For the love of god give us something usefull

[Pitt Hammerfi]

We really need something to bring to raids, something that no other class has, thats needed in a raid.At the moment SOE you have given Shadowknghts nothing, i repeat nothing of any value at all to bring to a raid.Please tell us what we have thats our defining skill, tell us what we are supposed to bring?Maybe if you gave us the ability to rez the tank or a group manasieve, or anything remotely usefull, we would actually be needed on raids.I really hope you give us something when the new diety skills come in EOF, i really do.I could go on and on examining what we have now, and people will argue we have this and we have that, but in the end it all boils down to the fact that we dont have a whole lot of use on raids while not tanking<p>Message Edited by Pitt Hammerfist on <span class=date_text>07-10-2006</span> <span class=time_text>12:26 PM</span>

[Nicholai24]

If Arnold were here, he'd tell you to quit whining.<div></div>

[Giral]

<P>Umm the Dev's don't know there are Shadowknight's still playing eq2 </P> <P>and they aren't aware that we have a Sk forum :smileyvery-happy:</P> <P>we are working as Intended : ) :smileysurprised:</P> <P>further more they don't care : )  the Dev's are to busy playing WoW </P> <P> </P> <P>if this was a thread about a returning player to Eq2 you might get a dev response , or asking to removing Jumping sounds from the game, or making the game easier and more solo content ,  then you might have a good chance of getting a Dev reply ;  ) </P> <P> </P> <P>Would like a Barbarian Female Squire , as i keep breaking the tiny human biatches in half when i bed them </P> <P> </P> <P>yeah a Raid quality skill would be nice but they handed all 23 out, What 24 classes ? well humm go figure sorry to bad guy's, just  hope to get lucky : ) there are some Swell people playin this game , like a lost dog i'm sure you'll find a home </P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[Xartan]

<P>PItty is actually one of the better SK on najena and has a home in one of the better raiding guilds on the server. Fact is, he still gets asked to sit out on raids periodically to allow more "useful" classes to step in. </P> <P>Honestly, its ridiculous to see posts on the Najena forums from his own guildmates mocking his usefullness on raids when its obvious to me at least that his utility is a large reason they do well when he's around.</P> <P>I don't think we're meant to be raiders as the class exists right now, we have good raid functionality but you never hear anybody ever say "moa raid lfm - need a shadowknight" or for that matter "uberraidguildx is recruiting the following classes: shadowknight".</P> <P>Berserkers have the same problem I'd imagine however people think that they do more DPS than SK (which is not true) so they get the raid invite ahead of us...</P> <P>Face it, on a scale from 1-24 with 24 being the worst, we're #24 in raid leaders opinions.</P> <P>All we're asking for is a skill that sticks out as unique that no other class can do that makes us coveted for raids.</P> <P>group-wide manatap like eq1? Death march for the whole raid? POA raid-wide instead of just groupwide? Mezz, fear, charm undead?</P> <P>Again I'm not saying we're no good - believe me I'm the king of championing the sk are awesome cause.. but if we could just have one more utility that would make people WANT to bring us along for a raid...I'd be happy.</P> <P>I'm tired of just filling a slot when other "useful" classes aren't around. Or lounging about in Group 4 with the kids who wear mittens all year round!</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P> </P><p>Message Edited by Xartan on <span class=date_text>07-09-2006</span> <span class=time_text>06:32 AM</span>

[Kelkirra]

ummmmmmm, more usefulness in raids? We don't have jack? Don't see ppl ask for a SK for a MoA raid? O.o Ok. Tell you what, I'll let the children argue that we don't have any true usefullness in raids and that we can't perform our primary function as TANK while the adults, including myself, will continue to do what we do best and prove the rest of you wrong. While you children are going to be complaining here that we don't have usefullness, this adult will be tanking a MoA raid once again. =D Enjoy the flame. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Pitt Hammerfi]

lol MoA :/ our wizard could tank that<p>Message Edited by Pitt Hammerfist on <span class=date_text>07-09-2006</span> <span class=time_text>06:51 PM</span>

[Xartan]

<DIV>You're preaching to the choir Naldir... I'm just saying that for the people who organize our raids and guilds, it'd be nice to have something that jumps out at them. </DIV> <DIV>Hey, when I go on a raid I stand out, I make a good name for Shadowknights and I know a few others do too.. but the majority of us get passed over for what other people feel more useful classes are...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So all Pitty is saying is to give us a CLEAR raid utility.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Nowhere in this post has anybody said we don't rule <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><p>Message Edited by Xartan on <span class=date_text>07-09-2006</span> <span class=time_text>06:54 PM</span>

[Pitt Hammerfi]

being asked to sit from raids isnt what worries me, due to allures size it is only fair we all take turns, and trust me i raid almost 5 days a week.hehe but you summed it up xartan, yes a clear cut raid skill is what we need

[Kelkirra]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Xartan wrote:<BR> <DIV>You're preaching to the choir Naldir... I'm just saying that for the people who organize our raids and guilds, it'd be nice to have something that jumps out at them. </DIV> <DIV>Hey, when I go on a raid I stand out, I make a good name for Shadowknights and I know a few others do too.. but the majority of us get passed over for what other people feel more useful classes are...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So all Pitty is saying is to give us a CLEAR raid utility.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Nowhere in this post has anybody said we don't rule <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <P>Message Edited by Xartan on <SPAN class=date_text>07-09-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>06:54 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>We do have a clear purpose my friend. Tanking, it is our designed purpose as is it the designed purpose of ALL tanking classes. Most ppl are blind and do not see us as useful for raids.  The "Guardian is the only raid tank" theory is complete nonsense imho. I have went on raids and performed every desinged purpose that we have: utility, DPS, MA, OT and MT and have impressed many ppl and gave us a good name (I would like to think anyways). I personally don't believe that we need any CLEAR raid utility as you put it, I believe that the community needs to open their eyes and see our purpose and take into consideration the player behind the character instead of the myths that they live with. Can we tank all content? Yes, if they have removed the immunity of Tartinix (sry if it's spelled wrong =/ it's late). Do we have good utility? Yes. Can we push out some sick DPS for a plate class? Hell yes. Can we OT/MA, play the buff bot for MIT with our STR/STA and group procing buffs along with saving the overzelous wizzy when he/she gets out of control? Yes to all.</P> <P>Our problem is not a design flaw with the class, it's a shattered viewpoint  that too many ppl share about our class thanks to ignorance of the game mechanics and a few bad apples that put horrid tastes in ppls mouths about our class. I commend that has out performed me in any area, as learning the capabilities of this class is difficult to master. Not flaming, but I honestly saw this as a flaming post like the numerous others that I have seen -_-. My appologies on that. But, if your raid leader/guild leader doesn't see a usefulness in you because you play a SK, then show him/her the dark side and how alluring it's power is!! O_O</P>

[Xanoth]

<blockquote><hr>Sarasoon wrote:<BR><P>Our problem is not a design flaw with the class, it's a shattered viewpoint</P><hr></blockquote>going to have to disagree, i think it is a design flaw. but its not a SK issue, its a tank issue.raids only need 1 tank, life is easier if you have a second, but the majority of the game can be killed with only 1 tank on a raid. the problem is that tanks in general dont have a lot to do while not tanking. utility only goes so far, especially in a good raid that knows what they are doing, [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] isn't going to hit the fan and utility doesn't get used.intercede might have been fixed, but your not going to do much with it other than keep someone alive for one more hit.guardians probably have it a lot worse than we do for this though."Yes, if they have removed the immunity of Tartinix"they have, pestilent touch gets his attention quite nicely.it probably would be a lot for one archtype to have... being able to tank, dps and have great utility, so it might not be balanced to give us more. but it would be nice if the game was designed in such a way that multiple tanks could be used or even needed to tank the same mob at the same time, and not just to deal with a memwipe.i'd jsut like to see a balanced raid not be a joke term if it was refering to a raid with 6 fighters in it.but in general the better the raid and better the gear they have, the less tanks are needed.

[Ultimatum]

<div></div>I'm sorry...I just had to pipe in that threads like this are a blatent slap in the face to the SK class.  To play off your thread title "For the love of god, learn to play your class" We offer plenty in a raid situation, from Buffing the MT, warding, group lifetap procs, AAs that increase casting skills for mage classes, not to mention we (we meaning the SKs who know how to do more than just click buttons) Can tank almost any raid content, as well as output a very respectable amount of DPS.  Considering almost any other class would have to give up a bit in one area to be better in another, we do all of this without giving up anything.  While we may not be able to provide one huge defining "usefull" skill in a raid setting, we provide many slightly smaller things that add up to more than what we would add if we only added one or 2 difinitive things.  If your raid leader can't accept and appreciate that I feel sorry for him.  Sorry, I'm just tired of all these "the SK class sucks" whiny threads.  /end rant<div></div><p>Message Edited by Razerblaze on <span class=date_text>07-10-2006</span> <span class=time_text>06:50 AM</span>

[Kelkirra]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Xanoth wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Sarasoon wrote:<BR><BR><BR> <P>Our problem is not a design flaw with the class, it's a shattered viewpoint</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR><BR>going to have to disagree, i think it is a design flaw. but its not a SK issue, its a tank issue.<BR><BR>raids only need 1 tank, life is easier if you have a second, but the majority of the game can be killed with only 1 tank on a raid. the problem is that tanks in general dont have a lot to do while not tanking. utility only goes so far, especially in a good raid that knows what they are doing, [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] isn't going to hit the fan and utility doesn't get used.<BR><BR>intercede might have been fixed, but your not going to do much with it other than keep someone alive for one more hit.<BR><BR>guardians probably have it a lot worse than we do for this though.<BR><BR>"Yes, if they have removed the immunity of Tartinix"<BR><BR>they have, pestilent touch gets his attention quite nicely.<BR><BR><BR>it probably would be a lot for one archtype to have... being able to tank, dps and have great utility, so it might not be balanced to give us more. but it would be nice if the game was designed in such a way that multiple tanks could be used or even needed to tank the same mob at the same time, and not just to deal with a memwipe.<BR><BR>i'd jsut like to see a balanced raid not be a joke term if it was refering to a raid with 6 fighters in it.<BR><BR>but in general the better the raid and better the gear they have, the less tanks are needed.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>And I will have to disagree with you on this. I have seen perfect raid set-ups like you speak of and I have seen the more unconviential raid set-ups and both seem to work if the people know how to play their classes. I agree that taking 8 tanks on a raid is unefficient for most mobs, but I have been an extra tank on a raid that was a bit tank heavy playing a DPS/utility role and the only problem that we had was the positioning and pathing of the mob, not the raid set-up. Personally, I like to see a few extra fighters in a raid, one as an OT and an extra fighter or 3 for the intercede, utility and DPS roles. Maybe you raid with the best and look down upon my viewpoint, but even my viewpoint is shared with some of the "high end" raiders. I have seen many threads talking about our complete uselessness in a raid situation. I have seen threads talking about how  we can't tank, can't DPS, have no utility and no real purpose for existing in the game and I would like to think that I have proved many people wrong, including myself at one point, and shown them the power of our class.</P> <P>The crusader class is a well rounded class that brings a lot to a raid and if you want to see a "defined" purpose, look at the primary function of our class, TANK. We call baddies bad names and get punched in the face so that others don't have to <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />. It's what we do. /shrug Sry man, but I do see a defined purpose in having a SK on a raid, and it's not just because I play one.<BR></P>

[Pitt Hammerfi]

we'll see when EoF comes out, i bet our new skills will be geared towards groups and raids <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />we certainly have our solo skills down pat

[Kharz]

<P>People keep talking about warriors. What the heck is a warrior? They those things that can't keep multi encouter aggro and die horribly from any mistake due to no FD or evac? Would hate to be one of those... <shivers></P> <P>Seriously though SKs are awesome and if people talk about having more then one of a certain type of tank in a raid. Well at least on my server, SKs are welcome. Couldn't imagine being a Guardian since once you have one...well what does another offer? At least with 2 Sks you get good DPS, added MT armor from our spell line and another FD/Evac if needed. I keep hearing how our FD is iffy because people dont stand back up etc. What kind of dolts are you folks playing with? Everyone in my guild knows how FD works. All of our ally guilds know how it works. In the rare case of PuGs, I just let the group know how to stand up and why I would be using it. (I have a macro for it in fact.)</P> <P>Either way enjoy your SK and see what EoF has to offer. I for one cannot wait to see what Cazic has to offer. Along with any added fun they give to us through class based AA skills.</P>

[Xanoth]

<blockquote><hr>Sarasoon wrote:<div></div>Personally, I like to see a few extra fighters in a raid, one as an OT and an extra fighter or 3 for the intercede, utility and DPS roles. Maybe you raid with the best and look down upon my viewpoint, but even my viewpoint is shared with some of the "high end" raiders. I have seen many threads talking about our complete uselessness in a raid situation. I have seen threads talking about how  we can't tank, can't DPS, have no utility and no real purpose for existing in the game and I would like to think that I have proved many people wrong, including myself at one point, and shown them the power of our class.<hr></blockquote>Me too, its good having them there, but i guess my view point of the game is jaded due to changing from an illusionist. a class that msot people do want around, but the going joke at the time was that chanters only had to pay attention to raids after a wipe buff up and set to auto follow again.im pretty happy with my SK (im never really happy with anything, im just cynical) and i know wanting more raid utility is asking for the moon on a stick, but it would still be nice <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />would be nice to see more tank buff utility though, tanks helping other tanks... tank <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Giral]

<P>what i think </P> <P>i think some SK's are Very afraid the Dev's are going to Screw up SK's BIG time , If they touch us at all,   i Share this worry </P> <P>Sk's are a undesirable class , becuase of no great defining skill/buff/debuff/ etc,,,, or becuase of the player bias, or becuase of Min/Maxxer's ,   most would say it is the First one, no defined feature, and i also would disagree with this view  , and look to the Second and third , Other player's and Min/Maxer's </P> <P> </P> <P>i don't need a defining feature : O) , but then again i am in a Guild and i Do raid so i myself am Biased becuase i am Where other Sk's might never be , </P> <P> </P> <P>and this is where the problem comes in , congratulation's to Those couple of SK's that Raid ,     BUT HOW THE HELL IS THIS HELPING ALL THE OTHER SK"S ??????????????????????????   We can Scream and Yell about How Uber the SK class is on the SK forum till we're  blue in the Balls , OK so now what about the other 200 to 400 K poeple playing EQ2 ????????   seriously Just becuase a couple of us get to Raid and even a Rare few get to MT , it does Nothing to get ALL The other SK's even a SPOT in a raid , let alone MA  and dare to DREAM  be the MT    <<<<<  it's very late in the game so with not bringing More to the MT position lets say Almost equal but with a diffrent set up ,  why should anyone suddenly switch to a SK as the MT ??????????????  and why bring a SK to ALL Raid's and not leave them siiting out ????????????? </P> <P> </P> <P>   You know what the truth is ? i said it up top SK's are Very afraid that we are going to become Cookie Cutter , the Dev's instead of Tweaking a couple of VERY Minor Issue's and making 1 Skill a NIce powerfull Obvious Raid ability to give alot more SK's a chance to Even be in any raid's,  The dev's will come in and Totally Re-vamp our class in to a pathetic , push 3 Button Class and THAT is what is going on with SK"S , and that is why you have 1 or 2 people Screamin from the tree's everytime some lower level , or Under geared, or crappy guilded SK say anything negative about SK's is vehemently attacked for it,   the Few that are on TOP of the world right now : ) are Extremely afriad that your going to get them Screwed over and they will wind up Seriously Nerfed beyond belief ( BAck to what we was Prior to LU13 or Worse  ) </P> <P> </P> <P>SO     Sk's can Tank,MA,or Dp's in a Raid, we bring some some Buff's / Debuff's that Stack , and we have some very diversified utility </P> <P>   </P> <P> so The real issue IS  " WHAt can be done to Get MORE SK's into MORE raid's ? " those of use who have proven ourselves and do Raid and are in a nice position ( and have worked for it tooth and nail : ) ,       what about the other (made up % comming : )  90 % ????????   that realy wan't to raid but are Bashin their freakin head into a wall about it ? start a new guild ? yeah try to even find half the classes you need that want to start ALL over again in a New raiding guild JUST to let YOU be the raid MT <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> good luck </P> <P> </P> <P>so Yeah Asking for 1 Raid defining abilitiy that Doesn't screw with any of our other abilities is a Nice compromise , it gives ALL sk's a chance to be in a raid, it leaves the Sk's that already have a Spot in a raid alone and Add's to their reason for being there , and the Ones that TANK can Keep on Tanking as the ability will also benifit you as a By product of helping out the other 90 % of the sk's that aren't as furtunate or rather aren't as MOUTHY : )      (seem's to me the Sk's that are on top can RUN thier GUM's Myself included of course here is another LOnG winded post by Your's truely : ) </P> <P> </P> <P>Sk's have asked for a couple Minor tweak's and 1 Raid defining feature It's not the end of the world,  i myself don't need Or Wan't one : )</P> <P> </P> <P>  I  would rather get another Utility that is ShadowKnight Defining  : )  rather then Raid defining  : (    as it is proven we can and are usefull in raid's without a Raid defining ability ,   </P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P>One thing i have done is STart talking on Other forum's about SK's  : )  letting everyone Know i can tank </P> <P>here is an example of a serious player problem : </P> <P> </P> <P>Gaurdian MT loses agro group member say's " Oop's sorry that was my fualt i Nuked to early " </P> <P>ShadowKnight as MT loses agro and group says " it's ok your an SK we know you have issue's with agro " </P> <P> </P> <P>i have posted this above statement in Combat forum's , BUT we Sk's need to Branch out on the forum's and IN-game in chat channel and start letting the WHOLE community know SK"S are a TAnk and Hold agro or lose it the Same as ANY other TANK </P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P>BUT what else can we do to get SK's in the LIME light ????????? </P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P>Message Edited by Giralus on <SPAN class=date_text>07-10-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>05:44 PM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by Giralus on <span class=date_text>07-10-2006</span> <span class=time_text>05:45 PM</span>

[Kryptonix]

Yeh I get beef in my guild about being an SK, and SKs are really bad at holding agro. But I have pulled agro from every other tank in the game. I have also tanked in groups because I thought the MT was doing a lousy job. I am really not afraid to say to a level 70 gaurdian or zerker "Hey, you are losing agro a lot. Why dont you let me tank." or "You are pulling to many adds, let me tank before you wipe the group." Every time I have said this to an MT in a group, the group says something along the lines of "Are you sure?" or "But your an Sk, and hes a [insert other tank class here]". I used to think we were the worst tanks in the game, but that was me being an idiot jumping on the band wagon. What people have said about the view of Sks is true. We are severely looked down upon. So what do we do? Prove them wrong. If you KNOW you are a good tank, and you are confident in your ability as a PLAYER, then do not be afraid to say so. Who gives a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] about the warrior over there. Dont sit there and tell people on chat you are a good tank, show them. Group with them. I cannot begin to tell you the compliments I have gotten lately because I chose to step up to the plate when the supposed better tank is lacking in player skill. As for raid MTing, any tank can be a raid MT, you just need the right set up. If you are an MT and you have no hate buffers in your group during a raid.... guess what, I dont care if you are Jesus playing a gaurdian YOU ARE GONNA LOSE AGRO. <div></div>

[Pauleh]

<DIV>Start leading raids and doing the calls then you can be usefull rather than waiting to hop on the end of a raid, apart from that just join a more open minded guild.</DIV>

[Pitt Hammerfi]

<blockquote><hr>Pauleh wrote:<DIV>Start leading raids and doing the calls then you can be usefull rather than waiting to hop on the end of a raid, apart from that just join a more open minded guild.</DIV><hr></blockquote>lol didnt i just say i raid 5 nights a week, and im an officer in Allure ?i MT and MA, i call raids, i have experience in every aspect of everquest, my head is so old, its ancientdoesnt change the fact that we need a raid utility /sighall im asking for is death march to proc raid wide, or manasieve to be a group thing, maybe even pestilence to last for 5 minuteswe will see what EoF brings for us hey..<p>Message Edited by Pitt Hammerfist on <span class=date_text>07-11-2006</span> <span class=time_text>12:50 AM</span>

[plantb]

God I'm so confused. Some of you are posting in here saying we need this and that bla bla, then in other threads you say nah we are all good. Stop battin for two sides and make mind up.Doesnt seem we can agree on anything, no wonder Devs dont look at this forum. I'm out of here!<p>Message Edited by plantboy on <span class=date_text>07-12-2006</span> <span class=time_text>05:44 PM</span>

[Giral]

<DIV>no what we are saying is what we have been saying </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Sk's are a Good, well rounded class </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>we can solo Ok </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>we can Group Tank good </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>and we can fill a raid spot or MT if needed or be very  lucky to have a open minded raid guild that put's an SK up front sometimes or all the time .</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>we have some minor issue's that need to be tweaked </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>and a Raid defining ability or 2 would be nice to help out all the SK's who can't get a Raid spot, who can't get into a raiding Guild , and for those that are in a raiding guild with More then enough classes to raid , a reason to take an SK to every raid </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>so we are asking for what we have been asking for Minor tweak's (there are thread's about them and a few diffrent view's on what neeed's Tweaking     And a Raid defining feature to Allow ALL sk's a Position in a raid , and not just a chosen few of us, and those of us who do aren't asked to Sit out becuase another class Does have a Raid defining feature </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Mythicman]

I just think people need to quit whining about how SKs suck and....<font size="3"><a href="http://learn2play.[Removed for Content]/" target=_blank>http://learn2play.[Removed for Content]/</a>warning....turn your volume down.</font><div></div>

[Giral]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Mythicman wrote:<BR>I just think people need to quit whining about how SKs suck and....<BR><BR><BR><FONT size=3><A href="http://learn2play.[Removed for Content]/" target=_blank>http://learn2play.[Removed for Content]/</A><BR><BR><BR>warning....turn your volume down.<BR></FONT> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>clicked the link and saw a picture of Mythicman's fantasy lover </P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P>FYI , no buddy here is saying SK's SUCK , we have a few minor issues. and a raid issue , if you don't feel like contributing thats fine , perhaps you just have no clue what we are talking about becuase You don't know much about the Sk class ,   </P>

[Trivon]

<DIV>I am in a good guild, and I tank alot in groups. I have proven myself to my guildies time and time again, but no way would they ever let me tank raids.</DIV> <DIV>Even if the mob did nothing but disease damage guess who would tank?</DIV> <DIV>The Guardian or Zerker thats it we are not ever considered.</DIV> <DIV>Aggro is a big issue mainly because of our SMALL power pool.</DIV> <DIV>I can hold aggro on an encounter, but I will be OOP before it dies.</DIV> <DIV>I have seen this happen middle of the raid Tank LDs and no other "Tanks" are on.</DIV> <DIV>Instead of letting the SK or Pally tank the raid is called because no "tanks" were on.</DIV> <DIV>If we are not tanking raids why give us plate armor ?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If I could betray and become a Guardian or Berserker, I would without a second thought.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Is this what the Devs intended for SKs???</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I hear alot of SKs bragging about their great dps.</DIV> <DIV>There is a guardian in my guild who equals my dps everytime <600+ on most encounters>.</DIV> <DIV>My gear is better, and I have nearly full masters. Our AAs look more like an identity crisis then anything else.</DIV> <DIV>The spell crit is the one exception. The next expansion is the deciding factor for SKs as a class.</DIV> <DIV>If we are DPS then give us DPS equal to Berserkers/Bruisers/Monks. </DIV> <DIV>If we are tanks then give us better aggro, and mit/def buffs.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Right now we are neither that is why we are undesired no one knows our place in a raid.</DIV>

[Pitt Hammerfi]

<blockquote><hr>Mythicman wrote:I just think people need to quit whining about how SKs suck and....<font size="3"><a href="http://learn2play.[Removed for Content]/" target=_blank>http://learn2play.[Removed for Content]/</a>warning....turn your volume down.</font><div></div><hr></blockquote>I think you need to learn hush <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><p>Message Edited by Pitt Hammerfist on <span class=date_text>07-18-2006</span> <span class=time_text>07:46 AM</span>

[TheGeneral]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Pitt Hammerfist wrote:<BR> <P>-Removed-</P> <P>Message Edited by Pitt Hammerfist on <SPAN class=date_text>07-16-2006</SPAN><SPAN class=time_text>03:14 PM</SPAN></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Ease up Pitt, your points may be valid but the main issue is that most of the valid points made in this forum are blurred by the people who have nothing better to do but whine because they expect our class to be the best at everything they do.  I follow most of your posts and agree with a lot of what you have to say, but calling the guy out like that because he's not a l33t level 70 doesn't make you look better.  You know as well as I do, that the excessive whiners make the valid points mean less.  Yeesh, its actually made the SK forum nearly useless.</P> <P>Level != wisdom.<BR></P> <P>Message Edited by TheGeneral on <SPAN class=date_text>07-18-2006</SPAN><SPAN class=time_text>11:58 AM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by TheGeneral on <span class=date_text>07-18-2006</span> <span class=time_text>11:58 AM</span>

[Pitt Hammerfi]

Yeah im sorry mate, point taken, ill think ill just edit tht message off.But seriously its always the same old response, your class isnt nerfed, learn to play. hehAs an afterthought, im always in 2 minds about SK's, when i come to these forums and read posts about SK's and how people write us off, it makes me think.But on the other hand i still love playing my SK, i go into Forsaken city and solo all the named, i raid hard and at the end of the day we are a well rounded class, we may not bring the most to a raid, but its not 1 person that makes a raid anyway, its a combination of all 24. No matter how people parse things and "say oh you do average 700 dps, you suck", you really dont get the full picture from a parse, debuffs and heals and wards, and buffs dont get read by a parser, and its the combination of them all that make us a decent class, not to mention we can take a hit or two.I still would like an increase to our raid usefulness when not tanking, but hey i wont be devestated if they dont give us anythingI'm still raiding and soloing and enjoying it, and really looking forward to our new spells when EoF arrives <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><p>Message Edited by Pitt Hammerfist on <span class=date_text>07-18-2006</span> <span class=time_text>07:57 AM</span>