Putting the shadow into shadowknight..

[IronCoff]

My very first thread got turned into something other than what I inteded it to be (dare I say hi-jacked >_< ) so I'll try to spark some discussion about the SK visuals over here. Since all warriors and crusaders look like each other, and shadowknights should be the coolest kids on the block (Ha! Take that monks =p ) could we get something like the necro Lich spell (maybe Lucan's Pact?) that gives us shadowy, dark, evil flames? Or even just a darkish aura? A model swap to the overused skeleton or zombie is a bit boring I think. =( Speaking of shadows and zombies.. look at the description of the tainted sacrament spell. Doesn't it strike you as very odd that the pet doesn't use the shadowed man graphics? (A shadowknight summoning a soul to fight for him.. a shadowed man jumping out of a shadowy swirl to fight... that's not half bad =) ) Can we get a fun spell that imbues our weapons with a dark colored glow? (Red, green, blue..anything.. as long as it is of a darker tone and not super shiny.) And finally, the unholy steed. How about putting an overlay with oscillating transparency on it? The overlay texture could use any of the spell effects already in the game. (Just one gripe about actual gameplay mechanics, why can't we buy a Master I scroll for several plats to upgrade our horsie to full speed?) The splitpaw pets (warthogs, I think) have particle emitters attached to their necks/backs. I am sure every single SK would love to see their unholy steeds with the same flame effects. As I said before, I am not really concerned with the gameplay side of things (EQ2 does almost everything in the opposite direction of what I'd expect anyway. I just go with the flow.) it is the concept of the SK that keeps me playing. While some players absolutely don't care about the visuals as long as they see the numbers they like, I assume even they wouldn't mind if SKs looked like SKs. Everything I mentioned above is already in the game, so no new art assets need to be created. What are your thoughts? Does the dev team ever listen to players? (I am new, so I don't know how things work here. o_O ) <div></div>

[SaraBH]

Im with you on all this except the horse. I want to see this spell changed to include an illusion that turns any horse we ride to look like a nightmare. At lvl 20 it was fun to sit on and look bad. but later i wanted to get places and busting out my lame horse just dont cut it. If we could make any horse we buy look like a nightmare it would make the spell good for ever. It is sposs to be somthing we can use forever to make us look cool. What half respecting Knight has 2 horses one for speed and one to look cool. In EQ1 SK/Pally horses were the fastest in game. But you dident get it till way late in game. I for one would have waited.

[vwlsskng]

<P>I couldn't agree more. Shadow Knights should achieve the aesthetic of evil to a higher degree than any other class. As of now, every plate class looks identical with the only way of differentiating them being the types of items that they can equip (i.e., you know that someone with a tower shield isn't a Shadow Knight). And that's rather dismaying. Part of the reward of playing a class should be a unique look. EQL's first expansion, <EM>Ruins of Kunark</EM>, had it right when they added class armour (i.e., Blood Ember, Cobalt, etc.) and epic weapons. It was nice to see each class given something that only they could wear. This time around the designers are a little too hellbent on the equality of aesthetics. I don't understand why.</P>

[MadTexan]

<BLOCKQUOTE> <P></P> <HR> IronCoffin wrote: <P>Doesn't it strike you as very odd that the pet doesn't use the shadowed man graphics?<BR>(A shadowknight summoning a soul to fight for him.. a shadowed man jumping out of a shadowy swirl to fight... that's not half bad =) )</P> <HR> <P>The rest I agree with, but no, I don't want a shadowed man as a pet. Those things look like a one of those ashtrays that people make their first week in ceramics class and don't look intimidating at all.</P></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>

[Rylight]

<P>I think what he means by the shadowmen as a pet is the whole idea that it is mysterious and exist in its own world of shadow, therefore making it scary. people fear things they dont understand and a creature surrounded in a mysterious vale of darkness and shadow is what I think the essense of the sk pet should be.</P> <P>anyways, what really concerns me is that all tank classes in the long run look either "good" or "evil"  I mean, any tank who knows how to wear armor is probably going to end with full pristine ebon armor, and even the goody goody paladins. honestly sk's look pretty good in it, but the fact that the other tanks can wear it ,even the good ones, kinda make me sick. and if you go past ebon and get your dragon quest armor (I think thats what it is) you get pure white/silver looking armor, and dont get me wrong, this armor looks really cool, but an sk wearing pure white?? anyways simple solution, make our spells graphical and not just all about buffs and stats</P> <P>example. the description of unholy aura is something like the sk "being sorrouned in a vale of unholy shadows" or something like, so I thought when i got this spell and used it I would be surrounded in a dark aura or something, turns out it just increases your buff, and thats it. and lucans pact?? im sorry but im a 7ft iksar with sharp death and deadly claws and tail, I dont feel very powerful when I turn into a 5ft human skeleton with no meat on it. I just turn on the spell and turn the graphic off (hide_illusion)  I see a defiler spell with something like purple flames surrounding it (even though they have no face when this spell is active) I want something like that but black (and of course with the face)</P> <P>now the horse, I honestly like the upgrade from the brown pack mule, and I definitly dont want a skelly horse, or a half dead horse!!! it would decay and collapse right under me.. however what would be nice is the additon of glowing red eye's like the hell hound or the splitpaw boars. it would also be nice to upgrade this spell so it actually does have runspeed bonuses (and yes I will pay a plate or two for it) as long as it kept looking dark as it does now.</P> <P>honeslty in Eq1 I didnt mind being half necro, it was stated that thats what we were, but in EQ2 they stated we are no longer a hybrid class, and with that said I dont want any skeletons for pets or decaying ideas tossed into the mix, im not a necro ,,,, well,,,, anymore</P>

[Gigglet]

<P>I really like my unholy steed just the way it is. I mean it allready looks way different than the pally horse. A blood red mane and a black steed looks pretty dam nice on an SK. I think if we ask for it to be to flashy, you will have other classes screaming at us again.  I mean think of how many other classes have useless fluff spells.  Like my fury, she can make the monsters turn a green fire. </P> <P><img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <DIV>As far as our "pets" go, I do think we need something different than the used up zombie graphic. I do however think it's better than the chicken.  Granted the chicken was far and away different than the necro pets.  Although in my opinion, it was far from evil.  Don't even get my started on the dam booger pet either, lol.  All in all I think they are making SKs better on beta.  When they come to live I hope the more important issues are fixed.  The cosmetic changes I can wait for.  If they never come, so be it.  Least I will be more viable when it comes to being in a group and more wanted. The fluff can come later.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[vTenebr]

<div></div><span><blockquote><hr>vwlssknght wrote:<p>I couldn't agree more. Shadow Knights should achieve the aesthetic of evil to a higher degree than any other class. As of now, every plate class looks identical with the only way of differentiating them being the types of items that they can equip (i.e., you know that someone with a tower shield isn't a Shadow Knight). And that's rather dismaying. Part of the reward of playing a class should be a unique look. EQL's first expansion, <em>Ruins of Kunark</em>, had it right when they added class armour (i.e., Blood Ember, Cobalt, etc.) and epic weapons. It was nice to see each class given something that only they could wear. This time around the designers are a little too hellbent on the equality of aesthetics. I don't understand why.</p> <div></div><hr></blockquote>EQ1 had class armor prior to Kunark from Plane of Fear and Plane of Hate. My SK was decked out in her full suit of umbral armor (a deep, matte black colour) and had her 1 handed scythe from Innorruuk before Kunark came to pass.  She looked *vicious*.  Warriors had indicolate (a light tan colour), Paladins had velorium (pale blue), and clerics had whatever it was.. that purple stuff. I did love the look of the Blood Ember, though.  When we were able to tint our armors, I kept that colour.  It was so deliciously evil. As for the steed.  I love the look, but I never use him any more.  I gave up that look for 40% speed :/  I only wish I could have, somehow, kept the graphic for my steed while getting the run buff for the 40% horse.  I'd pay the fee!  I'll PAY for the 40%.. just let me keep the graphic for my Unholy Steed <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></span><div></div><p>Message Edited by vTenebrae on <span class=date_text>09-02-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:45 AM</span>

[IronCoff]

<div></div><div></div><span><blockquote><hr>SaraBH wrote: I want to see this spell changed to include an illusion that turns any horse we ride to look like a nightmare.<div></div><hr></blockquote>Nice idea.Implementing a master I scroll for the steed would be probably easier, but an "Unholy Blessing" for the horsies would be fun to use.(Imagine being able to buff your teammates' horses as well. The blessing could grant water walking .. ok I have gone too far for now =( )</span><div></div><p>Message Edited by IronCoffin on <span class=date_text>09-02-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:52 PM</span>

[MadTexan]

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> vTenebrae wrote:<BR> <P><SPAN>As for the steed.  I love the look, but I never use him any more.  I gave up that look for 40% speed :/  I only wish I could have, somehow, kept the graphic for my steed while getting the run buff for the 40% horse.  I'd pay the fee!  I'll PAY for the 40%.. just let me keep the graphic for my Unholy Steed <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></SPAN></P> <HR> <P>Same desire here. I'm primarily an RPer so I would even settle for being able to upgrade the Unholy Steed model to include flaming hooves, etc. by quest even if it wouldn't be useable with the faster horses.</P> <P> </P></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>

[Rylight]

<P>sadly im lvl 44 and still use the unholy steed over the parade horse. however I'm not sure If I do it for the pride of the dark look, or just because im to cheap to fork over the plat:smileyvery-happy:</P> <P> </P>

[Sinuvil]

<DIV> Definitely agree with the idea of these posts. Though I might not agree with all the ideas I really want more flavor and just fun things that make the ShadowKnight look more what the name implies. Evil.</DIV>

[Giral]

hopefully after this combat re-vamp goes live  the Bored Development team instead of starting on there next combat re-vamp ; ( can do a complete character re-vamp to realy seperate the classes and give all are skills,armour, items actual class defining attributes so when your walkin thru a town you can at a glance see an Sk comin or tell a Wizard from a Warlock Or an Assasin from a Ranger 

[Lashanach]

<span><blockquote><hr>MadTexan wrote:<div></div> <blockquote> <p></p> <hr> IronCoffin wrote: <p>Doesn't it strike you as very odd that the pet doesn't use the shadowed man graphics?(A shadowknight summoning a soul to fight for him.. a shadowed man jumping out of a shadowy swirl to fight... that's not half bad =) )</p> <hr> <p>The rest I agree with, but no, I don't want a shadowed man as a pet. Those things look like a one of those ashtrays that people make their first week in ceramics class and don't look intimidating at all.</p></blockquote> <div></div><hr></blockquote>have you ever fought a shadowed man up close? tanked one in first person view? they look VERY scarey, the "ashtray" turns on it's side and the upper half od a demon comes out,, I for one agree this would make a MUCH better pet then the glob of goo</span><div></div>

[Gigglet]

<P>LOL first time I saw them, I thought it was the Tidy Bowl Man from HELL!  I mean can you imagine the plunger you would need for that sucker!</P> <P><img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P>

[IronCoff]

What made me like the shadowed men was (other than the name) the fact that we only get to see half of their bodies coming out of the whirling shadow aura thing. It works. =) It is actually quite sad that a whole year after a game's launch (which is after years and years of development and pre-production preceeding that) there is no coherent set of visuals for each class. It makes baby skeletons cry. <div></div>

[MadTexan]

<BLOCKQUOTE> <P></P> <HR> Lashanachar wrote: <P><SPAN>have you ever fought a shadowed man up close? tanked one in first person view? they look VERY scarey, the "ashtray" turns on it's side and the upper half od a demon comes out,, I for one agree this would make a MUCH better pet then the glob of goo</SPAN><BR></P> <HR> <P>Aye, I have killed plenty of them to date, and I have fought them in first person. However, even once those ashtrays turn on their side and you can can see that there is some sort of head and arms inside, there is still very little detail to see. This is with  a high end graphics card, with resolutions set to near max and appropriate lighting options enabled.</P> <P>Don't get me wrong--I don't care for the blobs of goo, either--but I don't want shadowed men as pets. If we can't get something cool like the ghost dogs from Nek Castle I would rather have the blob of goo than an ashtray, though.</P></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>

[Margen]

<P>Ghost dogs would be cool, although I still love my idea of using Nightbloods.  Remember the first time I saw the named Nightblood that pops in Nek castle when you do the sisters quest, SOB scared the crap out of me when he poped LOL.  The Shadowmen I've seen kind of looks like floating clams to me, so they really don't do much for me.  Just my opinion.</P> <P>V/R</P> <P>Blackoath</P>

[VengeanceX]

<DIV>I actually thought the development team were on the right track with the original pets although they could have used a few tweaks.  I believe the concept they were going for was that we steal a piece of someone's soul and then use it against them (or other creatures).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The first pet being a blob was supposed to represent the fact that although we can call upon a tainted soul to fight for us, we did not yet have the control to shape it into a form that pleases us.  The second being being a spectral hawk was to show that we now have more control over the soul we summon.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I thought this was a really good concept and I would have liked to see them stick with it.  Firstly, I am of the belief that all of the pets should have been spectral (or ghostly if you prefer), after all we are talking about souls here rather than corpses (which is a necromancer specialty anyway, not a Shadow Knight one).  I would have still gone with an "unshaped" pet to start with, although a spectral one.  Shin Ree Essences and Ashland Wisps spring to mind.  The second pet, while spectral, did not feel in character for a Shadow Knight to me.  I would have gone with a spectral shriller (bat) for this pet.  It is still a flying creature, about the same size but a little more intimidating, with ties to vampirism in lore that fits better with Shadow Knight abilities (i.e. lifetaps etc).  Then the new pet we get in the expansion pack could have continued this theme by taking the shape of a spectal hound (Eidolon Watchdogs from Nektropos Castle).  They could have also experimented with swarms of weaker pets for a different kind of visual effect.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I personally think that going back to a skeleton pet is a cop out.  It reinforces the old EQ1 concept of the Shadow Knight as a hybrid warrior/necromancer instead of the new divine/unholy warrior concept of EQ2.  This is not a technical problem though, it is purely perception as our abilities are still unique and not related to those of a necromancer.</DIV><p>Message Edited by VengeanceX on <span class=date_text>09-05-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:58 PM</span>

[PhozFa]

<div></div><hr>VengeanceX:I personally think that going back to a skeleton pet is a cop out.  It reinforces the old EQ1 concept of the Shadow Knight as a hybrid warrior/necromancer instead of the new divine/unholy warrior concept of EQ2.  This is not a technical problem though, it is purely perception as our abilities are still unique and not related to those of a necromancer.<hr>Yea i think the skele lacked creativity. Don't take this post as a whine. When i logged on beta and realized our graphic was changed i was happy and sad at the same time. Skele is better than the bird but still very ordinary. Atleast a 20 necro (i think 20) gets an orc skele warlock and at 50 I have the same ordinary human skele we had in EQ1 along with necros. Atleast give the skele armor and a weapon. Does SOE read our boards? I don't think so cause over the past 9 months or so we have come up with how many ideas for a new pet and they gave us a skele. I hope they gave us the average human skele because it was a last minute thing.<div></div>

[SonnyA]

<P>Not that I'm against this thread or anything, but I think you would get better response in the Graphics and Art forum. Since that's being monitored by the artsy people.</P> <P><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board?board.id=grph" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board?board.id=grph</A></P>

[Gigglet]

<P>Trust me it has been, by tons of people, me included.</P> <P><img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P>

[Sir Draymon]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> PhozFate wrote:<BR> <HR> Atleast give the skele armor and a weapon. <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>There are 2 mobs in the zone near timber falls (cant think of it, where you get the vampire illusion), one is flesh draped knight (not sure how to link pictures so ill describe it) basic skel model with chest, boots, left hand, forearms and  the right shoulder armour pieces on (armour is black similar to ebon) with a 2h sword.  The other is flesh draped swordsman, same look as other but with helm and 1hs/shield replaces 2h sword.  I personally think one (or either) would look good as a sk pet.</DIV>

[far]

<DIV>My two bits is changing the skin of your pet should be a time consuming money sink quest (say 25g) and allow for a multitude of differant skins, if you want a nightblood pet you have to go do some demonic lil quest that has you run around kill a few uncommon named collect some subcomponets (nightblood vial of blood hoof etc) combine them through ts (the special recipe where you could get em).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Just have the TS recipes have an icon of what the final pet would look like when clicked and you are set, plus it would allow a simple combine of a few silver to cycle through your collected pokemonish type list of pets. (hence to screw around with the level 26 pet would require a level 26 trade skill level and the 40 pet the level 40  trade skill, allow the trade skillers to do the quests and put them on the market, id prolly buy a plat worth or 2 of skins because im too lazy to do the quests myself.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The skin change would have 0 effect on the pets ability or stats just give alternate skins that allow the player an illusion of customization.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>my 2 bits keep the change.</DIV>

[Margen]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> farbe wrote:<BR> <DIV>My two bits is changing the skin of your pet should be a time consuming money sink quest (say 25g) and allow for a multitude of differant skins, if you want a nightblood pet you have to go do some demonic lil quest that has you run around kill a few uncommon named collect some subcomponets (nightblood vial of blood hoof etc) combine them through ts (the special recipe where you could get em).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Just have the TS recipes have an icon of what the final pet would look like when clicked and you are set, plus it would allow a simple combine of a few silver to cycle through your collected pokemonish type list of pets. (hence to screw around with the level 26 pet would require a level 26 trade skill level and the 40 pet the level 40  trade skill, allow the trade skillers to do the quests and put them on the market, id prolly buy a plat worth or 2 of skins because im too lazy to do the quests myself.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The skin change would have 0 effect on the pets ability or stats just give alternate skins that allow the player an illusion of customization.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>my 2 bits keep the change.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>That is a really cool idea ... Give you 5 stars if I could LOL.  Course I am a alchy as well as a Sk, so would be a win/win for me LOL.  Nice idea!!!</P> <P>Blackoath</P>