better than nothing.</div>

[Norrsken]

<div><blockquote><hr>Hamervelder wrote:<div><blockquote><hr>roxer2b wrote:<div></div><div><blockquote><hr>Hamervelder wrote:<div><blockquote><hr>Nhuman wrote:<div>Yeah not an easy thing to find what class I want to play, the SK is the first one that ive noticed can take on more than 1 mob and not be screwed.  Casters get the chain spell but in reality it breaks way to easy even at adept 3 for it to be reliable CC.  I liked my ranger but there didnt seem to be much "Range" involved.  You hit the mob from a couple yards with 2 or 3 range attacks then your back to standard rogue fighting praying your stuns get off.  </div> <div> </div> <div>I guess another thing I want is the ability to kill more than just single targets.  Maybe it was just me not understanding all of the class dynamics but my summoner and ranger seemed to have issues if there was more than one mob involved.  The only other class that ive tried that seemed to handle it well was the summoner.  With an adept or app4 pet i seemed to be able to have him tank 2 while i let one beat on me for a bit.  Nuke one down and drag the other one onto my pet.  </div> <div> </div> <div>Also at what level do you really get a feel for the various classes ive heard in the high 20's but that seems bit of a way to go before you decide if you like it or not.</div> <div> </div> <div>Thanks for all the help</div><hr></blockquote>If sheer survivability is high on your list, paladin is a better choice than sk.  SK'd have more dps, but paladins have better defense and, of course, several heals.</div><hr></blockquote>Uhm, well, sks dont have heals, but they have some kickass lifetaps.2 solo target ones, 1 aoe one (75% health from that one) and the proc one. (Plus some lowlife buffs that procs a small lifetap once in a while)... We have quite the survivability too. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />In PvP, I generally kill pallies by outlasting them. but that might be connected to their lower dps...</div><p>Message Edited by roxer2b on <span class="date_text">09-18-2006</span> <span class="time_text">01:10 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote>Yeah, I'm aware of our lifetaps bro.   <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  They're nowhere near as effective as pally heals though.  Still, they're better than nothing.</div><hr></blockquote>Maybe not...I never played a pally long enough. I just cant stick with them, because they are so frikkin boring. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Just never lost a fight to a pally, and Im not bursting them to death.</div>

[SageGaspar]

<div></div>I got a 38 SK that I've been working up in the last week or so. Soloing is lots of fun and pretty easy.Group tanking, although I've heard it gets better later, has been a little ugly. I'm not into wasting large amounts of money so I went with the standard Adept 1 kit with Master II taunts as soon as they were available, and aggro is an issue. I can put up my reactive pre-pull, go OOP cycling taunts and doing DPS in offensive stance, and stuff still peels fairly frequently. I've levelled a guardian, bruiser, swashbuckler, and zerker up to 40+ with the bruiser and swashy 60+, and none of them had issues holding aggro like this. Just a warning that I'm sure it gets better with ancient teachings and such, but you might have a rocky start with aggro.EDIT: By the way, if you're offensively-minded, I'd think twice about pally. I love tanking, and they bore me silly, hehe. Their huge hate generator is a passive hate transfer on someone else in the group with big aggro, their heals and wards are defensive instead of offensive, etc. Pallies are wonderful, but not for everyone, hehe.<div></div><p>Message Edited by SageGaspar on <span class=date_text>09-18-2006</span> <span class=time_text>06:58 AM</span>

[Nicholai24]

You'll have aggro. issues if you don't upgrade past Adept 1, and your group is using Master / AdIII level attacks. That's just game mechanics.<div></div>

[CHIMPNOODLE.]

<DIV> <DIV>1.  Soloability, groupign is great interacting with people is what an MMO is about, but at the same time in RL just like in game there are times when you wanna do something on your own or dont have time for a group, but would still ike to feel like you accomplished something.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>-Soloability is quite good. Strong lifetaps, good mitigation, couple decent ranged attacks that let you pop off some DoTs early after snaring....feign death and evac. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>2.  Group Viability:  Being a good soloer typically means your class or you have very limited group skills/abilities.  The skills are my issue but the abilities that benefit the group are in class design imo <IMG height=16 src="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif" width=16 border=0></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>-Nice group benefits, huge DPS booster, decent AOE dammage, FD excellent for saving groupmates and/preventing complete wipes, strong snare, one of the best (if not *the best*) mitigation and disease debuffs in game, evac, couple fairly nice buffs. Strong tank, excellent backup tank.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>3.  Funfactor:  Kinda hard to get advice on but everyone knows which classes that are just a chore to level.  And to be honest ive played way to many of those up until now and id like to avoid that again.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>-I find SK an absolute blast. Great spell/CA animations...lot of versatility. They have style and power <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> It's my favorite class of all the ones I've tried....by far.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I do find there is some bias out there from the min/maxers for raiding but it did not affect my chances really. How that transalates for you future is hard to say. Depends at what point you join a guild, what their roster looks like, and what their attitude towards SKs is. In my guild,  my SK is the best raid-geared plate tank so I am always MT pretty much( unless we desperately need one of my alt classes more). I am also our guilds raid leader though, and am fully aware that well geared SKs can tank any of the zones we are currently hitting. I'm also raiding with a guild alliance of 7 or 8 other guilds on off-nights. The MT is a guardian and I've been second tank for some time. I often get to step in and take over during our raids, or do a lot of split /off-tanking. Also,  if the MT cannot make it for whatever reason, I am MT. As far as pickup raids go (if you jump into any of them)...if you want to tank and are obviously the best equipped to do the job, most likely you will be tanking if the raid organizer has any clue to what SKs are capable of. Anyway, just letting ya know there are opportunities out there, regardless if a good number of people do not consider SKs their #1 choice for MT.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV></DIV><p>Message Edited by CHIMPNOODLE. on <span class=date_text>09-18-2006</span> <span class=time_text>06:11 AM</span>

[Beldin_]

I was 2 time through Runnyeye from 39 to 41 and had no problems there .. nobody of the group ever died <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> We even killed the endmob when he was orange to all others in the group and high yellow for me (mob = 44, me =40, party=38-39) with our group of SK,Fury,Defiler,Brigand <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[SageGaspar]

No one's dying in my groups either, the mobs continue to scatter though. When the first mob dies and instantly three others turn to the monk ten levels under you who the mobs are orange to, and the 30 fury that's put out maybe one healing spell and the mobs are also orange to, something's up with the aggro. That's not an SK issue though, it happens for all the subclasses.<div></div>

[Hamervelder]

<div><blockquote><hr>SageGaspar wrote:No one's dying in my groups either, the mobs continue to scatter though. When the first mob dies and instantly three others turn to the monk ten levels under you who the mobs are orange to, and the 30 fury that's put out maybe one healing spell and the mobs are also orange to, something's up with the aggro. That's not an SK issue though, it happens for all the subclasses.<div></div><hr></blockquote>Yep.  This problem really got bad after LU24 or LU25.  Mobs seem to clear their hate lists for no apparent reason.  Often, if you get out of melee range, ie, more than a few meters, the mobs will clear their hate list and go after someone else.  I've also had mobs that I just body pulled and taunted, suddenly run right past me and attack the healer, who had done <i>nothing</i> but stand there.  There are clearly some issues (and have been for some time) with agro and hate generation.</div>

[Kazander13]

Get this issue a lot when duo'ing. But I think it's normal to a degree.  When my wife (defiler) has wards and reactive spells on me and I body pull, and only when I body pull, that happens. If I start with a damage or taunt I never get that. Sometimes being grouped with other caster classes that have reactives give that effect as well. I tend to think of it as sort of a pre aggro in a sense lol and just taunt shortly after body pulling when I am at a safe range.

[Norrsken]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> SageGaspar wrote:<BR><BR>I think SKs get a bad grouping reputation in part the same way brawlers do -- lots of people roll them and don't want to tank at all, and when a group tries to shoehorn them into tanking it's sort of a disaster. I know an SK that didn't group between 40 and 55 because she was scared they'd make her tank hehe. The same way I know coercers who've made it to 70 and think their primary purpose in a group is crowd control (yes, I broke your mezz, and I'd do it again if I had the chance!).<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I agree with your opinion there, though, there are also a lot of sks out there that likes to tank, but simply didnt care to learn about their class. Heck, I've taught a few how to do it. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> (Both solo and group) They just play it as a zerker, and cant for the life of them understand why they cant keep aggro... </P> <P>And on a side note, on my coercer, if you broke my mezzes, I wouldnt give a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]. It is my main job in most groups, but its more of a service to the tank and healers, if the tank (Or whomever it is that does it) I couldnt care less. I'm always the one that leaves any fight that goes wrong alive (CC for ever), and I can enjoy being a halfassed nuker mage too for some time. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I play this game to have fun. People breaking some silly mez wont ruin my fun. And really, I do too sometimes break those stuck up chanters mezzes. (You all know which type Im speaking of, the ones with a 3 mile long macro calling down armageddon on whomever breaks their godly mez)<BR></P>

[Kelkirra]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> roxer2b wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> SageGaspar wrote:<BR><BR>I think SKs get a bad grouping reputation in part the same way brawlers do -- lots of people roll them and don't want to tank at all, and when a group tries to shoehorn them into tanking it's sort of a disaster. I know an SK that didn't group between 40 and 55 because she was scared they'd make her tank hehe. The same way I know coercers who've made it to 70 and think their primary purpose in a group is crowd control (yes, I broke your mezz, and I'd do it again if I had the chance!).<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I agree with your opinion there, though, there are also a lot of sks out there that likes to tank, but simply didnt care to learn about their class. Heck, I've taught a few how to do it. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> (Both solo and group) They just play it as a zerker, and cant for the life of them understand why they cant keep aggro... </P> <P>And on a side note, on my coercer, if you broke my mezzes, I wouldnt give a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]. It is my main job in most groups, but its more of a service to the tank and healers, if the tank (Or whomever it is that does it) I couldnt care less. I'm always the one that leaves any fight that goes wrong alive (CC for ever), and I can enjoy being a halfassed nuker mage too for some time. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I play this game to have fun. People breaking some silly mez wont ruin my fun. And really, I do too sometimes break those stuck up chanters mezzes. (You all know which type Im speaking of, the ones with a 3 mile long macro calling down armageddon on whomever breaks their godly mez)<BR></P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>A bit off topic, but you spank it you tank it I say. /nod

[Kazander13]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Sarasoon wrote:<BR> A bit off topic, but you spank it you tank it I say. /nod<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>[Removed for Content] that needs to be a macro.</DIV>

[Beldin_]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> roxer2b wrote:<BR> <P>And on a side note, on my coercer, if you broke my mezzes, I wouldnt give a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]. It is my main job in most groups, but its more of a service to the tank and healers, if the tank (Or whomever it is that does it) I couldnt care less.</P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Hehe .. i hate it in Nec Castle 3 when i really need the mezzes and can't use my open AoEs .. but there with these 3 triple ^^^ encounters mezzes are really helpfull <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Kelkirra]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kazander13 wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Sarasoon wrote:<BR> A bit off topic, but you spank it you tank it I say. /nod<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>[Removed for Content] that needs to be a macro.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I duoed with a coercer back in the day and when we would group that WAS his macro for his mezzes =P. We held true to it as well because I was the one always breaking his mezzes <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.

[Jaice]

<P>I just want to input, as a 70 sk, 50 aa, with decked in tier 7 fabled / claymore, here is how its gonna be for end game sk playing.</P> <P>You in a group are extremely useful as a tank, but youll find that on raids, you are much more limited to your usability then other tnak classes.  If you are in a guild with a wealth of players and classes to choose from, the only class that will sit out more then you (unless you are EXTREMELY skilled with your class for dps) is the 5th fury.</P> <P>unfortunately there is nothing an sk does, that another class does not do better, and when you have 24 slots to fill, as long as that class is available to perform its task then you are not needed.  I am a very integral part of my current guild, helped build it from nothing and helped push us into deathtoll.  But even now I know that when it comes down to it, my presence on raids now is almost purely generosity.  As many much more usefull classes are often sat out for me, as I am a more senior member.</P> <P>ps, this was written in a moment of class loathing, so take it as you will but realize there is some truth behind it.  grouping alone will wear out, raiding is all tahts left in the end game.</P>

[CHIMPNOODLE.]

<DIV>"unfortunately there is nothing an sk does, that another class does not do better, and when you have 24 slots to fill, as long as that class is available to perform its task then you are not needed. "</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm sorry you're down on your class a bit...seriously. I do respectfully dissagree with a few things though. If not the raid MT....I believe many SKs are a superior choice to a lot of non-SK MTs and backup tanks. Part of it is gear choices, part is AA setups, and another part of it is skill.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Not only that, the majority of guilds that raid do not have a wealth of all classes available for all their raids (and often fill a spot or 2 here and there as well).  Most also have classes in varying degrees of end game gear that affect the choice of tank line ups.</DIV>