Would you give up ...................

[G1Joe]

<DIV>HT/MT/RT (whatever it is after that <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>for decent damage decent taunts aoe stun/interrupt? castable root? higher lifetaps?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>all of the above?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I know I would.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Certainly things have improved with MT master II and Doom Judgement but damage output for SK seems seriously poor for me.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Anyone enlighten me as to how or if things improve?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Just to add I play Nagafen so some of my comments are tainted by that.</DIV>

[Ultimatum]

in a word.... No.the HT line is one of the defining SK spells and I wouldnt give it up for anything....you wil understand when you get into T7 and can H things for 12K+as for damage output, we really start to excell around lvl 50+ especially if you get your spell crits up from your INT AA line.  aside from some bruisers and monks, SKs have the highest DPS output of all the fighter classes, and some mage/scout classes as well.  It all depends on how you gear your SK and how well you work with others in your group/raid.<div></div>

[Lord Montague]

<P>I wouldn't give it up either.  To me it comes down what do you <STRONG>really</STRONG> want?  A shadowknight?  Or a guardian?</P>

[espmrred]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Lord Montague wrote:<BR> <P>I wouldn't give it up either.  To me it comes down what do you <STRONG>really</STRONG> want?  A shadowknight?  Or a guardian?</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>that's what i was about to say, from the list given it sounds like the OP wants to be a guardian more than a SK.

[pawnipt]

Harm Touch is like a second rescue... use it wisely and it will come in handy for sure.If you want to do DPS as a SK you need to cap your INT and STR, get some hostile spell proc gear and on mele attack proc gear... and you will become one hell of a battlemage, with pretty high DPS.... I usually out DPS the scouts n wizards in our raids ( with the help of a couple buffs from a coercer.)<div></div>

[Kelkirra]

<P>O_O</P> <P>You would give up HT??!!?? Dude, do yourself a favor and reroll man. HT is the defining spell of our class. It's what makes us so feirce and unpredicitable in fights/duels.</P> <P>If you want what you have said, roll a warrior, seriously.</P>

[Kryptonix]

HELL NO!!HT FTW!!!<div></div>

[G1Joe]

<P>Maybe it is because im only currently lvl 37 as mentioned things do seem to be getting slightly better but I have a feeling of uslessness for 14 minutes whilst I wait for MT to become available again. Maybe this is exagerated by being on a PVP server I dont know.</P> <P>You guys seem awfully attached to the spell, maybe if other skills were upgraded and HT downgraded a touch you might not feel that way? </P> <P>If I have HT up and someone around my level decides to stay and fight, they die simple, however if the spell is not up then I have no chance that is my experience so far.</P> <P>Maybe things will improve I guess I will find out as I am not re-rolling SK appeals to me.</P> <P> </P> <P>oh and as for this u wanna be a guardian nonsense no I dont, I think that by making Lifetaps more powerful giving an aoe lifetap would help stuff like that? who knows maybe at 60-70 upgrading a SK with that would make them too powerful I dunno.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P> </P><p>Message Edited by G1Joe on <span class=date_text>04-20-2006</span> <span class=time_text>04:03 AM</span>

[Uggli]

ahhh a PvPer.... that's your problem.SoE has shown it's inability to balance PvP in yet another MMO.SK's do get AE life tap in the 50's. Life taps and reactive tap wards are very powerful, even at lower levels. SK's do just fine as a tank class in PvP with out HT.  You just have to get some skill other than pushing the "I win" button.   If you find your self dependant on that and only that, I suggest you spend some time learning the other abilities of your class.<div></div>

[Cherring]

<DIV>Fellow 39 SK Nagafen PvPer here:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I know what the OP is talking about. The PvP is not balanced right now, so at our level the PvP only lasts a few seconds, and its whoever can deliver the big DD right at the beginning that wins the fight.</DIV> <DIV>Setups that work for PvE will not work for PvP. My SK is unstoppable in PvE, especially since my wife plays one too! We make quite the tag team. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In PvP though, since most of our dmg is DoTs, we tend to lose alot if HT line is not up. Also, mitigation doesn't really count for much. Players even conned go right through it. I tried the sword n board for a while, but against DPS its no different than 1hander in how quick you die.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I think I am gonna start a thread dedicated to SK PvP so we can experiment and collectively find good setups.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Oh, and to answer to original post:</DIV> <DIV>I would take reduced PvP damage output of the HT line, if we could cast on the run again.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Cherring71 on <span class=date_text>04-20-2006</span> <span class=time_text>06:45 AM</span>

[G1Joe]

<DIV>thanx for that input</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>PVE is as I said definately improving and in the long run PVP may well do so.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>to talk about relying on an IWIN button in rubbish without it my damage is Crap like I said im only 37 and you uber level 70's geared to the hilt in duels my do just fine without it but so far my experience is that SK's lose without HT to most classes on a PVP server.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I have come from PVP servers in WoW more recently but spent a looong time on Mordred and although I was certainly not the best pvper I was not awful at it either.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And agreed certainly on Nag casting on the move or castable snare would help a great deal, but im sure a lot of other classes would say that.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><p>Message Edited by G1Joe on <span class=date_text>04-20-2006</span> <span class=time_text>07:13 AM</span>

[Kelkirra]

<P>The PvP servers are not balanced at all. I stopped playing them due to this issue alone. I don't have as much faith as some of my fellow comrads on SoE fixing known issues as they have yet to prove themselves on this in the past. =/ As far as relying on HT for everything, any SK that relies on HT and HT alone to save his bum isn't playing the class properly. I use HT as a tool to possibly turn the tide or as a bonus blast of damage with I get tired of looking at a mobs health.</P> <P>Yes, the HT line is powerful but it has lost some of it's damage since LU13 for a good reason. A decrease in the refreash time made it a bit more useful in pratical situations. And I would see giving up some damage in PvP for our ability to cast on the run again. From my understanding the game is sort-of based around the RP factor of the different classes and the one defining feature of the Crusaders was our ability to fight on horseback charging at our foes. Why SoE ever took this away from the crusader class is still a mystery to me. =/</P>

[Margen]

<DIV>I guess I will go against the grain on this one, I don't think HT is our definning ability.  An attack you can use every 15 mins for a damage between 6k to 10k, nice yes but any dps class will be able to beat that.  I personnaly would like to see our lifetaps bumped a bit, thats more improtant in tanking then HT imo.  Yes HT can be another rescue, but if a mage screws up and over aggros it still won't always pull the mob off.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Don't get me wrong HT is nice geewiz type spell, but its not really a dps tool due to time contraints and depending on it for aggro can be problamatic due to wide range of damage and time factor again.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Just my opinion.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Mmaster]

<blockquote><hr>Margen wrote:<div>I guess I will go against the grain on this one, I don't think HT is our definning ability.  An attack you can use every 15 mins for a damage between 6k to 10k, nice yes but any dps class will be able to beat that.  I personnaly would like to see our lifetaps bumped a bit, thats more improtant in tanking then HT imo.  Yes HT can be another rescue, but if a mage screws up and over aggros it still won't always pull the mob off.</div> <div> </div> <div>Don't get me wrong HT is nice geewiz type spell, but its not really a dps tool due to time contraints and depending on it for aggro can be problamatic due to wide range of damage and time factor again.</div> <div> </div> <div>Just my opinion.</div> <div> </div><hr></blockquote>Of course... I disagree entirely, this is another rescue with a huge range.<div></div>

[Baynne]

SK is not a DPS class... however we do more DPS than a pally and some other tanks, but it is not our primary role.  HT is a huge bonus to our limited DPS, and to me the fact that it can be used every 15 minutes rocks.  in EQ1 it is still 72 mins/ 1 game day.   i may be a lowbie SK - 27 - but so far i have had no trouble holding aggro with caress and taunts.  and when someone does take aggro from me, even if it is a pet.. i've been known to FD them to get it back.  if i were to give up my HT, pallies would have to give up their LoH, and if you ask them, i bet a lot of them like that ability the way most of us like our HT <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Kelkirra]

<P>I am going to disagree with you. As a lvl 70 SK that does raid I can tell you that we CAN DPS. If geared right increasing your INT and STR and following the INT and STR AA lines, you can dish out almost as much damage as some of the higher t2 and lower t1 DPS. Now, do not get me wrong, we can tank as well, we can also play the utility role. This is the strength of our class my friend. On most of my guilds raids I play the MA/OT, which I usually don't have to do a lot of and can just straight up DPS, due to the flexibility of my class. Do not limit yourself to just pure tanking and do not underestimate the capability of HT. This ability can be used as a second rescue and a boost to DPS. </P> <P>Example, we fought Sunchild not to long back and they used me, a zerker and a guardian to tank him for the memwipe. He memwiped, the defiler had warded at the same time he memwiped. Neither the guardian, the zerker or the pally could pull agro off with rescue, hell, I couldn't pull agro off with rescue. I used HT with a combo of the deagro from the defiler and voila, instant agro on the SK. </P> <P>It's a well rounded class, as you will come to see the higher lvl you obtain. No class in the game truly shines IMO untill after lvl 50.</P>

[Baynne]

<DIV>occasional DPS is completely different from being a DPS class.  i never said we couldnt DPS.. it just isnt our primary role.  like you said, we can do many things, personally i created SK to be able to tank and do some decent DPS.  not even sure ill ever see raid content in this game to be perfectly honest.  so far i have 1 point set in the int line... not sure if i will go all the way down, but that is the subject of another thread im sure <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  i too believe no class truely shines til 50+... the hard part for me is getting there in between work and EQ1 raids heh.</DIV>