How do you DPS on raids? Not numbers, I mean strategies

[Hark]

<div></div>Ok I see a lot of posts about how fellow SKs are getting 700-900 dps on raids.  I don't see this as being unreal, I just can't seem to get it yet.  And since i'm the only SK that raids with my guild I have no comparison.  This has been my goal since I came back just a month or so ago.This is strictly raid speaking, not 1200+ dps farming gazers or tanking in a group setup in defensive/offensive stance yawning.Against single target mobs there just is no way I can sustain over 450-550 dps using spells/CAs.  The only way I can see this happening is with a 100+ dmg rating two hander, some helpfull fellow groupies with dps/haste blah blah buffs.. cycling swiftaxe, maybe melee crits, and just letting you swing for 1300dmg a hit and just cycling your dots/debuffs.  I haven't tried this as I still need around 10 more AAs, and for some reason I can NOT find a 100+ dmg rating 2hander that has a dmg proc on it we can use.  (the only one i've really come accross is the fabeled katana from HoF)  If I could dmg the mob with Flowing thought we'd be ownage though.Right now I do for this setup I do: -siphon str on inc-dot, maybe an anger or so-Despoil (I do this a little late just so our monks and rogues don't get too dmg happy at the begining), a pet if I want to-redot maybe a pestilence-swiftaxe-Autoattack-swiftaxe wears off, I redot, anger, wrath, agony Despoil again whatever I need to in 10 sec downtime-Swiftaxe rinse and repeatWhen everything gets stable can start throwing in dots and angers in quick enough to not even skip a heartbeat with your autoattacks.  This seems to work well, but I haven't been able to fully test this out with a good weapon right AA load out and at least some group friendly dps buffs.So who does this?  Is this what I want to strive for?  Ideas, sugestions? In those long mana intensive fights I can see this being a plus for endurance fighting.AE encountersAEs I fair much better obviousally.  But I think I can still do better.  I can keep 600-700dps on AE fights more with more mobs of course.  I've had some good results with speccing agi line and using trample.  It almost makes me cringe when I have to recast death circle again instead of just swinging another round of autoattack dmg to see my 4 hits of 1200dmg.  But I would ditch this in a heartbeat for a little less AE dps for sustained higher dps in single target mobs.So are some people using the solo mob technique but just adding in thier misery/viens/circle/pestilence attacks in the mix?  Hows it fairing out for you.God I never see SKs anymore to talk this crap about in game.<div></div><p>Message Edited by Harkov on <span class=date_text>07-20-2006</span> <span class=time_text>09:02 PM</span>

[Beldin_]

One question .. do your zerkers do 2000+ dps .. or just 400 ? Do your Conjis do 1800 dps or just 800 ? If they do the lower numbers ... forget abou all the bull[expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] about dps numbers you read here on the boards .. just compare to other persons in your raid or group <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Hark]

<div></div><div></div>haha no I don't want to compare to beserkers or assassinsActually in my guild it's the 18 monks that are spiking like 2k dps in thier sleep.  Yeah few beserkers are with em but it's certianly a monk/bruiser clubhouse lolI just want to compare to other SKs!here lets put it in perspective, now these aren't actual numbers but they are pretty average for how a situation goesIn a midly long fight i'll tick away around 145k dmgThat puts me almost at the end of the list for our parser freaks in chat channelThe first slot is always a monk at like 450k, the next are all brigs/monks/zerkers...a few wizzies conjs and the stuff hovering around 250-300 in the middle.  A few monks or whoever that is sleepy a little lower in the pack around 175-200k.  ME, .. then furys, bards, and whoever.I don't want to be higher on the list, Its just there's such a huge difference between me and the next person in front of me.. all the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] time.<div></div><p>Message Edited by Harkov on <span class="date_text">07-20-2006</span> <span class="time_text">09:20 PM</span></p><p>Message Edited by Harkov on <span class=date_text>07-20-2006</span> <span class=time_text>09:22 PM</span>

[Singulari]

<div></div>For once, I'm going to chime in here, I lurk these forums a lot but rarely post, and this is really beginning to irratate me <span>:smileywink:</span>We can DPS on raids, quite simply, even with an appaulling set up on a single target, 700 DPS is quite possible, in a good group anything from 1.5k, or if you're exceptionally lucky, or in an awesome set up, maybe 2k, maybe.I don't care for bragging, it's why I don't post, but for heaven's sake guys, we can beat 700 DPS, I'll screeny some parses when I can and prove it if I must but we all know where bragging has got other classes.. Some are still recovering vital organs from the floor, the nerf bat left quite a mark.It's pretty early here so I'm going to actually play for a bit and think through what else I'm going to post <span>:smileyhappy:Edit:: (This is why you don't let me post before 8am, I forget everything) another factor in this is how you're actually parsing, I've had a look round and the disparity is occasionally so huge it can't simple be their DPS, there may be something the parser is missing.</span><div></div><p>Message Edited by Singularity on <span class=date_text>07-20-2006</span> <span class=time_text>11:47 PM</span>

[Nicholai24]

Good melee criticals, good DPS buffers and haste in your group, good combat buffs. These are all good to have if you plan on making a push for the higher tiers of damage on a raid. Remember, a lot of your DPS comes from what debuffers and buffers are available, as well as what level the enemy is, and whether or not they're all that resilient versus disease damage.My usual assault system for maximum damage on a raid is:Sacrilege --> Agony --> Despoil --> Siphon Strength --> Putrid Coil, Abominable Anger, Drain Vitae --> Pet Summon --> Pestilence --> Refresh debuffs --> Start cycling combat arts, plus quick DD's, using A-Bomb Wrath whenever it reloads.With a proper two-hander -- Hell, even a Kettleleader Katana -- and the proper buffs, you should come close to 800ish DPS over a sustained combat. Remember, a lot of our damage comes from criticals and weapon procs., and all weapon procs. count as spells. Make sure your lifetap procs. are all upgraded properly, and make sure your offensive stance is Adept III or better.Really, I don't even care about parses anymore. I just do my job.<div></div>

[Mmaster]

I usually blaspheme, then use all my dots, waiting between each for the auto-attack, then nuke, and continue to go through all my spells with auto-attack inbetween, in the mage group I will get a steady 750-900dps that way, and in the mt group with a coercer a little less. <div></div>

[Hicar]

<div></div>First it's buffs. For best dps, you need highest dps and haste you can get. Then procs.. we can use all type of procs. Then a slow, very slow weapon, with very high damage rating, to get those procs going on your auto attacks more often (soe vision of proc rate normalizing is flawed and based on little variations.. slow delays wil lget you more procs overall). I use pride's edge at the moment : 3,5 delay with 106 + DR, and a swarm pets proc (2 little lions for 10s, they hit for 200 ish each swing). Drops from the gnome in DT.If you can't get dps or haste buffer, get haste and dps procs, imbued rings or those HA leggings from the nightblood in commune of k'dal.My AA set up atm is str with 4 in swift axe and 8 is passive haste, wis with 8 in skill buff and int with 68 proc rate on spells.I'll keep sacrilege and agony up all the time for the debuffs, despoil asap. I'll get swift axe up as much as possible, switching weapon. When swift axe buff is up, i'll spam all skills with < 1 s cast, including our fast cast pbae even on single targets if power isn't a problem, and use others during the 10 s of downtime on swift axe. Use a pause between skills to allow auto attack to go off.We lack a bit on haste buffers atm, so i'll usually be between 41 passive haste and 84 when both swift axe and imbued ring are up. I'll usually have easilly  100 % dps. Using this way of fighting, i usually do between 850 and 1k dps on single targets... Usually agro becomes a problem if i go higher than that. Maybe i should try without sacrilege. Now, my group setup isn't optimal, as we lack bards for some reasons.Ideal group setup for me would be something like : troubador, coercer, inq, assassin, wizard, coercer, with an illu somewhere giving me dynamism and coercer giving me detaunt buff, assassin and wizard giving me their proc, inq for dps buff and focus haste.<div></div><p>Message Edited by Hicarse on <span class=date_text>07-21-2006</span> <span class=time_text>10:30 AM</span>

[Beldin_]

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Harkov wrote:<BR> <BR>The first slot is always a monk at like 450k, the next are all brigs/monks/zerkers...a few wizzies conjs and the stuff hovering around 250-300 in the middle.  A few monks or whoever that is sleepy a little lower in the pack around 175-200k.  ME, .. then furys, bards, and whoever.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>In groups i normally  do the same or a little more then our monk, and thats normally 400-500k if i parse the total over maybe 2-3 hours. 175-200 is a little low, thats more what i mostly see on our Pala <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </P> <P>Hm.. jist looked for the only long fight i did in the last time in my log .. that was a duo againts magolemus, and yeah i had to spare on my mana there and only did 336 dps against him while our Necro with his pet made 915 :smileysad: <BR></P>

[Hark]

<div><blockquote><hr>Singularity wrote:<div></div>For once, I'm going to chime in here, I lurk these forums a lot but rarely post, and this is really beginning to irratate me <span>:smileywink:</span>We can DPS on raids, quite simply, even with an appaulling set up on a single target, 700 DPS is quite possible, in a good group anything from 1.5k, or if you're exceptionally lucky, or in an awesome set up, maybe 2k, maybe.I don't care for bragging, it's why I don't post, but for heaven's sake guys, we can beat 700 DPS<hr></blockquote>I dunno I just been toying around around at raids lately trying to maximize my dps.  This is of course within reason, I can't exactly yell at the raid leader to put the SK in a certain group makeup to be selfish and maximize just my dps.  Everything is reserved for the brigs, [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn], rangers, monks, swashies.I was parsing a silly 2 group poets raid other night we did because we were bored.  My same tactics, I swear It's hard pressed to fall under 1k dps.  More than a few times I was at the top of the charts (which shocked me a little actually).  So really was comparing some logs to other people that I have parses for, mostly monks mind you..  Thier dps increased of course because it was green cons, but not even close to as dramatically as mine did.  Going from fighting a yellow con to a green for them was like an average 50% increase in dps.  Very respectable, but for me some fights I would hit upwards of 3x as much and no fight was less than at least double.  I kept stealing aggro! Hell I can't do that in death toll if I tried, my dps just isn't up to it.  Ok, it's not that hard to play a SK lol.  It's not like we have a billion skills or ways of doing things.  We dot, nuke, and melee.  Why such a dramatic increase?  Ok so if this one monk is doing 1750average dps in poets and in death toll he's doing 1200dps.. vs me I spike upwards 2k no problem, but in lyceum or anywhere not doing a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] thing different i'm super happy to pull in 700dps what gives.  Do I need to be yelling at people for more debuffs? I mean it's not like they aren't mit debuffing mobs here.  I'm sure since we got like 3 defilers per raid now one of them is disease debuffing lol.  I dunno maybe we are saying the same thing because groups i'm put in mostly do not maximize my performance.  Like I said, prolly some groups are almost as bad as me just being solo, and those are types of groups i'm spouting out numbers like 450-550dps.  I have some AA and weapon tweaking and i'm sure 700dps consistantly against single target is no problem.  I've just been curious if the way i'm leading myself with my thought patterns, given the right situation, right group.. I will be able to do some respectable dps.  It hasn't happened yet in a real raid, and I am just curious how other SKs in compareable situations are laying out thier dmg in raids.  Idealy, and I'm not singling you out <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> anyone!.. I'd love to see a dmg parse of say a raid encounter against a single target mob where around 1k-1.5k dps is displayed in.. I'd love to look at what % of what spells/skills/melee/procs make up how much dmg. </div>

[Xanoth]

its rare that i go all out these days, as i proved to myself we could do it, then settled back down for something more balanced and capable of still grabbing adds/lost agro if needed without going down in seconds.anyway...frist things first make sure your STR and INT are capped. try to have a haste item, gloves from first trial of MoA work a treat for me, as im still missing gornair for my DT access reward <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> erm less digression...equip any spell proc stuff you can, and pester people in your group for magic procs... it all crits with your spell cirts, the more the merrier. bone clasped girdle comes in handy too. a good proc on a 2h is great too.for the actuall fight i'll usually go something along the lines of:siphonesacrelageagonycoilmiserypestilence -[ by this point you have a lot of dots slowly clocking down, so your DPS will stay constant if you take time out to cast debuffs... ]-despoilbrand... otherscan't really remember what else i do, but getting the timing right is important too as mentioned above. if you start to cast too early you might miss an auto attack swing. unless you have a really slow weapon delay try not to regularly cast anything with over 2s casting time. if despoil is still recharging i'll sometimes throw a wrath in at that point, but im still unsure if the long casting time is worth missing a few auto attacks for.its very possible to reach over 1k DPS on single targets. and thats hardly super damage considering teir1 DPS can get over 2k, so i doubt we have reason to fear the nerf bat.also as you've gone the STR aa line, if you have a dirge in your group, try to time your haste buff with them casting CoB, and pre casting debuffs ready for it.use the /weapon command when your fully hasted, check what your actual delay is. you'll probbaly find it will still allow for a few quick cast spels like coil. i've never found relying on auto attack alone to give good numbers, although my haste is rarely over 50%, and i dont get much DPS buffs these days due to a coercer shortage.one thing i've not had in my group for a long time is a troubadour... i used to pull agro all the time due to spells procs during DoF, never been grouped with one since. so might be worth looking into....hope my ramblings make sense <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Hark]

oh one other thing, whew it is way too early hehI'm not in any way [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing about SKs! I just feel, no I know, i'm not bringing my full effectiveness to bear at raids atm, and I can't tolerate that.  Asking questions saves a lot of trial and error, and I could not find one post about this subject that was SK specific so I decided to make one  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />If I wanted to be DPS king I would of rerolled a long long [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] time ago.  I just don't care for being designated flower stomper in lyceum because i'm among the weakest links.  It kills me because the potential is there with major tweaking and working for key items I need.<div></div>

[Xanoth]

<blockquote><hr>Harkov wrote:I'd love to look at what % of what spells/skills/melee/procs make up how much dmg.<hr></blockquote>i find melee damage rarely makes up more than 30% of our total damage, i'll post back after i next get to play and see what the numbers come out at.

[Ultimatum]

<div></div><div></div><div></div><div><blockquote><hr>Xanoth wrote:<blockquote><hr>Harkov wrote:I'd love to look at what % of what spells/skills/melee/procs make up how much dmg.<hr></blockquote>i find melee damage rarely makes up more than 30% of our total damage, i'll post back after i next get to play and see what the numbers come out at.<hr></blockquote>I used to pour over parses a lot studying what spells are the most efficient over the course of raids.  When we parsed we would take the entire raid zone all together, so I don't really have any single target parses to compare, but over the course of a raid I have found that (everything is based off of a spells % of damage compared to the total amount of damage done on the entire raid):-Auto Attack only makes up about 7-15% of your total damage depending on how good you are at timing spells to make sure you miss the least amount of swings possible to stringing spells/CAs together-Tap Veins and other AEs are the most efficient spells over the course of long raids due to the sheer number of trash mobs.  Best bet is to save AEs for fights with 3+ mobs.  I've found that Tap Veins is about 12% by itself, Unending Misery is about 9%, and Death Circle is about 6% of your total damage.-As for single target spells over the course of a raid, Putrid Coil is the highest damage spell at 7%, and the rest fall in the 3-5% range.Now that we've established what spells are the most potent (this isn't to say to reduce the casting of anything else, it's all about timing.  You obviosly want to save your AEs for when there are 2-3+ mobs to hit.  Also, timing Pestilence is critical in it's efficiency.)  Procs are another story.  Weapons with procs based off of melee are pretty much a waste as I've already pointed out that melee makes up such a small portion of our total damage (similarly, haste is pretty much a waste on an SK unless you have a weapon with a 4.0 or higher delay...We cast so much that we would miss way too many melee swings with haste).  Procs based off hostile spells, however, are essential to an SK who wants to maximize DPS.  Any class buffs that do this are HUGE.  An illusionist can single handedly boost your DPS by 80-100 depending on the quality os his Synergism spell.  This spell alone can contribute upwards of 12-15% of your total damage, and adding a Troubadour's similar buff is just wicked.  Also, any gear that procs off hostile spells is a must:  Mystical Orb of the Invoker, Fitzpitzle's Misty Protector, Bone-Clasped Girdle, Vraksikin Claw Club, etc. are huge in contributing DPS.  Also, keep in mind that if you have an optimal setup with Troub and Illusionist hostile spell buffs, and a number of proc items, your Taunts become valuable and fast-refreshing instruments of death.  I've found that my highest dps parses came from wearing the Raiment of the Skywatcher (for the hostile spell proccing detaunt) and going all out taunting as well.  The robe should be just enough to keep the mobs off you and still keep you at the top of the hate list in cast the MT goes down.  Just make sure you have your BP in your hotbar to quikly swap it on in a pinch <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />In conclusion, an SKs dps is largely based off of timing and weather or not we have the proper buffs from classes on the raid.  It might take some convincing to get a troub and illusionist to use a concentration point on you, just promise them you'll prove that it's worth it...with spell crits you will always cause more damage with those buffs than any other class, sometimes 50-75% more.  With practice on timing your spells with autoattacks and some convincing to get properly buffed, you should be well on your way to an obscenely high parse <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div><p>Message Edited by Razerblaze on <span class=date_text>07-21-2006</span> <span class=time_text>09:56 AM</span>

[Singulari]

<div></div><div></div>Something that is worth mentioning, the order you hit your spells will have an effect but honestly, it is limited, obviously get the DoTs first and keep them up, aside from that though it's up to you where you go.Watch what 2 hander you use and its delay, the DPS your actually slashing damage puts out can be quite a lot, by queing up spells, you don't swing at the mob at all, potentially losing out on 200-300 DPS (30% is a lot of damage to lose out on, afterall), I recommend a slow-ish delay 2 hander (I use Rak'leklo, but also have 41% haste self buffed). Honestly, aside from getting the DoTs right, the timing of the spell can't be helped much by you, pray something procs or the mob is debuffed, just don't que up all your CAs, let yourself swing between each spell, you'll also find you're not waiting 10 seconds for the next spell to come up if you do it that way, meaning you keep you DPS steady as opposed to just bursts (Obviously in AE you'll have bursts, but single target, at least), this works for me at least, it's all down to how you play, when it comes down to it no one can tell you how to DPS.Someone else may tell you to get a symbol out and just screw the slashing damage, but in my experience that's only worth bothering in a group with a troub, and even then, half them time I'd rather keep a 2 hander out <span>:smileyhappy:Edit:: Above poster pretty much summed it up <span>:smileytongue:</span>Either way, even if auto attack isn't 30%, it's best to time it, or you do lose out, and yes, Precision, Synergism, Frigid Gift are all extremely helpful, as are proc items, really our DPS can have a huge range depending on what group you're in, heh.</span><div></div><p>Message Edited by Singularity on <span class="date_text">07-21-2006</span> <span class="time_text">06:53 AM</span></p><p>Message Edited by Singularity on <span class=date_text>07-21-2006</span> <span class=time_text>06:53 AM</span>

[Pentarum]

Hiya Harkov <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I know you've seen me do some nice dps when we've grouped a few times and there are 2 things I've done to get that dps up. 1st your hotbar setup. It needs to be smooth and progress fast. I have mine setup so that the fastest cast spells/dot/dd are first. Get them off right away even the aoe dots like unending misery add alot to your dps on single mobs. Plus they are so fast cast you can get them off and start cranking up the bigger long casts while your still creating dps. Certain spells I just dont bother with cause the cast times are long enough that I would do more damage to ignore them and also cause someone else in raid is usually doing it for you. Despoil for example while it does add a decent ammount to your damage is not worth casting unless its a raid named mob or your raid is scout/fighter heavy. By the time you finish casting it you could have already got off 2 dot aoe's 1single target dot and poped your swiftaxe. Doing more damage than you would have gained by casting the despoil. The only time I bother using Despoil,siphon str and a few others is if I can get them off before the attack call or if Im waiting on alot of arts to repop. a good 80% of our damage comes from spells. Using despoil will help the raid but it will hurt your overall dps. I can tell you that I often pull agro off the raid tank even without taunts. Its not uncommon for me to bite it though when I go full out even without HT. Also hold back on casting anything other than coil and unending misery while swiftaxe ir running. You will be wasting it and the nice boost it gives. Better to wait till its gone then repeat the whole process you will get more dps in the long run on longer fights. Also on Pestilence.... If its a single target mob get it off asap so it resets faster. If its a group of mobs wait untill that mob is around 15-20% hp so that you get the full effect of the dot on that mob and still spread it to the others when it dies. If you use it right away your cutting its damage output by 2/3 or more. If your confident on your raid tanks agro then make sure to start off the fight with Sacrilege. You will get alot more damage over time with the aoe's, dot and dd's. Our pet in general for me has been a big waste of time on raid named. They get off 1-5 hits and get killed by aoe. The time you took to cast it you could have been getting more damage with auto attack or dots. If your pulling use Wrath then every ranged art you have on the inc. Coil, Abominable anger, Pet, Despoil, Siphon str (while running back to raid <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> then pop off the aoes and swiftaxe. Here is my main hotbar and I usually cast them in this order then pop swiftaxe while they reset. Bar 1 - Auto attack, Ho, Agony, Putrid Coil, Unending misery, Death Circle, Tap Veins, Pestilence, Abominable Wrath, Swiftaxe, Switch back to 2hs after 2 sec. (Agony will turn auto attack on for you but I just like to have the button there incase) By the time I switch back to the 2hs Putrid coil is about reset. I will recast that normally but thats it nothing else till swiftaxe runs its course. If your out of things to casty at any point start using special items like Brock's Thermal shocker and the Unholy Helm of the Deathknight. Both fast cast and very nice damage with our crit aa's. I normally average 550-750 and im far from uber with mostly legendary gear, a 93.6 weapon and still half my masters missing at level 70.  If I unload everything as fast as possible I can do 800-1200 dps but that will normally get me killed if I dont get fd off in time and is sure to [Removed for Content] off the raid tank. <div></div>

[Bruener]

<DIV>Well gonna say that AA set-up is a huge factor.  For optimum DPS I went Str, Sta, and Int...4,4,8 in all of them than put my last point in Lego's Smite since I use this spell a lot.  Also, I don't think that I have to mention to get your damage spells upgraded to at least adept 3, preferably master.  Other than that all I can say is group set-up.  We can bounce a few hundred dps just based on the group set-up we are in.  Get that chanter to hook you up with the DPS buff, and make sure that you have your int capped.  Oh, and I prefer to use a 1h (Doomsworn Scepter) and 2 symbols to help make sure that int is capped and be able to use Lego's Smite.</DIV>

[TooWick]

<DIV>okay maybe its just me, but im level 70, starting raiding a lot more with guild, last night clearing trash in Lyceum, my friend had his parser up, i was just about snipping in with 350-400dps, now all this speak of timing ur moves etc... i dunno, maybe i havent researched it enough, but what are the best tactics to fight, until now, iv just been doing what i thought works :/ lol, but yeh even the simple stuff, or a good page for it would be awesome <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thanks</DIV>

[Zoradan]

<P>I can run 1200+ on group epic encounters in just abought any raid instance zone.</P> <P>Tips: Master Spells, Max int, AA line aoe's.</P> <P>If you can't cap int check the broker for int potions the good ones add 66.</P> <P>Group make up is a huge part of DPS. I can just abought get a drunk monkie to run 800+ dps if given the procs. The catch is as an SK ya not gona get them procs, there gona go to Assassins or some other DPS class. Procs like Agitate ect.</P> <P>Time your aoe's, get dispoil on and unload. Nice thing abought being a Tank is you will usualy life if you some how get agro (I normaly don't). If you have the AA aoe's use them, set a hot bar up with weps so you can swap them out, do it, I change weps 2-3-4 times a fight to toggle AA spells.</P> <P>There are a lot of good cheep procing items, orbs from collection quests, Bone-clasp girdle, 2 handers there 100 of them in the game. Your int will help the proc damage. Get ya self procked out.</P> <P>It take some timing and you have to pay atention, if you miss the first round of spells your dps is gona be horid. </P> <P>It's usualy obvious on the parser when I'm slacking, I drop from 6th or so on the list to 500 dps :smileytongue: Our Pally and I both can run up 1kdps constantly when we have groups behind us, she can run even higher than that, it's fun to see the dps pars with an SK, Paly and Monk on it all the time.... Tho that means most the other guys are slacking off, but trash talking usualy gets them rollen again.</P>

[Beldin_]

I must say, this is finally a helpfull thread where everyone can see that DPS not only comes from the class itselfs but from the synergys of some classes and items. I really always hate these threads wher persons complain that class x does 2k dps, while class y only does 500 without knowing the setup of the groups and then calls for nerfs of class x because they are so ub0r.

[Bobbette]

So Zoradan, what AA set up do you have?I respeced yet again to get the Str down to the 10% reduced reuse & casting times the other day.  Lost the sta line with the aoe hammer skill to do it tho.  I have the Int line to 68% spell crits (doesn't everyone?).  9 points leftover I'm still trying to figure out what to do with ... so I'm not sure what I chose was optimal.I've worked for maximizing dps on my SK because we have more than enough 'tanks' and needed dps more ... and I know SKs can pump it out if done right.I'm always on the lookout for better weapons but right now that's just not gonna happen until my guild gets places we haven't been yet.  So in the meantime I'm upgrading spells and looking at AAs and combat/group strategies to maximize what I do have.<div></div>

[Hark]

Thanks for help everyone, most people just confirmed everything had started doing by myself anyways. I've found that weapon choice has a big impact on everything.  I recently just got a jaid inlaid axe with 3.5s delay, no proc but oh well what can you do.  The delay on this is kick [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn], with haste and everything it's mostly hovering around 2.0-2.2s which basically I can cycle through almost every attack I have in between swings.. even smash which for just dps standpoint sucks hah.. but I don't even miss a swing.  This axe hardly hits under 1k and more than a few times i've notice lots of nice well over 2k+ hits with some dps group mods.  In a good solid fight it certianly is doing at least 400dps in melee dmg by itself. I need 8 more AAs till 50, and they are all going into melee crits now lol.  That and bone clasp girdle (yay lvling tradeskills) I've started to become very happy with dps output.  I'm not tier 1 or tier 2 but i'm a fighter class!  This is surprisingly very power hungry setup because i'm still basically firing off everything I got just not loosing any melee in the proccess (wrath is an exception and it still is at least a gaurenteed 1k+ hit, depending how i'm hitting i'll fire it off or not.. if i'm hitting weak and the mob isn't debuffed perfect at that point i'll launch it).  I even can do mana sieve midfight without feeling guilty of loosing any dps what so ever.I was very interested seeing how many people actually fire off sacriledge in a fight.  I know it adds a lot to dmg especially our dots but I never thought the aggro issues that could follow was worth it.  I've been doing it lately at least one time a fight and I make sure to have coil, pest, and misery going at the time, yes I've taken aggro once or twice but it actually is pretty [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] hard to steal it, almost to the point of not worrying about it.I've only done a few raids with this setup and haven't personally parsed it myself to see everything i'm doing % dmg wise, going to tonight.  But from guild parses my total dmg at least is keeping up nicely with even the monks and zerkers (yes still a little lower) but at least it's not like a million dmg difference, just a couple 10-100k overall in a raid at the end of the night.Right now i'm 4 4 8 str4 4    sta4 4 8 intI'll prolly end up doing 4 5 8 sta when I hit 50 (god i'm a slack [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> ) as i'm really digging the hammer stun for getting off tap viens.  Even if i'm slow at it, it really takes away the majority of the attacks I need to channel through to get it off.  It's really helpfull if i'm doing this around 70% hps as opposed to waiting under 50%.Agi line was fun even with a spear, but ultimately the delay on most spears even the one from tirinax is just too quick to be effective in a melee dmg setup.  Joust just rocked, and trample especially since you can feign now and keep up the 2nd buff just owns.  But ultimately it's not worth loosing haste over for.Now, if we had a double attack AA skill or a 2hand dmg bonus, maybe a real pet that does same dmg as our dumbfire even the same hps, invis, a real FD that lasts at least 5 mins recast can even be 5 mins too hehe.  Really hoping some of these make the AA cut revamp for us in the expansion and I would be in heaven.<div></div>

[Beldin_]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Harkov wrote:<BR><BR>I'll prolly end up doing 4 5 8 sta when I hit 50 (god i'm a slack [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> ) as i'm really digging the hammer stun for getting off tap viens.  <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>If you don't have the last point in str that increases casting skills by 10% you need 6 points in hammer ground to stun long enough for tap veines. </DIV>