shadowknights for high end grouping and raiding??

[baggy19]

Hi Guys,Let me just start with saying i love playing my SK, and we rock.I just a little disillusioned with my SK at the moment. I am currently a 69 DE SK on Splitpaw, and do you think i can find a group??I LFG for ages, and even try to create my own, but i get very little or no takers at all. What is everyones issue with SK in groups??The only grouping i do now is basically with my Guild. I want to RAID high end stuff, but i can't get accepted into any Raiding guilds as a SK. I do stuff with my guildies, but no highend stuff as they are always busy.My Pally, Zerker and Guard guildies all get spots in minutes..I essentially have to Solo the bulk of my time, whats the point of a SK when we aren't wanted by anyone?? SOE, have made it so the SK is a solo class, it's a joke, as the SK is a great class and i love playing as one.Is it an intentional thing on Sony's part to kill us off?? Well they are doing a great job.I have good none RAID gear, Master and A3 Taunts, Master pet, and Master Stances. I am a very capable Tank, but it's getting ridiculous.Do u guys experience this or is it just me??<p>Message Edited by baggy1967 on <span class=date_text>05-29-2006</span> <span class=time_text>01:30 AM</span>

[Kelkirra]

I personally do MT for raids and high end instances and am a personal choice for anyone that has ever grouped with me. I personally believe that it is more about the person behind the keyboard than anything else. My 2cp though. =D

[Dgorgon]

<DIV>Well, I don't think I have much trouble with finding a group...</DIV> <DIV>My guild have 2 active member, and I play during odd time(0-5am est).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Most ppl don't care about the tank being a guard or sk or monk. I even got to tank for HoF when I am 69 with full cobalt( 25 deaths, 8 were from the first named and 13 from the skarisz. Glad they didn;t put lock out timers on zone in).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Sure sometimes I can't find a single group. I usually go to do some solo quest or tradeskill with lfg on. If I try to make my own group, it usually take half an hour or more. Maybe a bit long for someone who play 2-3 hours I don't know. But seems ok for me, for I usually play 6 hours before log out.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>About raid, I hardly get into one. Only those t6 open raid would accept random ppls as first come first served. Lab trash run always tank heavy and I am not confidence enough to start one myself. AoA/MoA were mostly run by guild. Tho I don't care much about that...There had been 4 or more raiding guilds recruiting sks(or recruited) in mistmoore since Apr. Maybe some day you can find a raiding guild...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In short, I don't feel finding a group( raid or not) is difficult. Maybe times spent on LFG were the same for us and we just feel different, I don't know. But I think I get a good reputation as beeing a tank and that might help. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Personally, I prefer these tanks and try my best to be one:</DIV> <DIV>1. Chain puller. I never wait for power unless everyone 's 10% or below. Let  teammates manage the power themselves or die.</DIV> <DIV>2. PBAE freak. Try to pull as much as possible. Killing 1-2 green herorics make me sick. Multi-group-killing make me grab aggros better because the mages usually got encounter ae instead. I usually try to pull 6-8 in sos to make max usage of my ae. Same as those at the PoA entrance. Tap vain+ grave blessing+divine aura FTW.</DIV> <DIV>3. Long time runner. Ppl would like to go instance after instance, and tank usually is the critical role as we usually got 2 healers.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>-Scrodinger</DIV> <P>Message Edited by Dgorgon on <SPAN class=date_text>05-29-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>06:57 AM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by Dgorgon on <span class=date_text>05-29-2006</span> <span class=time_text>07:04 AM</span>

[Fistantantilus]

ya don't let this get you down. it sometimes happens to not find a group.sure there are not available spots in high end raid guilds for sks but then again they are not for almost all plate tanks in most of them. people usually just like paladins for aments.  they get a high dps toon and stick him a pally next to him to dump his aggro so he can nuke his brains out. I am in a guild of two ppl left (and the other guy had issues with the game being too slow for his pc and has not logged for a week so I might be a guild of my own <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> ). Since I play odd times and I do not want to leave my guild of course I do not have access to high end raiding but sometimes you might find an open pickup raid. And although I do think the gear unfortunately matters esp in tanks (since of course your mitigation/avoidance//hp/mana will be highier in high end gear) if you play your toon well you can compensate for the lack of it upto a point.I was in a hof group once with a guardian. before the first named they asked me to pull (cuz he was pulling the entire dungeon on us). and after the first named they asked me to tank too. and I ended up tanking from the frankie droag upto the end of the dungeon.  So gear matters but experience mattered too. This guy, a guardian, persumably had better tools to tank than an sk and generate aggro but ... he lacked the skill to play his toon and was getting his group killed. I admit I do not know the other tank classes well. My only tank toon is sk but I am alchemist too so I am making their spells. And I believe that if you let ppl learn you are good they will pick you up for instances etc...P.S if you want high end raiding guilds to beg you to join them you need perhaps to play another class. dps, healers (esp shammies) and enchanters /bards are what are mostly sought after from what I have seen from recruitment posts. most of them are tank heavy already.<div></div>

[Cichlasoma]

<P>To answer the poster. Unfortunately it seems that society has a misleading myth view on SK's as tanks. There are certain people fortunate enough to prove them incorrect. Yes like all classes we have certain diffculties that many of us would like to see an improvement on to help change that view. Overall an SK who knows how to play can do an excellent job at tanking.  It is tough at times to find a group, but it helps that we are very good at soloing. </P> <P>In response to Dgorgon. The fact that you are lvl 69 and still wearing cobalt is bad enough, but to brag about tanking HoF and dying 25 times is not the kind of publicity that SKs want. It is a great example that spell lvl / gear is very important in order to tank well. Especially for instances as such. <BR></P> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Dgorgon wrote:<BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Most ppl don't care about the tank being a guard or sk or monk. I even got to tank for HoF when I am 69 with full cobalt( 25 deaths, 8 were from the first named and 13 from the skarisz. Glad they didn;t put lock out timers on zone in).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>

[baggy19]

Hi Guys, Thanks for the replies. I understand Dgorgons reply. The reason that he is still in Cobalt at 69, illustrates my point exactly.How are we supposed to get better armour if we dont visit places like the Lab and the Vaults etc.

[Sokolov]

<div><blockquote><hr>Cichlasoma wrote:<div></div> <p>To answer the poster. Unfortunately it seems that society has a misleading myth view on SK's as tanks. There are certain people fortunate enough to prove them incorrect. Yes like all classes we have certain diffculties that many of us would like to see an improvement on to help change that view. Overall an SK who knows how to play can do an excellent job at tanking.  It is tough at times to find a group, but it helps that we are very good at soloing. </p> <p>In response to Dgorgon. The fact that you are lvl 69 and still wearing cobalt is bad enough, but to brag about tanking HoF and dying 25 times is not the kind of publicity that SKs want. It is a great example that spell lvl / gear is very important in order to tank well. Especially for instances as such. </p> <blockquote> <hr> Dgorgon wrote: <div></div> <div></div> <div> </div> <div>Most ppl don't care about the tank being a guard or sk or monk. I even got to tank for HoF when I am 69 with full cobalt( 25 deaths, 8 were from the first named and 13 from the skarisz. Glad they didn;t put lock out timers on zone in).</div> <div> </div> <hr> </blockquote><hr></blockquote>At least he wasn't like this Paladin I found once with less mitigation than I had coming to tank Vaults for us... </div>

[Dgorgon]

<DIV>I think you have a bad misunderstanding here Cichlasoma.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This post is talking about getting a group, not about "tank well". Talk about the "fact" above is to illustrate the point I put there: "Most ppl don't care about the tank being a guard or sk or monk." Can't you see? They just randomly grab a tank and say "Let's go do HoF". I had a hard time there, but I successfully tank all mobs to get Hoolok update for my team. No one care about the so called "misleading myth view" when talking about 1 group instance. Class and equipment difference can be make up by 2 healers to some extent, every one know that. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I talk about the tank style later because I think it might help, and because the OP didn't give other information about him. But not to totally hijact the thread to "how to tank". </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>BTW: I WAS 69 and wearing cobalt because I bought KoS 1 month ago. That dosen't mean I am still 69 and cobalt now. </DIV>

[Dgorgon]

<P>Sigh... Maybe I shouldn't use all those exp potions...</P> <P>OK, I don't know how fast or slow you level. But I get from 60-69 in a week with all those vit and exp potions. I got my first vault group at 64, poa/den/blackscale group at 66, and hof group at 69. Treasure loots just don't provide enough mit/resis to replace my cobalt and RNG don't guarantee legendary drops in 3 runs( 1per day). That's why I am in cobalt at taht time.</P> <P>I don't actually feel diffcult to find a group during lvl up. </P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P>BTW: I just miss a relic run- the only one that dosen't ask "caster/scout/healer only plz" in a whole month....Miss it just because I was typing all these asdfasdf. sigh, /banghead*100.</P><p>Message Edited by Dgorgon on <span class=date_text>05-30-2006</span> <span class=time_text>07:28 AM</span>

[Kelkirra]

<DIV>Tanking HoF in cobalt O_O. Dude, you can get legendary armor that can replace cobalt in just random instance groups. I am in several pieces of t6 and t7 fabled because of raiding, but it doesn't take this  to have decent gear. Blackscale has a ring even that drops the BP that I wear with over 500 MIT on it and there are several other pieces that will drop randomly out of instances including the green dragon in PoA that drops plate Scalelord armor which is a MAJOR upgrade to cobalt. Just get out and hit up some instances and you'll have gear more than adaquate to tank instances.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As far as us for raids, well, we're overlooked because most ppl have the inclination that SK's  can't tank. There are those of us to prove that wrong as I have many times. We are fine for tanking raids unless the mob isset up for a specific tank, in which case, I am more than happy to step down for the appropriate tank for it =D.</DIV>

[Dgorgon]

<DIV>Sigh...I know, I know. I shouldn't talk about that 69 with cobalt [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I just don't want to put my money on these easy to get updates. And those discovery exp adds up fast. 1st run in each instance usually net me 70%+ exp. So I only did blackscale once before 69 which drop 2 freaking robes. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now I am 70 and already got all the legendary update from poa and instance. So please stop laughing at me and back to the topic. /bow</DIV><p>Message Edited by Dgorgon on <span class=date_text>05-30-2006</span> <span class=time_text>07:11 PM</span>

[Alevyan]

<div></div>Its true that we do sometimes get typecasted as bad tanks before we even get into a group, but keep in mind its the shadowknight playerbases own whining about it that has driven people away. In reality we only perform slightly less capably than the next leading tank class. When I hit 64 I took my group taunt as Master II, and Adept III'd Insidieous promise(the single target taunt.) and I can lock down aggro very comfortably, as well sometimes steal aggro from a guardian or a zerker if I feel the need to debuff the enemy against disease. A good potion of your ability to tank comes from the compotence of the players grouped with them as well. There are a great and powerful sea of complete toolbags who don't know how to control their DPS and can't seem to understand that ALL tanks need to lock down aggro in order to maintain crowd control, its just that some do it faster than others. All in all, I recommend doing the following things to be a good SK tank who can comfortably take the lead without breaking a sweat:Master/Adept III your taunts & Stances.Find a healer who can give you some wisdom as a buff, it always helps with resistances.Finally, get a group that understands that SKs take a couple of taunts longer to lock down aggro.All you need to do is prove yourself a couple of times and you'll have someone add you to your friends list, and you'll get tanking invites regularly.<div></div><p>Message Edited by Alevyan on <span class=date_text>05-30-2006</span> <span class=time_text>07:15 PM</span>

[Kelkirra]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Alevyan wrote:<BR><BR> Its true that we do sometimes get typecasted as bad tanks before we even get into a group, but keep in mind its the shadowknight playerbases own whining about it that has driven people away. In reality we only perform slightly less capably than the next leading tank class. When I hit 64 I took my group taunt as Master II, and Adept III'd Insidieous promise(the single target taunt.) and I can lock down aggro very comfortably, as well sometimes steal aggro from a guardian or a zerker if I feel the need to debuff the enemy against disease. <BR><BR>A good potion of your ability to tank comes from the compotence of the players grouped with them as well. There are a great and powerful sea of complete toolbags who don't know how to control their DPS and can't seem to understand that ALL tanks need to lock down aggro in order to maintain crowd control, its just that some do it faster than others. All in all, I recommend doing the following things to be a good SK tank who can comfortably take the lead without breaking a sweat:<BR><BR>Master/Adept III your taunts & Stances.<BR>Find a healer who can give you some wisdom as a buff, it always helps with resistances.<BR>Finally, get a group that understands that SKs take a couple of taunts longer to lock down aggro.<BR><BR>All you need to do is prove yourself a couple of times and you'll have someone add you to your friends list, and you'll get tanking invites regularly.<BR> <P>Message Edited by Alevyan on <SPAN class=date_text>05-30-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>07:15 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Agreed my friend. After tanking just once for ppl, I usually get tell hell from them constantly. My guildmates constantly ask me to tank for them and they had never had a SK main in their guild before. Now, I raid tank and tank constantly for our groups. =D It's all about Hate over Time. We have hate over time and dots and since 1 point of damage=1 point of hate, we can build up some nice hate in just a few short seconds =D.

[Mmaster]

<div></div><img src="http://img77.imageshack.us/img77/8045/sepulcher15ix.jpg"> <img src="http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/4526/sepulcher25qv.jpg"> Those are rombo style pulls, pull as much as you can from a room, usually atleast 5 groups, more if there are roamers. EDIT: Forgot to include - This is using one healer(Templar) the rest is dps, we can trio every instance easily, but it is more fun with four, tank, healer, ranger, and wizard. <img src="http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/1605/vilucidae5vj.jpg"> One of the easier mobs I've tanked.<div></div><p>Message Edited by Mmaster on <span class=date_text>06-01-2006</span> <span class=time_text>03:56 AM</span>

[Wabit]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Mmaster wrote:<BR> <BR><IMG src="http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/1605/vilucidae5vj.jpg"><BR>One of the easier mobs I've tanked.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>pfft, flower kicking is where the fun is at (thats where i was)...  and you let the defiler die...  you have learned well :smileytongue: ...</P> <P>now kill those 8 blacksmiths in SE...  OMG you're such a [Removed for Content] noob...<BR></P>

[Coica]

haha@wabit! I think it is up to <font color="#ff0033"><b>us</b></font> to change whatever attitude people have towards us. I get in PUG's all the time and have learned that it is up to me to figure out what my role is going to be and when to do what to make a group work well, NOT by just going into a group and having the leader or someone else assume I am going to fill in a certain role if Im not MT . I kinda like it when I surprise a group by <font color="#6633cc">not</font> doing something stupid like using my AOE at the wrong time, or having my Touch line ready when needed instead of wasting it, or just plain not panicking when action gets crazy. good playing will do more for our reputations than any talking on message boards ever will.<div></div>

[baggy19]

Hi Guys,I totally agree that it's up to us to change people perception of the class. My point however is still that i don't get the opportunities to do that, hence the on going problem.I am on the Splitpaw server, and if i get one or two grps a week im lucky!!! I also can't get any high end armour without buying it for the same reasons, it's really a catch 22 for me. I am no longer enjoying my SK or the game much at all.thxs

[Giral]

<P>here is a option for you to try to Get group's and Make friend's and possibly join a guild that want's to raid :   Mentor </P> <P> </P> <P>I have found that Eq2 runs in Cycles, example :  Expansion Comes out and you get your Hardcore level crowd they Group until they Max level, then the middle of the road levels up and then the slowbie's of that Cycle start Popping endcap,  </P> <P>Now they all capped or close to it, usually guildie's and friend's and they have done every instance a hundred times and if they going they will go with friends and guildies</P> <P> </P> <P>now what's next ? the Next cycle of leveler's , your hardcore lookin to go straigh from 60 to 70 , midlle of the road And the slowbie's </P> <P>so if your having trouble finding a Group at Your level , try MT'ing for lower level Group's say people LFG exp level 58 to 63 , Mentor them they get Bonus Exp and they will Love it . you already know these zone's In and Out , Make friend's , ask about thier guild's ? see if any of them are into Hardcore raiding ,  a Guild of Mostly 55 to 60 lvl  players would Love to have a LvL 69 SK as thier MT : ) and if they wouldn't then they are nutz , there is still some Decent T6 Fabled  to be had , and if anything else you get Raid experiance even if they lower zone's and Loot that you could merchant for Decent coin ,     </P> <P>Now the above method might work and might not : ) , but i have found also that Lower level player's don't carry the MT bias as the level capped do ( and then the ones that Are biased just haven't had the good pleasure of witnessing a truely Amazing SK MT , and i would feel sorry for them if i was a  Paly : P   , The MT Bias is mostly in end-game or Endgame player's on an ALT , </P> <P>also alot of Sk's aren't use to Mt'ing and when they are made to MT they might do a bad job just from LAck of experiance and then player's make a general assumption that ALL sk's Suck, add to that the BattleMage(Sk's) and alot think Sk's are more Dp's then Tank , and are use to Sk's playin a secondary Dp's role </P> <P> </P> <P>so like everything else about the SK class you will have to Utilize all your abilitie's to accomplish what ever you want , if you want to get group's easier and find a Raiding guild that will except you as an Sk , instead of wasting Hour's LFG , and stayin in a Stagnent Guild , Move on , go help some lowbie's. Make Friend's with EVERY healer you group with : ) , put them in your friend's List , if you have a Tank and a Healer you will normally be able to pick up Dp's fairly easy, once a Healer get's use to a SK as MT (Most healer's Love us : ) they will Also Back you up in group's  : Healer Say's " let's hold back on the Dp's  for a FeW second please i should only be Healin the MT and if i start goin oop guess who im saving my Power for ? "  <_------ Now if a Tank says this some classes say Screw You , But coming from the Healer : ) they know that Healer is the one keeping thier Agro stealin [Removed for Content] alive and they will get the Hint if YOU and the Healer are complaining about the Agro issues, it's a Tank's Job to Lead  the Group , and it's a Healer's Job to Control the Group , </P> <P>anyway Give it a Whirl , i Love groupin my Lowbie ALt (Inquisitor : ) with SK's </P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P>Giralus </P> <P> 70th LvL Sk </P> <P><Ascension></P> <P>ButcherBlock  </P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P> </P><p>Message Edited by Giralus on <span class=date_text>06-02-2006</span> <span class=time_text>06:51 PM</span>

[baggy19]

Hi Guys,Thanks for the good response Giralus. You make some excellent points, i do have a huge friends list by the way.I might try the mentoring thing for a while and see how i go, im happy to tank for anyone.thxs

[Sokolov]

<div><blockquote><hr>baggy1967 wrote:Hi Guys,Thanks for the good response Giralus. You make some excellent points, i do have a huge friends list by the way.I might try the mentoring thing for a while and see how i go, im happy to tank for anyone.thxs<hr></blockquote>??What kind of Shadowknight are you anyway?"Thanks?""Happy to tank for anyone?""Mentoring?"You sound like a Paladin =P</div>

[Giral]

<P><BR> </P> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Sokolov wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> baggy1967 wrote:<BR>Hi Guys,<BR><BR>Thanks for the good response Giralus. You make some excellent points, i do have a huge friends list by the way.<BR><BR>I might try the mentoring thing for a while and see how i go, im happy to tank for anyone.<BR><BR>thxs<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>??<BR><BR>What kind of Shadowknight are you anyway?<BR><BR>"Thanks?"<BR><BR>"Happy to tank for anyone?"<BR><BR>"Mentoring?"<BR><BR>You sound like a Paladin =P<BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>and what Kind of Sk are you ? judging by Your Sig, you arent a SK at all <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P>P.s. your welcome : ) , been mentoring a bit lately and figured maybe if you expanded on it you would have more options avialable , Good luck  /Salute </P>

[Sokolov]

"You're welcome"It's another Paladin!*points and laughs*hehe<div></div>

[Pitt Hammerfi]

why group? when we're one of the best solo classs in the game <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />solo and raid for me cut out the middle man <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />