Betrayal should allow SKs to reselect any other fighter class

[Ixnay]

<DIV>I made my SK as my first EQ2 character.  He was my main until DoF.  After leveling up in DoF and beginning to raid, it became abundantly clear that my SK was, quite literally, a waste of a raid slot in a leading raid guild, especially with another crusader at the same raid.  So having another crusader in my guild and wanting to raid everyday, I rerolled as a Defiler.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I've enjoyed playing my Defiler very much, but I've always felt a lingering sadness about the SK class, and my Gnome SK in particular.  I read the other fighter boards sometimes and see much wailing and gnashing of teeth regarding claims that these other classes have been nerfed, are underpowered in a particular way, or lack some ability that allows them to compete effectively with another fighter class.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And when I read those threads, the first thing that pops into my mind is "wow, if you really want to experience a feeling of total and complete worthlessness in EQ, try getting into a high end raid guild, or playing in a high end raid guild, as a SK.  Then you'll truly know how it really feels to be unwanted in this game."</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Especially, Guardians complaining that Berzerkers are overpowered.  Even if that's true, I can't put into words how nice it feels to play a class that's considered best at *something* in this game.  Guardians have the uncontested monopoly as the MT KINGS for epic X4 raid mobs.  There can be no doubt it is just easier to kill a X4 epic raid mob with a Guardian tanking, if only because they will need less healing than any other tank class.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But after playing this game since Nov. 2004, and almost continuously in top raiding guilds the whole time, I'm convinced that SKs get the worst deal of all fighter classes in EQ2, and not just by a little, but by a lot.  SKs ARE THE BEST AT NOTHING, and the worst at everything.  We are not the best tanks, and in fact our agro sucks compared to Berzerker agro in every situation.  We cannot tank any epic x4 encounter anywhere near as effectively as a Guardian.  We have no utility skills even approaching what brawlers have.  Good lord, our FD still only lasts 20 seconds.  Our only utility claim to fame is group evac, but big deal, every scout class has that also.  And we can't even invis.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And by far, SKs are the worst DPS of any fighter class in a raid situation, with the minor possible exception of massive multi-mob encounters, like the failed raider encounters in PPtR, and even then any reasonably skilled Berzerker can out dps us.  Anyone in a leading raid guild will tell you that other fighter class can generally make the top 6 parse on any epic x4 raid encounter except for crusaders.  Our blocking ability is shared by the other fighter classes, and most guilds like mine now consider it not the best practice to use a fighter in the MT group for blocking purposes anyway, that you get more bang for your buck using two hate buffers or another situational MT group set up.  So our single biggest value at a raid is debuffing mob mitigation, but what we can do in that regard pales in comparison to what Brigands can do, and with the combined mit debuff effect that other classes can do, including with the mit debuff on +STA hex dolls.  So, even one SK in a T7 raid is pretty much a waste of a raid slot, especially if there is another crusader in the guild - I'm not sure anyone knowledgeable would disagree that 2 crusaders in the same raid would equal at least one wasted raid slot.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I've held back and have never previously complained about this issue as I've done above.  But today, I'm making this post and asking EVERYONE who plays a high end SK to just try one thing.  Go to the Test Server, and follow the instructions for getting into the open beta for the new adventure pack.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And when you create your new level 1 character on Test, don't make a SK.  Roll a Berzerker or a Bruiser instead.  And after you roll that new level 1 toon, zone into the AP beta from the bell at the end of the dock on Noob Island, and beta buff that toon to 70.  Then tell me if you don't agree that your beta buffed Berzerker or Bruiser COMPLETELY blows away your SK in every way, including damage, tanking ability, and utility features.  And especially, for those with SKs presently in near full fabled, with almost all Master 1s, tell me if you don't agree that your Berzerker or Bruiser beta buff toon is VASTLY superior to your SK live toon in every way, despite the fact that your beta toon only has Adept 3s and handcrafted gear.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I think you will agree there is NO COMPARISON between the sheer destructive power and total ownage you will experience and feel on either of these other classes compared to your SK.  And more importantly, you will immediately feel and understand a sense of purpose that you may not have felt before, if you've only ever played a SK in this game.  You have nothing to lose by trying this, and I believe it will open your eyes.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>LU24 brings many changes, and one of the most significant is the ability to betray to the other city or to the opposing subclass.  Guardians can betray to Berzerkers and vice versa.  Brawlers can betray to monks, and vice versa.  But honestly, is there even one SK among us who wants to betray to become a Paladin?  I certainly don't, and for two reasons.  First, I'm evil dammit, I could NEVER be a Paladin.  Second, I don't think I'd be any better off betraying from SK to Paladin anyway, and in fact I'd be much worse off after having all my spells reset from Master 1 to App 1.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>No, I don't want to betray and become a Paladin on my SK.  I WANT TO BE A BERZERKER OR BRUISER.  There is no good reason not to extend these choices to SKs.  I don't believe they will EVER make this class equal to those other classes, either in actual or perceived value by raid guilds.  So please, just allow us to end this failed experiment with SKs in EQ2, and let us switch to a more useful, powerful, and better working fighter class.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thank you</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Ishbu]

<P>If your talking about this just applying to SK's, I say no, that doesnt really make any sense.</P> <P>However, personally I dont think it makes any sense that a guardian can betray and become a berserker.  They are a neutral class, they are no more the same than a sk is to a guardian.  Hell a paladin is closer to a guardian than a berserker is.  I really see no reason, from a roleplaying standpoint, or even a common sense one that a neutral class can betray to switch their class.  Betraying is the allignment of cities, not your [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing class.  Having to go from, sk to paladin for example is just a side effect of the cities.</P> <P>As long as all class specific gear is being stripped, all skills set to app 1, I dont see why every class cant just betray and pick a brand new one, any one.  What does it matter?  A warlock can turn into a wizard, but a wizard cant turn into a conjuror, wich is way more similar as far as what classes do.  </P> <P>Neutral classes switching classes is dumb, and if they can do it, all classes should be able to change to anything.  It makes just as much sense.</P>

[Ceruline]

<DIV>I took the post more as an indictment of the current utility a SK brings to a raid than as a real plea for total class-switch freedom.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>We definitely have ground to make up, and we all need to just do what we can to bring the issues to the attention of the devs.  I feel that the arguments of the OP are very well laid out, and supported by a good deal more experience than I've ever had at high end raiding.  However, I definitely don't think that the solution is to essentially give up on the SK as a class.  The reason we've all chosen this misbegotten class in the first place is because something in it appeals to us.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If I'm going to believe that in spite of all logical and supported arguments that we bring SOE is never going to consider adjusting our class to perform better in raids, the I might as well just quit.  The fact is, I don't believe that to be the case - I strongly believe that if we continue to set our well supported logical arguments that eventually there will be balance changes made.  It's not happening now, because this round of patching is mostly concerned with control changes, an ENORMOUS change to tradeskilling, harvesting, and the broker system, and the new content coming in with the AP. (LU 24 is probably the biggest non-expansion LU that I can ever remember.)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Our time is going to come.  We just need to continue to be vocal.  Balance changes are slow - we just need to make sure that when it's our turn, the RIGHT changes are made.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I hope when they make the changes, they read the original post here.</DIV>

[AziBam]

<P>If nothing else, I'd like to thank Ixnay for the tip on how to test a higher lvl toon.  I've done searches for that in the past without success.  </P> <P>I don't have a good frame of reference (yet) so I really don't have huge complaints about my SK.  Then again, I don't raid so my experience isn't really what you were focusing on.  </P> <P>My understanding regarding the betrayal is that you don't switch classes unless you are in one of the good/evil only archetypes.  So, yes an SK would become a pally or, a Mystic would become a Defiler.  But a warlock would still be a warlock since they are neutral.  A Berserker would still be a Berserker.  They would just have a new home city.  Can't recall if I've seen this posted by Dev's or just players but that seems to be the common opinion at this time.      </P>

[Jebaris]

If you are an SK and betray you should be forced to become a Female Kerra Mystic

[Ceruline]

<DIV>Dkel - the buff on Test is only temporary for the duration of The Fallen Dynasty beta.  Also, they just changed it so it will buff to a max level of 60.</DIV>

[Ixnay]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Dkel wrote:<BR> <P>My understanding regarding the betrayal is that you don't switch classes unless you are in one of the good/evil only archetypes.  So, yes an SK would become a pally or, a Mystic would become a Defiler.  But a warlock would still be a warlock since they are neutral.  A Berserker would still be a Berserker.  They would just have a new home city.  Can't recall if I've seen this posted by Dev's or just players but that seems to be the common opinion at this time.      </P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>For sure, the neutral classes will be able to switch to their counterpart class.  Guards will be able to become Zerks and vice versa, same with dirges and troubs, etc.</P> <P>Thanks<BR></P>

[Ixnay]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Ceruline wrote:<BR> <DIV>Also, they just changed it so it will buff to a max level of 60.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Dang, I must have just got in under the wire.  Ok, I guess I'm suggesting that everyone try a 60 SK, then compare that beta buff toon to a 60 Zerk or Bruiser.  The difference in damage, tanking, utility skills, and just the "oomph" you get from fighting is HUGE.</P> <P>Thanks<BR></P>

[Quaan]

<P>I hear you Ixnay! Also played a SK as my main through DoF when it became more and more apparent that I was considered excess baggage on a raid....</P> <P>Went back and levelled up my defiler and became usefull again. Sucks re-rolling is the best fix at this time.</P> <P>Really sad the state SoE have left the SK class in and they care too little to ever fix them.</P>

[Tasmai]

Every top raiding guild gamewide has at least 1 SK, and for a reason. But yes, more then 1 is a waste. I know I can contribute to a raids success, but maybe thats because I am so good at my class though. Theres very few things I would change about my class, and I am proud to be an SK <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Kaedi]

<DIV>One hiccup in the system is that switching archetypes (crusader > brawler > warrior etc) would likewise require an AP reset.</DIV>

[Beldin_]

Lol .. yeah or better betray to any class .. no AA reset .. would be great to roll an SK .. and betray to wizard with 68% spellcrit .. rofl <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />