Recent patch changes to SK

[Exmortis_MT]

<DIV>Any tester have the line on the newest changes to us?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Big posts on guards forums, they received massive changes again, both up and down.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Woudl love to hear from our testing brothers.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Elymri]

<P>aye ive heard rumours thats alot has been changed again .. info pls <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </P> <P><EM>edit - forgot to mention that i did hear from a sk beta tester that the damage of dreadfull wrath is back to its original value but .. its on a 60 second recast timer now </EM></P> <p>Message Edited by Elymrish on <span class=date_text>08-15-2005</span> <span class=time_text>05:43 PM</span>

[megatra]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Elymrish wrote:<BR> <P>aye ive heard rumours thats alot has been changed again .. info pls <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </P> <P><EM>edit - forgot to mention that i did hear from a sk beta tester that the damage of dreadfull wrath is back to its original value but .. its on a 60 second recast timer now </EM></P> <P>Message Edited by Elymrish on <SPAN class=date_text>08-15-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>05:43 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>That's even worse. Hate to say it but I'd rather have it with low damage and an interrupt on a short recast then high damage, no interrupt, and long recast.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Giral]

<P>how do you get on test ? and do you need a free toon slot or would i have to delete one of my present ones ? </P> <P> </P>

[MadTexan]

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Giralus wrote:<BR> <P>how do you get on test ? and do you need a free toon slot or would i have to delete one of my present ones ?</P> <HR> <P>There is a thread on the test forum with good instructions for getting set up to play on Test. You can't have characters copied or moved to Test, but you do get a new set of slots to use there.</P></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>

[PhozFa]

I'm too lazy to take a screen shot but i can confirmed that Dreadful Wrath does the following Power - 119 Casting Time - 2.0 Recovery time - 0.5 Recast Time - 1 minute *Inflicts 363-604 damage on target *Cast Snare on termination. Lasts for 24 seconds     *Slows target by 48% Also this is the master 1 version <div></div>

[PhozFa]

that screenshot of our new spells said despoiling mist was a debuff for 600. Well i don't know if it was changed but at adept3 i can debuff for 1050. Thats only a 200 nerf or so? still a nerf but isn't half <div></div>

[PhozFa]

<div></div>hehe me again sorry for the multi posts but i keep seeing changes. this time its with Insidious Whisper(adept3) Increase threat by 493-603 every 3 seconds Increase health of target by 26-32 every 3 seconds. spell lasts for 9 seconds <div></div><p>Message Edited by PhozFate on <span class=date_text>08-17-2005</span> <span class=time_text>02:54 AM</span>

[Draq]

<span><blockquote><hr>PhozFate wrote:<div></div>hehe me again sorry for the multi posts but i keep seeing changes. this time its with Insidious Whisper(adept3) Increase threat by 493-603 every 3 seconds Increase health of target by 26-32 every 3 seconds. spell lasts for 9 seconds <div></div><p>Message Edited by PhozFate on <span class="date_text">08-17-2005</span> <span class="time_text">02:54 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote>Wow sounds alot better than 130 every 3 sec <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> But does it really INcrease health of the mob or is it another lifetap spell now?</span><div></div>

[IBSomnifer]

<P>I hope he means the casters health...meaning us.  If not sony is 1 sick puppy....but we knew that already lol.  The change to dreadful wrath is a shame.  I agree...i'd rather have it do less damage with interupt then a 60 second recast.  Our damage is already nerf by the loss of plague sword....don't ruin it more!.  We are slowly running out of this to do during a fight.  I'm afraid i'll be falling asleep before they finally die.</P> <P>fyi.  long fights don't make the game more interesting or fun.  Don't make this game like EQ1. Slow lvling doesn't make people want to stick around.</P>

[PhozFa]

I also wanna mention about the despoiling mist nerf. Mitigation values are way diffrent. Pristine ebon bp has only 200-300 and yet my mit% itself went up with the combat changes. But aviodance went down equally about. Just looking at the numbers despoiling mist still equals a few ebon bps worth of debuffs. But the bad part is the recast time is about 30-40 seconds longer than the duration. so you can't keep it on 100% of the time. Hope that helps you guys on live <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <div></div>

[Exmortis_MT]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> PhozFate wrote:<BR>I also wanna mention about the despoiling mist nerf. Mitigation values are way diffrent. Pristine ebon bp has only 200-300 and yet my mit% itself went up with the combat changes. But aviodance went down equally about. Just looking at the numbers despoiling mist still equals a few ebon bps worth of debuffs. But the bad part is the recast time is about 30-40 seconds longer than the duration. so you can't keep it on 100% of the time. Hope that helps you guys on live <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Thank you for making a point i have been trying too.  what we are seeing are just random numbers, they mean NOTHING on their own.  Until you see what the entire changes are, they are not nerfs, or increaes, simply numbers.  But once seen in regards to the changes as a whole, some times lower numbers can mean they are even more effective now then before.</P> <P>remember, DPS is WAY down accross the board, thus our attacks look weak, but we are a head of all the plate classes if every thing else is equal, so taken in that regard, our numbers are pretty good.</P> <P>Everything i see from the revamp, to me points to a better game, where blindly mashing keys will not get you a win anymore.  Thats a good thing.</P> <P> </P>

[Marvolo62442]

Not only is DPS down across the board - but so are mob hitpoints. Many fights are actually taking less time than before, even though you are doing less damage.

[Pheeb]

<div></div><div></div>I still can't believe how much dreadful wrath got nerfed...so sad.. <div></div><p>Message Edited by Pheebau on <span class=date_text>08-18-2005</span> <span class=time_text>04:33 PM</span>

[Giral]

<DIV>Exmortis said " remember, DPS is WAY down accross the board, thus our attacks look weak, but we are a head of all the plate classes if every thing else is equal, so taken in that regard, our numbers are pretty good."</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>does this mean Sk's are the best dps tanks? or we are ahead of all the plate tanks in? </DIV> <DIV>and if we are in front of all the plate tanks doing DPs (we should be) do we have any proof of this?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>and what does "if everything else is equal" mean?</DIV>

[SaraBH]

zerkers are sposs to be better dps then us still

[Marvolo62442]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> SaraBH wrote:<BR> zerkers are sposs to be better dps then us still<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Actually, Zerkers are supposed to be about equal with us. (We're in the same DPS bracket).</DIV>

[PhozFa]

After playing with the combat changes for a week now i have come up with this. At first i was nervous hearing about our dps nerf. Yea that was nerfed and it sucked but we did gain defense like promised. I can't test it on a raid but i can tell i can take alot more of a beating. your weapon set up along with what you put in your con slots makea a huge diffrence therefor requires you to know more about your toon to be effective. Every part of fighting has changed so numbers and me telling you as much as i can won't give you the full picture. Like yea our avoid went down alot but mobs parry less, therefor we take less reposite damage. Overall i'm having fun with them and the fights may be a little longer but i feel as if i have more options and choices going into a fight. Only beef i can come up with is the fact that fights take a little longer. Still things are still changing so what i say now doesn't mean it'll be like this on live. i thought Moor was full of it after hearing him say "you need to experience it yourself" like 500 times but yea ahes right. Don't jump the gun if you haven't been on Test/Beta like everything in a MMO everyone has mixed opinions. <div></div>

[Rylight]

<P>43 sk here that has been having a great time playing EQ2, and I just need to say, PHOZFATE <STRONG>thank you for the most intelligent post I have heard in a long time regarding the combat revamp.</STRONG></P> <P>over and over agian All I hear is nothing but dread and pesimistic post!!!! honestly I havent had to much compliants with the SK that is on live right now. sure we do have power problems and some broken spells, but I am lvl 43 (combat exp disabled by choice) and I tank GREAT, and have never had a problem finding a group and keeping them alive (except for that time when we had that bad healer, but what group doesnt have that "bad healer" story??)</P> <P>anyways I hear we are getting a skele pet now, kinda dissappointed actually. I mean they try to seperate us from necros and look what they end back up with, how original, I was hoping from some creature drawn fromt he SHADOWS, still its a definate step up.</P> <P>anyways I came into the combat revamp situation with my head held high, but after about 2 weeks of posting I was starting to fear what my class might become. Anyways thanks for giving me alittle more faith then I had phozfate, and SK nation keep giving the feedback that is needed to make our class the class its supposed to be</P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[Giral]

<P>so far this is the best Post i have seen regarding combat changes (its from a wiz but hey it is a great post and sheds some light on re-vamp and explains it well)</P> <P></P>Re: The POSITIVE thread, please post comments!<A target=_blank><STRONG><FONT color=#d3cec4>Options</FONT></STRONG></A>  <IMG alt=Options src="http://eq2.i.lithium.com/i/skins/default/button_options.gif" border=0> <A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/view_profile?user.id=115790" target=_blank><SPAN>borg023</SPAN></A><BR><SPAN>Master<BR>Posts: 138<BR>Registered: 12-13-2004 </SPAN><BR><IMG height=8 alt="" src="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/i/p.gif" width=150 border=0><BR><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/view_profile?user.id=115790" target=_blank></A><BR> <P><SPAN>Reply <A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=testfeed&message.id=25920#M25920" target=_blank><FONT color=#c8c1b5>8</FONT></A> of 15 </SPAN><BR><IMG height=6 src="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/i/p.gif" width=1><BR><SPAN>Viewed 271 times<BR></SPAN><IMG alt="1 rating - 5.0 average" src="http://eq2.i.lithium.com/i/skins/default/icon_rating_5.gif" border=0></P><IMG height=1 alt="" src="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/i/p.gif" width=1 border=0><BR> <DIV> <DIV>This is a paste up of another post i made to the combat changes testing forum which pretty much sums up my impression thus far.  I started fresh characters because i wanted to experience the changes that were made, starting from the tutorial.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>OK, played a Sorcerer to 15, since i tend to lean towards always playing casters anyway, and am prepared to give my opinions regarding the lowbie levels.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>First of all, the changes that have been made have certainly forced me to change my methods... almost completely.  It's my feeling that a number of things have contributed to this:  the addition of new spells, the re-arrangement of when i receive spells, the effects of my stats' importance being re-adjusted, having a root spell that actually works in such a way that it's usable (still some risk involved, but definitely more reliable/predictable), the adjustment of cons to a more "meaningful" system of application, and the adjustments to spells' refresh timers, amongst other things.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>i'm finding that my caster is definitely a lot more delicate, but also packs much more of a punch.  When i go toe-to-toe with a mob, i get hurt, even by a green con (although not enough to discourage me from melee'ing down a green con for it's last bubble or 1/2 bubble of health), but the mob dies quick if i'm paying attention to what i'm doing.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm noticing that mobs are behaving a LOT more like what their named as being.  Such as "assasins" dual-wielding with more rapid attacks than "pawns," and casters making full use the spells available to them, and doing so more effectively (stifle has actually become useful rather than superfluous, and for more than just casters).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My AE spells have made it possible for me to take down groups of mobs more efficiently and effectively.  Although i definitely take a serious beating while doing so, using the right combination of AE's and DD's, it can be done.  The important thing to note here, however, is that i can NOT take on groups that are any stronger than 3 blue cons, or the "equivalent" of such a group; i.e. - 3 blue cons, or maybe four blue-down cons (unless there's a healer mixed in, or maybe a hard caster), or 5-6 green cons, etc; but once you start going up into blue-up cons, or heroics in groups of 4+, my survivability becomes quite questionable.  i have pulled it off in some cases, but not reliably in all cases.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>When battling solo mobs, wearing only quested gear, i take a considerable amount of damage while soloing even or higher cons.  Battles such as this usually end with me at about 1/2 health, while having about 3/4 power.  One too many mistakes will surely get me killed, but if i'm paying attention, i'm always victorious.  When i take on yellow, orange or higher cons, my survivability is definitely in question, however, i think that if i had better gear, my chances would definitely be increased considerably.  The higher cons usually end with me dead, and the mob well into the red zone of their health.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>i'm one-shotting solo lvl 12 green cons using root > initiate HO > Tongue Twist (stifle, which is now VERY low power cost, and instant cast) to start HO [Arcane Fury] > Ice Blast [App I] to complete HO.  i can typically do this 7 or 8 times in a row without stopping to rest for power or health (also assuming i get Arcane Fury every time, but even if i don't i can still take it out in two shots).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>When taking on higher solo cons, i'm using DoT > DoT > root > iniate HO > stifle to start HO > Ice Blast to complete HO > repeat steps 3-6 as needed.  If they're particulary tough-looking, i'll throw in a 3rd DoT (Blaze [App II]) after i initiate the HO, but before i start the HO.  Yes, i take a beating, but in most cases, i still emerge victorious in the end, but needing to take a brief breather for health and power to regen.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>i'm also finding that there are definitely times when i need to change the tactic mentioned above from Ice & Fire to Lightning & Fire, in order to be more effective/efficient in differing situations.  Mobs' resists are forcing me to pay attention to what i'm using, and to experiment with what i'm using.  i'm always starting out with Ice, but i'm finding myself wanting to throw in a round of lightning on the next pull, just to see if the mobs at hand might be more susceptible to that, instead of Ice.  When i switch to a more effective element, there's a noticeable improvement, and not just noticeable if i go back afterward and parse a bunch of numbers.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Overall, i'm finding myself feeling less like i'm falling into the proverbial "rut" every time i enter combat.  Sure, sometimes i will use the same technique for while if i'm feeling lazy, and definitely have done that the couple times i've already had to mow through grey cons to complete quests (a by-product of the accelerated xp on Test, i'm thinking), but i'm not feeling like i want to use the same old tried-and-true set of spells every single time i enter combat.  Rather, i'm finding myself wanting to find out if i should change my line-up.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So there you have it.  That's my feedback so far, for what i've seen while playing up this lowbie.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You'll noticed i've refrained from posting any numbers, because though i know what they are, i don't care about them in the least.  What makes or breaks my decision to play a game is whether or not it's engaging and fun, and whether or not i'm sufficiently challenged while playing which directly affects my feelings of a sense of accomplishment.  The developers already know the numbers, so there's no need for me to spit them back out at them here.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Overall, after playing a couple lowbies up to 15 on Test (i also played a melee, but since i prefer casters, i posted regarding that instead), i feel like all of my requirements in a game are being met thus far, and i'm hoping that these feelings will remain as i progress into the higher levels of the game.</DIV></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This post to me definetly expanded on what Phoz was saying earlier about how its hard to describe the changes because Everything has been changed not just Are Numbers but all the numbers for all Classes and Mobs. And also that SOme mobs are More / Less resistant to certain forms of attack IE:Lightning /fire/ice in this example dont know about Disease /Poison/Divine but am ASSuming ; ) that it should hold true for all resists </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also it sounds to me like you realy have to Learn your Toons Skills now HAhaha We Sk's have a step up on that aspect as we already have had to learn how to utilize are character to its fullest potential </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>i am not sure about if Crusader classes will need to have diffrent gear for diffrent situations becuase of the Possible need for us to have to contribute points to ALL of are stats instead of just say STR and INT. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also are unused Ranged slots (Love the Cap idea) this is definetly a area that we need something to add stats that other Tanks get </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> ALso are power consumption if we are now fighting at a much Faster pace but battles take a little longer i definetly dont want to A) auto attack Mob for 50 % of the fight ANd B) have to constantly conserve power  if MAges are gion to be takin out numorous Mobs one after the other with spamming Attacks HO's Roots and Nukes ,/ then i want to Spam my arsenal also and run OOP in the same manor i would like to Take out 3 or 4 in a row instead of    Tank 1  auto attack half the battle  / Tank second one atuo attack 80 % of battle  wait for power regen    repeat steps 1 and 2  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>and also are Offensive stance and Defensive stance i still believe IMO that when we are not MT we should deal just Slightly less DPS than a rouge   Example:  HUGE ax FULL force at monsters neck =Massive damage / Tiny dagger in monsters butt 10 times =a pain in the Buttocks </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><p>Message Edited by Giralus on <span class=date_text>08-22-2005</span> <span class=time_text>06:09 PM</span>