Combat Changes - Skill Line Changes

[Ceruline]

<DIV>Hi all.  I'm at work at the moment, but seeing the general lack of real info, I figured I'd try to post what I can remember about the specific major changes to our skill lines.  I'll try to update this with more details when I get home this afternoon.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Big Changes:</DIV> <DIV>Grim Sword/Plague Sword:  These aren't CAs anymore.  These are now 3 conc buffs, and are considered to be our primary offensive stance.  What this translates to is a substantial Int buff and a weapon skill buff (Like Insatiable Hunger line used to do)  I'll try to do some parsing tonight, but I'm not sure how much of a dps difference this is making on normal mobs.  It also gives a significant defense DEBUFF (Significance of defense has been lessened somewhat though)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Insatiable Hunger line: This now a 1 conc buff, and has nothing whatsoever to do with weaponskill - rather, this buff now gives our whole group a 10% chance at a lifetap proc.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Unholy Blessing:  Remember our wards?   Well, they're gone.  Instead we have the [Removed for Content] child of Cleric reactive heals and lifetaps - a reactive lifetap.  When hit, it will do 80ish damage to the mob, and heal you for 180ish, and it will proc exactly three times.  Bear in mind that in Combat Changes an Adept III will see a huge difference in effect from App I, so your mileage may seriously vary here.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Balance Changes:  (Skill is essentially similar, but details altered:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Dreadful Wrath:  Unfortunately, this bread and butter skill has been essentially reduced into a very average damage dealer.  We now have three more or less identical lines in Dreadful Wrath, Sickening Anger,and Baleful Smite.  Wrath is on a shorter timer and interrupts, but their damage/power ratios are all roughly 3:1.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Insidious Whisper: This is now acting as a taunt over time instead of a straight taunt.  The display info is a bit borked, so I don't know how many ticks it has (And unfortunately, I don't think you can parse threat increases).   This is one of the reasons I'm concerned about aggro, but zones were too laggy to group with anyone last night.  The initial versions of both our taunts though HAD shown a significant aggro INCREASE, so I have a feeling they are intended to be improved - just not sure if it is functioning as such right now.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Lifetaps:   Much more worthwhile! This will actually heal for around 180 now.  Still power inefficient though, but just about every offensive skill we have now is.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Shield Bashes can now be used on Epic Mobs!  (Also, they and kicks are pretty mana efficient, and now knock down mobs.  This does a pretty good job of disabling them)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>AoEs - These have pretty much been converted into AoE DoTs instead.  Haven't used them much due to what I've fought so far.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>HT - Now on a 15 minute timer.  When I soloed Fire Toad last night, I actually got 2 HTs in (Second one was resisted though)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Pet - Duration has been reduced to 36 seconds.  It may be doing more damage though, so I'm holding off on judging this until I can do parsing tonight.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Defensively, we've been seriously improved.  I haven't really explored what we can do when we're pushing it offensively, especially because damage across the board has been seriously reduced (Both from players and mobs)  We can now do a pretty good job at what Paladins used to do (May still be able to, I don't know) where we can solo big mobs by keeping ourselves alive forever and letting auto attack eat away.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm disappointed at the move towards making combat longer and more drawn out - it doesn't seem nearly as much fun as high risk, high reward, high damage combat... But if that's the way they're moving the game, we end up being pretty decent at it.   I had fun last night with the drawn out fights, as I was figuring out how to use the new skills to survive, but after the novelty wears off I can see soloing becoming a major drag.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I see two issues (And may be missing some due to not necessarily playing the same roles a SK would on live):</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>1. Power costs on all of our offensive skills are awful, and mean that we're out of power very quickly if we use them.   While this means that we probably don't want to use many of them if we're playing MT, it also means that if we're playing a secondary role we're out of power very quickly.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>2. Our offensive stance doesn't do enough to increase our dps.  The major problem tanks are going to face with a reduction in damage is that unless they can somehow contribute significantly otherwise (Pally combat rezzes, for example), there's really only a need for one tank in a group.  I think it also severely hurts our desireability on raids if we aren't playing MT, though that's an area I'm not as familiar with (And it's an area I'm led to believe we already struggle in)</DIV> <DIV>The plus is that we probably ARE capable MTs for raids now - but as there's only one MT per raid, that's still leaving a lot of tanks having no useful role on a raid.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Hope this answers some questions, and I'll try to come back with more details when I get home tonight.</DIV>

[Ceruline]

One other thing - I believe it has been said that taunts are all going to get a look AFTER the balancing of things like heals and other classes damage.  Hence, don't panic too much about aggro at the moment, as it makes sense to address that after they know exactly how much aggro we need to be able to generate to compensate for the other classes.

[Vak Mallek]

Thank you very much for the info.  Good to know. Curious to hear more.  Thanks again.  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <div></div>

[vwlsskng]

So, Tainted/Cursed Sacrament now only lasts for 36 seconds? I really hope that blob/bird is doing something pretty damned good for that butchery. <p>Message Edited by vwlssknght on <span class=date_text>08-05-2005</span> <span class=time_text>08:38 AM</span>

[Dst]

Thank you for the information, I have been dieing to find out some information.  Be really interested in seeing the parse. <div></div>

[lubu1977]

i have a master of malv circle which gives me +13def and 2 higher than adept I. I wonder after combat revamp, would that go up higher?

[Eatu]

<P>i have a 50 SK on test server and i did some tests as well.  a few things id like to add to the list.</P> <P> </P> <P>SHIELD BASH LINE:  this is our best taunt by far now.  it is a HOT (hate over time) and by reading the description , over 20 seconds it creates over 2x more hate then our direct taunt.   </P> <P> </P> <P>our DIRECT taunt (insidious whisper) got a major nerf though IMO. it used to have a (broken) component that would decrease the DPS of the taunted target by 32 percent. IF that had been fixed then our taunt would own,  esp now w/ the HOT . and it also used to do damage. now it does decent aggro over time and nothing else</P> <P>Unholy Blessing:  one thing not mentioned is that this CANNOT be cast on yourself. the cool thing about our old ward (even though it wasnt that great) was taht you could cast it on yourself.  not anymore....[expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]?<BR></P> <P>our "arment" line (give mitigation to other lowers yours)  has been improved as well.  it used to , at adept 1, increase targets mitigation for like ~ 300 and lower ours by ~450 (dont quote me direct numbers).  now its reversed. so its not actually efficient.</P> <P> </P> <P>our Malevolent circle main defense buff is also decent now.    it now increases defense skill by around 11 , also KITE SHIELD skill by 11. and then mitigation vs SLASH/PIERCE/CRUSH by 666.  and also mitigation vs DISEASE by 1300. not sure how that compares vs other tanks but its a BIG increase.</P> <P> </P> <P>PVP NOTE:   currently ...WE OWN.....for one reason.  HARMTOUCH hits for 2600 or so at adept 1 and rarely getes resisted vs players (nobody has disease resist, and u can nerf this w/ our ae taunt also).  i cant wait to see what my MASTER 1 will do on live, 3400 DMG HT anyone? <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P> </P> <P>oh and our BEST NEW SPELL.....remember CURSED CARESS?   it is now a SELF BUFF.  takes 1 conc, what it does is it creastes a DAMAGE SHIELD.  every time u get HIT, u (at adept 1) hit the enemy back for 26 damage AND generate 26 HATE. plus chance to get essense.  waht does this mean? well think of Meeting of the minds... u haev 40 mobs on you, every time they hit you, you smack eem back and generate MAD hate....OMG SK CAN HOLD AGGRO!  ....btw i bought master 1 of this the other day for 40 gold. i HIGHLY Recommend buying it if you see it, cause right now on LIVE it sucks..... master 1 is same as adept 1 for the most part.</P> <P> </P> <P>As far our our group lifetap spell..... that has alwasy been a group buff. and it seems to get nerfed, as it used to have +11 to slash/crush/pierce and now it doesnt. also usd to be 10 min duration no conc, too bad.</P> <P> </P> <P>our OVERALL DPS got majorly hit. as mentioned we lost plague sword,  pariahs mark which used to be GOOD dmg + some hate + some lifetap. is now a [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]TY direct damage attack and is worthless...hope they fix this.</P> <P> </P> <P>our Pet... i have him at adept 3.  his duration is nerrfed, and his "normal" attacks arent that great. i saw him hittig for 50 to 100. BUT he can now slam etc for 470 or so.  granted this was on lvl 42 mobs in lavastorm at 50.</P> <P> </P> <P>FInally our STR tap: hey guess what...IT DONT SUCK NOW<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />   at adept 1...it steals 42 health and gives u 42 health. also now it last 1.2 minutes instead of 36 sec which helps.</P> <P> </P> <P>Some decent changes overall, i havent seen how other tanks got changed but i STILL think we deserve a little something extra for hte huge dps loss.</P>

[Zoradan]

Thanks for the good info guys, keep us posted and thanks for playing on test! :smileyvery-happy:

[ganng]

Sounds good, sounds like we can tank with greater ease at the cost of DPS and at long last the trump "look at me while I am killiing you" agro recaimer HT might be worth a crap!

[Xiziz]

Though ive not played the new Sk and ill wait until that point i suppose. But from what im hearing so far ill be caneling my account or rolling a caster they have made us worse and i definatley dont want worse then what i am cause right now at end game content we are as useless as 2 left shoes. Thanks you guys for all the great info And feedback. Its awesome you take the time to post the changes!

[Dogm]

<DIV>We don't really seem worse to me. Every fighter's dps is getting nerfed so we will still be normal  , and scouts will be ahead of us as they should be. Only thing I find really odd is that our ward can not be cast on ourselves. If that is intended it really sucks.</DIV>

[Diern]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Ceruline wrote:<BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm disappointed at the move towards making combat longer and more drawn out - it doesn't seem nearly as much fun as high risk, high reward, high damage combat... But if that's the way they're moving the game, we end up being pretty decent at it.   I had fun last night with the drawn out fights, as I was figuring out how to use the new skills to survive, but after the novelty wears off I can see soloing becoming a major drag.<BR> <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I 100% agree. I was hoping they would move away from the 10 minute fights we used to see in EQlive. I see why they are doing it. But I dont have to like it. I mean our weapons and such must be extremely blunt/inefective if we have to wack a creature 1000 times too kill it

[Exmortis_MT]

<FONT color=#ff0033></FONT><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Ceruline wrote:<BR> <DIV>Hi all.  I'm at work at the moment, but seeing the general lack of real info, I figured I'd try to post what I can remember about the specific major changes to our skill lines.  I'll try to update this with more details when I get home this afternoon.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000>Well thanks for taking the time, I am very interested in reading the changes, and feedback.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Big Changes:</DIV> <DIV>Grim Sword/Plague Sword:  These aren't CAs anymore.  These are now 3 conc buffs, and are considered to be our primary offensive stance.  What this translates to is a substantial Int buff and a weapon skill buff (Like Insatiable Hunger line used to do)  I'll try to do some parsing tonight, but I'm not sure how much of a dps difference this is making on normal mobs.  It also gives a significant defense DEBUFF (Significance of defense has been lessened somewhat though)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0033>Well if you consider +5 to be one level gains in these abilities, this new stance is equiv of 1.5 levels, thats not bad.  How that translates to DPS?  Well on equal or lower level mobs very little i suspect, but when fighting mobs of higher level, it should make a noticable improvment on our hit rate, that should translate into +DPS.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0033></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0033>I like the idea of a Def/Off stance for all fighters.  It gives the illision of a duo role class, and when we are not tanking we are fighting.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Insatiable Hunger line: This now a 1 conc buff, and has nothing whatsoever to do with weaponskill - rather, this buff now gives our whole group a 10% chance at a lifetap proc.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0033>With the addition of the Offensive stance this change was expected, and not a big deal.  grp lifetap isnt a bad idea, guess it depends on how it works in practice.  Its midly useful now, but with 10% chance of proc (if memory serves thats double current rate) it shoudl prove somewhat useful.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Unholy Blessing:  Remember our wards?   Well, they're gone.  Instead we have the [Removed for Content] child of Cleric reactive heals and lifetaps - a reactive lifetap.  When hit, it will do 80ish damage to the mob, and heal you for 180ish, and it will proc exactly three times.  Bear in mind that in Combat Changes an Adept III will see a huge difference in effect from App I, so your mileage may seriously vary here.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0033>I dont have an issue with this change.  This could be very useful for being in a raid with MT grp.  Its 3 garranteed procs and heals, thats not bad. At app2 its 107-131, so improve that to adept 3 and yuo now can offer the MT some nice reactive heals.  It isnt earth shattering, but it could be very helpful.  DPS isnt the only reason to be on a raid, I woudl love to test all this out on a raid, and parse reactive heals over a long epic fight for fun.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Balance Changes:  (Skill is essentially similar, but details altered:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0033>SK has a defiend role now, disease damage tanking.  Lets hope devs make it work.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Dreadful Wrath:  Unfortunately, this bread and butter skill has been essentially reduced into a very average damage dealer.  We now have three more or less identical lines in Dreadful Wrath, Sickening Anger,and Baleful Smite.  Wrath is on a shorter timer and interrupts, but their damage/power ratios are all roughly 3:1.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0033>Since all DPS was reduced, this is only expected.  many of our skills saw damage increases, so its all about balance.  Seems no single attack does extensive damage now, btut hat just means a more skillful use of our power must be our primary goal.  Its not about DPS as it is about sustainability of our grp/raid, and our role may go from top melee dps to an ingeral part of success.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Insidious Whisper: This is now acting as a taunt over time instead of a straight taunt.  The display info is a bit borked, so I don't know how many ticks it has (And unfortunately, I don't think you can parse threat increases).   This is one of the reasons I'm concerned about aggro, but zones were too laggy to group with anyone last night.  The initial versions of both our taunts though HAD shown a significant aggro INCREASE, so I have a feeling they are intended to be improved - just not sure if it is functioning as such right now.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0033>112-137 at adept 1 every 5 secs for 20 secs, that equats to a massive increase of our threat capabilities.  I personally love the idea of HoT, its more in line with how you would actually gain the aggro of an apponent.   Again once yuo master the use of these changes skills, aggro control will be more fluid.  I think this is a great change.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Lifetaps:   Much more worthwhile! This will actually heal for around 180 now.  Still power inefficient though, but just about every offensive skill we have now is.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0033>Im dissapointed in the lack of 1:1 tap:dmg  but yes they are greatly improved.  Considering there is a DPS reduction on all, PCs and NPCs both they may now be useful.  Lifetaps have always been power in efficient becasue they heal and cause damage, making them extremely kewl spells, and thus with a duo role, cost more.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Shield Bashes can now be used on Epic Mobs!  (Also, they and kicks are pretty mana efficient, and now knock down mobs.  This does a pretty good job of disabling them)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0033>This spell has been greatly improved, and they added nice effects.  I cant wait to start useing this ability.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>AoEs - These have pretty much been converted into AoE DoTs instead.  Haven't used them much due to what I've fought so far.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0033>Again this may not be good or bad, just different.  DoTs usually have better power to damage ratios, so maybe a good thing.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>HT - Now on a 15 minute timer.  When I soloed Fire Toad last night, I actually got 2 HTs in (Second one was resisted though)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0033>HT has had a massive damage increase, notnhing short of astounding.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Pet - Duration has been reduced to 36 seconds.  It may be doing more damage though, so I'm holding off on judging this until I can do parsing tonight.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0033>If the pet can realyl dish it out, then ill be happy with 36 secs.  It all depends on what it does.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Defensively, we've been seriously improved.  I haven't really explored what we can do when we're pushing it offensively, especially because damage across the board has been seriously reduced (Both from players and mobs)  We can now do a pretty good job at what Paladins used to do (May still be able to, I don't know) where we can solo big mobs by keeping ourselves alive forever and letting auto attack eat away.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0033>This was needed, we were the worst tanking plate classes by enlarge the widest margin off Guardians.  We shouldnt be number 1, I dont want to be number 1, if i did id have played a guard.  It will be interesting once its tweaked to see if wde realyl do get a defined role of disease damage tanking.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm disappointed at the move towards making combat longer and more drawn out - it doesn't seem nearly as much fun as high risk, high reward, high damage combat... But if that's the way they're moving the game, we end up being pretty decent at it.   I had fun last night with the drawn out fights, as I was figuring out how to use the new skills to survive, but after the novelty wears off I can see soloing becoming a major drag.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0033>Im the opposite, I want longer combat.  it feels short, weak, liek to little kids slapping at each other, like we are basket ball players, lets just jump ariound like panzies and slap each other.   I want heroic battles that take time, power management is key, and I want to feel that the ,longer the battle goes the closer fight it will be.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0033></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0033>Fights in eq2 are too short, this is a good thing.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I see two issues (And may be missing some due to not necessarily playing the same roles a SK would on live):</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>1. Power costs on all of our offensive skills are awful, and mean that we're out of power very quickly if we use them.   While this means that we probably don't want to use many of them if we're playing MT, it also means that if we're playing a secondary role we're out of power very quickly.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0033>This is a global issue being addressed.  Its part of the tweakign process.  Once yuo get the house build, you can decorate the fine looks.  All classes are suffering from power use, word is they will be tweaking NPC HP down over the next weeks to find the sweet spot.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>2. Our offensive stance doesn't do enough to increase our dps.  The major problem tanks are going to face with a reduction in damage is that unless they can somehow contribute significantly otherwise (Pally combat rezzes, for example), there's really only a need for one tank in a group.  I think it also severely hurts our desireability on raids if we aren't playing MT, though that's an area I'm not as familiar with (And it's an area I'm led to believe we already struggle in)</DIV> <DIV>The plus is that we probably ARE capable MTs for raids now - but as there's only one MT per raid, that's still leaving a lot of tanks having no useful role on a raid.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0033>I still think the stance will be useful, but only really so against higher level mobs, to say its useless is ot say you dont want those 5 exra skill points every level, it all adds up.  I think once we see it in full action it will show use.  I agree witht he tankign changes, cant wait to test it out.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Hope this answers some questions, and I'll try to come back with more details when I get home tonight.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Thanks very much for your post and thoughts.<BR>

[Exmortis_MT]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Eatumm wrote:<BR> <P>i have a 50 SK on test server and i did some tests as well.  a few things id like to add to the list.</P> <P><FONT color=#ff0033>Awesome, thanks for taking the time, we non testing SKs appreciate the time your taking.</FONT></P> <P> </P> <P>SHIELD BASH LINE:  this is our best taunt by far now.  it is a HOT (hate over time) and by reading the description , over 20 seconds it creates over 2x more hate then our direct taunt.  </P> <P><FONT color=#ff0033>On the screen page i have there is no duration, but if your right at 20secs, every 2.4 we get +210 threat, thats amazing and does represent alot of hate.  I liek the changes to this art.</FONT> </P> <P> </P> <P>our DIRECT taunt (insidious whisper) got a major nerf though IMO. it used to have a (broken) component that would decrease the DPS of the taunted target by 32 percent. IF that had been fixed then our taunt would own,  esp now w/ the HOT . and it also used to do damage. now it does decent aggro over time and nothing else</P> <P><FONT color=#ff0033>I wouldnt call it a nerf, its a change, it adds way more threat then before, thus doign what is primary role is better, I call this a change for the better.  112-137 threat every 5 secs for 20 secs represents a major upgrade, and considering that was a big weak point for us, I ll take this and be happy.  And thats adept 1, I have adept 3 just waiting for this revamp.</FONT></P> <P> </P> <P>Unholy Blessing:  one thing not mentioned is that this CANNOT be cast on yourself. the cool thing about our old ward (even though it wasnt that great) was taht you could cast it on yourself.  not anymore....[expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]?</P> <P><FONT color=#ff0033>The change is interesting and makes this spell more useful, especially for being in a raid grp with MT.  app2 gives 107-131 3x times garranteed.  Not a bad reactive heal, and can be very useful for that group healer or enchanter when things get rough.  It isnt alwasy about self buffs.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ff0033>Not saying its good nor bad, just different, and we just need to adapt, and find its place.<BR></FONT></P> <P>our "arment" line (give mitigation to other lowers yours)  has been improved as well.  it used to , at adept 1, increase targets mitigation for like ~ 300 and lower ours by ~450 (dont quote me direct numbers).  now its reversed. so its not actually efficient.</P> <P><FONT color=#ff0033>+414 midigation at adept 1.  not bad, remember DPS accross the PC and NPC board has been reduced, thus this being reduced makes sense.  All we see are numbers, and on their own it means jack.  IN AD&D +1 AC sounds useless, but anyone who plays knows you get hit on the ac button enough that you would like 1 more ac always.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ff0033>So that in mind, this coudl still be a useful buff, its all in the realativity of the game mechanic, not the numbers.  Everyone needs to get passed numbers, they just represent a level degree of effectiveness within a system, and +414 now may be very good.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ff0033>I see to much of thus kind of feedback and its non-constructive, the number is lower therefore it sucks.  Thats a shallow view of the grand world we live in.</FONT></P> <P> </P> <P>our Malevolent circle main defense buff is also decent now.    it now increases defense skill by around 11 , also KITE SHIELD skill by 11. and then mitigation vs SLASH/PIERCE/CRUSH by 666.  and also mitigation vs DISEASE by 1300. not sure how that compares vs other tanks but its a BIG increase.</P> <P><FONT color=#ff0033>Guards have better, and get heat, but they shoudl have the best deffensive buff in game, if you want to be the tank man, be a guard i say.  This is a huge increase and I like the idea of high disease buff, giving us a place.</FONT></P> <P> </P> <P>PVP NOTE:   currently ...WE OWN.....for one reason.  HARMTOUCH hits for 2600 or so at adept 1 and rarely getes resisted vs players (nobody has disease resist, and u can nerf this w/ our ae taunt also).  i cant wait to see what my MASTER 1 will do on live, 3400 DMG HT anyone? <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P> </P> <P>oh and our BEST NEW SPELL.....remember CURSED CARESS?   it is now a SELF BUFF.  takes 1 conc, what it does is it creastes a DAMAGE SHIELD.  every time u get HIT, u (at adept 1) hit the enemy back for 26 damage AND generate 26 HATE. plus chance to get essense.  waht does this mean? well think of Meeting of the minds... u haev 40 mobs on you, every time they hit you, you smack eem back and generate MAD hate....OMG SK CAN HOLD AGGRO!  ....btw i bought master 1 of this the other day for 40 gold. i HIGHLY Recommend buying it if you see it, cause right now on LIVE it sucks..... master 1 is same as adept 1 for the most part.</P> <P><FONT color=#ff0033>Agree, very nice spell.</FONT></P> <P> </P> <P>As far our our group lifetap spell..... that has alwasy been a group buff. and it seems to get nerfed, as it used to have +11 to slash/crush/pierce and now it doesnt. also usd to be 10 min duration no conc, too bad.</P> <P><FONT color=#ff0033>over all its good within the changes of the revamp.  Its proc rate is doubled if memory serves so hopefully it does show up from time to time.</FONT>  </P> <P> </P> <P>our OVERALL DPS got majorly hit. as mentioned we lost plague sword,  pariahs mark which used to be GOOD dmg + some hate + some lifetap. is now a [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]TY direct damage attack and is worthless...hope they fix this.</P> <P><FONT color=#ff0033>Your rigth why woudl any fighter want a direct attack?  Get rid of every one of them.  Dude, sorry but get a grip here, just becasue they removed the hate and improved every other threat increaser we have? does that mean it sucks?  no, its an extra attack, here are stats:</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ff0033>adept 3   125-208dmg   heals caster 68</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ff0033>Its not great but its useful, dmg is in line with all other changes, again ignore the numbers and look past the problem to the solution.  It only uses 51 power and recast is 10secs....id say thats not bad.</FONT></P> <P> </P> <P>our Pet... i have him at adept 3.  his duration is nerrfed, and his "normal" attacks arent that great. i saw him hittig for 50 to 100. BUT he can now slam etc for 470 or so.  granted this was on lvl 42 mobs in lavastorm at 50.</P> <P><FONT color=#ff0033>I wished they removed pet, but so far I have heard it does more damage then before over less time.  Ill have to reserve judgement and parse it.</FONT>  </P> <P> </P> <P>FInally our STR tap: hey guess what...IT DONT SUCK NOW<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />   at adept 1...it steals 42 health and gives u 42 health. also now it last 1.2 minutes instead of 36 sec which helps.</P> <P><FONT color=#ff0033>This is about time, we so needed a real str tap, I am very happy with this change, and remember it acts as a debuffer too, for what every effect -42str has on a mob.</FONT></P> <P> </P> <P>Some decent changes overall, i havent seen how other tanks got changed but i STILL think we deserve a little something extra for hte huge dps loss.</P> <P><FONT color=#ff0033>Well we all took a hit, we are supposedly the 4th best of 6 for DPS and 4th best for Tanking.  That equates to best Plate class for damage and worst at tanking, a fair reprise.  Over all I think we finalyl got lovin as an SK, if all skills work as described and we dont start with more broke then working im a happy guy.   Every class will see drastic changes, for us I think we see over all improvment, thats the difference between us and over half the classes.  We were already good DPS and low end plate tanks, so thats not a change, if all arts and spells work we are better off then we are now.</FONT></P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Thank you very much for your post, info and feedback.</DIV>

[Elymri]

<P>im just really curious about 1 thing and that is insidious whisper being a dot taunt</P> <P>2 posts above me someone mentions its </P> <P><FONT color=#ff0033>112-137 at adept 1 every 5 secs for 20 secs</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff>ok .. thats about 500ish hate every 20 secs</FONT></P> <P>while in its current form my ad3 whisper does about 750 hate every 8 seconds (</P> <P>am i the only one that sees a big problem here?</P> <P>this would make sence if the new whisper would be stackable with itself but none of the spells do that ingame now so why would this change</P> <P> </P> <P>then something else</P> <P>what is the benefit of making our taunt a dot?</P> <P>usually when they make dots they do more hate/damage/healing then a direct spell because you dont get the effect straight away but here i dont see that .. unless other classes have their taunt # nerfed below the total of ours</P> <P>besides the idea that dots should be more # then dd spells ..when i taunt a mob id rather have all the hate directly .. i dont want my healers getting beaten up while i say .. sorry ill have more hate in a few ticks bare with me plz ..</P> <P> </P> <P>i could go on and on .. but i think you guys get the picture</P> <P>please tell me im wrong .. id hate to be the class that needs to build his aggro for a minute til its safe for other classes to do something .. i dont wanna be an eq1 warrior</P>

[PhozFa]

Soe said they were tweaking fighter taunts last <div></div>

[JRav]

<P>I have a simple question that I thought would have been answered but I can't find any info on it. Does the adjusted Intervene line mitigate damage? Im pretty sure right now on live it does not. It would be a great addition to all fighters if it wasnt a 1 hit sacrifice spell (even if it doesn't mitigate its still a nice upgrade). I see this spell as a way that fighters may not be completely useless after changes on raids because of dps (this seems to be the general opionion on these boards even though I disagree). So any input on Intercede would be appreciated <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> .</P> <P>Special thanks to all the dedicated testers out there  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P>

[Zoradan]

<P>Elya my thoughts and worries on taunts are the same. A DoT taunt sounds good on paper but I fear the slow [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] agro building. When split tanking to save a healer we'll be so [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]ing ussless it's not even funny. </P> <P>Hey Templar, "ya ya, tank that ting... na keep doing it nother tick.. nope next tick I'm sure!"</P> <P>I don't like it, but we'll have to see what happens.</P>

[joeygopher]

<P>Well sounds like we might make pretty decent tanks now.  But soloing sounds like its gonna be lame, and that always used to be one of the SKs strong points.  Building up aggro doesn't help me when I'm the only possible target the mobs have!!  Solo fights are gonna take a lot longer as we'll be trying not to burn all our mana whilst doing inneffectual damage.  Our DPS was what made us a good solo class.</P> <P>So is there now a policy that grouping is "strongly encouraged" or are these changes the result of high-end raiding SKs whining they can't contribute?  This might put off "casual" gamers that need a good solo class.</P> <P>Unfortunately, Guardians will still end up as first-choice raid tanks.  Sks' role will be to inadvertantly pull aggro from them coz we can't click our hotbar without generating hate.</P> <P>Sounds like a bit of a win if you're tanking in a group or raid.  If you're a casual player that can't afford the time to find a group every session you've been whacked with the nerf bat.</P>

[Giral]

Im utterly at a loss as to the need for a offensive and defensive stance if your DPS sucks in both if we are not main tank are dps should come up to nearly a scouts if not equal 2 especially since we are Granting are Armour away to the main Tank making ourselves  as weak as a scout by lowering our own armourment . SO What's The deal ? How  Big is the diffrence in Damage from Defense to Offense ?

[Pallaton]

<P>AS an SK that solos 95% of the time... I don't like these changes at all!</P> <P>Even with the decent damage I do, I still run out of power far too quickly. Now that it seems fights are going to be drawn out... UGH I don't even want to think about it! :smileysad:</P> <P>I hope it's not as bad as I'm imagining it... god I hope not.</P>

[EnraptureE]

<P>Great info so far, its good to know whats at least happening.</P> <P>I'm not sure what to make of the combat durations increasing.  I sure as hell don't want TRC again, or most of PoP encounters.  If the durations of all fights, epic raid etc.. are going to start becoming long drawn out horrendously long scripted whatever, I'm gonna lose it.  No mob ever, should take longer than 10 mins with the proper raid encounter group of 24 there.  If its solo mob/s, 1-2 min, if its group mob/s, 2-5 mins, hard group, 5-10 mins.  Anything longer than this, would be if yer trying with less & I'm talking the actual mob itself, not necessarily the script encounter mobs before hand.  If it is longer... *shoots self in head*</P>

[Exmortis_MT]

<DIV>few things I have heard all, please im not a tester so its just third party.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>1- DoT taunts are out, atleast for now, they may bring them back in the form of secondary aggro tools, but main taunting abilities are back to a static threat level per use.  Rescue has its threat doubled or somthing and the number of spots you move goes up as well with scaling.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>2- Dmg is up on melee, overall not alot but it has gone up, some attacks back to current levels.  It appears SKs are going to have to live with many long as recasts, not sure if its spells or CAs or both, but get ready for us having prolly some of biggest melee attacks, but long recast.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>3- NPC epic dmg is being tweaked, and expect mobs that pump out high dmg vs a resist to have their melee dps reduced.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>4- NPC hp are still slowly coming down, but expect much much longer fights, and no more heroic double up 4 levels red mobs as fast as you can pull em.  The higher the con over your level the much more time to kill and recover, if you fight reds, expect downtime.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>thats all i have heard, guards just went through a huge change and have seen many changes.  Seems their dps was increased, and all fighters will see similar changes, i guess we got reduced too much.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>still lots of work to do, but things are comin together, just wish i was that to test them.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV><p>Message Edited by Exmortis_MT on <span class=date_text>08-16-2005</span> <span class=time_text>05:49 AM</span>

[Grumthar]

Just a quick question for the high level SKs on test.  Do we still have the evac at 44? <div></div>

[PhozFa]

evac=yes<div></div>

[Sasaki Koji]

<DIV>What did they do to Infernal Pact and Unholy Blessing? did they make those castable on the caster now or is it still on a different group member only? It really needs to be able to target the caster as well..</DIV>

[Grumthar]

This topic has not been revisited in a week.  What changes have occured since the last new information in this thread?  Are we worse or better in comparison to the other fighter subclasses than we are currently?  What is happening? <div></div>

[Giral]

<DIV>same questions i've been askin Grumthar ; ( </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>all i have heard is we now do some silly dance when casting i think it was ward it's suppose to be really really [Removed for Content] : ( so not only do we get a blob and a bird but now we are giong to prance around like the Lord of The Dance  </DIV> <DIV>Man did you see that Paladin lvl 50 post they even put it up on start up page of eq sign  on screen ; (</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>i hear are tuants are still cheesy are ward is still not comparable to pally heals and are dps might be even with pally so we pretty much are exactly the same place we are now on live 4th place to tank or less if they keep reworking the other tanks we could end up last to tank last to dps </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>was realy hopin revamp would make us a really class defined Evil Knight and finally make all players respect us and love to have us tankin </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Grant my armour yeah thats why i work so so hard to buy great gear so i can play back up to a "Good" Knight Im evil these mobs fear my very breath .  O  whats that you want the Pally to Tank  ; (  O ok ow whats that Mr.Paladin sir you want me to grant you my armour to make you even better O ok sir anything else i can get for you  O  ow whats that dont even bother attacking cuase my Dps is useless and it will just grab you agro now   O  ok i just go afk Im on auto follow just Evac and disband me when you guys are finish Thanks so much for grouping me you guys are so Swell  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Margen]

<P>A Question that just popped into my head.  We know that INT is now a factor in spell damage (as a Troll that makes me a bit worried LOL), the question I have is does your INT effect Life Taps.  Meaning do you get more damage/hp's returned with higher INT.</P> <P>Does seem kind of screwy that the crusader classes are going to be the most effected by the new rules with stats.  We are having to worry about all 5 stats more then any other class I can think off ... Just a mild rant <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.</P> <P>Any information is appricated and thanks what has been given so far</P> <P>Good Hunting</P> <P>V/R</P> <P>Blackoath</P>

[Eatu]

<DIV>yes INt will effect all sk offensive "spells"  ....so more int = more dmg on your life taps...harm touch (in fact huge difference).  but that where your offensive stance comes in.   off stance at adept 3 increases int by like 101 or something like that.   </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>my harm touch went from 3400 or so to 5400 ( i may be off slightly i checked a few days ago) and most other attcks had like ane xtra 30 percent dmg.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>on the same page ,  combat arts for sks are effected by strength.   debuffs/buffs dont seem to be effected by int or str. (which makes sense)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>basically if u want to do good dps as a sk u want to be in offensive stance.  and str tap FTW!</DIV>

[Rylight]

<DIV>nice solid info that straight to the point, thank you:smileyhappy:</DIV>

[Margen]

<P>Thanks for the information, didn't realize that the stances raised stats.</P> <P>V/R</P> <P>Blackoath</P>

[Sasaki Koji]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Eatumm wrote:<BR> <DIV>yes INt will effect all sk offensive "spells"  ....so more int = more dmg on your life taps...harm touch (in fact huge difference).  but that where your offensive stance comes in.   off stance at adept 3 increases int by like 101 or something like that.   </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>my harm touch went from 3400 or so to 5400 ( i may be off slightly i checked a few days ago) and most other attcks had like ane xtra 30 percent dmg.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>on the same page ,  combat arts for sks are effected by strength.   debuffs/buffs dont seem to be effected by int or str. (which makes sense)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>basically if u want to do good dps as a sk u want to be in offensive stance.  and str tap FTW!</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Question about our combat arts. I noticed their mostly disease damage melee type effect. will that too be effected by int or will STR come into play with those, also VS targets disease mit...? *confuses self*

[Rylight]

<DIV>I AM NOT ON BETA OR TEST, so this is just a guess but....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>it sounds like our int will help with the spells or CA's that do deisease damage, and the str will come in handy for pure physical attacks that dont have an extra deisease proc or buff.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>no idea though</DIV>