New AA setup, anyone else try this one?

[Zanix]

<DIV>So I posted a thread about filling our WIS line rather than the typical STA/INT lines. Noticed personally that the WIS line was only helping out the group so minorly that the HP/PWR regen were a waste of AA investment.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Read a bunch of posts about STA line, and, decided still, not to full it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I went a whole different road with my AA points, and I am liking what I am seeing. Filling INT line& Filling STA line for the hammer ground spell.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>best move was....In STR, I filled enough so that I have a passive 18% melee haste, and with swiftaxe, I get a 24% melee haste.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>because I have much better procs/dps with 2hs, I simply made an extra hotbar, with my 2hs, hammer, and axe on it. I click the axe to get the haste buff, If swarmed with ADDs I will swap for hammer ground... and after each...return to my 2hs.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>current line</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>STR  5 5 8 0 0 </STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG>AGI   1 0 0 0 0</STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG>STA   4 1 0 0 0</STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG>WIS   0 0 0 0 0</STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG>INT    7 4 8 1 0</STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>EDIT::::</STRONG></DIV> <DIV>After much experimentation, and self experience... I changed my AAs about 2 weeks ago. Based SOLELY on what I saw and benefited from, rather than "SO-AND-SO said this is better way"...I am shooting lots and lots of dps</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <DIV><STRONG>STR  4 5 8 0 0 </STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG>AGI   0 0 0 0 0</STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG>STA   4 4 8 0 0</STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG>WIS   0 0 0 0 0</STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG>INT   5 4 8 0 0</STRONG></DIV></DIV> <P>Message Edited by Zanix on <SPAN class=date_text>09-11-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>08:42 AM</SPAN> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P><p>Message Edited by Zanix on <span class=date_text>09-28-2006</span> <span class=time_text>09:40 AM</span>

[Nicholai24]

I'd lose anything in one of the 'Statistic Increase' powers which exceeds 4. There's no real need for it, because anything from potions to spells to equipment will more than make up for the loss, truth to tell.The melee haste is fine, but as most of a shadowknight's DPS comes from spells ( an 80% / 20% ratio, or nearly.. ), your haste will not make much of a difference in terms of damage output. What it will do is make it harder to time spells between autoattacks ( when you're casting, you're not swinging. If your delay is lower than 2.0, you're missing autoattack swings to cast. Damage lost. ). What made strength popular, really, was the final power ( spellhaste / reload timer buff of 10% ), and passive hate increase.However, with the revamp of Death March, I'm actually considering dropping the Strength line for the stamina path. DM = all the Hate I need.My current build is quite functional, however:Str: 4/4/4/4/8Sta: 4/5 (2.4 second duration hammer ground, 10% harder to resist )Intel: 4/4/8 ( 68% Spellhaste ).<div></div>

[Zanix]

<P>I'm seeing that quoted in many places on the forums.</P> <P>It seems although i dont see the actual animation of a melee swing...I am putting out melee dmg, even while spells are being casted...</P> <P> </P> <P>outlined dmg = magic dmg</P> <P>no outline = melee dmg</P> <P>correct? if that's the case, how come either way, I see melee just as often?</P> <P><STRONG><U>I stand firm to believe that magic/casting won't infuence melee timing.</U></STRONG></P> <P> </P>

[Zanix]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Nicholai24 wrote:<BR><BR><BR>Intel: 4/4/8 ( 68% Spellhaste ).<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>you mean 68% chance to crit. </P> <P> </P>

[Arieneth]

<div><blockquote><hr>Zanix wrote:<div></div><p><strong><u>I stand firm to believe that magic/casting won't infuence melee timing.</u></strong></p> <hr></blockquote>you are wrong.</div>

[satanboy]

<DIV>its funny you picked this its actually very similar to the build I had in mind, hammer ground is an amazing ability, I really love it not only for PVE but in PVP, its so great to just hammer ground in the enemies backline, stunning all their casters and healers at once.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm going int right now to fill up the +8 to int spot so I get some buffs in that regard then I'm going full on str after that.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm sticking to 4 in each thing to try stuff out then I'm going to tweak things once I hit 70.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm only at 10 AA right now, but I can already see a huge difference at 45.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>. . . now to finish those other collection quests and get up to 15 . . .</DIV>

[Nicholai24]

Don't believe me? Try casting a Wrath spell while using a quick one-hander. See if you autoattack until the spell fires.And yes, I meant crits.<div></div>

[Nocifer Deathblade]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Venymous wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Zanix wrote:<BR> <BR> <P><STRONG><U>I stand firm to believe that magic/casting won't infuence melee timing.</U></STRONG></P> <P> </P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>you are wrong.<BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Venymous is correct.   Zanix, if you wanna more proof.. Go play Mage class with LONNGGGG cast time. Go try to swing melee during LONG cast time. It'll just stop your swing completely til you let your spell off then will swing right after..  Thrusting dagger for 1.6 sec and cast charm (6 sec), you will see that you can't even thrust dagger for entire 6 seconds..  So, that would make you a dlsbeliever of your previous comment. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> It can be little harder for Sk to notice cuz of the nature of many fast casting CAs and spells that SK has.. </P> <P>Meleeing won't influence magic/casting timing would be a true statement. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Magic casting always is higher priority of combat sequence over melee. </P>

[No]

<P>Looks like a Totally not raid geared Shadowknight.  Maybe good for you but most of the shadowknights would loose cause we max out our stats in a raid setups.  My Tip is work to get better geared or maybe try to find a better raiding guild</P> <P> </P>

[CHIMPNOODLE.]

It's most often DoTs from previous CAs that seem like melee dammage beeing done during following cast times.

[Ultimatum]

<div><blockquote><hr>Zanix wrote:<div></div><p><strong><u>I stand firm to believe that magic/casting won't infuence melee timing.</u></strong></p> <hr></blockquote>Wow...so how much did you spend on eBay for your account again?</div>

[Zanix]

<DIV><BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Razerblaze wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Zanix wrote:<BR> <P><STRONG><U>I stand firm to believe that magic/casting won't infuence melee timing.</U></STRONG></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Wow...so how much did you spend on eBay for your account again?<BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV><BR>Dude, go bank to farming cloud pads with your x3 raid....griefing the same green/grey players in barren sky. You're a $#%@ joke....You constantly come on these boards and try to bash people with your attitude....add me to the list who wish you'd just shut it. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You think I have an ebayed account? well listen hey bub,...we play on the same server, so...I challenge you  1-on-1 ANY NIGHT......see who's ebay'd???</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>anyway, back to the "discusssion"...I only said this because I am seeing a hell of a lot more dmg in both melee and magic. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Ultimatum]

<div><blockquote><hr>Zanix wrote:<div></div> <div>Dude, go bank to farming cloud pads with your x3 raid....griefing the same green/grey players in barren sky. You're a $#%@ joke....You constantly come on these boards and try to bash people with your attitude....add me to the list who wish you'd just shut it. </div> <div> </div> <div>You think I have an ebayed account? well listen hey bub,...we play on the same server, so...I challenge you  1-on-1 ANY NIGHT......see who's ebay'd???</div> <div> </div> <div> </div> <div>anyway, back to the "discusssion"...I only said this because I am seeing a hell of a lot more dmg in both melee and magic. </div> <div> </div><hr></blockquote>Farming cloud pads eh?  Yeah, I can see how travelling to a raid instance can be misconstrued as farming cloud pads to the untrained eye, but as has been stated many times before, there are only 3 reasons we are even near a cloud pad:  We just landed and are waiting for others, we are flying from said cloud pad, or we just revived or evaced.  Notice how "farming cloud pads" is NOT one of those 3 things.  Anyway, show me where I "constantly come on these boards and try to bash people with my 'attitude'" and please, give me the rest of this list of people who wish I would "shut it" because as far as I know you are the only one on the list.  I am constantly helping new SKs with their questions, as well as adding my input to the SK class seeing as how I played an SK as my main since EQ2 launched.  In fact, I can almost guarentee that my constant bashing of Death March helped in getting it changed into the awesome spell it now is, seeing how not one but ALL of the changes have been suggested almost exclusively by me numerous times since DoF launched so trying to turn the tables on who is "eBayed" isn't going to work here.  The fact that you bolded that comment about autoattacking while casting spells lends one to believe that you have some sort of clue as to what you are talking about, which you obviosly did not, so I commented on it in the only way I thought relevant considering the circumstances.  Sorry if I hurt your feelings or ego.  As for challenging me 1 on 1, when I'm 70 I have no problem with that, but I'm not enough of an idiot to try and fight you 1 on 1 at 64.  As for "I was only saying that because..." maybe asking a question instead of bolding your comment as if it were fact would have resulted in a different reaction as apparently I am not the only person to disagree with you.  But hey, feel free to continue posting to further the assumption as to which of us has a clue <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div>

[Zanix]

<P></P> <HR> In fact, I can almost guarentee that my constant bashing of Death March helped in getting it changed into the awesome spell it now is <P></P> <HR> <P> </P> <P>me??? ego???? get the hell off your horse, this isn't about YOU....</P> <P>you seem to know all, yet you have 2 low 60 toons, IMO you haven't even experienced end game yet. I post upon what I DO know, and what I've seen with my own eyes.... you <EM>tried to</EM> bash people on the SK pvp thread, but...you've never played a SK in pvp.As far as you're cloud humping tactics....go ahead check out your own recruitment theads....every one of them is on whisperwind...cloud pad. I've only seen your "PVP guild" in KOS..on cloud pads, bouncing from 1 to the next....c'mon, grouping with 16 other people and sweeping across norrath all night will give ANYONE  good pvp stats....</P>

[Ultimatum]

<div><blockquote><hr>Zanix wrote:<div></div> <p></p><p></p><p>me??? ego???? get the hell off your horse, this isn't about YOU....</p> <p>you seem to know all, yet you have 2 low 60 toons, IMO you haven't even experienced end game yet. I post upon what I DO know, and what I've seen with my own eyes.... you <em>tried to</em> bash people on the SK pvp thread, but...you've never played a SK in pvp.As far as you're cloud humping tactics....go ahead check out your own recruitment theads....every one of them is on whisperwind...cloud pad. I've only seen your "PVP guild" in KOS..on cloud pads, bouncing from 1 to the next....c'mon, grouping with 16 other people and sweeping across norrath all night will give ANYONE  good pvp stats....</p><hr></blockquote>I'm not making this about me at all...I was merely retalliating to your misconcieved views about me "bashing" people on the SK boards when that is certainly not the case as I follow the boards while I'm bored at work to lend a helping hand or complain about something I feel is wrong, even if it is opposed by others on these very boards.  If I'm wrong I have no problem admitting it...in this case, however, I am not.As for 2 low 60s toons, I don't know where you got this info but I have 1 mid 60s toon and 1 70 SK which I played for almost 2 years and I assure you I have experienced my fair share of end game content, why that was brought up in this thread reguarding AAs and autoattack I have no idea.  As for "bashing" people on the SK pvp thread, where is this thread you speak of?  I don't have to "play" an SK on pvp to add my insight to the class, especially when one of my best friends plays an SK in pvp on a nightly basis and can (and will) set me straight if I say something that is completely wrong, so trying to throw that in my face isn't going to work either, sorry to dissapoint.  As for the whole cloud car thing, I'm not even commenting further because you are obviosly speaking out of your [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn], and I'm not trying to bring pvp banter to the SK Class boards...save it for the Ven boards.What I find funny is, you spread this slander of me bashing people when all you've done the last 3 posts is single me out to try and have a battle of wits even though you are obviosly unarmed.  How about getting back on topic, or just deleting this topic seeing how your thoughts and assumptions just flew out the window...better go catch them!</div>

[Arieneth]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Zanix wrote:<BR> <P></P> <HR> In fact, I can almost guarentee that my constant bashing of Death March helped in getting it changed into the awesome spell it now is <P></P> <HR> <P> </P> <P>me??? ego???? get the hell off your horse, this isn't about YOU....</P> <P>you seem to know all, yet you have 2 low 60 toons, IMO you haven't even experienced end game yet. I post upon what I DO know, and what I've seen with my own eyes.... you <EM>tried to</EM> bash people on the SK pvp thread, but...you've never played a SK in pvp.As far as you're cloud humping tactics....go ahead check out your own recruitment theads....every one of them is on whisperwind...cloud pad. I've only seen your "PVP guild" in KOS..on cloud pads, bouncing from 1 to the next....c'mon, grouping with 16 other people and sweeping across norrath all night will give ANYONE  good pvp stats....</P>  <BR>  <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>well, last night we saw <EM>you</EM> and your x2 raid in Shin. wait...let me correct myself...i saw your x2 raid and i saw you run to the bell while the rest fought and died. you wanna know why we have good pvp stats? take what you did...do the opposite...you have us (and those of your raid that fought). good job tho, im sure some people find honor in leaving their guildmates.</P> <P>please get educated before posting your mindless drivel. you posted about your AA's and people's thoughts on them. people gave you facts about game mechanics and you say "i stand by my belief that auto attack doesnt effect spell casting." a completely wrong statement refuting advice that veteran SK were giving. you obviously have no idea how the game works, or the class for that matter. you wasted AA points into straight stat bonuses and 1 into heal crits. i remember in another thread you said you didn't want to spec like every other SK. well...fact is, most SK's choose the same lines because they are the best fitting lines for the class. no point in being different when you can be better.</P> <P>as for running around with...16 people?...odd number, lets just say 12 people. we are exiled. meaning we are kill on sight to each other. we have to be raided to not kill each other. you won't us together unless we find another raid to fight. although, sometimes we'll fight as the underdog (you can ask Darvos about that one); outcomes may vary.</P> <P>whether or not Razer has played X class on a pvp server is irrelevant. all classes abide by the same pvp rules and mechanics. his knowledge of the SK class is top notch. having played one since launch, he knows the class inside and out. you don't need to play on a pvp server to know how to play your class well. knowledge of the class is knowledge of the class and it will follow you where you go with it. i also played an SK from the launch of the game. i rolled a new one on Venekor when it came out. i have over 140 levels of experience with an SK and it allows me to conclude that have no clue [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] is going when you log your character in. i'd be very interested to see how you parse in a raid zone.</P> <P>instead of sticking to what you think you know about the game/class, listen to those that try to help you become a respectable SK.</P>

[Zanix]

<DIV>you just have this impression that you know all, and well... I (for one) don't think you do.  You spewed your opinions all over the SK pvp thread like you've been on Ven since day 1 (like i have) then you jump over to MY thread where I ask fellow SKs (which you are not) their opinion about my new AA structure...and have the balls to comment with that ebay crap. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My thread is about how I am putting out LOTS more dmg since i changed up my AA lines. I am utilizing all the best asets of STR, STA, and INT. getting hammer bash, swiftaxe, and spell crits. My sword (a loot you will most likely not see for a few months) is swinging a lot more often, and perhaps I was wrong to think it swings mid cast. Simple mistake, but I never stuck to my guns...I can accept that. I am still learning the class, as are we all (besides you of course)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I played a SK in Eq live from beta until 1 year past POP. I played a SK on EQ2 from beta until venekor came out, and Now, I have my 3rd SK on Ven, which is lvl 70, 48 AAs, 70% master T7 spells and T7 fabled....yet you come on here as a wizard or whatever and throw in your 2 cents.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I don't like you, and I will make a point of it to throw a hefty HT up your [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] next time i run into you.</DIV>

[Zanix]

<P>2 peas in a pod here.</P> <P>your raid in shin was x3. our raid was mobilizing, and like any other typical raid, some straglers (including myself) ....I stayed at the bell, but when you see the health bars in the raid window all at 10%, and hear in Vent that there's 18 ememies still running about...you don't rush in like an idiot.</P> <P>As far as experience... I know my class.. I made an error. I have more experience than you, perhaps you might be better player, I never claimed to be great or good for that matter. You somehow snaked in the "im better than you" tactic....typical of you and yours. </P> <P>I raid tonight. </P> <P>And I will show you some parses.</P> <P> </P>

[Arieneth]

<P><BR> </P> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Zanix wrote:<BR> <P>2 peas in a pod here.</P> <P>your raid in shin was x3. our raid was mobilizing, and like any other typical raid, some straglers (including myself) ....I stayed at the bell, but when you see the health bars in the raid window all at 10%, and hear in Vent that there's 18 ememies still running about...you don't rush in like an idiot.</P> <P>As far as experience... I know my class.. I made an error. I have more experience than you, perhaps you might be better player, I never claimed to be great or good for that matter. You somehow snaked in the "im better than you" tactic....typical of you and yours. </P> <P>I raid tonight. </P> <P>And I will show you some parses.</P> <P> </P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR> </P> <P>EQ1 SK is not EQ live SK is not EQ2 SK.</P> <P>our shin raid was x2. we had just come out from killing the Crab. the following moments were spent repairing/banking. we killed a couple of you raid that were running around the docks. you zoned in and out a couple times, plenty of time to get immunity and meet with your own forces to fight back. then our tracker says more on track. a good chunk of your raid, over 6 ppl (as noted by my recent list) were standing across the way. that's when we fully engaged. but it's ok, some people value titles more than fighting alongside friends.</P> <P>i never said i was better than u. having not fought you i can't make that judgement. however, from the posts you make and choices you have made, i can easily tell that you could have made better choices. im not debating that your damage output has increased. the point of the responses in this thread were to show you that you could choose a better line and do even more damage. this is the advice you chose to ignore.</P>

[Trop]

<div><blockquote><hr>Zanix wrote:<div></div><div>current line</div> <div> </div> <div><strong>STR  5 5 8 0 0 </strong></div> <div><strong>AGI   1 0 0 0 0</strong></div> <div><strong>STA   4 1 0 0 0</strong></div> <div><strong>WIS   0 0 0 0 0</strong></div> <div><strong>INT    7 4 8 1 0</strong></div><p>Message Edited by Zanix on <span class="date_text">09-11-2006</span> <span class="time_text">08:42 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote>Well here are two obvious things that you really need to change.1. Dont put more than 4 points into the stat lines. Also remove the useless point in AGI.2. Im not sure if you know this or not, but SK's do not benefit from heal crits.There are more things you could change to get higher dps, but I guess your preference is not to have an optimum dps build.</div>

[Zarovi]

Alright you two guys just have a duel. You both are Sk's on the same server get together somewhere and fight it out. Then afterwards I will kill err fight the winner.

[Arieneth]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Zanix wrote:<BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My thread is about how I am putting out LOTS more dmg since i changed up my AA lines. I am utilizing all the best asets of STR, STA, and INT. getting hammer bash, swiftaxe, and spell crits. My sword (a loot you will most likely not see for a few months) is swinging a lot more often, and perhaps I was wrong to think it swings mid cast. Simple mistake, but I never stuck to my guns...I can accept that. I am still learning the class, as are we all (besides you of course)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I don't like you, and I will make a point of it to throw a hefty HT up your [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] next time i run into you.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>again, you assume our game knowledge is somewhere down with yours. please take this as an example for when u fight Razer:</P> <P><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff>Peekae tries to disease you with Pestilent Touch, but you resist.</FONT></SPAN></FONT></P> <P><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff>Peekae tries to disease you with Pestilent Touch, but you resist.</FONT></SPAN></FONT></P> <P><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff>Peekae tries to disease you with Pestilent Touch, but you resist.</FONT></SPAN></FONT></P> <P><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff>Peekae tries to disease you with Pestilent Touch, but you resist.</FONT></SPAN></FONT></P> <P><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff>Peekae tries to disease you with Pestilent Touch, but you resist.</FONT></SPAN></FONT></P> <P><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff>Peekae’s Pestilent Touch hits YOU for 1200 points of disease damage.</FONT></SPAN></FONT></P> <P><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff>YOUR [Enspelled Vultak Eye ward] absorbs 600 damage.</FONT></SPAN></FONT></P> <P><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff>YOUR [Gown of Glory ward] absorbs 350 damage.</FONT></SPAN></FONT></P> <P><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff>YOUR [AA ward] absorbs 300 damage.</FONT></SPAN></FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff>YOU take 50 damage</FONT></SPAN></FONT></FONT></P><p>Message Edited by Venymous on <span class=date_text>09-12-2006</span> <span class=time_text>11:51 AM</span>

[Zanix]

<DIV>by the time I zoned into shin, your "raid" was on the docks. Was i supposed to take on you all myself? I zoned for immunity, yes, then when i got to my guys, you all ran away (certain black and white bears where coming close) so yah, I like to fight pvp with my people somewhat near me.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I probobly will respec 1 more time. No one can claim they have the perfect AA specs, most people are just filling in skills because people tell them to. not me, I want to try different ways out, and see what benefits me and raid the best.</DIV> <DIV>This selection, is much better than the last...and the next one will be even better.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I use tap veins a ton, esp with new DM. It crits 100% of the time with the magic/heal crit i added. so with 4-5 mobs and 1400 dmg each...it adds some good dps</DIV>

[Xanoth]

<blockquote><hr>Tropic wrote:2. Im not sure if you know this or not, but SK's do not benefit from heal crits.<hr></blockquote>we do, but not overly worth it.someone explained it a while back and comapred with eq1 AA's

[Zanix]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Venymous wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Zanix wrote:<BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My thread is about how I am putting out LOTS more dmg since i changed up my AA lines. I am utilizing all the best asets of STR, STA, and INT. getting hammer bash, swiftaxe, and spell crits. My sword (a loot you will most likely not see for a few months) is swinging a lot more often, and perhaps I was wrong to think it swings mid cast. Simple mistake, but I never stuck to my guns...I can accept that. I am still learning the class, as are we all (besides you of course)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I don't like you, and I will make a point of it to throw a hefty HT up your [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] next time i run into you.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>again, you assume our game knowledge is somewhere down with yours. please take this as an example for when u fight Razer:</P> <P><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff>Peekae tries to disease you with Pestilent Touch, but you resist.</FONT></SPAN></FONT></P> <P><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff>Peekae tries to disease you with Pestilent Touch, but you resist.</FONT></SPAN></FONT></P> <P><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff>Peekae tries to disease you with Pestilent Touch, but you resist.</FONT></SPAN></FONT></P> <P><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff>Peekae tries to disease you with Pestilent Touch, but you resist.</FONT></SPAN></FONT></P> <P><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff>Peekae tries to disease you with Pestilent Touch, but you resist.</FONT></SPAN></FONT></P> <P><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff>Peekae’s Pestilent Touch hits YOU for 1200 points of disease damage.</FONT></SPAN></FONT></P> <P><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff>YOUR [Enspelled Vultak Eye ward] absorbs 600 damage.</FONT></SPAN></FONT></P> <P><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff>YOUR [Gown of Glory ward] absorbs 350 damage.</FONT></SPAN></FONT></P> <P><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff>YOUR [AA ward] absorbs 300 damage.</FONT></SPAN></FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff>YOU take 50 damage</FONT></SPAN></FONT></FONT></P> <P>Message Edited by Venymous on <SPAN class=date_text>09-12-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>11:51 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>lol....you mean he hopes. </P> <P>with 600+ str/int my HT usually lands 80% dmg in pvp. but i guess we'll see....i have other tricks up my gnome sleeves<BR></P>

[Arieneth]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Zanix wrote:<BR> <DIV>by the time I zoned into shin, your "raid" was on the docks. Was i supposed to take on you all myself? I zoned for immunity, yes, then when i got to my guys, you all ran away (certain black and white bears where coming close) so yah, I like to fight pvp with my people somewhat near me.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I probobly will respec 1 more time. No one can claim they have the perfect AA specs, most people are just filling in skills because people tell them to. not me, I want to try different ways out, and see what benefits me and raid the best.</DIV> <DIV>This selection, is much better than the last...and the next one will be even better.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I use tap veins a ton, esp with new DM. It crits 100% of the time with the magic/heal crit i added. so with 4-5 mobs and 1400 dmg each...it adds some good dps</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>considering you can't get 100% chance to crit anymore...im gonna go with, no it doesn't.

[Arieneth]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Zanix wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>lol....you mean he hopes. </P></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>with 600+ str/int my HT usually lands 80% dmg in pvp. but i guess we'll see....i have other tricks up my gnome sleeves<BR></P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>wow really? if i increase my str i do more dmg with HT? that so awesome. and to think this whole time i thought str increased melee damage and int increase magical damge. and better yet...if i increase my int PAST the int cap...i can do even more dmg! there is a newbie yard forum on main forum page. if you look around there might find some answers to some of those "duuuuuh" questions.</P> <P>do even bother to factor in resists? ill answer that...no, you dont. bah, what should i expect from the same SK who said "tanks dont tank in pvp."</P>

[Ultimatum]

<div></div><div><blockquote><hr>Zanix wrote:<div>you just have this impression that you know all, and well... I (for one) don't think you do.  You spewed your opinions all over the SK pvp thread like you've been on Ven since day 1 (like i have) then you jump over to MY thread where I ask fellow SKs (which you are not) their opinion about my new AA structure...and have the balls to comment with that ebay crap. </div> <div> </div> <div>My thread is about how I am putting out LOTS more dmg since i changed up my AA lines. I am utilizing all the best asets of STR, STA, and INT. getting hammer bash, swiftaxe, and spell crits. My sword (a loot you will most likely not see for a few months) is swinging a lot more often, and perhaps I was wrong to think it swings mid cast. Simple mistake, but I never stuck to my guns...I can accept that. I am still learning the class, as are we all (besides you of course)</div> <div> </div> <div>I played a SK in Eq live from beta until 1 year past POP. I played a SK on EQ2 from beta until venekor came out, and Now, I have my 3rd SK on Ven, which is lvl 70, 48 AAs, 70% master T7 spells and T7 fabled....yet you come on here as a wizard or whatever and throw in your 2 cents.</div> <div> </div> <div>I don't like you, and I will make a point of it to throw a hefty HT up your [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] next time i run into you.</div><hr></blockquote>I don't have any impression that I know all...I know what I know and I don't claim to know any more than that.  What SK pvp thread are you talking about that I "spewed my opinions in"?  I haven't been able to find it to even refer to [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] you are talking about....It certainly hasn't happened in the last 2 weeks so forgive me if I forgot.  As far as me not being an SK...: <a href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/en/pplayer.vm?characterId=105726104" target=_blank>Astovidatu</a> ...you must be a detective by trade!  While I haven't played him in a little while due to pvp coming out, it doesnt change the fact that I have played an SK since launch, which I said earlier, and I know how to play him well.  As for your AAs, as Arieneth said, people have commented yet you just ignore that fact and try to jump at my jugular instead of using the thread you made as a tool to learn more about your AA questions.  As for you "Sword" that is "a loot you will most likely not see for a few months" I hope you aren't talking about that Qeynos Claymore that you ametuerishly photoshopped into your sig, seeing as how noone on Venekor has completed the Claymore line yet.  If you are talking about another sword, I already have arguably the best SK "Sword" on my AB toon, Rak'Leko, and Arie over there has the overall best SK 2-hander in the game, which is the only one on the server at the moment, so I believe it is you that can take your earlier brash comment, reverse it to apply to yourself as if I said it, and then reread it.Another thing of point would be your bringing up your EQ1 SK, which has absolutely zero relevance to this thread or any topic discussed herein thus far, seeing as how the EQ2 SK, contrary to what you might think, is different than the EQ1 SK.  As far as comparing e-peens like you've just done, My SK is missing Pox Sword Master 1...thats it...so yeah, I believe my 2 cents is particularly relevant in that respect.  As far as gear, your Station page isnt available to compare, but I'll be the first to admit my SK wasnt the best geared, nor does he have 50 AAs due to my lack of wanting to grind them out knowing that I'd be headed to pvp.  Yet that still didnt stop me from soloing yellow heroics and white nameds.  That said, Please do post your parse of an entire raid zone...I'd be very interested to see how well your bite stands up to your bark.<b>I don't like you, and I will make a point of it to throw a hefty HT up your [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] next time i run into you.</b>/grabs a box of Kleenex.  Just remember...An SK that relies on HT is like a handicapped person relying on a wheelchair...if you need it to survive, you have no hope of ever walking. The minute you learn to function without using it as a crutch, however, is the beginning of a whole new, brighter future <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </div><p>Message Edited by Razerblaze on <span class=date_text>09-12-2006</span> <span class=time_text>03:14 PM</span>

[Zanix]

<P>words words words.</P> <P> </P> <P>tonight I will parse and show you both...what's up.</P> <P> </P>

[Xanoth]

while everyone likes a chance to defend themselves if something is said about or against them on public forums, but seriously take it to tells or to your server.wont be long before a GM gets involved at this rateedit: [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] keyboard missed random letters out <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><p>Message Edited by Xanoth on <span class=date_text>09-12-2006</span> <span class=time_text>08:16 PM</span>

[YummiOger]

<DIV>That is a sub-optimal DPS or Tank build..  what are u trying to do?.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Stats boosts r suboptimal cuz nicely equipted & buffed Str/Stam/Int are capped @ 500.</DIV>

[Ultimatum]

<div><blockquote><hr>YummiOger wrote:<div>That is a sub-optimal DPS or Tank build..  what are u trying to do?.</div> <div> </div> <div>Stats boosts r suboptimal cuz nicely equipted & buffed Str/Stam/Int are capped @ 500.</div><hr></blockquote>Actually the caps are 6 x (your level) + (base racial stats) so at 70 its 420 + the base stats of the race you chose, But your point is still valid...solely boosting skills with AA ponts is counter-productive.<div><blockquote><hr>Xanoth wrote:while everyone likes a chance to defend themselves if something is said about or against them on public forums, but seriously take it to tells or to your server.wont be long before a GM gets involved at this rate<hr></blockquote>Exactly why I've been trying not to instigate any more retaliation after defending myself, but that hasn't seemed to work <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div></div>

[Xanoth]

<blockquote><hr>Razerblaze wrote:Actually the caps are 6 x (your level) + (base racial stats) so at 70 its 420 + the base stats of the race you chose<hr></blockquote>7x level + basealthough eq2i is down, so can't link it

[Ultimatum]

<div><blockquote><hr>Xanoth wrote:<blockquote><hr>Razerblaze wrote:Actually the caps are 7 x (your level) + (base racial stats) so at 70 its 490 + the base stats of the race you chose<hr></blockquote>7x level + basealthough eq2i is down, so can't link it<hr></blockquote>*ninja changes the quote*  Haha I'm still stuck in T6 apparently where 420 was the cap haha I guess I was thinking 7x60 and reversed it.  I can't believe I overlooked that one...wow...oh well live and learn <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  Thanks for setting me straight hehe.</div>

[Nocifer Deathblade]

<P>Hehe. Lot of misinformation in this thread but some got corrected. </P> <P>Anyway, it reminds me of "NewTank" from <A href="http://www.evilgamer.net" target=_blank>www.evilgamer.net</A>  back during old times.. I feel like that I'm going thru the re-run. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> It made me wonder if Zanix is actually the same person? <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P>

[YummiOger]

<DIV>EH? WHAT?  Did someone say something? :smileyvery-happy:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Stuge]

<div><blockquote><hr>Nocifer Deathblade wrote:<div></div> <p>Hehe. Lot of misinformation in this thread but some got corrected. </p> <p>Anyway, it reminds me of "NewTank" from <a href="http://www.evilgamer.net" target="_blank">www.evilgamer.net</a>  back during old times.. I feel like that I'm going thru the re-run. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> It made me wonder if Zanix is actually the same person? <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><hr></blockquote>So /that's/ what happened to sk.org....[expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]...</div>

[Nocifer Deathblade]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P></P> <HR> Stugein wrote: <P> </P> <DIV>So /that's/ what happened to sk.org....[expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]...<BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Aye, thanks for the correction. I went thru Knight Watch  then <A href="http://www.sk.org/" target=_blank>www.sk.org</A> and now <A href="http://www.evilgamer.net/" target=_blank>www.evilgamer.net</A>. Gets confused which "events" belongs to heh.<BR>

[Zarovi]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Razerblaze wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE>I already have arguably the best SK "Sword" on my AB toon, Rak'Leko, and Arie over there has the overall best SK 2-hander in the game, which is the only one on the server at the moment,<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>I will correct you here. Neither one of those weapons, the Doomflight or a 2 handed Hammer from Temple of Scale is the best weapon in game or on the server. Gauldrek, Sword of Sky trumphs both of those. And yes I have the discovery for it <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR></DIV>

[Zanix]

<DIV>edit: I D K i likes mine better, heal proc is dandy...</DIV> <DIV><IMG src="http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y265/niluvani/doomblade.jpg">                <IMG src="http://dbms.ogamingmedia.com/eq2items/20696/image/gaudralek.jpg"></DIV> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P><p>Message Edited by Zanix on <span class=date_text>09-12-2006</span> <span class=time_text>03:35 PM</span>

[Arieneth]

<blockquote><hr>Zarovich wrote:<div> <blockquote> <hr> Razerblaze wrote: <div></div> <div> <blockquote>I already have arguably the best SK "Sword" on my AB toon, Rak'Leko, and Arie over there has the overall best SK 2-hander in the game, which is the only one on the server at the moment,</blockquote></div> <hr> </blockquote>I will correct you here. Neither one of those weapons, the Doomflight or a 2 handed Hammer from Temple of Scale is the best weapon in game or on the server. Gauldrek, Sword of Sky trumphs both of those. And yes I have the discovery for it <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div><hr></blockquote><img src="http://eq2.xanadu-community.com/eq2_loot_image.php?img_id=1108"><img src="http://eq2.xanadu-community.com/eq2_loot_image.php?img_id=1099">i seriously hope you are kidding [Removed for Content]. you actually think Gaudralek is better than the Vraksakin Claw Club? Vrak has .4 less DR and 225 dmg max over Gaudralek. Plus Vrak has a 4 second delay which is perfect for an SK. also, the proc on Vrak is off hostile spells. since SK's are spells based, not melee based, the Vrak proc will MUCH more than Gaudralek.<div></div>

[Zanix]

<DIV>howbout i trump you both with my discovery if we are playing this game</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><IMG src="http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/7278/axe4hb.jpg"><A href="http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/7278/axe4hb.jpg" target=_blank></A></DIV>

[Zarovi]

Yes Gualdrek has Higher Stats. 18 more Str, 15 more Stam, 7 more Int, 55 more health and 105 more Power. Ok your weapon has 1 more wisdom. The rating on Gualdrek is a tad better too. And the procs are very close so who knows on the winner there. The sword is higher lvl then the hammer too.So just like Armor, the closer to the mob the weapon is the more effective it is. Also did you notice your Hammer low end is a 1 damage? Gualdrek is 67. Sure your hammer is better delay but that alone does not make up for lower stats, lower rating, and lower lvl. And lets not even get into the coolness factor. Gualdrek could be the best looking weapon in game to boot.

[Arieneth]

<div></div><div><blockquote><hr>Zanix wrote:<div>howbout i trump you both with my discovery if we are playing this game</div> <div> </div> <div><img src="http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/7278/axe4hb.jpg"><a href="http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/7278/axe4hb.jpg" target="_blank"></a></div><hr></blockquote>this isnt about who discovered what. it's about which weapon is better. and that one is the worst of the 4 shown so far. plus its zerker/guard only and most zerkers/guards use buckler reversal aa line instead of a 2h weapon.btw...we're talking about SK's here...so grats on discovering a weapon you cant use.EDIT: doesnt change the fact that the weapon is still the worst of the 4.</div><p>Message Edited by Venymous on <span class=date_text>09-12-2006</span> <span class=time_text>03:57 PM</span>

[Zarovi]

Correction, The Dragon Bone Axe can be used by Sk's and Palys now. The pic is outdated and doesn't show it useable by Crusaders now.

[Arieneth]

<div><blockquote><hr>Zarovich wrote:<div></div>Yes Gualdrek has Higher Stats. 18 more Str, 15 more Stam, 7 more Int, 55 more health and 105 more Power. Ok your weapon has 1 more wisdom. The rating on Gualdrek is a tad better too. And the procs are very close so who knows on the winner there. The sword is higher lvl then the hammer too.So just like Armor, the closer to the mob the weapon is the more effective it is. Also did you notice your Hammer low end is a 1 damage? Gualdrek is 67. Sure your hammer is better delay but that alone does not make up for lower stats, lower rating, and lower lvl. And lets not even get into the coolness factor. Gualdrek could be the best looking weapon in game to boot.<hr></blockquote>good thing like i want to look like a bada$$ while im supposed to dealing damage. don't even mention .3 difference in damage rating; it's so miniscule it's irrelevant. the stats on the weapon are not a deciding factor either as with group buffs it's easy to cap the important stats for an SK, Int and to a lesser degree Str. but we have siphon strength which easily hits or tops the cap if we dont top out from buffs. the low end on Vrak my be lower, but the high side is so much drastically higher than the high on Gaudralek it will more than even out over a raid.also, you have a chance to proc every 2.5 seconds. mine has a chance to proc on every hostile spell, damage, debuff, mana sieve, etc. the majority of SK spells are .5-1 second in casting. even the longer 2 second casting time spells are quicker than the auto attack on Gaudralek. and, with Death March, Vrak gets twice the benefit. The spell haste helps the proc and the dps helps the auto attack. Gaudralek only benefits from the dps mod.</div>

[Zanix]

<DIV>it's an updated pic i suppose...SKs can wield it fine now.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>sounded to me like you were comparing proc effects, and which benefit SK most often.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>can u post a picture of the sword of sky wielded?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <P><SPAN class=time_text>of the 2 i parse MUCH higher with the sword, even tho it's DR is 10 lower than the axe</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by Zanix on <span class=date_text>09-12-2006</span> <span class=time_text>04:04 PM</span>

[Zanix]

<DIV>i think an important factor you typically miss is...how much are you really casting? I recollect once all my spells are cast, and I am waiting on refresh, I have a few good seconds for autoatk to kick in.</DIV>

[Arieneth]

<div><blockquote><hr>Zanix wrote:<div>i think an important factor you typically miss is...how much are you really casting? I recollect once all my spells are cast, and I am waiting on refresh, I have a few good seconds for autoatk to kick in.</div><hr></blockquote>im not missing that factor, my AA's are spec'd to control that problem. im always casting. if all my main spells are down, i change out weapons on my hotbar to hit all my AA spells/attacks. by the time they are cast my main spells are back up and i never miss a stride. i may miss a couple auto attacks with Vrak unequiped, but the 4 second delay means i would only miss 2 swings max if it was still equiped.</div>

[Zarovi]

<P>Once again if your talking raids you missing out on the lvl of your weapon (6<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Compared to raid mobs (74+).More likely of your weapon proc being resisted over Gualdrek(70).Your weapon loses more effectivness there. Plus there is a thread going around about the formula for procs might not be valid anymore. I can't believe your whole argument is based on your chance to proc.</P> <P>Sure in the ideal group makeup Stats can be capped but that doesn't happen very often.</P>

[Ultimatum]

<div><blockquote><hr>Zarovich wrote:<div></div>Yes Gualdrek has Higher Stats. 18 more Str, 15 more Stam, 7 more Int, 55 more health and 105 more Power. Ok your weapon has 1 more wisdom. The rating on Gualdrek is a tad better too. And the procs are very close so who knows on the winner there. The sword is higher lvl then the hammer too.So just like Armor, the closer to the mob the weapon is the more effective it is. Also did you notice your Hammer low end is a 1 damage? Gualdrek is 67. Sure your hammer is better delay but that alone does not make up for lower stats, lower rating, and lower lvl. And lets not even get into the coolness factor. Gualdrek could be the best looking weapon in game to boot.<hr></blockquote>AAAAHAHAHAHA thanks for the laugh!  Really though, if you are choosing a weapon based on raw stats before anything else, you have no idea what you are doing.  There are 3 things that matter to SKs on a weapon and for your enlightenment, I will reveal them to you.  They are:  Damage Rating (the higher the better of course), Weapon Delay (2.5 - 5 seconds is the general sweetspot for SKs), and Procs (generally any hostile spell proc on a weapon > melee procs...unless you are comparing some 5% chance on hostile spell to inflict 100 damage to a 10% chance on autoattack to inflict 900 damage of course.)  ANYTHING else (with the exception of Disruption perhaps for pvp) is completely and utterly irrelevant for choosing a weapon.  Raw stats are EASILY capped by other means, especially on raids, so if you are choosing WEAPONS for stats, you are missing the point of a WEAPON...(that point being to inflict damage for those of you too daft to realize)  And even so, if you are comparing proc effects, how can you say with a straight face that a 5% chance to do 258-430 is better than a 5% chance to do 424-518 AND heal for 397-486?  That's just obsurd.  Also, Peekae, while that Axe you showed a pic of is great for a Warrior, at a 1.6 delay it is wasted on an SK unless you plan on just standing behind mobs and autoattacking the whole time.  Pretty much every spell you cast on a mob is going to cancel out 1 swing of that weapon so the effective damage rating is pretty much cut in half in the hands of an SK.  <div><blockquote><hr>Zanix wrote:<div>i think an important factor you typically miss is...how much are you really casting? I recollect once all my spells are cast, and I am waiting on refresh, I have a few good seconds for autoatk to kick in.</div><hr></blockquote>This was also worthy of a hearty laugh.  If you are stringing your spells together you might as well just unequip your weapon alltogether anyway, and even so, You should ALWAYS have SOMETHING to cast, even if its an item with a clicky effect like the Shocker.  SKs have 12 hostile spells to utilize not counting any items you have that count as spells when used...If you are running out of spells and have seconds to wait to autoattack I don't know [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] your hotbars must look like.  Next time you parse a raid check how much of your damage is associated to autoattack and then go aheasd and compare it to the total damage of all your spells and procs, then try to tell me a melee proc is more effective than a hostile spell proc.  Better yet, have an Illusionist cast Synergism on you, and compare Dynamism's damage with your melee proc.  Dynamism used to account for a whopping 15-20% of my total damage, easily topping Tap Veins as my highest damage spell on raids.  By comparison, the highest I've ever seen any melee proc was 5% of my total damage, and those numbers should be +/- 2% amoung SKs across the board.</div><div><blockquote><hr>Zarovich wrote: <p>Once again if your talking raids you missing out on the lvl of your weapon (6<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Compared to raid mobs (74+).More likely of your weapon proc being resisted over Gualdrek(70).Your weapon loses more effectivness there. Plus there is a thread going around about the formula for procs might not be valid anymore. I can't believe your whole argument is based on your chance to proc.</p> <p>Sure in the ideal group makeup Stats can be capped but that doesn't happen very often.</p><hr></blockquote>WHAT!?!  Maybe I missed the memo, but I have NEVER heard anything about your weapon level mattering when your proc goes off, so if you have a direct link to information pertaining to this, I'd love to read it.  The only thing that used to matter was quality...as in Treasured, Legendary, Fabled and some raid named were immune to treasured weapons, but SOE did away with that in like LU16.  Besides, even if what you say is true (which i highly doubt is is), if you do the math, you are still going to have more damage come from Rak'Leko, even if it resists 2% more than Gauldralek which is at most how much more it would resis if your statment were to hold any water. The only stats that matter for DPS reasons are STR and INT and if you arent capping those in a group with a Wizard then you need to invest in some new gear.</div></div>

[Zarovi]

So bascially what your telling me is the best 2 hander in game drops off a named mob in Temple of Scale that can be 2 grouped? AHAHA thanks for the laugh, I needed that. But I won't take your word on it, your guild is barely breaking into T7 content. Therefore your first hand experience is lacking. Not sure why I am replying to a wizard about Sk stuff. Tell you what take a poll, and see what Sk's will choose a 2hand club from Temple of Scale or Gualdrek.

[YummiOger]

<DIV>Required Weapon equipt Lv has no effect on it connecting.. i can hit Lord Vymm with Shiney Brass Halberd .. fact. weapon quality use to matter many LUs ago but it was removed.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Arieneth]

<div><blockquote><hr>Zarovich wrote:<div></div>So bascially what your telling me is the best 2 hander in game drops off a named mob in Temple of Scale that can be 2 grouped? AHAHA thanks for the laugh, I needed that. But I won't take your word on it, your guild is barely breaking into T7 content. Therefore your first hand experience is lacking. Not sure why I am replying to a wizard about Sk stuff. Tell you what take a poll, and see what Sk's will choose a 2hand club from Temple of Scale or Gualdrek.<hr></blockquote>it would be best not to post bs without knowing all the facts. Razer came from a T7 raiding guild. he's seen the zones, he's seen the gear, he knows what's out there. he raided with that guild as a 70 SK. why does he posts here? to educated the uneducated (ie: you) and offer his insight from his experiences with the class (obviously far above yours). please pay attention, read all the posts, and try not to look like a fool.ill now take your silly logic and turn it against you. so "easy" to get loot is lesser in quality to harder to get loot. for most things yes...all things hardly. best bp in the game atm? Cuirass of Protection from Blackscale Sepulcher. easy as [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] to get and is the highest mit bp. saying that a 2h weapon is worse than another because it's easier to get is just plain stupid. i can't even think of anything to say because the shear idiocy of what you just said has blown my mind...simply amazing. how is it possible to play 70(i assume) levels of SK and still have as little of a clue as you do? please...enlighten me.id be very interested in this poll idea of yours. i'd love to find out how many SK's know how combat for their class works and which weapon is better. i think most SK's realize that they are a caster/tank class and would use the best fitting possible (ie: not Gauldralek). </div>

[Arieneth]

<div></div><div><blockquote><hr>YummiOger wrote:<div>Required Weapon equipt Lv has no effect on it connecting.. i can hit Lord Vymm with Shiney Brass Halberd .. fact. weapon quality use to matter many LUs ago but it was removed.</div> <div> </div><hr></blockquote>man...i was perfectly content letting that guy go on thinking he knew what he was talking about. but maybe now that it's out he'll wise up and stop using a subpar weapon.<font size="2"><font size="1">doubt it tho</font></font></div><p>Message Edited by Venymous on <span class=date_text>09-12-2006</span> <span class=time_text>09:33 PM</span>

[gnarkill]

I dunno I have tested every 2h I own over and over (I have pretty much every T7 2h in the game) and these 2 by FAR do the most dmg most consistently...pve and pvp..love them! I have a high melee auto attack hit of 3,422 with that wardens fist....procs are overrated imo..especially 5% ones<img src="http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/8619/untitledcp5.jpg"><div></div>

[Zanix]

I didn't parse too bad tonight, considering some of my equip. is still poop..<BR>Was averaging about 900dps in awake x4<BR><BR><IMG src="http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l185/peekae/DPSPOA2.jpg"><BR> <P>Message Edited by Zanix on <SPAN class=date_text>09-12-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>10:16 PM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by Zanix on <span class=date_text>09-13-2006</span> <span class=time_text>01:42 PM</span>

[Zanix]

<div></div><hr size="2" width="100%">I dunno I have tested every 2h I own over and over (I have pretty much every T7 2h in the game) and these 2 by FAR do the most dmg most consistently...pve and pvp..love them! I have a high melee auto attack hit of 3,422 with that wardens fist....procs are overrated imo..especially 5% ones<hr size="2" width="100%">how can you say procs are overated for a SK? especially one that heals me constantly in PVP?<div></div><p>Message Edited by Zanix on <span class=date_text>09-12-2006</span> <span class=time_text>10:01 PM</span>

[Zanix]

<hr size="2" width="100%">Also, Peekae, while that Axe you showed a pic of is great for a Warrior, at a 1.6 delay it is wasted on an SK unless you plan on just standing behind mobs and autoattacking the whole time.  Pretty much every spell you cast on a mob is going to cancel out 1 swing of that weapon so the effective damage rating is pretty much cut in half in the hands of an SK.  <hr size="2" width="100%"><div></div>while casting may pause melee DMG, it also cues it up, so thatm if any melee were to be swung during spell casting, they are swung IMMEDIATELY after spell cast is complete. so...the faster delay the more potential for swings the second a cast is finished.

[gnarkill]

Most are overrated imo..we have 2 self buffs that are heal procs...I rarely see procs go off in pvp cuz they are not extended fights like pve...and you might wanna check what SK you are talking to about pvp before you reply<div></div>

[Zarovi]

<P>Well the two DoM boys are claiming the proc is the reason their weapon is better. And Gnarkill just stated procs are overrated. I doubt any clear victor will be decided. Bashing me on my knowledge is pretty childish since your guild has never set foot in Deathtoll. On a different note I have a new weapon to play with "Ardevaas, the Render" something you can only dream about owning.</P> <P> </P>

[Zarovi]

My last post is directed at Mr.Wizard and his pocket Sk that share a brain.

[gnarkill]

Heh I have Ardevaas..never used it once but to test it...sure does look pretty tho...Jade Inlaid Axe and Greatspear of the Outer Rim own it...its not a bad weapon at all tho <div></div>

[Nocifer Deathblade]

<P>I always have been a sucker for any lifetapping weapons. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I like that doomflight 2h. SK is already a truly lifetapping machine in EQ1 that you won't even believe how good it turns out with all lifetap-related AAs in effect and even can add 2 lifetap augs to a weapon with 2 augs slots.. Even 3 lifetap augs on 3 augs slot on epic 2.5.</P> <P>I'm glad that SK in EQ2 can get lifetap procing weapon and I'm sure that in the future, SK AA path would further enchances any lifetaps spells, procs and all of the sorts. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </P> <P>One thing I say GRR is that other classes got SK lifetap spell on that 2h. Darn paladins.. They gotta get their hands off on that lifetap heh.  However, we will get better with any lifetap procs than any other classes once we got more AA lifetap enchantments to benefit us more.. </P> <P>Lifetaps RULE in EQ1.. It'll rule in EQ2..  I was extremely disappointed how awful lifetap was for SK upon EQ2's launch. I'm glad that it got revamped... </P>

[Arieneth]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Zanix wrote:<BR> <HR width="100%" SIZE=2> I dunno I have tested every 2h I own over and over (I have pretty much every T7 2h in the game) and these 2 by FAR do the most dmg most consistently...pve and pvp..love them! I have a high melee auto attack hit of 3,422 with that wardens fist....procs are overrated imo..especially 5% ones<BR> <HR width="100%" SIZE=2> <BR>how can you say procs are overated for a SK? especially one that heals me constantly in PVP?<BR> <P>Message Edited by Zanix on <SPAN class=date_text>09-12-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>10:01 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>do you not read your weapon? it has a % chance to proc and it isnt 100%. you don't get healed constantly by that sword.</P> <P> </P> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Zanix wrote:<BR> <HR width="100%" SIZE=2> Also, Peekae, while that Axe you showed a pic of is great for a Warrior, at a 1.6 delay it is wasted on an SK unless you plan on just standing behind mobs and autoattacking the whole time.  Pretty much every spell you cast on a mob is going to cancel out 1 swing of that weapon so the effective damage rating is pretty much cut in half in the hands of an SK.  <BR> <HR width="100%" SIZE=2> <BR>while casting may pause melee DMG, it also cues it up, so thatm if any melee were to be swung during spell casting, they are swung IMMEDIATELY after spell cast is complete. so...the faster delay the more potential for swings the second a cast is finished.<BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>never once seen this happen. auto attack keeps a running timer with your weapon delay. it's not going to run on 4 sec delay, you cast and skip a swing, and it jumps to 2 sec delay to hit the missed swing and then run back on 4 sec delay. i tested this with a hex doll for the long cast and melee swing that followed the casting varied depending on when i started auto attacking and started casting.</P> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Zarovich wrote:<BR> <P>Well the two DoM boys are claiming the proc is the reason their weapon is better. And Gnarkill just stated procs are overrated. I doubt any clear victor will be decided. Bashing me on my knowledge is pretty childish since your guild has never set foot in Deathtoll. On a different note I have a new weapon to play with "Ardevaas, the Render" something you can only dream about owning.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>im not claiming the proc on Vrak makes it better weapon. what i AM stating is that the proc on Vrak fits perfectly in line with the SK class. we cast more than we auto attack so obviously a proc that procs off spells is a more efficient use of a proc. there is no debating that.</P> <P>i fail to see how me not having raided Deathtoll makes you any less clueless than you are. i have no desire to ever use Ardevaas, the Render. it's just another weapon like the rest you keep talking about. except it has a lower damage rating and lower top damage than Vrak, not to mention a proc off melee (you really aren't getting this are you?). im starting to think that you think that anything that drops in DT is automatically the best and that is not the case. get your head out of the clouds, being in raid guild doesn't automatically make you knowledgable. </P> <P>not to knock Gnarkill, but just because he says procs are overrated doesn't mean we all feel that way. form your own thoughts on things. sure, there is a lot more to a weapon that it's proc, but a weapon with a damage proc, especially one on hostile spells, is very usefull for an SK and can rack up a nice chunk of damage on a raid.</P><p>Message Edited by Venymous on <span class=date_text>09-13-2006</span> <span class=time_text>06:35 AM</span>

[Zarovi]

<P>I did some parses last night between Gualdrek and Ardevaas. Even tho the sword has a higher rating, proc and stats, the axe won out. The one extra CA that I can use for axes clearly made a big dfference. Also while using Ardevaas I can sustain 71% haste on my own. Bascially claiming a certain weapon is best overall is invalid. Sure for some people it might be the best choice but for others its not. Alot of variables that change from different players might not bring up the same numbers for the next Sk.</P> <P>If you think I am so clueless Arieneth then duel me sometime. I would gladly run my axe through you and remove any doubts you have.</P>

[Arieneth]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Zarovich wrote:<BR> <P>I did some parses last night between Gualdrek and Ardevaas. Even tho the sword has a higher rating, proc and stats, the axe won out. The one extra CA that I can use for axes clearly made a big dfference. Also while using Ardevaas I can sustain 71% haste on my own. Bascially claiming a certain weapon is best overall is invalid. Sure for some people it might be the best choice but for others its not. Alot of variables that change from different players might not bring up the same numbers for the next Sk.</P> <P>If you think I am so clueless Arieneth then duel me sometime. I would gladly run my axe through you and remove any doubts you have.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>/sigh...you are still missing the point. 71% haste is going to hurt you. you will be attacking too fast and you will miss auto attack swings interrupted by spell casting. i accept this duel, but of course, you will have to reveal your in game name.

[Kryptonix]

I dont seem to understand the AA choices he OP made. Why put one in heal crits? And one in the AGI stat? Does 4 AGI really make that much of a difference? I saw someone post about how heal crits help us... can you please explain how? I thought heal crits tie in directly to our spell crits. I see a lot of people talking about melee procs being better than spell procs. IMO I disagree, but I am not an uber SK who has been playing since launch, so my words or advice might get slashed at. If you guys like melee procs so much... ever think about going the AGI line and getting trample? Should really help if you like meleeing a lot. I played with the AGI line and it is pretty awesome.If you are wondering, my AAs are in INT, STR, and WIS. Not the optimum DPS spec, but I have played around with different lines and to me this one seems to work out fine. Has a nice balance to it that I like. I was on STA instead of WIS, for Hammer Ground, but since they revamped DM, I didnt see the need for the AE stun when I can get 10 secs of peace and quiet, more than enough time to cast Blessing and Tap Veins. So went WIS instead. If I want to put out a lot of DPS I just slap on some DPS gear. As for this arguement about weapons. I still havent really found a 2 hander I can really stick with. Right now I am using the Doomflight Sword with that life tap proc. But I only use it when I really wanna DPS, otherwise I stick with sword and board. I would love to have that hammer though. Its my preference. I cast way more than I melee, so it should help me more than the 2H Im using now. <div></div>

[Zanix]

<DIV><BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kryptonix wrote:<BR>I dont seem to understand the AA choices he OP made. Why put one in heal crits? And one in the AGI stat? Does 4 AGI really make that much of a difference? I saw someone post about how heal crits help us... can you please explain how? I thought heal crits tie in directly to our spell crits. <BR><BR>I see a lot of people talking about melee procs being better than spell procs. IMO I disagree, but I am not an uber SK who has been playing since launch, so my words or advice might get slashed at. If you guys like melee procs so much... ever think about going the AGI line and getting trample? Should really help if you like meleeing a lot. I played with the AGI line and it is pretty awesome.<BR><BR>If you are wondering, my AAs are in INT, STR, and WIS. Not the optimum DPS spec, but I have played around with different lines and to me this one seems to work out fine. Has a nice balance to it that I like. I was on STA instead of WIS, for Hammer Ground, but since they revamped DM, I didnt see the need for the AE stun when I can get 10 secs of peace and quiet, more than enough time to cast Blessing and Tap Veins. So went WIS instead. If I want to put out a lot of DPS I just slap on some DPS gear. <BR><BR>As for this arguement about weapons. I still havent really found a 2 hander I can really stick with. Right now I am using the Doomflight Sword with that life tap proc. But I only use it when I really wanna DPS, otherwise I stick with sword and board. I would love to have that hammer though. Its my preference. I cast way more than I melee, so it should help me more than the 2H Im using now. <BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>Some of my AA choices are just for testing. I can read NOTHING about them anywhere, so I figured give them a try, see how they work. If worse comes to worse I can respec for a few gold. There's bound to be a point to every line, otherwise they wouldn't exist</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <HR> never once seen this happen. auto attack keeps a running timer with your weapon delay. it's not going to run on 4 sec delay, you cast and skip a swing, and it jumps to 2 sec delay to hit the missed swing and then run back on 4 sec delay. i tested this with a hex doll for the long cast and melee swing that followed the casting varied depending on when i started auto attacking and started casting.<BR> <HR> </DIV> <DIV>I think you might be wrong. I've heard from several sources that if a swing is due, It will queue up to launch right after spell cast is complete</DIV><p>Message Edited by Zanix on <span class=date_text>09-13-2006</span> <span class=time_text>08:36 AM</span>

[Arieneth]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Zanix wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>Some of my AA choices are just for testing. I can read NOTHING about them anywhere, so I figured give them a try, see how they work. If worse comes to worse I can respec for a few gold. There's bound to be a point to every line, otherwise they wouldn't exist</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <HR> <BR>remember that AA's are assigned to subclasses. we share with Paladins. so many of the AA's will benefit one more than the other. for instance spell crits for us, heal crits for them.</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>

[Zanix]

<DIV>but I hear reflect is amazing in pvp....so how can that hold true?</DIV>

[Arieneth]

<P> </P> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Zanix wrote:<BR> <DIV>but I hear reflect is amazing in pvp....so how can that hold true?</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>they obviously can't make it so one line is SK and one line is Pally. they have to balance the lines the best they can. if it were a Pally, id guess they would go 4/4/4/8/1 or something and an SK would do 4/4/8/4/1. if you plan on going for Reflect, put the minimum into heal crits. if not, take out the useless point you have in heal crits. it's not to say SK's don't benefit from heal crits, it's just to a much lesser extent.</P>

[YummiOger]

<DIV>Melee Attacks do Not que untill spell completion. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Hex doll = 8 sec casting</DIV> <DIV>Axe of Blyze = 7.0 delay</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Autoattack and cast Hex at same time = Hex eats first Swing, and next swing is clocked at 14 secs.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Haste = Bad for the Heavy magic casting SK. anything under ~2.0sec delay starts loosing potancy due to spells eating melee swings. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>ps .. seems like its getting to be my place to troll this thread and correct misinformation.</DIV><p>Message Edited by YummiOger on <span class=date_text>09-13-2006</span> <span class=time_text>10:37 AM</span>

[Nocifer Deathblade]

<P><SPAN class=time_text>Yeah, I read mixed comments from various threads claiming that melee will be swung immediately after casting a spell if spell timer is longer than melee. Some reports said that it "skips" swings and wait for next swing instead of immediately after. I dunno which one is right cuz I never tested it myself before to verify.  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I guess I need to test it tonight or whatever so I can believe whatever some people can say. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Unless someone got solid data to back up their claim or got dev link comment to verify then post so can clear up some on confusion. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN class=time_text>All I know is that EQ1 follows the swing immediately after spell casted concept. It was fixed  to solve SK's problem during old times.  SK spells were based on Necro spells that always had lonnngg cast times and it started to hurt Sk more and more as they leveled up to 50 where cast time on higher level spells got longer and longer.  It started to destroy SK's melee dps badly at higher level making them less and less desired to cast anything and they dememorized all long casting necro spells which were just a waste of space on their gem slots. </SPAN></P> <P><SPAN class=time_text>Melee swung immediately after cast time done and the introduction of SK-only spells that all had MUCH faster cast times and nice hybrid-only cast time innate reduction (3% per level reduction) solved SK's dilemma.  I would assume that EQ2 learned from EQ1's mistakes and would not repeat to here.. I assumed that melee would be swung immediately after CA or spell casted if its longer than melee swing time.. If it is not then SOE needs to fix that to follow EQ1's example.</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P><p>Message Edited by Nocifer Deathblade on <span class=date_text>09-13-2006</span> <span class=time_text>11:26 AM</span>

[Ultimatum]

<div></div><div><blockquote><hr>Zarovich wrote:<div></div>So bascially what your telling me is the best 2 hander in game drops off a named mob in Temple of Scale that can be 2 grouped? AHAHA thanks for the laugh, I needed that. But I won't take your word on it, your guild is barely breaking into T7 content. Therefore your first hand experience is lacking. Not sure why I am replying to a wizard about Sk stuff. Tell you what take a poll, and see what Sk's will choose a 2hand club from Temple of Scale or Gualdrek.<hr></blockquote>As Arieneth already said, it doesn't matter where an item comes from...Just because something drops in a harder zone like Deathtoll doesnt make it the best ever.  Black Lotus drops in DT but 99% of tanks will still use the Cuirass of Protection (A drop from a mob that a Warden and Bruiser can duo), ESPECIALLY on a pvp server where resists and mitigation > stats.  My guild is barely breaking into T7 content?  You ARE aware that other servers do, in fact, exist, correct?  I have raided plenty of T7 before pvp came out, but thanks for making an asinine comment.  There is also more than 1 character slot so stating that I play a Wizard on pvp means nothing since I have repeatedly stated that I played an SK in pve.  How about instead of trying to bash me for posting on the SK boards, you go ahead and look up every post I've ever made on the SK boards and point out all the times...no...ANY time I have ever posted something that appears I have no idea what I'm talking about when it pertains to the class.  I can assure you such a post does not exist.  The fact is, I used to spend time after raids pouring over the parses with a fellow math enthusiast crazy Bruiser crunching numbers and learning exactly what weapons were better to use, how I could better time my spells to make the most of auto attack, and what spells should get priority in whatever situation to make them the most efficient.  Unless you sit down after a raid with a calculater figuring out how to make the best out of your class, [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] about the fact that I now play a Wizard because I don't want to hear it.Gnarkill, kudos to you for knowing what you are talking about, and not tring to create some vendetta against me.  I just think it's funny that I try to help people understand more about the SK class and get reamed by people on my server just because they don't want to hear tips from a rival guild, but when an SK from another server comments and furthers some of my points, they listen to you <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  How about saving your comments for the Venekor boards and accept neutrality when it comes to the SK boards...Ok, back to Gnarkill...The weapons you linked are indeed excellent for an SK, mainly because of the delay and damage rating.  I don't understand, however, why you say procs are overrated?  If I remember correctly, You were one of the few truely intelligent SKs that took the Staff of Second Life over the crappy Halberd because (I'm assuming) of how awesome the proc was for an SK.  I would compare my procs with other tanks that took the sword, and I was proccing the Wand for at least 2x the damage that everyone else got from the  sword.  You would have been the first person I would have though would appreciate the proc on the Vraksakin Claw Club.  Also, for reference in case any of the other SKs don't know what the weapon is: <img src="http://img116.imageshack.us/img116/1313/vraksakinfj2.jpg">Yes, the low end is LOOOOW, but if you are trying derive the most DPS out of your SK, you should be in a group with a class that can provide a better chance to crit melee, at least +60% passive DPS, and about 50-75% haste to make the most use out of the weapon...While I am generally opposed to haste for the SK class since most weapons are in the 2-3 second delay, and the haste usually makes you miss more swings, hasting the Claw Club down to a 2.5 delay leads to obsurd dps, especially with a DPS modifier.  I have seen people crit for 4-5k a shot, and when coupled with the Trample AA line it rocks house in pvp.  Also of note, Crits are (max damage +1) - (max damage x 1.3) so having a high melee crit chance is essential especially with this weapon so you minimize the chance to autoattack for 3 damage with it.<div><blockquote><hr>Zanix wrote:while casting may pause melee DMG, it also cues it up, so thatm if any melee were to be swung during spell casting, they are swung IMMEDIATELY after spell cast is complete. so...the faster delay the more potential for swings the second a cast is finished.<hr></blockquote>You are correct in that if you miss a swing due to spell casting, it will swing once the spell is finished, and the delay resets, but ONLY if you don't have another spell cued already.  It is bad practice, especially for Crusaders and Bards, to string your spells together because you will miss a vast majority of swings.  Also, you are overlooking the fact that if you are using a 1.5 delay weapon, and cast a spell that takes 3 seconds to cast, you are completely missing 1 autoattack during that time since you would have normally swung twice in 3 seconds, but due to spellcasting, you will only swing once, after the spell is finished.  This is the sole reason that I do not like haste unless I am using a weapon with a delay over 3.0.  This is also why SKs should get into the practice of timing their spells with their autoattacks, knowing how long to pause after certain spells, and which spells you can string together without missing an autoattack...It takes some micromanegement at first, but after a week or 2 of practice on raids it becomes second nature, and will increase your dps by a fair margin.<div><blockquote><hr>Zarovich wrote: <p>Well the two DoM boys are claiming the proc is the reason their weapon is better. And Gnarkill just stated procs are overrated. I doubt any clear victor will be decided. Bashing me on my knowledge is pretty childish since your guild has never set foot in Deathtoll. On a different note I have a new weapon to play with "Ardevaas, the Render" something you can only dream about owning.</p> <p> My last post is directed at Mr.Wizard and his pocket Sk that share a brain.</p><hr></blockquote>I never claimed the proc was the sole reason that the Claw Club is the best SK weapon in my opinion.  In fact, the reason I favor it so much is because of its perfect delay when some haste is applied, and its ability to regularly hit for 2k+ in the right group setup.  The proc is just the icing on the cake since the 5% chance to proc off spells is vastly superior to a 5% chance to proc off melee in the hands of an SK.  As for bashing you, you bashed yourself with your constant inane comments...I merely pointed things out.  Just because my guild on Ven never set foot in Deathtoll doesn't mean I have never had a toon in Deathtoll...quit assuming that this is my first character in the EQ2 universe.  Also, I would never use Ardevaas at all over Rak'Leko and especially not over Vraksakin.  Did you notice that the proc is SLASHING damage?  As far as I know, slashing procs won't crit off our 68% chance, and they have a far higher chance of being blocked, parried, or reposted than a magic proc, not to mention it is just another 2h weapon with a 5% melee proc.  If you are going to talk about straight procs making a weapon more usable, then why not use the Awakened Skycrest Doomblade?  I have yet to see a better 5% melee proc on a weapon, let alone the fact that it has a 7% chance to proc.  Yeah it has a lower DR, but you probably wouldn't use it for the sole reason that it doesnt drop in Deathtoll.  As for the "Mr. Wizard" comment...keep furthering your ploy to look bad.  So by your "logic" I guess you made yourself look even worse by having a Wizard teach you numerous lessons about how to play your class.  Good job!As for the other comments on AAs, yes, there is usually a point to them all, but that doesn't deter the fact there there are only a few clear cut choices if you want to max your DPS.  Heal crits DO in fact benefit SKs in the vein of if your Absorb Vitae doesn't crit, you still have a chance for the heal portion to crit, but it is just not worth the AA points.  That portion of the line serves Paladins to make their heals more potent.  Conversely, Paladins only have 3 or 4 hostile spells so the Spell Crit line is basically useless to them and only serves as a bridge to acquire the heal crits.<div><blockquote><hr>Zanix wrote: <div>but I hear reflect is amazing in pvp....so how can that hold true?</div><hr></blockquote>The Reflect line is only really great for pve but I don't think it reflects indirect AEs so its use is still limited.  That said, I'd love for people to test out the reflect line on me in pvp.  Seeing as how I've played an SK and know exactly what every buff icon looks like, if I see the reflect icon go up, I'm not going to sit there and try to Ice Comet someone to have it get reflected back...instead I'll root them, have it reflect to me, cancel the root off me and then proceed to cast on said Crusader.  What you have to realize is that SOE has to balance the AAs between PVP and PVE servers.  Some things are far better in PVE, and some things are utterly useless in PVE but can be pivital for survival in PVP...take the Wizard's Manashield for example, which for a short time has damage eat away at their Power instead of their Health...in PVE I can take 1 hit from a ^^^ mob and it will drain all of my power and then I die from the next hit...in PVP, especially in 1v1 fights it can be the turning point in a fight since I generally don't need more than 25% of my power to kill someone, and against scouts, it can take much longer for them to kill my power than my HP.</div>Edit: Autoattack WILL in fact que up until your spell finishes casting, at which time it will swing and start the delay over.  I used to string spells together and not pay attention to autoattack swings back in the day, and with a 2.5 delay weapon I was averaging a 4.5-6 second delay.  It took much practice, but eventually I had my timings to where with the same 2.5 delay, I could output more DPS and maintain a steady 2.6-2.8 delay.  Timing is everything <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div></div></div><p>Message Edited by Razerblaze on <span class=date_text>09-13-2006</span> <span class=time_text>02:33 PM</span>

[Zanix]

<P>I'm glad to see some very opinionated ideas on this thread. SKs... It seems to go hand in hand with our class, since even before the release of eq1 beta.</P> <P>However, I am one to  never go with text book definitions and calculated solutions and reasons about EQ. Wny? because there are always too many loose ends, too many 'maybes' and too many guesses. Many studies, hypothesis, tests...all proven to have some sort of loop hole.  No one is 100% right, probobly not even the developers know for certain the EXACT impact a stat or proc has on X fight +  X player + X factor.</P> <P>I've been level 70 for a little over a month, I have 45 AAs, and being put in group 4 usually on raids....My parsing is averaging 900. of which 30-40% seems to be melee dmg. From what I've read, 900dps is above average. And, to top it off, I am using AA line up that a lot are saying is "wrong" Well, It's got fine tuning to do, but, I experimented for myself, and will have it the <STRONG>best possible way</STRONG> for ME very soon. </P> <P> </P>

[gnarkill]

<div></div><div><blockquote><hr>Zanix wrote:<div></div> <div>but I hear reflect is amazing in pvp....so how can that hold true?</div><hr></blockquote>I had reflect for along time..it was pretty good..it only reflects once and then it has a 1 min recast..you have to have a symbol in shield hand for it to go off...I pretty much [Removed for Content] everyone off with it in pvp, so they got wise and started using crappy spells they didnt care about getting reflected on them to make it fire...so i ditched it and maxed battle leadership for more probability in landing spells in pvp (disruption) not to mention it almost cancels out or defensive stance penalties..</div><p>Message Edited by ta2demon on <span class=date_text>09-13-2006</span> <span class=time_text>02:40 PM</span>

[Zarovi]

Oh Arieneth my character name is Sarigon. Look me up if you want to find out who's the better Sk.

[Arieneth]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Zarovich wrote:<BR> Oh Arieneth my character name is Sarigon. Look me up if you want to find out who's the better Sk.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>you know where to be and when to be there. see you there...

[Zanix]

hell, If i don't have to work, I think I might show up too, just for fun.

[DUNN]

Someone witha parse should go out and kill an even con mob just auto auto attacking with  a 2 sec delay  weapon and a 4 sec delay one.  Then kill the same mob while only casting a spell after each specefied delay. So try to cast every 2 sec with a 2 sec delay wepon and 4 sec with the 4 sec delay wepon.  Then compare the dps values. I always say faster is better because it's swinging as long as I am not just mashing buttons.

[Ultimatum]

<div></div><div><blockquote><hr>DUNN wrote:<div></div>Someone witha parse should go out and kill an even con mob just auto auto attacking with  a 2 sec delay  weapon and a 4 sec delay one.  Then kill the same mob while only casting a spell after each specefied delay. So try to cast every 2 sec with a 2 sec delay wepon and 4 sec with the 4 sec delay wepon.  Then compare the dps values. I always say faster is better because it's swinging as long as I am not just mashing buttons.<hr></blockquote>I'd be interested to see this posted here as well.  Bottom line, however, is with a 2 second delay weapon, you get absolutely zero benefit from haste, whereas with a 4 second delay weapon, not only do you hit harder each swing, but with haste, you can effectively more than double the dps from your weapon over a 2 second delay.  In last night's raid, our SK averaged 1200 per swing with the Claw Club...While I'm not saying there aren't other weapons that might equal this average damage, I won't believe it until I see it <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div><p>Message Edited by Razerblaze on <span class=date_text>09-15-2006</span> <span class=time_text>09:47 AM</span>

[Dejah]

<P>This thread is amazing.  Very entertaining.  This thread gets my triple-D stamp of approval.</P> <P>At least the one thing everyone can agree on is INT-4,4,8.  68% spell crits is just too awesome, it's too bad we didn't have more spells that have damage ranges or we'd benefit a lot more from this.</P> <P>Now what to do with the other 33 points?</P>

[YummiOger]

<DIV>Well ..............  Who Spanked Who?..</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>i love drama</DIV>

[Kryptonix]

Yeh so who won in that SK duel?? Been checking this post to see if thye posted the winner. THE SK COMMUNITY MUST KNOW!!!!<div></div>

[Arieneth]

the SK, Sarigon, whom i was supposed to fight, quit the game 2 days after he challenged me. sadly this duel will no longer take place.<div></div>

[Nicholai24]

<div><blockquote><hr>Venymous wrote:the SK, Sarigon, whom i was supposed to fight, quit the game 2 days after he challenged me. sadly this duel will no longer take place.<div></div><hr></blockquote>This made me Lol.</div>

[Hamervelder]

I'm sitting at 8/8/8 on Int and working on opening up the sta line.  It's sort of counter-intuitive to think of using a symbol in your off-hand, but it works, and it works well.  Legionnaire's Smite at rank 8 hits for over 1k w/ 475 int, and a 68% chance to crit spells is very nice as well.  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div>

[Zanix]

<P>since I've been called such a newb by you, I still offer my challenge. Not saying I'll win... but I may change your opinion. </P> <P>(and I don't intend to quit ANY time soon) </P> <P> </P> <P>PK</P>

[Arieneth]

time and place?

[Zanix]

<DIV>most likely tonight, only night not raiding.... but too early to tell. probobly somewhere easy to meet up.</DIV>

[Arieneth]

my raid starts at 8:30 tonight. i probably won't be home from work til 7:30ish EST. kinda limited time slot, but best i can do today.

[Kryptonix]

<blockquote><hr>Venymous wrote:the SK, Sarigon, whom i was supposed to fight, quit the game 2 days after he challenged me. sadly this duel will no longer take place.<div></div><hr></blockquote>Mmmmm must have the scourge knight helm. the one with the fear proc. way to go dude. <div></div>

[Nocifer Deathblade]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Nocifer Deathblade wrote:<BR> <P><SPAN class=time_text>Yeah, I read mixed comments from various threads claiming that melee will be swung immediately after casting a spell if spell timer is longer than melee. Some reports said that it "skips" swings and wait for next swing instead of immediately after. I dunno which one is right cuz I never tested it myself before to verify.  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I guess I need to test it tonight or whatever so I can believe whatever some people can say. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Unless someone got solid data to back up their claim or got dev link comment to verify then post so can clear up some on confusion. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN class=time_text>All I know is that EQ1 follows the swing immediately after spell casted concept. It was fixed  to solve SK's problem during old times.  SK spells were based on Necro spells that always had lonnngg cast times and it started to hurt Sk more and more as they leveled up to 50 where cast time on higher level spells got longer and longer.  It started to destroy SK's melee dps badly at higher level making them less and less desired to cast anything and they dememorized all long casting necro spells which were just a waste of space on their gem slots. </SPAN></P> <P><SPAN class=time_text>Melee swung immediately after cast time done and the introduction of SK-only spells that all had MUCH faster cast times and nice hybrid-only cast time innate reduction (3% per level reduction) solved SK's dilemma.  I would assume that EQ2 learned from EQ1's mistakes and would not repeat to here.. I assumed that melee would be swung immediately after CA or spell casted if its longer than melee swing time.. If it is not then SOE needs to fix that to follow EQ1's example.</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P> <P>Message Edited by Nocifer Deathblade on <SPAN class=date_text>09-13-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>11:26 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Sorry for replying my own post.  I saw YummiOger posted a thread about the combat mechanic found here at <A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=combat&message.id=114995" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=combat&message.id=114995</A></P> <P>He got dev to confirm the right information. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  Basically, both camps of posters were right that it didn't queue or did queue.  It didn't queue before when it was a bug then it got fixed then it now can queue.</P> <P>Real information in this CURRENT time..  Autoattack melee will swing immediately AFTER any spell or CA completed its process. No more "skipping".. Very good. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Now EQ2 is same as EQ1 for combat mechanics..</P> <P>Thanks YummiOger for getting the solid information from Dev. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P><p>Message Edited by Nocifer Deathblade on <span class=date_text>09-27-2006</span> <span class=time_text>06:35 AM</span>

[Zanix]

<P>well, then that changes EVERYTHING....</P> <P>So, STR AA is a lot more beneficial than people are saying. And faster weapon delay = better. </P> <P> </P>

[Arieneth]

<DIV>no, cuz with faster delay weapons you can entirely miss swings during casting. take the hex doll example as an extreme. 8 second casting time. if you use a 2 second delay weapon you miss 3 swings and the 4th swings after casting the doll. with a longer delay weapon you miss less swings.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>you are more than welcome to test your faster delay weapons when we duel :smileywink:</DIV>

[Zanix]

<P>what are you saying?</P> <P>If hypethetically, a weapon delay was 0.0 - it would be constant....So small interuptions (spells) would only be minimal in effect.</P> <P>imagine a bass drum that is a slow tempo...if once in a whileyou uncovered your ears QUICKLY then recovered them, you  <U>might</U> get to catch the drum's noise. </P> <P>Now imagine another noise...one that is almost a constant..if your uncovered your ears like above, there's a MUCH better chance of hearing the noise.</P> <P>My point is you are trying to explain how our long cast spells effect our melee... when in reality SKs spells casting times are <STRONG>VERY</STRONG> fast</P> <P>Message Edited by Zanix on <SPAN class=date_text>09-27-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>10:01 AM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by Zanix on <span class=date_text>09-27-2006</span> <span class=time_text>10:03 AM</span>

[YummiOger]

<DIV>Venymous is Correct. Auto-Atack ques untill instantly after the Ability timer. However, Auto-Attack will Skip if the Ability casting is long enough. The Example with the Hex doll is correct.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>IMO given this Information, I now want a High Damage (Wide Damage Range, ex 50-600) weapon with Long Delay with Max Crit chances. Such as V. Club :smileyvery-happy:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This Info should Really be on the Optimizing DPS Thread on this forum as well.</DIV><p>Message Edited by YummiOger on <span class=date_text>09-28-2006</span> <span class=time_text>06:38 AM</span>

[Nocifer Deathblade]

<P>Well, wouldn't you think that delay of a weapon on the same cast time of most spells/CAs would be most optimal? </P> <P>For example, most CAs are at .5 sec cast time. Having weapon delay at .5 sec would be most optimal so won't lose any delayed swing time? </P> <P>If spells are at 2 sec cast time and weapon has 3.0 delay.   Weapon swing might be wasted by 1.0 seconds.</P> <P>Because.. When first spell was casted for 2.0 sec.. When it was completed but weapon swing still counting its timer toward 3.0 seconds so 2nd spell go into queue right away for another 2.0 seconds.. When 2nd spell got completed then finally swings the melee.  Total time is 4.0 sec instead of 3.0 seconds..  1.0 sec is being wasted..</P> <P>It would be more ideal if weapon delay is at 2.0 then it can swing in between of 2 spells and again will swing for 2nd time at end of 2nd spell. Total 2 swings instead of 1 swings in total of 4.0 seconds..</P> <P>Basically, longest delay is not always the best solution for any class.  Almost all of bruiser CAs are at .5 seconds so basically need to get weapon delay at most optimal is at increment of .5 means get delay (hasted included) at .5, 1.0, 1.5, 2.0 for best result instead of .6, 1.2,1.8 etc that will lose out some melee dps over the time. </P> <P>Nice thing about SKs.. CAs/spells usually are at .5, 1.0 or 2.0..  That means  get weapons best at delay of 0.5, 1.0, 2.0 or 4.0..   3.0 is kinda wasted unless you haste it to 2.0 then it's good. Delay of hasted 2.5 for Sk is not that great cuz doesn't fit the pattern nicely unless you casted a spell of 2.0 then casted CA  of .5 immediately after to get most of hasted 2.5 delay weapon. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> If you see weapon of 3.0 delay but hasted got it to 2.0 then it becomes good to fit .5 sec CAs and 2.0 sec spells. Haste can be good way to control to optimize.. Heck, if you "overhasted" 3.0 to 1.9 then it will only be as good as haste that brings it to 2.0 because both 1.9 and 2.0 hasted delay weapon will end up at 2.0 sec after spell completed means no difference in dps.. </P> <P>Slowest weapon is not always the answer. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Get perfect delay of certain numbers could be more perfect heh. You must factor in haste..</P><p>Message Edited by Nocifer Deathblade on <span class=date_text>09-28-2006</span> <span class=time_text>07:18 AM</span>

[Arieneth]

<DIV>seeing as we are not melee classes, in the long run a faster delay weapon will hurt you. after casting you should always give a short pause to allow for the auto attack swing. if you are pausing after almost every spell you are racking up a lot of wasted time. with a longer delay, higher damage weapon you can chain together spells, pause, chain more spells. you have to do what is most benefitial for the class. optimal dps will come from long delay, high damage weapon that give you time to maximize spell casting and minimize auto attack swings/pauses. 3-4 sec delay is best with a little haste applied to the closer to 4 secs you get.</DIV>

[Nocifer Deathblade]

<P>Longest cast time we get is 2.0 sec at most from our spells right? That means best delay we can get is 2.0 (hasted) or 4.0 (hasted as well) instead of broken delays in between (You can see real modified delay via typing /weapon)...    Faster delay weapons still great for pure melees like bruisers, etc if all of their CA's are .5 except a few like AE CA's that casted little longer..</P> <P>I only gave example above of best optimal delay like .5 or 1.0 sec for those classes with fast cast times etc but, of course, .5 or 1.0 sec delay weapon surely isn't good idea for us, SKs,  considering the fact that majority of our powered attacks are from spells not from CA's..  I know it contridict with my previous post saying that fast delay weapon of .5 and 1.0 is optimal for SK. I wasn't thinking much about spell itself asI play Bruiser as well. I forget heh.. I joust alot and used lance attack that both uses .5 sec so fast delay weapon is basically "ok" for me but I still prefer longer delay over fast delay for most result. I love pike of pain but it has hasted delay of 2.5 heh. It would be nice to bring it down to 2.0..  but It would SEEM that 2.5 is ok when I casted 2.0 sec spell THEN joust immediately after for .5 totalling 2.5 then my pike thrusted immediately after.. But recovery spell/CA times just complicates things further more making 2.5 sec turned into 3.0 sec. Just need to string combinations of spell/CAs properly to get most of pike's attack. </P> <P>Also, having bad [Removed for Content] weapon with high damage and long delay is nice with trample and riposting result. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I love seeing lot of over 1k damage against 4 mobs  every 1/3 of my swing. It is pretty SICK!!</P> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P><p>Message Edited by Nocifer Deathblade on <span class=date_text>09-28-2006</span> <span class=time_text>08:20 AM</span>

[Nocifer Deathblade]

<P>Lol. Made me realize something..  Look at that thread.. <A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=10&message.id=29058" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=10&message.id=29058</A></P> <P>Crusaders had been screaming hard to get DWing for long time.. But I realize something.  Because of the nature of dual wield, most weapons have very fast cast time plus can be mismatched delays on both hands. It'll complicate Sk's nature of mage/melee for spell/ca.  SOE designed DW to be equivalient to 2h sure for those melees with fast CA's but  I realize that DW is not same as 2h for SKS.  DW will [Removed for Content] SK more than 2h would..   SKs who DW'ing over 2h would be foolish unless they found 2 DWs with LONG cast time such as DWing wurmslayer and other long delays of same delays then that would be ok. It's so much easier just to get 2h or long delay 1h to get most out of it for SKs..  </P>

[Zanix]

So, in the end... A faster delay weapon (meaning in the range of 1.5-2.5) with the same DMG ranges is BETTER than one with a longer delay

[YummiOger]

<DIV>Ahh im sorry for mis-clearification. During Raids im often 50-80% Hasted. </DIV> <DIV>So Actually it would be more apropriate to say i would like a High Damage weapon that gets commonly Raid Hasted to a 2.0-2.5s delay. And Due to how Critical hits work a Wide Damage range is preferable.  Fast CA, Fast CA, Swing, 2s Spell, swing, Spell, Swing, Repeat...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Under 2.0s Delay seems to be the piont of demeinishing returns for our DPS.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Arieneth]

free to have our duel Friday, Peekae?

[Zanix]

<P>Yah, whenever works out best for both of us. I'm on PST and typically work until 5pst. I'm usually on Vent also.</P> <P>Tomorrow night I think we be raiding...usually, be the time i get home, I go mobile and meet my crew. Not sure what I'm up to this weekend, but If I see free times, I will post them to you in PMs on here. I'd like to duel non- arena also, if that's cool....I've only hit them up 1 time, and didn't care much for the dynamics involved.</P><p>Message Edited by Zanix on <span class=date_text>09-28-2006</span> <span class=time_text>11:07 AM</span>

[Arieneth]

<P><BR></P> <HR> Zanix wrote:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Yah, whenever works out best for both of us. I'm on PST and typically work until 5pst. I'm usually on Vent also.</P> <P>Tomorrow night I think we be raiding...usually, be the time i get home, I go mobile and meet my crew. Not sure what I'm up to this weekend, but If I see free times, I will post them to you in PMs on here. I'd like to duel non- arena also, if that's cool....I've only hit them up 1 time, and didn't care much for the dynamics involved.</P> <P>Message Edited by Zanix on <SPAN class=date_text>09-28-2006</SPAN><SPAN class=time_text>11:07 AM</SPAN><BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>right...no arenas.</P>