I am not feeling "it" yet.

[GoatSlave]

Hello to all.I have started a new SK and I just dinged 15 in the Runins. So far I am growing into the character but I do not feel that oomph which I felt with my Monk or the Berserker around this level. One thing that I love is the Infernal Blessing (MASTER II now) life tap but it is a total MUST to cast before just about any multiple (2) blue or a single white con fight. I am a dark elf and even for me mana is a HUGE problem. A lot of times I find myself full of life and out of mana. I tried new tactics but once again I have to cast IB and go heavy on spells as my melee DPS is low or I will die. And IB is a mana pig. So far (yes I know I am very young) the class feels a bit clunky and solo unfriendly even after shopping at the broker and getting decent gear and spells.So, this brings me to my question.When does the SK start to come to his own and does he always have such serious mana issues?I thank you in advance.<div></div>

[Alevyan]

Ok, first off, these are issues which are going to be with you for your entire career as an SK, with the exception of the "Oomph". Mana wise, ShadowKnights are more or less complete pigs. We have two stats divided which boost our mana(STR & WIS) and Neither of them give us a lot of mana when buffed up. But trust me, its not as bad as it used to be. We USED to finish a fight with an empty bar, we're better off now. Here's the thing: Its painful at first I know, believe me it really really is unfortunate how long it takes us to truly come into our own as the class we are ultimately designed to be: Whacky and nuts. When level 26 rolls around we get our first pet, which is a significant DPS increase, at level 30 we're introduced to our wrath line, and boy howdy is it super fun, hoo-hoo! I'd like to be able to say we're fun all the way through, but lets face it: We take a long time to get our ball rolling. My main is a 67 ShadowKnight and I'm loving it, my DPS is insane and I parse higher than the Brigand quite regularly with my 530int armor, and 400str with syphon strength. We have potential, its very drawn out. <div></div>

[Desdichada]

<DIV>I think around 30 I began to feel much better about myself. Just like it was 500 years ago. Then closer to 40 it starts to shine. Provided you can have masters and aIII upgrades.</DIV>

[Lord Montague]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Desdichada wrote:<BR> <DIV>I think around 30 I began to feel much better about myself. Just like it was 500 years ago. Then closer to 40 it starts to shine. Provided you can have masters and aIII upgrades.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Equipment I agree is always important...but masters?  Ehh, they are nice to have but hardly something I would call "requisite" to being successful.  Adepts are fairly easy to find on the broker/fence and don't forget your best friend - the alchemist!

[Desdichada]

<DIV>Probably poor wording on my part. I happened to have an alchemist alt and also, 30-50 SK masters were fairly reasonably priced on AB. That's where "shine" came in. It is not required to "feel it", just helps to feel a bigger oomph I suspect. </DIV>

[Jebaris]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P> <HR> <P></P> <P>GoatSlave wrote:<BR>Hello to all.<BR><BR>I have started a new SK and I just dinged 15 in the Runins. So far I am growing into the character but I do not feel that oomph which I felt with my Monk or the Berserker around this level. </P> <P><FONT color=#6633ff>Maybe it has something to do with you being bored with lvls 1-15 as well? SK was my first Freeport character so after 5 other alts (bored in Antonica) my SK at lvl 15 was thrilling. Also, I always felt like gear is more important to an SK - we rely on all the stats to some degree and not much of the armor in the teens is helpful for that.</FONT> </P> <P> </P> <P>One thing that I love is the Infernal Blessing (MASTER II now) life tap but it is a total MUST to cast before just about any multiple (2) blue or a single white con fight. </P> <P><FONT color=#6633ff>SK's are gods of AOE. IB sucks mana because its so powerful. Stay away from single pulls unless you are in a group. When soloing you will be able to slaughter groups of 4 or more with IB plus AOE attacks & use your pet to offtank. Killing single mobs is inefficient.</FONT> </P> <P><BR>When does the SK start to come to his own and does he always have such serious mana issues?<BR><FONT color=#6633ff>I havent had serious mana issues since lvl 20. Again, i think this class is very dependent on gear. Be sure you are always wearing your tiers' Legendary and you'll be fine.</FONT><BR><BR><BR> <HR> <P></P></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><p>Message Edited by Jebaris on <span class=date_text>06-05-2006</span> <span class=time_text>09:04 AM</span>

[Impetus]

<blockquote><hr>GoatSlave wrote:Hello to all.I have started a new SK and I just dinged 15 in the Runins. So far I am growing into the character but I do not feel that oomph which I felt with my Monk or the Berserker around this level. One thing that I love is the Infernal Blessing (MASTER II now) life tap but it is a total MUST to cast before just about any multiple (2) blue or a single white con fight. I am a dark elf and even for me mana is a HUGE problem. A lot of times I find myself full of life and out of mana. I tried new tactics but once again I have to cast IB and go heavy on spells as my melee DPS is low or I will die. And IB is a mana pig. So far (yes I know I am very young) the class feels a bit clunky and solo unfriendly even after shopping at the broker and getting decent gear and spells.So, this brings me to my question.When does the SK start to come to his own and does he always have such serious mana issues?I thank you in advance.<div></div><hr></blockquote>One thing to consider would be going through some of your spells and seeing which ones are mana-efficient and which ones are not. Then only use the inefficient ones if you need to go into burn mode. One major offender I'm thinking of is the slash attack + wisdom debuff line (Cleave Flesh). I've found the Coil line and the Blessing line are two of the more efficient ones, although I don't think you have the Coil line yet. And of course your two AE attacks, when fighting a group. You could almost go through fights at that level by only casting Infernal Blessing. Especially if you precast it and wait for your mana to regen a tick or two. And wait until you get knocked down some in hitpoints before recasting, because it will actually heal you up in the lower levels. (Basically, lean on that Blessing while it's still really really good.) And obviously any spells you've upgraded will probably be your most efficient spells, since they're more powerful, but use the same amount of mana. (I'm sure you probably know these general strategies, but I thought I'd include them in case you haven't taken the time yet to comb through all your spells, since the early levels go by so fast.) <div></div>

[Pitt Hammerfi]

hehe i often tank 20 green mobs at once, even though i can only hit 8 at once, have you ever seen that ? other classes just look on jealously <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />by the time you get to 70 you can stand there and kill mobs by letting them hit you, hehe you dont even have to castwe pwn simple

[Rylight]

<P>something is seriously wrong if you are having problems soloing, sk's can solo just fine at lvl 12+ or even under (the lvl you get your infernal blessing line) im guessing you arent geared well? please tell us what kinda gear and spells you have, for an sk to be independent he needs mostly adept 1 spells, and fair gear. we are plate tanks , not robe wearing casters, we depend on heavy plate to keep us alive, and if its not up graded well then your doomed to hit the dirt</P> <P>once again sk's are one of the best solo classes in the game, then agian you wont really start to feel your class till about lvl 26 when you get your pet, but even now you should have no trouble soloing greens to yellows, (and for some of us even oranges)</P>

[Xanoth]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Pitt Hammerfist wrote:<BR>hehe i often tank 20 green mobs at once, even though i can only hit 8 at once, have you ever seen that ? other classes just look on jealously <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR><BR>by the time you get to 70 you can stand there and kill mobs by letting them hit you, hehe you dont even have to cast<BR><BR>we pwn simple<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>its the ONLY way to tank <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>a ranger commented yesterday when i was in the sanctum helping some people with claymore quests. "i've never seen anyone pull a whole room before" .. "and not die".</P> <P>it certainly reminded me why i love my class so much, as its something i often take for granted.</P> <P>______________________________________</P> <P> </P> <P>to the OP, i definatly remember power being a major issue back at that level.  and gear is often the reason, low level gear is just nasty.  SK's need a little of everything as far as stats go.  for power you want to be working on your STR mainly, then WIS. INT somewhere inbetween for damage to make the most of the power you have.</P> <P>a good balckened iron assault axe is also good at those levels... go with the axe all the way, i did. they have a better stat distribution than any other rare crafted weapon. still not sure why, but they always have 5 more total stats.</P> <P>as for soloing, its tough tough to balance your power usage with life taps/damage to win with the highest amount of pwoer possible. as you noticed blessing uses a lot of power, try not to over cast it, make sure you re-cast only when the last ones gone. use shield bash and kick to full effect to stun the enemy, especialy for casters to interupt them.</P> <P>it gets a lot better than what it will be for you at 15, i remember life back then being tough (my SK was an alt, but hit 70 before my old main, so i switched and am loving it <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> )</P>

[Jebaris]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Xanoth wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE>"i've never seen anyone pull a whole room before" .. "and not die".</BLOCKQUOTE> <P>it certainly reminded me why i love my class so much, as its something i often take for granted.</P> <P>______________________________________</P> <P>LOL, at 57 duoing with a Fury (also favors AOE encounters) we are clearing towers in Maj Dul like ghee</P> <P>2 or 3 groups and it only gets hairy with 2 or so Heroic ^^^ adds</P> <P> </P></BLOCKQUOTE>

[GoatSlave]

Thank you for all your responses.In truth my gear is ok but nothing fancy so this may be the reason for this problem. I really cannot afford any Legendary stuff as people will really try to rip you off on the broker.  For soloing should I be using a 2H weapon or a shield and a 1H weapon? I tried both and I my mana consumption is still very bad.Again thanks for all the info.<div></div>

[Impetus]

Are you doing the quest line in the Ruins? I've found that platemail chest and legs really helped a lot once I finished the quests for them. I certainly wasn't wearing anything legendary at that level. (I started my SK just a couple of months ago, and he is level 41 now.)I pretty much always use a shield with as much shield factor as I can get. And if I'm soloing something tough, I go into defensive stance. I figure with the extra blocks and mitigation, I can take away a lot of the damage that would normally get to me. And anything that gets through my armor, gets lifetapped back. (Make sure you wait for all 5 of the lifetap charges to get used before you recast, or you are wasting mana.)I know some people use different strategies, but a safe, lifetapping defensive style is the one that seems to have worked best for me.<div></div>

[Kryptonix]

All you gotta do is just play the class through, I will garauntee you that it only gets better. What those other SKs are saying about being able to tank a butt load of green con mobs is absolutely true. 2 words Tap Viens.<div></div>

[Xanoth]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> GoatSlave wrote:<BR>For soloing should I be using a 2H weapon or a shield and a 1H weapon? I tried both and I my mana consumption is still very bad.<BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>depends on the dificulty of the mob i guess. but if im soloing something tough, i always use my shield. the extra stun and avoidance are much more useful that a bit more damage.  i only really fight two handed if im killing weak mobs, or im made someone else tank.</P> <P>mana use gets better, but it remains an issue for all fighter types.</P>

[dia]

i didnt feel it till lvl 31. good luck getting there, it was painful for me.<div></div>

[Agamemno]

yeah it stays that way pretty much, except you'll have more spells and CAs to spam but they're all pretty gimpy. Only playing mine still at almost 51 cause I kinda feel stuck as all my friends are my level and catching up is a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]. Prolly shoulda played a guardian or maybe a brigand first. Oh well, vanguard will be out soon I hope.<div></div>

[Agamemno]

<div><blockquote><hr>Pitt Hammerfist wrote:hehe i often tank 20 green mobs at once, even though i can only hit 8 at once, have you ever seen that ? other classes just look on jealously <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />by the time you get to 70 you can stand there and kill mobs by letting them hit you, hehe you dont even have to castwe pwn simple<hr></blockquote>Oh yay we can kill droves of down-arrow greens! W00H000! we are fearsome!While the bruiser next to you solos blue triple-ups.Face it, our melee DPS is [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]e, our spells are so easily interrupted in PvP that most of them can't even be cast with a couple greenies on ya, and our utility is pretty lame (targettable FD is awesome though)</div>

[Xanoth]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Agamemnoch wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR><BR><BR>Oh yay we can kill droves of down-arrow greens! W00H000! we are fearsome!<BR><BR>While the bruiser next to you solos blue triple-ups.<BR><BR> <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>lol, i can solo yellow tripple up, and im sure most 70 SKs that have put the effort in can do the same.</P> <P>i can solo my way through the sanctum if im that bored. blue heroics really aren't a problem.</P> <P>im pretty sure pitt was talking about heroics.<BR></P>

[Silten StealerofSouls]

<DIV>So I have been reading most of these posts and in response to the OP I say this - Hang in there buddy.  SK's rock.  Just like the news when you read a lot of the posts here you will find a lot of negative posts bolstered here and there with some positive feed back etc. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I primarily solo and my main is a 64 about to ding 65 SK.  While I cannot speak to raiding I can speak to solo and duo situations and hands down we are one of the baddest solo classes around.  I dont believe any other class can solo on the high end like we can.  And I dont have elite gear or all masters.  I have however kept my gear up to date in terms of matching my level tier.  My spells and arts are all adept 1 with a couple 3's and a master or 2.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Like others have said we take a time to gain our power - as you level each level will add something additional to your character.  I liken the progression of our character abilities to that of the way we fight. </DIV> <DIV>We start out a little slow but once everything is cooking we can do some insane dps.  Same thing with our class we start a little slow but we just gain speed as you go.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I have always viewed the SK as the thinking mans tank.  By that I mean we are not as single dimensional as some of the other tank classes, we really have to use our money makers to make the right choices to keep our characters in the zone.   This applies to gear choices, combat choices and other less obvious.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>From the gear standpoint we, unlike most other classes, truely have a need for almost all the stats.   Certainly you can focus on a single stat and force the Sk into a singular roll but to allow the Sk to shine you need to be multi talented and multi roll.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I will say this - when it comes to that oomph feeling - stay tuned cause it comes in several flavors. Wrath line of spells - whoo hoo, and then, wait... here it comes... TAP VEINS baby!! at level 55 this is THE class defining spell, when you hit 55 sell your soul for a adept III or Master I version of this spell.  This spell alone allows you to do things that other classes can only dream of without a healer.  I have my spell crit maxed and when you are fighting 6 to 8 blue mobs and your getting beat down pretty good and you pop this baby and it crits - holy bajesus - SK complete heal baby!!!.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>SK's certainly have their drawbacks and are not the class for everyone, however if you like to use your brain as much as your brawn then you have chosen wisely.  </DIV> <DIV>Whether you creat ehe ultimate battlemage or roll up a Super tank you have both options and you can blend them to create a very versatile tank.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>  </DIV>

[Jebaris]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Agamemnoch wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Oh yay we can kill droves of down-arrow greens! W00H000! we are fearsome!<BR><BR>While the bruiser next to you solos blue triple-ups.</P> <P><FONT color=#6633ff>I solo blue triple-ups nightly</FONT></P> <P>Face it, our melee DPS is [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]e,our spells are so easily interrupted in PvP that most of them can't even be cast with a couple greenies on ya, and our utility is pretty lame (targettable FD is awesome though)<BR> </P> <P><FONT color=#6633ff>I disagree but also waaaaaaaaah - you sound like a whiney paladin. maybe you should betray</FONT></P> <P><BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>

[skidmark]

<blockquote><hr>Alevyan wrote:Ok, first off, these are issues which are going to be with you for your entire career as an SK, with the exception of the "Oomph". Mana wise, ShadowKnights are more or less complete pigs. We have two stats divided which boost our mana(STR & WIS) and Neither of them give us a lot of mana when buffed up. But trust me, its not as bad as it used to be. We USED to finish a fight with an empty bar, we're better off now. Here's the thing: Its painful at first I know, believe me it really really is unfortunate how long it takes us to truly come into our own as the class we are ultimately designed to be: Whacky and nuts. When level 26 rolls around we get our first pet, which is a significant DPS increase, <b>at level 30 we're introduced to our wrath line</b>, and boy howdy is it super fun, hoo-hoo! I'd like to be able to say we're fun all the way through, but lets face it: We take a long time to get our ball rolling. My main is a 67 ShadowKnight and I'm loving it, my DPS is insane and I parse higher than the Brigand quite regularly with my 530int armor, and 400str with syphon strength. We have potential, its very drawn out. <div></div><hr></blockquote>We don't get Dreadful Wrath until 40.I have a level 30 SK on the Test server and solo exclusively. Soloing has been easier on test than normal due to the xp buff, but I still don't think it would have been tough on live either. I turned off combat xp in the early 20's to complete more quests for achievement xp, and still found it easy to get to 30. As easy as a necro? No, but a lot better than a defiler.A few observations/suggestions about the sub-30 SK:<ul><li>We depend on too many stats!</li><li>I try to land my group taunt (disease debuff) before landing my big disease spells (i.e. Harm Touch, and our smite line) for the extra damage.</li><li>We are equipment and spell/ca [Removed for Content]. Tanks need more cash than most classes (aside from brawlers).</li><li>When presented the option of faster combat health regen, combat power regen, more total hp, or more total power, take the power regen. I still use general lonetusk's stud at 30 even though it is only flowing thought 1.</li><ul><li>I was able to solo Lonetusk at 23, just take out his friends quick then feign (cross fingers). Then heal up and take lonetusk out. The earring is a nice addtion.</li></ul><li>Get your offensive stance up to adept 3 (you get an upgrade at 22).</li></ul>

[G1Joe]

From my experience (only 48atm) I did not feel that great about the char until the forties. At the moment I am enjoying him and with Tap Veins and Mana Sieve to come I can only imagine it gets better.

[joeygopher]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> G1Joe wrote:<BR> From my experience (only 48atm) I did not feel that great about the char until the forties. At the moment I am enjoying him and with Tap Veins and Mana Sieve to come I can only imagine it gets better.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Mana Sieve doesn't really have much of an impact.</P> <P>Tap Veins on the other hand is probably up there in our top 3 "class-defining" spells.  Its a life-tap.  Its a BIG life-tap.  Shame you don't get it until late in T6 though.</P>

[Jebaris]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> joeygopher wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE>Mana Sieve doesn't really have much of an impact.</BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>If you arent oom at the end of your fights then you need to kick it up a notch. Mana Sieve can make the difference when you are soloing <FONT color=#6666ff>Heroic ^^^</FONT> or multiple encounters<BR>