General advice about berserker or SK.

[Eetog]

I did a lot of searching, but couldn't really come to a conclusion if I had enough info...I have a level 51 berserker. He's decked out in some pretty good stuff, all the HQs that I can do, and I have a full suit of imbued Cobalt in the bank waiting for the toon I want to consider my main. I've moved to a weird play schedule to where I will be soloing a lot. I have a level 30 SK. I find myself gravitating toward him because of the self heal / lifetaps, and I played one in EQ1. SKs have a special place in my heart. Spooky-evil necro-tank? Sign me up!!Given the new soloing situation, if you folks had to pick, would you continue on with the berserker and hope that the in-combat health regen and haste would keep you alive? He currently is using the stam line and has 4-4-4-3, going for double attack maxing....Or would you go for SK for sheer survivability?What I wanna go for is to be self-sufficient-ghetto-uber for stuff I can do. I'm in a guild but it's hard to log in and dedicate the time to the really cool stuff. I want to have nice stuff, but it doesn't have to be the be-all / end-all best stuff in the game. Just to where I can solo and see some neato stuffs. Additionally, I talked to a pretty cool decked out zerker on my server (thanks Gorilla Glue <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  ), and he said the easiest fights he has are against SKs. I found that hard to believe with HT, lifetaps, the lifetap procs and reverse lifetap damage shields, but hey, he's a 70 zerker and he is more knowledgable than I about the game...Any advice would be great, and happy Thursday. Tog.<div></div>

[Norrsken]

<div><blockquote><hr>Eetog wrote:I did a lot of searching, but couldn't really come to a conclusion if I had enough info...I have a level 51 berserker. He's decked out in some pretty good stuff, all the HQs that I can do, and I have a full suit of imbued Cobalt in the bank waiting for the toon I want to consider my main. I've moved to a weird play schedule to where I will be soloing a lot. I have a level 30 SK. I find myself gravitating toward him because of the self heal / lifetaps, and I played one in EQ1. SKs have a special place in my heart. Spooky-evil necro-tank? Sign me up!!Given the new soloing situation, if you folks had to pick, would you continue on with the berserker and hope that the in-combat health regen and haste would keep you alive? He currently is using the stam line and has 4-4-4-3, going for double attack maxing....Or would you go for SK for sheer survivability?What I wanna go for is to be self-sufficient-ghetto-uber for stuff I can do. I'm in a guild but it's hard to log in and dedicate the time to the really cool stuff. I want to have nice stuff, but it doesn't have to be the be-all / end-all best stuff in the game. Just to where I can solo and see some neato stuffs. Additionally, I talked to a pretty cool decked out zerker on my server (thanks Gorilla Glue <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  ), and he said the easiest fights he has are against SKs. I found that hard to believe with HT, lifetaps, the lifetap procs and reverse lifetap damage shields, but hey, he's a 70 zerker and he is more knowledgable than I about the game...Any advice would be great, and happy Thursday. Tog.<div></div><hr></blockquote>My sk eats zerkers for breakfast on the PvP servers, also, my sk beats my zerker for solo play any day.Those lifetaps are just plain nasty. HT? Bah, I'd happily give it away for some more lifetaps. Or a second proc line. /drool</div>

[Nicholai24]

Shadowknight. Berserkers are a dime a dozen, don't solo as well until they're very well equipped and AA'd, tank about as well, and seem kind of bland by comparison. Shadowknights take some AA's to come into their own, but have a much cooler feel to them. Stick with it.As for PvP and duels.. With an equal-equipped 'zerker versus SK, the SK will win, almost every time, unless the 'zerker has an excellent player driving him.<div></div>

[Beldin_]

As long as we don't talk about raids .. SK all the way .. they are much better in soloing, and in groups i think i'm at least as good as any zerker, but SK is much more fun. Ok .. i only played a zerker until 30 .. but it was that boring compared to my SKs <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Coica]

thre more I play  my Sk, the happier I am. i started using tools like feign death more often. i started using the group evac more often. and now we get an improved death march?! ya.. I'd stick with the Sk. I think you'll notice how much more fun they are to play especially once you get into the 50's.<div></div>

[Ellestil]

<P>I started off playing a zerker as well. I cannot speak about zerker end game however, because around level 30 with that toon I decided to go SK instead. The difference is noticeable. SK's gain in power as you level/gear/AD3/Master/AA up noticeably. Once your at higher levels you really start to realize the SK's true potential. All those taps, procs, ward taps, spells, and such add up to a great playing class. You are even giving a little leniancy to learn with your feign death ability. Pulled something to hard? NP, FD and try something else or a different mob. At least you didn't have to run screaming like a zerker would lol. Really get into trouble? Evac and move to a different spot. It really is a fun class to play the higher you get with it. And it's not a [Removed for Content] class by any means, once you get some fabled gear and masters built up, you'll see what I mean. The class ability has alot to do with player skill moreso than any inherent strength/weakness to the class. Many weaknesses in the class can be bolstered up if you plan around them and use your AA wisely, or use the appropriate gear.</P> <P>Ellestil</P>

[CHIMPNOODLE.]

<P>I'd have to say SK. We have so many "little extras" and are extremly solid in the end-game. Life-taps /temp pet/evac (for safety and travel) /FD (great for geting deep into some dungeons/areas quickly without having to fight every single mob, saving errant nukers in raids and re-establishing agro on the MT if not MT, a safety if not tanking and necros/brawlers are slow on FDs, survivability), nice soloing and AOE dammage/aggro control,couple incredible debuffs....1460 mitigation debuff A3 (1700 at master I) and disease 1600+, 1 rescue and 3 pseudo rescues (HT, FD and now DM (very nice AA line, 70% slow A3, group minor heal proc, and on and on <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>Also, most SKs give zerkers the beatdown in duels from what I've seen, and the few duels I've tried against comparably geared zerkers. Never know what there spell mastery levels were etc. though.</P>

[Liten]

I play on a PvP server with a 38 SK and I solo a lot. I have never played a zerker so I cannot speak to that.I do very well soloing everywhere. I have yet to figure out a good way to solo Heroics, but I'm sure it will come. SK is versatile and fun and I beat the snot out of zerkers every time. In PvP I think SK are the best tank period. Whenever I fight a tank 1v1 I win unless he is orange or red con to me and most of the time even if they are orange. Monks always try and gank me, but they are sad when they realize their Mit is almost useless because most dps is disease based. Paladins are easy if you time your interrupts right, Gaurds and Zerks dont have a chance. Furies are probably my toughest fight or illusionists if they get the jump on me and lock me down. Scouts can be tough, but most of the time they end up evacing although its fun to HT an evacing scout and laugh when he falls down dead. This isnt to say I dont get my [Removed for Content] handed to me by skilled pvpers of any class....a lot. At 38 I can take 4 or 5 blue to even con mobs with no arrows at a time and come out of the fight almost full helth and 40%-50% power. I am in a full set of feysteel armor with axe and kite shield as well with decent but not great jewelry.Yea SK are just plain fun.Hayte 38 Shadowknight 39 Armorer

[Wendingo]

I do not think you can beat the SK for soloing in the "Tank" line.  I also think in groups that the SK is at least as good as the zerker once you know what you are doing.  Knowing what you are doing makes a lot of difference anyway.  I was in a group last night with a guardian tanking and after the second wipe the healer said he was leaving if they did not let the SK tank <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> 

[Ardnahoy]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Wendingo wrote:<BR> I do not think you can beat the SK for soloing in the "Tank" line.  I also think in groups that the SK is at least as good as the zerker once you know what you are doing.  Knowing what you are doing makes a lot of difference anyway.  I was in a group last night with a guardian tanking and after the second wipe the healer said he was leaving if they did not let the SK tank <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>As much as I love my SK, and agree that it is a lot of fun to play, there is no way you can compare guardian tanking to SK tanking. A guardian is the king of tanking, bar none. My 48 guardian in full ebon has more HP than my 52 SK in full cobalt. In groups, my guardian, using Apprentice IV taunts, never ever has a problem with agro. In fact, I can go offensive and dual wield while being a group MT as a guardian, and no one can tell the difference. When my SK groups up as the MT, he has to go defensive, use a shield, and work really hard to maintain agro. The difference between the two in terms of pure tanking is staggering.</P> <P>If you were in a group where the guardian couldn't tank, then the player behind that guardian was teh suck. But don't get fooled into thinking SKs can tank anywhere near as well as a guardian. That is not true by a long shot.</P>

[HentaiB]

<P>I just typed a huge rant about how SKs can tank just as well as a guard.  I deleted it because everyone knows that it is true.</P> <P> </P><p>Message Edited by HentaiBOy on <span class=date_text>09-24-2006</span> <span class=time_text>08:24 AM</span>

[Norrsken]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Ardnahoy wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Wendingo wrote:<BR> I do not think you can beat the SK for soloing in the "Tank" line.  I also think in groups that the SK is at least as good as the zerker once you know what you are doing.  Knowing what you are doing makes a lot of difference anyway.  I was in a group last night with a guardian tanking and after the second wipe the healer said he was leaving if they did not let the SK tank <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>As much as I love my SK, and agree that it is a lot of fun to play, there is no way you can compare guardian tanking to SK tanking. A guardian is the king of tanking, bar none. My 48 guardian in full ebon has more HP than my 52 SK in full cobalt. In groups, my guardian, using Apprentice IV taunts, never ever has a problem with agro. In fact, I can go offensive and dual wield while being a group MT as a guardian, and no one can tell the difference. When my SK groups up as the MT, he has to go defensive, use a shield, and work really hard to maintain agro. The difference between the two in terms of pure tanking is staggering.</P> <P>If you were in a group where the guardian couldn't tank, then the player behind that guardian was teh suck. But don't get fooled into thinking SKs can tank anywhere near as well as a guardian. That is not true by a long shot.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Actually, I cant tell the difference between my zerker and sk. I dont lose aggro on any of them.<BR>The guard might provide more aggro, but, in the case of just adding fluff ontop of what you need to do, it wont be much better. The sk will still keep the aggro if played by a good player. Sure, he might have to do more than taunt (He most certainly will have to, but thats how the sks work). And my lifetaps usually takes care of the difference in health. So, if either one of them is wielded by a good player, it will be a good meatshield. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Ardnahoy]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> HentaiBOy wrote:<BR> <P>I just typed a huge rant about how SKs can tank just as well as a guard.  I deleted it because everyone knows that it is true.</P> <P> </P> <P>Message Edited by HentaiBOy on <SPAN class=date_text>09-24-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>08:24 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>SKs <STRONG><U>cannot</U></STRONG> tank as well as guards, and everybody knows that. Yes, SK's <EM>can</EM> tank, but they have to work much harder than a guardian under every conceivable combat condition. SK agro is completely inadequate, for example, to handle multiple encounters of multiple mobs. Sure, we have lifetaps, but they sure are hard to fire off when you are getting hit by 5 mobs at once, and in those two seconds (barring interrupts) of casting, the guardian fired off two taunts.</P> <P>I have never said that SKs can't tank or hold agro if played well. That is not the point. The differences are in the degrees in which one can perform tanking duties better than the other. My guardian can solo mobs, but my SK can solo them much much better. This doesn't mean a guardian can't solo, it just means that the SK is the better soloer. Likewise, guardian tanking is heads and shoulders above SK tanking.</P> <P>Play the two classes and see for yourself as I have. Unless something drastic changes from 52 to 70 that I have yet to experience, and that didn't exist from 1 to 52, then I stand corrected.</P><p>Message Edited by Ardnahoy on <span class=date_text>09-25-2006</span> <span class=time_text>10:24 AM</span>

[Tyrani]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Ardnahoy wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> HentaiBOy wrote:<BR> <P>I just typed a huge rant about how SKs can tank just as well as a guard.  I deleted it because everyone knows that it is true.</P> <P> </P> <P>Message Edited by HentaiBOy on <SPAN class=date_text>09-24-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>08:24 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>SKs <STRONG><U>cannot</U></STRONG> tank as well as guards, and everybody knows that. Yes, SK's <EM>can</EM> tank, but they have to work much harder than a guardian under every conceivable combat condition. <FONT color=#ff0000><STRONG>SK agro is completely inadequate, for example, to handle multiple encounters of multiple mobs.</STRONG></FONT> Sure, we have lifetaps, but they sure are hard to fire off when you are getting hit by 5 mobs at once, and in those two seconds (barring interrupts) of casting, the guardian fired off two taunts.</P> <P>I have never said that SKs can't tank or hold agro if played well. That is not the point. The differences are in the degrees in which one can perform tanking duties better than the other. My guardian can solo mobs, but my SK can solo them much much better. This doesn't mean a guardian can't solo, it just means that the SK is the better soloer. Likewise, guardian tanking is heads and shoulders above SK tanking.</P> <P>Play the two classes and see for yourself as I have. Unless something drastic changes from 52 to 70 that I have yet to experience, and that didn't exist from 1 to 52, then I stand corrected.</P> <P>Message Edited by Ardnahoy on <SPAN class=date_text>09-25-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>10:24 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Not discounting what you are saying, but at 52, you don't have Death March yet which almost completely invalidates the comment I've bolded.

[Norrsken]

<div><blockquote><hr>Ardnahoy wrote:<div></div> <div></div> <blockquote> <hr> HentaiBOy wrote: <div></div> <div></div> <p>I just typed a huge rant about how SKs can tank just as well as a guard.  I deleted it because everyone knows that it is true.</p> <p>Message Edited by HentaiBOy on <span class="date_text">09-24-2006</span> <span class="time_text">08:24 AM</span> </p><hr> </blockquote> <p>SKs <strong><u>cannot</u></strong> tank as well as guards, and everybody knows that. Yes, SK's <em>can</em> tank, but they have to work much harder than a guardian under every conceivable combat condition. SK agro is completely inadequate, for example, to handle multiple encounters of multiple mobs. Sure, we have lifetaps, but they sure are hard to fire off when you are getting hit by 5 mobs at once, and in those two seconds (barring interrupts) of casting, the guardian fired off two taunts.</p> <p>I have never said that SKs can't tank or hold agro if played well. That is not the point. The differences are in the degrees in which one can perform tanking duties better than the other. My guardian can solo mobs, but my SK can solo them much much better. This doesn't mean a guardian can't solo, it just means that the SK is the better soloer. Likewise, guardian tanking is heads and shoulders above SK tanking.</p> <p>Play the two classes and see for yourself as I have. Unless something drastic changes from 52 to 70 that I have yet to experience, and that didn't exist from 1 to 52, then I stand corrected.</p><p>Message Edited by Ardnahoy on <span class="date_text">09-25-2006</span> <span class="time_text">10:24 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote>Hammer ground helps you get those lifetaps off.And no, I really dont have to work harder to keep aggro on my sk. Im really just doing what I always do, and aggro keeps locked on me.Raids and groups.</div>

[CHIMPNOODLE.]

<P>" But don't get fooled into thinking SKs can tank anywhere near as well as a guardian. That is not true by a long shot."</P> <P>Completely false.</P> <P> </P> <P>"SK agro is completely inadequate, for example, to handle multiple encounters of multiple mobs."</P> <P>I find the opposite true. SKs actually excel at grabbing and locking down multiple mobs. They don't even have to switch targets while doing it. Again, way off base.</P>