Goading Gesture is better than Insidious Promise Master 1!

[Trivon]

<DIV>Well it has become apparent to an high level SK that aggro is not just an issue, but that it is our biggest downfall.</DIV> <DIV>At lvl 70 Goading Gesture (lvl 20 Splitpaw Adv Pack Taunt scales with level) trumps Insidious Promise. The reason being</DIV> <DIV>it is resisted less, and delivers the full taunt on cast. I know the devs have crunched the numbers done the math etc., but I guarentee</DIV> <DIV>you no EQ2 developer plays a raid level SK. With Nefarious Caress Master 1, Venomous Slam, Master 1, Sacrilege Master 2, and Goading or Insidious Master 1. </DIV> <DIV>It is virtually impossible to hold aggro from Conjuror Pets, high dps scouts, and casters ( this depends on the caster though). Even offensive stance berserkers can grab aggro from a SK like he is not taunting at all. The only fix that will really help us is to increase the threat on our taunts by a lot (atleast 25%), and make Insidious Promise deliver its payload at the beginning.</DIV>

[Ultimatum]

I used to think the same thing, but I have looked at both spells a lot and have to disagree.  First of all, Goading Gesture has a lower direct taunt than Promise outright.  Secondly, it only has a 10% chance to double the hate, and even then it is only negligably higher than Promise.  Thirdly, Promise has a pretty hefty DoT associated with it which, while it may look like a small amount at first, if you parse on raids you will notice that over the course of a night of raiding it adds up very fast, and the hate generated from it is much more reliable than the 10% chance for goading gesture to double its hate.  Finally, being a level 20 spell, I have found Gesture to resist a LOT more than Promise, almost 4 to 1 against yellow con raid mobs.  All in all I don't like Gesture at all and have cleared it from my hotbar months ago.<div></div>

[Mmaster]

1 damage = 1 hate <div></div>

[Beldin_]

Bought the spell with around level 30 .. took a look at it .. and decided that i'm much happier with the DoT on our normal taunt <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Soefje]

Would help a lot if the put them on different timers.  Are other classes Splitpaw spell on the same timer as a regular spell?<div></div>

[Lord Montague]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Soefje wrote:<BR>Would help a lot if the put them on different timers.  Are other classes Splitpaw spell on the same timer as a regular spell?<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Yes...scouts get a snare that's on the same timer as their regular snare/debuff.  Priests get a heal that's on the same timer as one of their direct heals.  And mages get a DD that is also shares a timer with their primary DD spell.  So I guess it all evens out.</P> <P>So it's a substitute, if you feel the one you currently have isn't strong enough.  Personally, I have both but I only use Insidious Promise.  The overall average hate is just better and the power consumption on Insidious Promise is better.</P>

[Beldin_]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Soefje wrote:<BR>Would help a lot if the put them on different timers.  Are other classes Splitpaw spell on the same timer as a regular spell?<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Now they are always on the same time ..  usefull for example was the spell for my conjurer and necro because they don't really have big nukes and the splitpaw spell was better until i think level 55. The taunt also may be better for bruisers, because their single taunt has no extra effects.

[Tasmai]

<DIV>Yea, I used Goading some when it first came out but came to the conclusion that my direct ToT was better. But Goading is a very good taunt for it's level.</DIV>

[Zoradan]

<P>GG can aslo be usfule when the dot portion of our spell is detramental, pulling a mob so it can be mezed parked for example.</P> <P> </P> <P>I've toyed with GG a lot, but still use our bace taunt 99% of the time.</P>

[joeygopher]

I tend to smack GG in my first round of taunts, and use Promise from then onwards.  GG is my security blanket!

[Kelkirra]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Trivonus wrote:<BR> <DIV>Well it has become apparent to an high level SK that aggro is not just an issue, but that it is our biggest downfall.</DIV> <DIV>At lvl 70 Goading Gesture (lvl 20 Splitpaw Adv Pack Taunt scales with level) trumps Insidious Promise. The reason being</DIV> <DIV>it is resisted less, and delivers the full taunt on cast. I know the devs have crunched the numbers done the math etc., but I guarentee</DIV> <DIV>you no EQ2 developer plays a raid level SK. With Nefarious Caress Master 1, Venomous Slam, Master 1, Sacrilege Master 2, and Goading or Insidious Master 1. </DIV> <DIV>It is virtually impossible to hold aggro from Conjuror Pets, high dps scouts, and casters ( this depends on the caster though). Even offensive stance berserkers can grab aggro from a SK like he is not taunting at all. The only fix that will really help us is to increase the threat on our taunts by a lot (atleast 25%), and make Insidious Promise deliver its payload at the beginning.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>I perfer the promise spell personally. I have never had the other but heard that it is good for its lvl. Personally, the only taunting effect that I ever really see resisted is my AE taunt which is at M1 and it is only on specific mobs. Even in regular groups the scouts (outside of brigiands) and conjy's never give me trouble with agro. Now I do have a certian wizzy buddy that loves to pull agro on me, but then again, he does it to everyone -_-.<BR>

[Mistmoore-Milaga]

<div><blockquote><hr>Trivonus wrote:<div>Well it has become apparent to an high level SK that aggro is not just an issue, but that it is our biggest downfall.</div> <div>At lvl 70 Goading Gesture (lvl 20 Splitpaw Adv Pack Taunt scales with level) trumps Insidious Promise. The reason being</div> <div>it is resisted less, and delivers the full taunt on cast. I know the devs have crunched the numbers done the math etc., but <font color="#ff0000">I guarentee</font></div> <div><font color="#ff0000">you no EQ2 developer plays a raid level SK</font>. With Nefarious Caress Master 1, Venomous Slam, Master 1, Sacrilege Master 2, and Goading or Insidious Master 1. </div> <div>It is virtually impossible to hold aggro from Conjuror Pets, high dps scouts, and casters ( this depends on the caster though). Even offensive stance berserkers can grab aggro from a SK like he is not taunting at all. The only fix that will really help us is to increase the threat on our taunts by a lot (atleast 25%), and make Insidious Promise deliver its payload at the beginning.</div><hr></blockquote>I beleive you are wrong there, but that's not my point.Offensive stance fighters pulling aggro from defensive stance tanks doesn't just occur with our class. Turn the tables and you'll pull aggro from that same zerker.  Or another fighter. The reason is that other DPS classes have hate reduction.  Fighters do not when they are just doing DPS, and some can turn out some pretty high DPS numbers.  If I can get away with it I tank w/ offensive stance and a symbol instead of a shield.  No one is pulling aggro from me then.While our flat out taunts might be weaker than our other tank counterparts we make up for it in damage. And when you are in a raid that NEEDs to have hate buffs on the MT because you do (or have to do) so much damage then our discrepancy in hate because insignificant.  Throw a coercer in the MT group and problem solved.</div>

[Beldin_]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Zoradan wrote:<BR> <P>GG can aslo be usfule when the dot portion of our spell is detramental, pulling a mob so it can be mezed parked for example.</P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Wahh .. why didn't you wrote that yesterday .. could have needed that idea for Blackscale Sepulcher .. however since i was low on mana in the end i let our monk did the job <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>But i'll try to keep that in mind for the next time <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR></P>