does death march now make sk's raid tanks? and deathmarch discussion.

[Rylight]

well somebody had to post it so I thought I would go ahead and do it. Is this the spell sk's (well sk's lvl 58+) have been waiting for? Is this the solution to our aggro and raid problems? YOU TELL ME, I'm lvl 57(pvp). however I will be lvl 58 soon, and well then be able to test this spells new form, but in the meantime. what have you other sk's found out about the new and improved deathmarch? I hear it not only does it's original job well, but also creates a tremendous amount of aggro, which is exactly what we need for keeping raid aggro. so If anybody has any raid stories I would love to hear them. also I'm on pvp and I can see this spell doing wonders for me, no more swashbucklers making me lose targets. heck with despoiling mist up followed by deathmarch, we should (in theory) be able to take out any non-healer class pretty quickly (except for furies, they can be taken out quickly if approached correctly). so if anybody has any pvp stories I would love to hear them as well. all in all I must say <u>CONGRATULATIONS DEVS ON MAKING THE SK A WONDERFUL CLASS</u>. for those of us who have played since day 1, we all know how broken sk's where when EQ2 first came out. heck our lifetaps were a joke, and though I still dont feel totally evil as an sk, I'm having alot of fun (then agian maybe I well feel more evil once I get outta this blue cobalt armor and my red pvp agro pants, I look like a police siren). <div></div>

[JoarAddam]

<DIV>it's not a class defining ability, but there are ways to interface with other classes that greatly improve it's performance.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Yes, you can steal aggro with it, or hold aggro with it if you use it right.  It's still on a 3 minute timer, and you only get 10 guaranteed seconds out of it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But DM alone doesn't make an MT.  SK's have always been able to MT, it just takes planning.  Raid leaders who throw groups together willy-nilly suffer.   You have to PLAN for the abilities and how they interface with other class abilities.  You can improve death march procs by adding an inq that uses Verdict...  That's one just for starters, but it would take forever to explan how each class benefits the others in different ways.   it's a lot of work.  My Raid leader is always tweaking groups based on the mobs, and sometimes I make suggestions to improve my raid placement.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>DM is nice, it helps alot and I like it now that I don't have to wait for something to die, but I liked my class before the DM change just fine.</DIV>

[Nicholai24]

As Joar said, we've always been able to raid tank. What Death March is, however, is a massive burst of initial aggro., which seems capable of even out-taunting something like a wizard who Fusions early. It's the answer to a Berserker's insolent gibe, and the DPS spike it gives us is incredible.<div></div>

[CHIMPNOODLE.]

<P>I did not notice any significant difference using it while MTing during raids yet.  First I heard about this supposed big aggro burst is here on the boards. If it's true, then good. We are raiding again Sunday, Monday, Tuesday so I'll judge it again after those. Group make-up seems much more important in determining whether aggro will be kept or lost really, regardless of the MT class.</P><p>Message Edited by CHIMPNOODLE. on <span class=date_text>09-08-2006</span> <span class=time_text>12:48 PM</span>

[Rylight]

oh dont get me wrong, I loved my sk way before DM, and know it is not a class defining spell, but admittingly I am somewhat of a lone wolf or grouper, so I dont have alot of experience raiding as the MT (though I have some). anyways im 58 now, so I guess I will get to find out first hand. thanks for the responses, and any new information is always welcomed (btw used it in pvp against some ppl and its freaking awesome, I literally plow through them.) <div></div>

[Ookie]

The spell alone doesn't make SK class able to MT in raids...we can do well as a MT but it's true our agro control abilities are lacking, which is why in a raid we need to rely on group makeup to hold agro...now even with an assassin's hate transfer, coercer hate amp etc. it's possible still to lose agro...which is where this spell does come in handy as it does generate a huge amount of agro...however, Sk is still a less desireable MT class due to having the least amount of mitigation and having a lower hp pool than guardians/zerkers...but if that guardian/zerker goes down this spell would help in gaining agro and being able to help keep the raid from wiping =p

[Zehl_Ice-Fire]

<DIV>/agree that SKs could MT before even if my guild doesn't dooo eeeet.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I am looking forward to this week to experiment with death march in raids as a DPSing SK now that i have adjusted to its crazy snap agro.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The day of the LU it was not going off when I cast it half the time but it seems to always go off now (maybe ninja hotfix, whatev... working now)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The first day I had it my guild did Chel'Drak (which we haven't beaten yet), Death March kept pulling all the ads to me from the off tanks who should hvae had them.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Over the weekend I used it as often as I could in grouping (we dont raid fri or sat) and it worked great many times. Was in the bottom of SoS with my 2box dirge and a mystic. Mystic went afk for 10 mins, of course see invis things pop with the named we were camping, all easy alone but.. with named + a pair or 2 + single 68^^^ gets tricky, and DM, tap viens, reactive, lifetaps and dirge heel totally saved my butt. I was *really* close to dead a few times when I lifetapped.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I played with it in Deathtoll last night carefully, we pretty much have DT down to cake, I did not cast it at all during the split drake fight or Tarinax, but I did cast it on the pull of trash and the easier nameds to test it out (with the raid aware I was doing this experimentation). Our other SK tanked most the mobs till Tarinax and we went back to guardian. I did pull agro sometimes but he then hit his DM and pulled it back nicely. Longer fights with much more agro built up I did not pull agro when I hit it. If I got agro, I ran to tank and he got it off without problem. Last night was our first Tarinax kill and it went smooth and flawless, I wasn't about to use anything experimental in that one <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I will put on my best tanking gear and test the limits of agro pulling this week off our guardians in easy zones like Lyceum and HoS.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Someone mentioned a DM then FD macro, I'm not sure this is a great idea.. I know the agro is probably due to the group buff, but don't forget we are also mega pumping the groups stats, IMHO it's better for me to know its coming, get agro, run to tank, than a wizard getting agro from a crit during beefed stats and poof squished.</DIV><p>Message Edited by discord37 on <span class=date_text>09-11-2006</span> <span class=time_text>11:37 AM</span>

[CHIMPNOODLE.]

<DIV>I used it well into some fights last night and it did not pull aggro when backup tanking. I used it against the Named Trio in labs when the Ravager held back when MTing too. It also gave the fear immunity in the hallway until I got back to the raid on the initial proc. Was effective. I also used it when tanking Vyerm, after an aerial throw I used it to keep aggro locked on me. Very happy with it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Filmore Graves</DIV> <DIV>The Shard Collectors</DIV><p>Message Edited by CHIMPNOODLE. on <span class=date_text>09-11-2006</span> <span class=time_text>11:17 AM</span>

[mikeyswizz]

Just as an FYI.. I did my first raid since the change this past weekend on Lyceum..same setup as usual. I tried experimenting with death march on the pulls. (im in the MT group as the MA) I wanted to see if tossing it up would help the MT get initial aggro better since he wont be stunned and can cast mroe...not a good idea. DM is now like aggro glue.. i started waiting longer and longer before tossing it up. I would wait till the mob got down to 80% then toss DM up, the other 2 mobs in the encounter instantly aggro me...

[Kunathar]

I'm having a problem finding an opprotune time to actually fire this buff off during a Raid.  I've fired her off at various times during encounters.  Early on (to provide the MT an immunity to stuns, mezs, etc...)  it will most certainly steal aggro from the MT so I held up to give one of the MOBs a chance to get under 30% health, still get aggro.  I've even received aggro under 15% health.  (Guild uses the Guardian MT w/ myself as the MA) I'm still experimenting off the back of my Guild's patience  (heh) but so far I simply cannot see a safe time to use this spell in a Raid.  I'm playing with macros now to  cast this buff and instantly FD to shirk aggro.  If I can get this to work I will probably have the spell going off effectively.  But this is about the only thing I can come up with to actually use this spell in a raid situation. <div></div>

[CHIMPNOODLE.]

<DIV>I used it pretty often in last night's raid. If I was tanking or offtanking, I used it to solidify aggro immediately, and for the immunity. If I was back up tank I used it to nab aggro a couple times when there were a few problems. I did use it a couple times far into a couple fights for the DPS boost too, but it was well into the fight (it did not steal aggro those times...mob was at 20% -30% health left around).</DIV>

[Phelon_Skellhound]

I was very shocked the first time I  used DM after the update in Labs.... I was like "[expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]" when mobs suddenly turned on me in the biggining of the fight...  Our pally MT was taken aback as well and was confused and so was I since he had amends on me... I too held back til the mob was lower than 50% before i used it... I am glad I saw this thread cuz I wasn't 100% sure, but suspected it was.... My theory is because it treated our DM as a ward, and just like the templar wards and such the mobs would turn on the caster of the ward (in this case us)

[Kelkirra]

<DIV>DM is an agro magnet. I was tanking lyceum and we got to the last guy and our raid leader allowed me to go DPS on him. I stayed in the MT group for armorments, amends and harmonious link. I would wait for the calls like everyone else and as soon as the mob was debuffed BAM, DM up for the DPS mod and immunities for the tank. What happened? Me in offensive with offensive gear, a 2H and over 500 MIT missing for armorments+DM=me one shotted. -_- I have used it while tanking and pulled agro off of a wizzy that raids with us after he crit fusioned on pull. Mobs targeted him as soon as I got them into place, DM went up and BAM, agro back on me =P. We could MT before this change as I have been doing it for a long while now, but this is a nice change and addition to our snap agro. =D TY DEVS =D.</DIV>

[KFizzle]

<DIV>I am not a SK. I hate SKs (no i dont). I can validate what Deludar said about the other day (wasnt tanking then) but me and him tried messing with it last night with me (zerk) pulling a crazy amount of mobs in PoA, throwing up Insolent Gibe, and Open wounds...and even if the mobs were half dead or more and he did NOTHING the entire fight, they INSTANTLY turned to him once he threw up DM. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>All i'm gunna say is, I wish i had DM...I still really dont know (nor care) What the spell does...i just want something that pulls agro like that, even without any other function! I even tried to rescue (M1) a mob off him after he threw that up and it didnt work. DM is sexy. </DIV>

[Pitt Hammerfi]

yes were a sexy class now <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Zehl_Ice-Fire]

<DIV>It made me die 2 times in Lyceum /cry.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I was in the MT group as we were giving Chel'Drak another try later last night, and was wondering if casting it before the pull would be a good idea to at least help us get set up properly and healers not stunned on pull and tank down right away.... then someone was like doesn't sanctuary do all that? It does.... templar Sanctuary does the same thing as far as immunities... I haven't cast it yet just before a pull to see if that still gives agro, will try that tonight maybe.</DIV>

[Kelkirra]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Pitt Hammerfist wrote:<BR>yes were a sexy class now <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Haven't we always been <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Rylight]

<P>some interesting responses we have here. I am on the pvp server and I must say DM is GREAT against mage classes. first thing a mage will do (of course) is root you, and thats when the magic begins! casting DM while rooted instantly breaks the root and gives you enough time to charge and interrupt the mage while casting. This also works well for some of the scouts that have roots (I think rangers?)</P> <P>another thing any PVP sk should know is casting DM before using your HT makes your HT MUCH stronger (considering you get 100+ int)</P> <P>also (and I havent tried this yet) but the theory is that casting DM before evacing should shorten your evac in half, which is great for the sk being chased by the mobs of Q's</P> <P>all in all it looks to be a great extra emergency taunt complementing rescue and HT </P>

[Mistmoore-Milaga]

<div><blockquote><hr>Rylight wrote:<div></div><p>also (and I havent tried this yet) but the theory is that casting DM before evacing should shorten your evac in half, which is great for the sk being chased by the mobs of Q's</p><hr></blockquote>At the suggestion of someone on this board I started using DM before casting Call of the Overlord. Yes, it does shorten the cast time, so I imagine it would as well for evac.<div><blockquote><hr>Rylight wrote:<p>all in all it looks to be a great extra emergency taunt complementing rescue and HT </p><hr></blockquote>I don't know if it's the fact that Rescue doesn't scale adequately into T7, but I've noticed in raids sometimes that getting a Rescue off does not take aggro. I don't know if I was that far down the hate list or what, but it's happened a number of times. Not just to me but other tanks as well.  DM has a much longer range (infinite, essentially),  works without changing targets and on everything in the raid. I'd really like to hear an estimate on what hate we think this thing generates.Rescuing and then casting DM should get you instant aggro even if you had been AFK for the whole fight. I'm backup tank to our guardian and if he goes down I rescue, DM and then Divine Aura (half casting time) to buy healers time to get reactives on me. Works extremely well.</div></div>

[rabid.pooh]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Sarasoon wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Pitt Hammerfist wrote:<BR>yes were a sexy class now <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Haven't we always been <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>OOOhhhh, I'm dead sexy <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.</P> <P>I think what death march does do, is puts SK's in the perfect position for 2nd tank.  I don't think any class can touch our hate generation for group encounters and seperate mob encouters now.  If that MT goes down, we can draw everything to us, and then follow it up instantly with a tap viens for that extra hate.</P> <P> </P><p>Message Edited by rabid.pooh on <span class=date_text>09-20-2006</span> <span class=time_text>11:34 AM</span>

[Kelkirra]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> rabid.pooh wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Sarasoon wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Pitt Hammerfist wrote:<BR>yes were a sexy class now <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Haven't we always been <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>OOOhhhh, I'm dead sexy <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.</P> <P>I think what death march does do, is puts SK's in the perfect position for 2nd tank.  I don't think any class can touch our hate generation for group encounters and seperate mob encouters now.  If that MT goes down, we can draw everything to us, and then follow it up instantly with a tap viens for that extra hate.</P> <P> </P> <P>Message Edited by rabid.pooh on <SPAN class=date_text>09-20-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>11:34 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Maybe for joooooooooo to be a second tank, for me. . .it's an awsome addition to my hate generating tools. =D Our wizzy can now come in and fusion when he wants. Granted, he has a macro that tells me when he's casting fusion (Inc wizzy rescue, get ready to rez me) and with both spells being on the same recast timers, he really gets a kick out of powning mobs now =P.