Betraying New Patch to become Paladin

[Blaidd]

<DIV>I am seriousy considering betraying next patch and becoming a Paladin purely for the reason our Aggro control is so broken compared to other tanks. I created my SK to be a Main Tank yet its near impossible to keep aggro for an encounter without butning most of my power throwing everything I have at the mobs to keep them on me.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I am currently lvl 52 so this isnt something I am taking lightly. Was praying they would address this issue as its being going on so long.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Are any others doing this or can someone tell me that SK's can actually keep aggro better withought burning tons of power higher lvl? </DIV>

[ArmadaXeenelk]

<div></div>I can't think of the last time, or any where I thought I was having a problem tanking for a group. Even taking things that were difficult and over my level (orange and occasional red) and I still had no problems keeping them off of the healers or  running out of power completely.What I do is use my manastone often, when you get your power drain its pretty useful aswell(gives about the same as manastone over time).you'll also notice that alchemist make power potions(power over time is more effecient). and honestly I don't even need to use those things and i'm usually just fine.like others have posted, make good use of your HT, rescue, and graven embrace line if you can. it helps save a lot of power when  it comes down to getting agro back.good luck, I hope you decide to keep your Shadowknight, as they are still fun at level 70.<div></div>

[Brodja]

Aggro is Ok.nothing more to say.

[Kazander13]

<DIV>Seriously, aggro control may be less than preferable which will be noted by our mathematicians in the SK community, however it is not to the point where you're constantly losing aggro or anoything. When we get into that realm I hate to say it, but most people exaggerate, especially when it's time to post it. The other day I was grouped with conjuror, necro, Defiler, Fury and scout (cant remember which one) and I straight challenged all 3 of them to overnuke, use assassin pets, just plain try and steal aggro. The entire time I did not lose it once, they were having a blast, I was having fun and we got a boat load of xp from everything dying so fast. All I did was hit my AoE and single taunt everytime it was available(ensure your skills are upgraded as well), now get this, just as a test, I wanted to see if I could get away with doing nothing but taunt/auto attack and see if I could hold aggro, the magical answer is yes. I didn't just try it, I tried it for an hour, not a single person even noticed I was not using any CA or spells. Why? Because they were too busy murdering the mob while it was looking at me(Which correct me if I'm wrong, but in that respect...it's our job). I finished every battle with approximately 95%+ power. Then I tried using attacks as well and found, things really didn't last long enough for me to use much in the first place so ended up around in the mid/high 80% power wise. Mind you I am level 57 so I am in the OP's range.  Afterwards we garbbed a second group and took down Broog the Banished (no big accomplishment) but once again, I was mt over a Paladin my equal and didn't lose aggro once. In fact, with the huge power drain from Broog, I did exactly as Armada told you which was waylay a manastone, which to be honest you should be using in any long term fight. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Didn't want to gripe at all today. I always see negative posts on playing a SK and very few positive ones. I thought it was appropriate to share mine since I am in the same tier as you. I had stopped playing before we got our major changes (8 months ago), recently came back and now I have to move in like a week and a half and when I come back in 3 months, I will most definitely pick my SK right back up. I love this class to death ever since EQ1, and if there any old schoolers out there who remember the early days of that know what it was liked to be truly gimped for a long time. Even so, the SK community has always thrived, adjusted, and challenged adversity with every bat that gets swung our way by simply adjusting tactics. That's what all classes have to do, not just us despite popular belief. If and when you switch to a Paladin, you will find yourself with a brand new set of problems, all classes have them. Obviously you are going to play what makes you happy and you should, it's your money.</DIV>

[Shadowwhip]

<DIV>What level are your spells and CAs? Adept 1 or better is a must.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Armor, weapons and shield must be top notch.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And most of all, stragedy. If your grouped with mega DPs and they are nuking the mob before you have agro IE you've taunted and turned the mob, the nukers will take the agro. Timing is everything. I have grouped w/ DPS that nuke the mob to heck before I get agro and then wonder why the mob destroys them. I have also grouped w/ DPS that hold their nuke until I taunt and turn the mob and we have gone through zones like a wildfire - no wipes and a good time had by all. Agro management is a group effort.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Regarding power, at lvl 50, power use was a pain but improving my armor, weapons and spells made it less of a problem. I also used lvl appropriate food/drink which helped as well. If your ending up OOP, increase your sta as Sta directly impacts your power pool. At 70, power isn't a big issue unless I'm chain pulling and even then, not so much.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <DIV>As far as betraying and becoming a pally - *shrug* it's up to you.</DIV> <DIV>I've heard that some Pallys have similar agro issues while others do not. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV></DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Beldin_]

<blockquote><hr> increase your sta as Sta directly impacts your power pool. At 70, power isn't a big issue unless I'm chain pulling and even then, not so much<hr></blockquote>Erm .. did i miss something ? Normally str increases power for all fighter classes andwisdom also for crusaders.Btw.: i heared about a powerdrain, when do we get it ? My SK is 51 at the moment <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Blaidd]

<DIV>Thanks for the info guys its appreciated. I may give my SK another chance. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>All my skills and spells are adept or higher and I am in Full Cobalt at the moment. I havent finished the Manastone HQ yet so ill make a point of doing that too and try tanking just using taunt to see how I do.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I havent played him much lately because of these issues so will give him a thorough testing this week and see how I manage.</DIV>

[Beldin_]

Manastone is an essential HQ that you really shoud do with every character <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Lord Montague]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Beldin_ wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> increase your sta as Sta directly impacts your power pool. At 70, power isn't a big issue unless I'm chain pulling and even then, not so much<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR><BR>Erm .. did i miss something ? Normally str increases power for all fighter classes and<BR>wisdom also for crusaders.<BR><BR>Btw.: i heared about a powerdrain, when do we get it ? My SK is 51 at the moment <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Mana Seive, level 52 ancient teaching.

[Shadowwhip]

<P>AFIK, Str increases HP, the amount of weight you can carry and melee damage, Sta - power, Int - spell damage, Wis - resists and Agi - avoidance for an SK. That's how I have always understood it and I rarely, if ever, have OOP or agro issues.</P> <P>But maybe I'm wrong and I'm not really able to royally tick off mobs like I have been  <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>You'll get Mana Sieve at 52 (power drain), Tap Veins at 55 (wicked awesome self heal), and Siphon Might at 58 (life tap) unless they changed it after I made my notes.</P> <P> </P>

[Durlinn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Shadowwhip wrote:<BR> <P>AFIK, Str increases HP, the amount of weight you can carry and melee damage, Sta - power, Int - spell damage, Wis - resists and Agi - avoidance for an SK. That's how I have always understood it and I rarely, if ever, have OOP or agro issues.</P> <P>But maybe I'm wrong and I'm not really able to royally tick off mobs like I have been  <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Umm, no, Str increases power pool, weight, and melee/ca damage. Sta is for hitpoints.

[Kazander13]

<DIV>Ok, here's the stat purposes for a SK:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Str: Strength determines how much you can carry, increases your melee damage and maximum power.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Agi: Improves your chance to avoid melee attack.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Sta: Stamina increases your maximum health.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Int: Increases the damage you can do with spells.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Wis: Wisdom improves your resists against spell damage and increases you maximum power.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This comes straight from the game itself. All you have to do to find out is move your cursor over each statistic and it will tell you how a certain one affects your class.</DIV>

[Kazander13]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Shadowwhip wrote:<BR> <P>AFIK, Str increases HP, the amount of weight you can carry and melee damage, Sta - power, Int - spell damage, Wis - resists and Agi - avoidance for an SK. That's how I have always understood it and I rarely, if ever, have OOP or agro issues.</P> <P>But maybe I'm wrong and I'm not really able to royally tick off mobs like I have been  <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>You'll get Mana Sieve at 52 (power drain), Tap Veins at 55 (wicked awesome self heal), and Siphon Might at 58 (life tap) unless they changed it after I made my notes.</P> <P> </P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Also Siphon Might is a Strength Tap, not life.

[Shadowwhip]

<P>It's obvious I switched max health and power. No idea why I did that except that Sta and Str are my top 2 stats, in that order.</P> <P>At any rate, sorry for any incorrect information, certainly wasn't my intent <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P> </P>

[Humuhumunukunukuapua]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Blaidd wrote:<BR> <DIV>Are any others doing this or can someone tell me that SK's can actually keep aggro better withought burning tons of power higher lvl? </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>As others have mentioned above, first and foremost, aggro is a group effort, so let groupmates know not to open up with nukes right off the bat.  This is especially true with SK's since our hate tends to build over time.  Once you get a good groove going, you can tell your groupmates to try to open up with nukes sooner to find that "sweet spot" in terms of rate of damage.  Other tips:</P> <P>1.) Upgrade the single, AOE (and possibly shield bash) taunts to Adept 3.  At 54 you get to pick the Master2 Blashphemy which many have picked and are happy with (though I went with the caress line since I already had Adept3).</P> <P>2.) If aggro tends to be a problem in the initial stages of a fight (before your hate can properly build), try casting the blessing line on yourself, then pull the mob.  Getting hit 5 times for a total of 1,000 damage while healing yourself will [Removed for Content] any mob off.</P> <P>3.) Complete an HO with the initial pull before groupmates open up, and continue to try to complete HOs with low power CA's.</P> <P>4.) Use siphon strength.  Not only does it [Removed for Content] off a mob, but it makes you stronger and increases your auto-attack damage</P> <P>5.) Use mana seive whenever it's up.  Not only do you gain power, but you [Removed for Content] off the mob.</P> <P>6.) Hit both taunts and the shield bash whenever they are up.  Kick I've heard also generates a fair amount of hate.</P> <P>*Edit* - Oh, and for the sake of being efficient, use the AOE taunt/disease debuff before using the single target taunt and shield bash to maximize the disease damage.  As a matter of fact, even soloing the AOE taunt/debuff should be used first to maximize damage.<BR></P><p>Message Edited by Humuhumunukunukuapua'a on <span class=date_text>05-22-2006</span> <span class=time_text>10:53 AM</span>

[pawnipt]

Doing fine with agro, we have two full time SK's in our guild and a part time Paladin.  Can do anything with the SK's that the paladin never does (does that make sense? just waking up here).  Even used to duel tank Tarinax with a guardian when it wasnt immune to disease.  Also we have a SK as one of the tanks for 3 princes.  Hell you could easly have a SK guild tank except for Tarinax atm.<div></div>

[Mistmoore-Milaga]

<div><blockquote><hr>Blaidd wrote:<div>I am seriousy considering betraying next patch and becoming a Paladin </div>...<hr></blockquote>Boo this man!</div>

[Diern]

You sir, are an insult to the Shadowknight class, you should have rolled a Paladin to begin with

[Blaidd]

<DIV>As I posted above Diernes now I have been given the advice from Other shadowknights I will be carrying on. If anyone is an insult to SK's its you flaming. Its a community in which we support each other. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>People with attitudes like your dont deserve the right of an opinion. LOL and reading your other posts shows your also a hypocrite as you have complained about aggro issues in more threads than I have posted total. Please get a life.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I started my Sk right when the game came out yet because of the issues I was having (doesnt help when your grouped on alts with guardians who can keep aggro effortlessly) and many others posting the issues with aggro control I started to get dissillusioned with the class. Thanks to the helpfull people here I am trying again with a different approach.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Blaidd on <span class=date_text>05-23-2006</span> <span class=time_text>07:11 AM</span>

[Diern]

<P>Actually I am not a hypocrite, I have been a dedicated Shadowknight player for around 6 years now in both games, it remains the only class I am dedicated too. Just because I complain just means I care about my class and wish to get it fixed. We have problems, and I have fought to get our agro issues addressed, I have not gone and played another class and i have not even contemplated it. </P> <P>There used to be an old and very widespread saying from EQ1 days. "If you have to ask Roll a Paladin". Dont take what I said to seriously. I said it in jest, if i offended you are the one that needs to get a life. :smileytongue: The Shadowknight is a class that usually takes a very certain type of player to stick it out, and this is where that saying came from, we also tend to be very proud and defensive of our class that has traditionally ALWAYS got the raw end of the stick.</P> <P>Im a Shadowknight, and Shadowknights are generally unpleasant and evil, get used to it. If you had ever browsed the Shadowknight.org forums of EQ1 you would see what im getting at. They were curt, sarcastic, harsh very intolerant, and unforgiving. They were also one of the best class boards I had ever seen for tactics and strategy. My attitude is somewhat of a nostalgic throwback to that. :robottongue:</P> <P>(PS im glad you have decided to try stick with it, our agro issues arent as they used to be, because we fought for it, and yes we still have problems but reliable agro is not impossible)</P> <P>Message Edited by Diernes on <SPAN class=date_text>05-24-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>01:07 PM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by Diernes on <span class=date_text>05-24-2006</span> <span class=time_text>01:18 PM</span>

[ssythe]

<P>Certain classes/group set ups will/can cause you to struggle.Sk is a fun class to play but is alot of work.Theres nothing wrong with stating our classes weaknesses and wanting them adressed.There is something wrong with turning a blind eye to them and saying all is well when its obviously not:p</P> <P>Hence all the agro threads:p</P>

[morningmists]

<DIV>yes agro management is a group effort, in otherwords if you're group's tank is an SK they have to hold the fek back ~more than any other tank~</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>hell what they offer to rogues in their stamina line of AAs is as good(ae taunt) or better(end line reactive taunt) than anything we get as a class ability</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Margen]

I have never understood Sony's thought process in giving rogues taunts, they are a combination dps/debuff (which any raider know they do very well) class not a tank class.  Sometimes I think Sony left common sense at the door.

[Lord Montague]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Margen wrote:<BR> I have never understood Sony's thought process in giving rogues taunts, they are a combination dps/debuff (which any raider know they do very well) class not a tank class.  Sometimes I think Sony left common sense at the door.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Because they are somewhat of a cross between fighter and scout.  Therefore, they can pseudo-tank in small group settings (but these are limited circumstances).

[Margen]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Lord Montague wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Margen wrote:<BR> I have never understood Sony's thought process in giving rogues taunts, they are a combination dps/debuff (which any raider know they do very well) class not a tank class.  Sometimes I think Sony left common sense at the door.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Because they are somewhat of a cross between fighter and scout.  Therefore, they can pseudo-tank in small group settings (but these are limited circumstances).<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Well I disagree on the fighter/scout bit, a brigand will be in top 5 of most fights (range fights even better) and increases the dps for the entire raid with their debuffs.  </P> <P>Plus there are six tanks competing for tanking slots in groups, which means that it should not be difficult to get a tank in group.  </P> <P>Not a huge deal, but I still think its stupid on sonys part.  Can't do a thing about it, but still think its stupid.</P>

[Lord Montague]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Margen wrote:<BR> <P><BR>Well I disagree on the fighter/scout bit, a brigand will be in top 5 of most fights (range fights even better) and increases the dps for the entire raid with their debuffs.  </P> <P>Plus there are six tanks competing for tanking slots in groups, which means that it should not be difficult to get a tank in group.  </P> <P>Not a huge deal, but I still think its stupid on sonys part.  Can't do a thing about it, but still think its stupid.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Well, that's why I said...and this is a keyword here...<STRONG>somewhat</STRONG>.  And I never mentioned raid either, which is just a completely different game.  Not every ability has to have use within the context of raid.  What I am saying is that there may be some scenarios where, hey, there's no tank, but these things are fairly easy...let this rogue here take care of it!  Hence, those do not come up very often and are quite limited.  But that doesn't make it invalid.  Rather than chalk it up as stupid, I try to see the logic behind it.  /shrug</P> <P>Rogues are scouts, yet the get taunts and even some buffs that makes them somewhat..fighter-like.  Much like how we are fighters, but we get spells and rely on them quite a bit to do damage (and some will use the term hybrid).</P> <P>But...what was the OP about?  Oh yeah...cookies!</P><p>Message Edited by Lord Montague on <span class=date_text>05-26-2006</span> <span class=time_text>02:35 PM</span>