SK's and PvP

[Pauleh]

<DIV>How do Shadow Knights hold up in PvP, to be honest I havent seen many, ones I have seen were taunting alot but that was about it, can they hold there own or one on one etc?</DIV> <DIV><BR>I've searched a few posts and found nothing so if some one could help me out id be thankfull.</DIV>

[thatguyfubu]

Yes SK can PvP very well.  You just need to know when to use HT.<div></div>

[xsvhrs]

Even when HT is down, I feel like my lvl 22 (with combat adventure shut off) SK holds his own. The ability to wear plate armor gives you the ability to get your mitigation as well your resists up really high. Personally, I also go with a shield for an added 275 mitigation. And the CA and Spells do decent damage for plate wearers, not to mention decent auto attack damage (when they fix the auto attack bug). On the downside, at early levels, there is no snare, root, track, invis/stealth, or see invis/stealth, so it's not a very good choice to solo pvp. At higher levels, you get a snare, a nice little pet, and at lvl 30 you can use totems for invis. <div></div>

[Ramglob]

Would like to get some 60+ PVP'ers to answer this question.  Please respond.  Would love to get your thoughts. <div></div>

[gnarkill]

<div><blockquote><hr>thatguyfubu wrote:Yes SK can PvP very well.  You just need to know when to use HT.<div></div><hr></blockquote>actually grave blessing in pvp is more important then HT imo</div>

[Agamemno]

In group pvp I do o.k. at 52 with marginal gear. I usually tank even if I'm not the only tank in the group as the taunts don't last as long as they do in pve =P. We have some handy abilities in the spell we get from umm bloodlines which is kinda nice, its a beneficial buff remover, and area damage attack thats pretty considerable. Harm touch can turn the tide of an even group v. group battle very very nicely if used correctly (pop it when the healer is below half and watch thier scouts scramble for evac). In the stam line we get a very nice ae stun+knockback+small-damage (if a hammer equipped) that is excellent for punting groups around and confusing the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] out of them.Add to this our AE dots, CAs, and other things and you've got a sound group pvp class.1v1 is a lil tougher, some classes outright [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] me even-con, others get thier [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] beat and just run away =P all depends.If you're solo and jumped by a group, pick the squishiest looking one, beat himsenseless and drop HT before you die lol. Try not to hang out solo too much =)<div></div>

[Agamemno]

<div><blockquote><hr>xsvhrs wrote:Even when HT is down, I feel like my lvl 22 (with combat adventure shut off) SK holds his own. The ability to wear plate armor gives you the ability to get your mitigation as well your resists up really high. Personally, I also go with a shield for an added 275 mitigation. And the CA and Spells do decent damage for plate wearers, not to mention decent auto attack damage (when they fix the auto attack bug). On the downside, at early levels, there is no snare, root, track, invis/stealth, or see invis/stealth, so it's not a very good choice to solo pvp. At higher levels, you get a snare, a nice little pet, and at lvl 30 you can use totems for invis. <div></div><hr></blockquote>Our snare kinda sux, if someone turns to run by the time its done casting they're out of range. Wish it was castable on the run then it would be worth something. With the snare nerf it wouldn't make a lone SK over-powered I don't think. They'd have to remove the lil nuke part of it though.</div>

[Agamemno]

<div><blockquote><hr>ta2demon wrote:<div><blockquote><hr>thatguyfubu wrote:Yes SK can PvP very well.  You just need to know when to use HT.<div></div><hr></blockquote>actually grave blessing in pvp is more important then HT imo</div><hr></blockquote>Awww c'mon I been itching to hear some words of wisdom from you, throw us a bone man!</div>

[Rylight]

<P>honestly, with the new nerf to conjurer's there shouldnt be any class an sk cant take 1 on 1 in pvp (except maybe some of the healers, im at lvl 54 and havent really fought a healer since lvl 30, except for a fury named stubs, and I had HT him when he let his life get to half, otherwise he would have just healed himself and had me at 0 mana)</P> <P>so in short, sk's are fine at pvp grouped or solo if you have the right gear, the right spells, and the right sense to use your ablities when you should ( I killed so many swash bucklers last night one on one yesterday)</P>

[Haavo]

SKs are practically helpless when it comes to a running opponent. Unless if the SKs spells were adjusted so they can be casted while running, then they would be as viable as zerkers. Until then, your best bet is to stick with a zerk.Zerkers get the bow and can chase down opponents, it would make sence that SKs can do the same with their spells.<div></div>

[Ramglob]

<P>SK's own Zerkers in PVP.  Plain and simple.  From a PVP perspective we have more tangibles and can drop a title tag (infamy) very quickly in the right circumstances.  Yes Zerkers have ranged spells which makes them better at stopping runners, but Zerkers can not take down an oppoenent as fast as an SK can.  Evac is huge in saving our arses every 30 minutes.  Our snare is more of a weapon rather than a snare, although it can allow your DPS partners to catch runners which makes a huge difference.  Our AE's are great and Tap Veins is wicked in Group PVP.  There are classes than can give us problems but 1 VS 1 with an even con Zerker.....we own them.  That is my opinion and myself and my lifetaps are sticking to them.</P> <P> </P> <P>And yes Gnarkil is right.  Our best spell is the Blessing line</P>

[Agamemno]

If you want to stop runners duo with a bard, sweet jeezus man. They got some  nasty [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] snares. And yeah, I'm beginning to see the joy in blessing. Early in the fights I'll drop a stun and fire off a blessing, do some other stuff while its firing, both lifetaps, stun, blessmytrollassagain... diggin it. Thats how I went toe to toe with an even con monk today at least. Then I cheated and HT'd the focher cause he's a Q and deserves a slap in the face!<div></div>

[Rylight]

<DIV>also if your lvl 40? and have the snare, I'll give you a little secret to stopping runners, (this mostly seems to apply to scouts), when fighting a melee, if you can, use <U>ALL</U> your dots when he gets to about half life, then cast your pet, then cast your snare nuke right after you cast your pet, by now the melee is at about 1/3 to 1/4 of his life, he is about to try to run, the problem is hes already snared, and your pet is on his trail considering hes at only half his run speed, and even if he manages to snare you before he runs, your dots are taking him out fast, and the few long range nukes you have are enough to take him out even though hes running away from you.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>now mind you the melee may try to evac, so of course thats when HT comes in handy. this little situtation I just gave you doesnt always work, and of course every situaton is different, but it can be quite useful. (also note, using dots that have a long recast time is not a good idea when going up agianst most mages except for illusionist, so I wouldnt do it under normal circumstances)</DIV>

[Ramglob]

It has taken me 61 levels but I really feel that I may be starting to figure out PVP.  I am not saying I am good at it, I am stating that I am becoming educated on what the SK can and can't do which makes me effective.  About 1 month ago I really started to figure out  the use of the blessing line / tap lines / harm touch.  Plain and simple I will not use harm touch unless I am absolutly sure I will drop a title.  I don't care if I die but don't lose infamy.  Now there is a catch there.  For the most part the only things that bring me down is high titled toons.  Therefore If I save HT for them then my title will continue to go up.  My kill to death ratio has gone through the roof from 7-1 to almost 15-1 in literally 1 month.  I am closing in on 2000 kills with only 136 deaths now and I feel that with one or two more kills I will hit master.   I am starting to know my limitations on what I can and can't do in battle.  My partner and I at 61 can take out pretty much any class at 70 (besides the Monk).  Not saying we win every time but we are starting to be very irratating to the higher level classes.  Anyway I am starting to really like the SK in group and duo situations.  Save your HT for big fights.  Choose a guild or partner that PVP's seriously!!!! <div></div>

[Ramglob]

Great post by the way Ryzik.......That information is very educational and I will use that strategy next time I am fighitng someone.  <div></div>

[gnarkill]

<div><blockquote><hr>Rylight wrote:<div></div> <p>honestly, with the new nerf to conjurer's there shouldnt be any class an sk cant take 1 on 1 in pvp (except maybe some of the healers, im at lvl 54 and havent really fought a healer since lvl 30, except for a fury named stubs, and I had HT him when he let his life get to half, otherwise he would have just healed himself and had me at 0 mana)</p> <p>so in short, sk's are fine at pvp grouped or solo if you have the right gear, the right spells, and the right sense to use your ablities when you should ( I killed so many swash bucklers last night one on one yesterday)</p><hr></blockquote>yea i can take anyone 1 on1 except SOME brigands..cant pvp when all they have to do is hit a couple buttons and u cant move the whole fight(they will get nerfed eventually)..i use stun immune potions for them..reflect is a MUST when fighting coercers and conjurers etc..they really do need to lower our casting timers..that is the number 1 thing i want more then anything pvp wise..im telling you though master 1 grave blessing is my life saver..i get so many "Nice healing potions loser" tells when i fight people...I hardly ever use HT cuz im always afraid ill need it lol..but what i do normally to start a fight is pop grave blessing then siphon might then blasphemy then agony then despoil...then unleash the beast!</div>

[Colin MacLaren]

At lower levels SK just own in PvP, sometimes we are able to take out whole groups of blues.At higher levels things get a little bit worse. If you are jumped by two or more opponents you are dead. However, we are probably the strongest class when it comes to defending ourselves against a single ganker. Even without HT up we can take out every other class, with HT yellows are going to die as well. However, we lack the utility of Scouts and thus the ability to pick our fights. We also don't have anything to stop the runners. A Scout will have it much easier to gank and rise in Faction with their city's guards, but we are a deadly foe for everyone that dares to attack us.

[Pauleh]

<DIV>Alright so far all theses posts have been very helpful, I was never sure if SK's were anygood since I saw to few around but I stand corrected.</DIV>

[Agamemno]

I too am a big fan of blessing line, getting my adept3 made for the new on I just hopefully tomorrow. If I have alot of melee on me I'll Hammer Ground first then squeeze off blessing, siphon might, wis debuff, blasphemy, lay on the dots and kick out pet on something squishy. Stun everything in sight and watch the bodies pile up.Sure like having a bard with me though whenever I can. Don't get to group with coercers much and aren't really far enough into my AAs yet to comment. Looking forward to maxing my spell crits though, then I might finish stamina line.<div></div>

[MightyThor]

I'm a level 58 SK on a PvP server and I've been playing since they went live.I really like the SK but then I enjoy the class. I think we're a good balance between PvE and PvP but we aren't gods in either. For PvP, I think we're best described as an "average class with moments of excellence".You aren't going to be taking out groups of blues as an SK nor are you going to be climbing up the ranks by PvPing solo. I've seen a lot of Brigands and Assassins who are simply amazing in PvP and will quite effectively hunt on their own and solo small groups of players, pulling in huge status and infamy. SKs aren't like that but their still good. Also, we aren't the best raid tanks for PvE <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />On the other hand though, SKs are a deadly force. They are solid PvE tanks and will hold their own in PvP. I rarely get between 1-on-1 in PvP and we're fabulous in groups but, as I said, we aren't going to be out there ganking everyone for hours.Overall, good class. I'd recommend going for int and wis as your primary stats to boost dmg and resists.Hope that helps!

[Pauleh]

<DIV>After fighting with a few groups i've worked this out in groups SKs are [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] good, they can tank and do the damage, and solo there still good only problem I've had is healers and rangers, apart from that its all good.</DIV>

[VainShad]

L48 SK.When I get into a 1v1 fight with a yellow, I almost always win, although conjurers are very tough.The main problems I have are that I can't catch runners; I can't really gank people, as they just run.  Similarly, I've had people gank me, realize they were going to lose, and then run for it -- if I don't have HT up at the time, there is really nothing I can do about it.  I also have a hard time finding PvP, as I have no tracking.  99% of the time, PvP finds me, not the other way around.I recently specced into Joust for a little extra burst dps, so we'll see how that goes.

[Diern]

<P>Cant see why you would have a problem with rangers. I agree with the healers tho, they can be a pain as SK.</P> <P>I generally run around in defensive stance. This helps you mitigate the rangers first flurry of attacks. When a ranger jumps me ill do the following</P> <P>1. Cast blessing</P> <P>2. Swing around and target the ranger</P> <P>3. Summon dumbfire pet on it</P> <P>4. Close distance. keep them targeted and infront of you.</P> <P>5. as I draw near Ill go into offensive stance</P> <P>5. Unlesh hell. stun and reapply ward whenever nessesary.</P> <P>6. Once he is getting low, Unload dots, snare and cast pet again.</P> <P>7. If he runs and looks like he will get away Harmtouch (usually not nessesary)</P> <P>dont forget to use your lifetaps wisely and make sure you debuff</P>

[Nicholai24]

One on one versus a healer, I never have much issue in duels with Inquisitors and Defilers and Furies who are far better equipped than myself. The main issue I can think of is how much time it takes to sap them completely of power. The best I can come up with is to conserve power on Defilers, and use heavy weapons to chew them up through their wards.. with Furies and Wardens, you essentially have to pour on melee and spell DPS, summon pets, and lock them down with as many stuns as possible. If they try to go offensive, burn every lifetap you have in the book, and hope you have decent resists. Furies can critical for pretty nasty damage.Inquisitors just [Removed for Content] me off, because they play my game.. Their power-sap procs. <i>WAY </i>too often, and if you don't constantly keep moving, they'll happily drain you in no time. Their stupid reactive Stun / DD also goes off on both our combat arts, and our spells ( Heresy ) which return any sort of beneficial effect to us, so they have a plethora of cheap sources of damage, incredible heals, and not much chance of running themselves out of power. Against Inquisitors, I try to siphon them down to nothing, cycling stuns and Hammer Ground, then switch directly into offensive stance and a two-hander, summon a pet, kill their mitigation with Despoil, and joust them, using spells and a slow melee weapon to avoid their reactive heals in order to force them into burning their big heals.My personal bane is a monk or brigand with 6,000 or more disease mitigation. [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] that.<div></div>

[FinalOrder]

<DIV>Concerning Berserkers and Shadowknights.. as a 41 Berserker, I can tell you we dont have any range utility except bow. But when chasing runner's you usually have 1 shot before they get out of range.. mabye 2 if they cant control their power. (this is of course without mounts) Pretty much up until the 40's, Berserkers arent that good. Shadowknights pretty much own them, especially HT and Evac lineup.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>40's and up is where the Berserkers start to shine. Until then, its a long road to glory <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />. 50's is just great with many kickass spells, so im anxious to see how well they will work against others in PvP (even Shadowknights, although I only see them when im in a small group and they are in a large group or raid <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Fight smarter, not harder. I should apply my own theory sometimes :smileysad<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> But yeah, other than bow, we arent much better at range than you. Plus, Shadowknights have a 20% horse.. berserkers get yelled at for being slow <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[treebouncer]

for healers especially furys and wardens, if i dont have HT up its a very tough fight. scouts are normally a free kill due to the fact that they kill themselves on my ward, conjies and illusionists arent to bad, wizards and warlocks give me trouble if they lock me down with roots and big nukes. other fighters are also an easy kill since we can heal and they cant.

[xenocide85]

<div></div><div></div><div></div>I recently made a SK, stopped exp at 26, and twinked him out; all Master I & II's, and all mastercrafted, HQ, or fabled gear (and sword of thunder) - I don't have PvP gear yet but my faction is getting there.  Over the past three weeks I've been getting a feel for how to PvP with him and this is what I've found (some of it is just reiteration but less talk has been granted to t3/t4 PvP in this thread):[These are all t3 observations] - Some of my observations apply not only to even con players but orange con as well.(1) SK's can't root/snare and so HT is our only counter to a runner EXCEPT ratonga SK's bc their race quest gives them a spider necklace for 48% snare (yeah real fair - i'm a frickin High Elf).  I have a Nightmare so some, not so bright players, will sprint from me before engaging in combat in which case I can run them out of mana and usually finish them off, sprinting if I have to.(2) SK's can beat any even con player, twinked, with the except of some casters and healers.  If the caster is good or lucky, he can keep you rooted and your HT won't be strong enough to take him down alone.  Your FD, if successful, might give you a chance to win.  Healers, that are twinked and good, are almost impossible to kill, especially if they out of combat heal themselves.  Only three things I can think of to tip the scales 1v1.  HT (wait for low HP and debuff them first), Hand of Malice -> charm a < lvl 35 undead for 2-10 min, or knock them off something high w/ shield bash or kick.(3) Thus far I've been able to do the following:-Kill a blue con monk w/ two lvl 20+++'s on me and finish the encounter-Knock a lvl 42 plate tank off a griffon tower for 2,200 damage-Kill an entire group of greens (lvl 19) with a 26 monk attacking me ( I suspect all non-twinked)-Kill an entire group of blues fighting 1 or 2 lvl 20+++ (they were all btw 23-25)-Land HT on a 36 Warrior for 1,532 on a non-critical hit (lol plz explain that to me, PvP range says 1480 is my max haha)-Land HT on  a lvl 24 caster for 1,623 - again lol (my highest HT lands are on my eq2 character gallery -- Catastrophe)-Debuff and 1 shot a blue con Destroyer ranger solo chasing me from a gank raid-Die to a 34 monk Destroyer after putting his HP in the red and HT was down-Kill lvl 30-32 rangers, twinked and titled the like w/o using HT-barely solo a lvl 26+++ (even con) w/o using tainted sacrament or HT or Charming a petOverall, I think SK's are very good, but also very beatable (at lvl 26ish) if your opponents know your weakness.  Your ward is your saving grace; casters and healers are that much harder b/c 70% of your life tapping doesn't usually apply to them.  They just root you and I believe for the ward to proc heal/damage, it must be a melee hit.  For general tips: go for healers and casters first, always have your ward up, get close to rangers, if fighting a group, use HT to take healer or caster down first, if solo, save HT for bad situations or runners (lol those [Removed for Content]), debuff and cast pets first, use a 1h and a shield if your twinked...  PvP, fabled, or mastercrafted shield and, for example, sword of thudner, is a better combo than the Tainted Reaper or SBH. (better avoidance, resists, and stats) - Also if you're really good, you can switch btw Off and Def stances mid combat. Say you suspect an incoming huge nuke, go Def and inc your res. takes ab 1.0-1.5 seconds to switch, if that.  Also, if you burn all your attacks in offensive stance, you can switch to Def and wati 10-20 seconds while recasting ward.Let me know what you think, comments criticisms...As far as PvP goes near my level, I'd say the ideal levels to stop experience would be: 22,26,27,33,34.  At 22 you can deck out in Mastercrafted gear and your PvP range would give you a huge advantage on ppl your lvl b/c HT can hit (master'd and in offensive stance so max int) for anywhere between 50-100% of ANYONE's HP.  26 you get your uber ward, 27 you can get the uber pvp shield, 33 and 34 give you T4 gear and master II pick.  Most stopped exp twink alts ive seen w/ best titles have been 32-34.-----Catastrophe { 26 High Elf Shadowknight Nagafen }<div></div><p>Message Edited by xenocide85 on <span class="date_text">07-20-2006</span> <span class="time_text">09:01 PM</span></p><p>Message Edited by xenocide85 on <span class="date_text">07-20-2006</span> <span class="time_text">09:05 PM</span></p><p>Message Edited by xenocide85 on <span class=date_text>07-20-2006</span> <span class=time_text>09:06 PM</span>

[tooloose]

<P>PvP is about the only thing SKs really do own at. Shadowy elusion and harm touch kind of guarantee you will live unless your really stubborn and refuse to leave a bad situation. </P>

[Agamemno]

<div><blockquote><hr>tooloose wrote:<div></div> <p>PvP is about the only thing SKs really do own at. Shadowy elusion and harm touch kind of guarantee you will live unless your really stubborn and refuse to leave a bad situation. </p><hr></blockquote>You have a pretty dim view of our capabilities....If you're depending on HT and evac as an SK you pretty much have 0 clue how to play IMHO. HT is for stopping rangers from getting away (or other runners) and evac is for when you get zerged by 5 or more people.Otherwise fight like a crusader and stomp everything in your path, roll with a couple friends ffs. Solo pvp is for dumb-dumbs (or scouts since they have all the tools for that =P)</div>

[Ramglob]

<div></div><div></div>Harm Touch is for dropping infamy quickly so that they do not have time to evac.  I will absolutly not use my HT anymore on non infamy opponents.  If your HT is up for all infamy fights you should do well on the leaderboards.  IMHO.PS.....The first Master Plate Tank on any PVP server was an SK <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Nagafen Master Squiggy SK"The Kelly Gang"<p>Message Edited by Ramglobal on <span class=date_text>07-28-2006</span> <span class=time_text>01:29 PM</span>

[Agamemno]

Evaccers always get to eat an HT =P<div></div>

[Norrsken]

HT is good for 3 things, runners, evacers and bell nuts. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> The rest is lifetaps. I am always awestruck at the lack of knowledge about what makes the sk so nasty. Just go check the PvP forums. You'll find a few threads about HT and its overpoweredness. Not a single thread about our lifetaps. My brig buddy and me went into the arena,and quite frankly, he couldnt kill me. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Didnt even have to look at HT there. Though, thats PvE rules... I can pretty much kill a ranger using only lifetaps (If he doesnt evac). I've done it twice. Rangers are freebies! Pretty much only thing I've gotten into trouble with so far is furies and wardens. And the brawlers. <div></div>

[Zanix]

<DIV><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </DIV><p>Message Edited by Zanix on <span class=date_text>08-14-2006</span> <span class=time_text>02:42 PM</span>

[Tarkin-Wretch]

what resists do you sk's use?  ive alwasy tried for heat and cold.  is poison or magic better?  does anyone use the new resist jewelry?

[MightyThor]

<blockquote><hr>Tarkin-Wretched wrote:what resists do you sk's use?  ive alwasy tried for heat and cold.  is poison or magic better?  does anyone use the new resist jewelry?<hr></blockquote>Heat, cold and posion are the most important IMO because that's what wizards/warlocks/rangers/swashies use.Resist jewellery isn't a bad idea if you're very low on one particular area but I've found that usually you get enough from normal gear and your naturally high wis.Once you get into T7, resists are a joke. My SK has between 50-80% on ALL resists in def mode solo.

[ZG77_Schnell]

The one common theme I ran across in all the replies is the SK has to be tweaked out to the max in order to survive in pvp...thats solo only.  I feel there is a nagging question rolling around in my head that this sounds wrong.  I have good armor,  most legendary, not master crafted, and all my spells are either adept 1's with a few masteres sprinkled in and still cannot hold my own in a 2 vs 1 fight with 2 green cons.  However I have 2 scout classes, non-tweaked and can consistly go on killing sprees.  SK's DOT are fine, but when your getting nuked for 250 and 300 pts of damage every 5 secs, and yours is doing 65 pts per second, I quickly become a pile of goo.  In groups, I have no problems with surviving, but this class is definatly not a solo class, unless you have all the best gear and all adept 3's or masters.

[MightyThor]

<blockquote><hr>ZG77_Schnell wrote:The one common theme I ran across in all the replies is the SK has tobe tweaked out to the max in order to survive in pvp...thats soloonly.  I feel there is a nagging question rolling around in myhead that this sounds wrong.  I have good armor,  mostlegendary, not master crafted, and all my spells are either adept 1'swith a few masteres sprinkled in and still cannot hold my own in a 2 vs1 fight with 2 green cons.  However I have 2 scout classes,non-tweaked and can consistly go on killing sprees.  SK's DOT arefine, but when your getting nuked for 250 and 300 pts of damage every 5secs, and yours is doing 65 pts per second, I quickly become a pile ofgoo.  In groups, I have no problems with surviving, but this classis definatly not a solo class, unless you have all the best gear andall adept 3's or masters.<hr></blockquote>What level are you?First up, I would never even contemplate a 1 vs 2 fight unless I had HT up. SKs are not god-like PvP classes lke Brigands who can take down groups of opponents. The primary reason for this is because of our lesser-than-scout DPS and the fact that we cannot snare properly, sneak, track and, most importantly, because we require time to cast spells. Several opponents will just result in stun lock and a quick death.SKs are good 1 vs 1 and excellent in groups but we are not a killer class.I'm level 69 and I've been playing PvP since the first day the servers came up. I've seen a lot of SKs come and go. Most people roll SKs thinking they will be uber gankers like Brigands but then are very upset when the reality hits home. Sure, HT is an amazing fight winner but it won't help you churn through infamy.You also need to bear in mind that now everyone at lower levels is twinked up to their eyeballs. Scouts will be running around with full Master 1s, excellent gear, and very very deadly poison. It's almost impossible to counter that.

[xenocide85]

<div></div>Well I think there are some key things that are being overlooked here.  For any class in PvP, their power is going to be relative to their level due to: (1) the gear available at that level, (2) their skills and abiliteis at the level, (3) and the skills and abilities (and gear) available to the opposing classes. My SK was stopped at 26/27 for a long time and I was a complete power house.  But now i've started to move towards lvl 30 using collections, HQs, L&L, and discoveries to level (no adventure exp for me, i want AA!).  But I can say that for being fully twinked out, as in all Master skills and master crafted and better gear (pvp and fabled for at least 50% of my slots) that I am significantly weaker, relative to my level, at 30 than I was at 27.  The only strengths i've gained are my core stat increases, defense, parry, slashing, etc.  What i'm trying to say is that its all relative.  I'm hoping my SK will be really strong at lvl 35 bc of t4 gear, doom judement (adept III), and Maleific Touch (Master II).  However, lvl 27 was extremely powerful for me b/c i just got Infernal Pact (Master I) and the pvp shield which is completely sick for its level.  But now, at 30, my ability to life tap hasn't really increased much.  my ward is just as good but now i'm fighitng higher lvl ppl and so relatively, i've gotten weaker.  plus, i'm still using mostly the same gear (at 32 ill get new mastercrafted etc).  I think this is true for every class.  I've only played a wizard, but as far as they go, they strong at 24 w/ Ball of Fire (Master II), but then they are complete [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] in pvp until they get ice comet at 52 (or whatever level it is).  So anyways, you could prolly plot each classes ability to pvp and it would spike up and down depending what lvl you're in (and obviously what gear you have but i'm assuming ppl who are serious will be twinked). But similarly, your ability to PvP (and I guess whether you're "godly" or not) is relative in much the same way.  At 27, I could kill almost any orange con if HT was up, except for decent pally's and healers.  Many times, I took on multiple opponents, though they werent twinked.  I once killed an entire group of 19-23's and a 26 monk (even con) at the same time. <div></div><p>Message Edited by xenocide85 on <span class=date_text>08-10-2006</span> <span class=time_text>08:06 AM</span>

[ZG77_Schnell]

In my haste of typing, I applogize for not stating I am lvl 37 SK.   Most of my thoughts, as you said, are based upon what my image of a SK is and what SOE thinks a SK is, which the fault lies with me, which is a very difficult hurdle to over come.  Through reading fantasy books, movies and etc. through my childhood, I have formed an image of very powerful black knight, taking on the world with one hand and drinking ale in the other.  I little off topic here now, I do find it extremly difficult find our now required rare to upgrade any of fighter/scout skills.  I would say 80% of my time is harvesting, and have loads of jasper, pall, opals, and etc.  In all my harvesting, I found 1 malleable loam, just one!  I find that a bit inbalanced since now mages and the like can use jasper to upgrade which I have found much easier to find than any of the loams. Oh well, I will keep plugging away at the SK, since this is the first character I had that can where cool armor  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <div></div>

[Norrsken]

<blockquote><hr>MightyThor wrote:<blockquote><hr>ZG77_Schnell wrote:The one common theme I ran across in all the replies is the SK has tobe tweaked out to the max in order to survive in pvp...thats soloonly.  I feel there is a nagging question rolling around in myhead that this sounds wrong.  I have good armor,  mostlegendary, not master crafted, and all my spells are either adept 1'swith a few masteres sprinkled in and still cannot hold my own in a 2 vs1 fight with 2 green cons.  However I have 2 scout classes,non-tweaked and can consistly go on killing sprees.  SK's DOT arefine, but when your getting nuked for 250 and 300 pts of damage every 5secs, and yours is doing 65 pts per second, I quickly become a pile ofgoo.  In groups, I have no problems with surviving, but this classis definatly not a solo class, unless you have all the best gear andall adept 3's or masters.<hr></blockquote>What level are you?First up, I would never even contemplate a 1 vs 2 fight unless I had HT up. SKs are not god-like PvP classes lke Brigands who can take down groups of opponents. The primary reason for this is because of our lesser-than-scout DPS and the fact that we cannot snare properly, sneak, track and, most importantly, because we require time to cast spells. Several opponents will just result in stun lock and a quick death.SKs are good 1 vs 1 and excellent in groups but we are not a killer class.I'm level 69 and I've been playing PvP since the first day the servers came up. I've seen a lot of SKs come and go. Most people roll SKs thinking they will be uber gankers like Brigands but then are very upset when the reality hits home. Sure, HT is an amazing fight winner but it won't help you churn through infamy.You also need to bear in mind that now everyone at lower levels is twinked up to their eyeballs. Scouts will be running around with full Master 1s, excellent gear, and very very deadly poison. It's almost impossible to counter that.<hr></blockquote>Today back I took down an increasing group several times. It started off with a solo green pally that jumped me, so I killed him. He came back shortly thereafter with a monk buddy. They both died. And lo and behold, back they come again, with a healer in tow. The healer is bluecon. the monk and pally runs past me to hide behind the guards by NQ gate (That con gray to me, but anyways) so I get some private time with that healer of theirs, and kill it rather fast before the two ghoons return. The green dudes died again. And the last time I saw them at all was when I were going after a white ranger that tried to popshot me duringt he last fight, they come after me yet again,t his time with a gray (!) illu that is tryoing to lock me down. I run the ranger back into NQ, turn around and go after that stupid illu, wipes the floor with him while the 3 others are having at me. Now Im running out of power because of the bind rush and sks being utter powerwh... yeah.. you all know about that I guess. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> So I hit evac. No point in staying there anymore. Yeah, I realize that group did some really stupid things in that fight, still. I stood up to a group. And the generic ranger trying to get some free status and infamy from me. Hehe. So, sks CAN hold their own pretty well in group situations. And guess what? My HT line were down from stopping a cocky yellow swashy from evacing when the fight went awry on him. And my gear isnt all that great. I think I had 2 mastercrafted pieces, helmet and armpads. other than that I had 3 grayed out armorpieces, and my jewelry sucks. and the rest of my gear is prolly treasured. I am leveling up my armorer so thats why Im in such a sad gear state. And my buddy is getting his jeweler up. I am so gonna love having full mastercrafted. SKs are powerhorses in pvp. Just dont go blind staring at our one hard hitting nuke. Its not that great. And our evac is easily interrupted, so dont rely on it getting your butt out of trouble either. <div></div>

[Raaziell]

I have a suicidal playstyle, if I die i have to take more then one with me, there are few secrets, but the most esencial upgrade in pvp is the ward, a master ward will save your life, I fought a 32 zerker, myself being 26, and I won, he got me to 60%-65%, then , immediatly another 31 arrived, troub, I think, I got that one too, funny that my HT was down, best thing about being a shadowknight is that you can save mana while your opponent spends his getting damaged at the same time, and yourself healed, that does not go for casters. Also upgrade your strenght debuff, everyone will love you, use it on caster classes, especially conjurers that run around while their pet damages you, the feeble caster strenght will be dramaticly reduced thus their movement speed will decrease as well. Also keep a shield and a sword with you, but a 2- as well.

[G1Joe]

<DIV>Affording and getting the right Masters however is not that easy particularly on Nag so you guys experience was totally not mine and im guessing not other peoples too.</DIV>

[MightyThor]

<blockquote><hr>G1Joe wrote:<DIV>Affording and getting the right Masters however is not that easy particularly on Nag so you guys experience was totally not mine and im guessing not other peoples too.</DIV><hr></blockquote>My character has never had an abundance of Master 1s (in fact, he's barely ever had any) and I played from 1-70 like a 'normal' player with average gear and mainly adept 1 spells.Master 1s and excellent gear will improve any class but the comments I've made about my experiences have not been determined by this.

[G1Joe]

<DIV>Well im talking about I killed an entire group of this and that or I solo even con ^^^ heroics if you dont have key masters you will not do those things period</DIV>

[Tarkin-Wretch]

im going to have to agree with g1joe on this one, especially as you get higher and moreso if there is a healer involved.