Gimped agro management.

[Bruener]

<DIV>Ok the last couple levels of my shadowknight I have found that it has become extremely harder to maintain agro in a group setting, especially if there is another tank class in the group.  I will pull mobs with dreadful and throw off a taunt right away than either throw in a buff or debuff depending on what is up.  Grouping with any other tank class (cept for pally) they were able to easily pull agro off me in no time without even trying.  This is becoming very frustrating and even embarrassing.  Is anybody else having these issue when the reach the end game?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Side-note: Does despoiling mist ever land?  Thought that it was landing when I casted it on mobs but it never shows an icon up.  Than when I casted it on some low level 30 mobs I noticed the icon....think I have had it land maybe once the whole time I have had it if the icon means it landed.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>50 Shadowknight</DIV> <DIV>Befallen</DIV>

[Teljair]

Make sure you HO alot in groups to maintain aggro. Also throw in a buff or 2 right in the middle of combat. I usually have no problem holding aggro... even on a raid mob. <div></div>

[Arlon]

<span><blockquote><hr>Bruener wrote: <div> </div> <div>Side-note: Does despoiling mist ever land?  Thought that it was landing when I casted it on mobs but it never shows an icon up.  Than when I casted it on some low level 30 mobs I noticed the icon....think I have had it land maybe once the whole time I have had it if the icon means it landed.</div> <div> </div> <div>50 Shadowknight</div> <div>Befallen</div><hr></blockquote>Check this thread: <a href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=9&message.id=9776" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=9&message.id=9776</a> To raise ordination skill just run around hitting evac/gate <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </span><div></div>

[Bruener]

<P>I usually do try throwing a couple buffs in the middle of the fight and I am constantly hitting HO's throughout fights....and yet other tank classes seem to pull agro no problem.</P> <P>Thanks for the DM advice.</P>

[Pero Salm]

<DIV>This is the same problem I have too.  When ever Im with a guardian generally he always get the aggro, I ask are you taunting, and he says "no."</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I think Ive been hearing the same story over and over.  SKs always losing aggro.  Trying everything to get the aggro back so he could tank, but its nearly impossible.</DIV>

[strath]

All the way thru the lvls this was true, any other melee class witha  taunt could take my agro away at a mere thought almost, not that i had weak agro, thiers was just better, but the other day, lvl 44 or 45 i believe we were out hunting, same group, and i stole agro from the guardian...without meaning to. just got insidious whisper appt 1,  all others at adept 1, and it seems that if i do a routine of all my taunt component skills, destructive slam , HO with whisper, parhiah's mark, then another HO with shriek of terror, i always had agro after that set, even nicer, i found that with carful management, me and the guardian( or even zerker) could ping pong agro back and forth. kinda an odd feeling for me, but i still get beat like a red headed step child compared to the guardian. so i can pull agro, but  cant stand up to it, weeeee!

[Margen]

<P>When I group with a Guardian, as long as he doesn't taunt its not too bad (still lose aggro, to much, but it is somewhat manageable), but if I group with a bezerker, forget it, they constiantly snag aggro with out even trying.  Makes it a bit frustrating to be honest.  Plus, If you lose aggro, forget it, it will take 10-20 secs to get it back, and our supposed snap aggro tool rescue doesn't work alot of the time and is on a silly 30 min timer.</P> <P>V/R</P> <P>Blackoath 33rd Troll Shadow Knight</P>

[Zoradan]

<P>In exp groups; I genraly only lose agro when being lazy and not taunting ie I'm chatting in tells or yeling at the dog  :smileytongue:</P> <P>Every one will lose agro once in a while, just a fact, but in exp/farming 99% of the time if your on your taunts you wont lose agro.</P> <P> </P> <P>50 sk, to dam lazy to change my sig.</P>

[xolthar]

<P>Im a 32 SK atm and I find I can hold aggro very well, especially against solo heroic mobs.</P> <P>(solo heroics) I pull with dd, rund back, pop HO cast grim coil, then decree of decay. If aggro seems to be a problem I instantly follow up with Heroines challenge. Otherwise I use my two shield slams one of which increases hate also. Followed by my self ward.</P> <P>Then I pretty much pop HO's and either cast or swing some ability and taunt with Inflame, Decree of Decay or Heroines Challenge and cast ward as necessary. To save power I sometimes just use my regular lowbie taunt.</P> <P>As always make sure your group knows that you have to get your taunt off before they start going for dps. I've been running back and had a bruiser or scout class rip into the mob before I even get a chance for one taunt. I dont even taunt for the rest of the fight and let them tank it. Surprisingly next pull they tend to wait for you to get your taunt off. :smileyvery-happy:</P> <P>Now group mobs are a different kettle of fish but if everyone is assisting should not pose much of a problem. Group mobs I'll generally pull with my dd and then use my aoe taunt Shout, I'll follow this immediately by an aoe such as Cry of Conviction or our DOT aoe spell. I'll self ward and then use my shield slams. Sometimes I've noticed that using HO's your decree of decay will pop and aoe always handy. You can also use assault with 1H or sorrow with 2H to damage the entire encounter.</P> <P>Overally we are far less equipped to deal with group mobs that solo heroics but it seems if your group lets you get your taunt off and build some hate while assisting you at the same time you should have less problems.</P>

[megatra]

<DIV>From 40 to 50 I had no problems keeping aggro. The only fighter type I regularly lose aggro to is Berserker. Other than that, some Wizards and some Warlocks.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Chain cast your taunts, if you didn't choose Zarn's Deadly Plague as your advancement you are at a little disadvantage as it has a lower recast timer and higher hate increaser. I used Zarn's all the way up to level 48 or so when I received Insidious Whisper.</DIV>

[Mistmoore-Milaga]

<DIV>I never have trouble losing aggro except if I'm falling asleep.  If I am too sleepy and forget to taunt properly it's nothing that running all taunts, harm touch, rescue and even graven embrace (if necissary) can't handle.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I hear the same story over and over again about SKs losing aggro too.  And the story is always from the same person -- Mr. Salmon.</DIV>

[Vitriol]

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Milaga wrote:<BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I hear the same story over and over again about SKs losing aggro too.  And the story is always from the same person -- Mr. Salmon. <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>I have repeatedly posted about losing agro, even with master taunts.  I kite-pull/finish the HO with AE taunt before getting back to camp, use insatiable hunger mid-combat, ward myself, pariah, stun and adept 3 AE like crazy.  Of course, someone deliberately overnuking is going to draw agro.  But other tanks in the group will steal agro and I think it comes down to their group buffs.  Its hard to combat the agro generation of a someone maintaining 5-15 buffs with our 1 group buff.</DIV>

[Uggli]

If other tanks are casting group buffs in battle they need to be killed.   Group buffs need to be done before the pull or well after the start of the encounter if your not the main tank. <div></div>

[far]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Uggliey wrote:<BR>If other tanks are casting group buffs in battle they need to be killed.   Group buffs need to be done before the pull or well after the start of the encounter if your not the main tank.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>From what i understand some of them are very brief duration, or something you do right before performing another to get maximum efficiency from the skill, as a class with gimped power consumption cost I feel their pain and refuse to group with them.</DIV>

[Diri]

<P>I would say try despoiling mist a few times and ward whoever has aggro-that should help get it back to you, if the fight is long enough. If the fight isnt long enough-why worry if another tank has aggro? Hell, let him tank and you stand behind, cast your pet and lay some good dps with your 2hander-at least you can outdamage the bugger <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </P> <P>Overall, I think SK are the least efficient at holding and regaining aggro. Folks, SK are just so much harder to play than guardians, get used to it or change class. The game balance is against our class-it makes SK very challenging to play. At times it is fun, at other times it is very frustrating. Maybe some day when our taunts actually do what is written in their description-maybe then we will hold aggro with ease. </P>

[far]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Dirigo wrote:<BR> <P>I would say try despoiling mist a few times and ward whoever has aggro-that should help get it back to you, if the fight is long enough. If the fight isnt long enough-why worry if another tank has aggro? Hell, let him tank and you stand behind, cast your pet and lay some good dps with your 2hander-at least you can outdamage the bugger <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </P> <P>Overall, I think SK are the least efficient at holding and regaining aggro. Folks, SK are just so much harder to play than guardians, get used to it or change class. The game balance is against our class-it makes SK very challenging to play. At times it is fun, at other times it is very frustrating. Maybe some day when our taunts actually do what is written in their description-maybe then we will hold aggro with ease. </P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Despoiling mist is 203 Power and on a 20 or 30 second recast with a duration of 72 seconds while it pulls a medium amount of aggro its not that impressive for the power cost (I have geb prismatic and glyph of enlightment and it still burns power), but that is my sentiment exactly if someone else in the group wants to pull aggro let them tank, fighting over it just isnt worth the effort,its when they say OMG taunt taunt taunt that it pisses me off.</P> <P>An average fight of 46-50 mobs is about 3 minutes give or take a min (which is how well your group performs hos), im a big fan right now of lucks bite on grinding or dungeon crawling adventures, as with the above post if the monk or zerk (of lower level i might add) are pulling aggro off me every fight i say screw it enjoy tankin guys.</P> <P><BR> </P>

[xolthar]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> xolthar05 wrote:<BR> <P>Im a 32 SK atm and I find I can hold aggro very well, especially against solo heroic mobs.</P> <P>(solo heroics) I pull with dd, rund back, pop HO cast grim coil, then decree of decay. If aggro seems to be a problem I instantly follow up with Heroines challenge. Otherwise I use my two shield slams one of which increases hate also. Followed by my self ward.</P> <P> </P> <P><FONT color=#ff66cc>Important update, I have just changed from decree of decay to Disease Cloud, this spell generates significantly more hate. I was also lucky enough to find a rhudihium (sp?) cluster when harvesting and had a friend make a Adept III version of this spell. It now generates from approx 350 to 440 hate per cast. Very handy.</FONT></P></BLOCKQUOTE>

[Vitriol]

<P>My disease cloud was a master.  Still had lower level, non-taunting fighters out-agro me.</P> <P><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=9&message.id=8242&query.id=0#M8242" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=9&message.id=8242&query.id=0#M8242</A></P>

[Margen]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> xolthar05 wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> xolthar05 wrote:<BR> <P>Im a 32 SK atm and I find I can hold aggro very well, especially against solo heroic mobs.</P> <P>(solo heroics) I pull with dd, rund back, pop HO cast grim coil, then decree of decay. If aggro seems to be a problem I instantly follow up with Heroines challenge. Otherwise I use my two shield slams one of which increases hate also. Followed by my self ward.</P> <P> </P> <P><FONT color=#ff66cc>Important update, I have just changed from decree of decay to Disease Cloud, this spell generates significantly more hate. I was also lucky enough to find a rhudihium (sp?) cluster when harvesting and had a friend make a Adept III version of this spell. It now generates from approx 350 to 440 hate per cast. Very handy.</FONT></P></BLOCKQUOTE> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Someone correct me but isn't Disease cloud the upgrade to inflame, where decree of decay is the upgrade to shout.  Granted Disease cloud is a nice spell, due to both the dps factor and hate factor.  But I still see problems maintaing aggro with other tanks in the group or a warlock/wizzy.</P> <P>V/r</P> <P>Blackoath 34th Troll Shadow Knight</P>

[Bruener]

<DIV>At lower levels I had no problems maintaining agro either.  Where I am having problems is once I got real close to 50 and at 50.  Warlocks/wizards can pull a mob off pretty easy, but I expect them to control their trigger finger.  However where it is most frustrating is when you are grouping with another tank of a slightly lower level, i.e. Bezerker, Guardian, Monk, Bruiser....and they can pull agro off easily.  If I am pulling the mobs, throwing out everything I can for taunts, debuffs, HO's and buffs I should not have agro stolen from me and yet these guys can....especially if they put their back into it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I don't wanna seem like a whiner because I love the skill that it takes to play a shadowknight, but sometimes it seems pretty ridiculous how easy some of the other fighter classes can gain and maintain agro.</DIV>

[Bruener]

<P>Well I found it necessary to post here again in response to what happened to me last night.</P> <P>I decided to finish up my SSoY quest in DFC finally, after several buggy/failed attempts.  We had a descent force, including me (50 SK) and a friend of mine a 50 fury.  Figured with the 2 of us we would take along any riders that wanted to go.  Well we made it through the citadel np and into the arena.  It was a very easy fight through because all the mobs were gray.  Well we start the final ring event and start smashing up all the mobs that come out to challenge us, than Fyst finally comes down....</P> <P>As he runs in and becomes targettable I threw out a taunt and had him on me.  I immediately followed with my AE taunt to get the extra hate and than throw in debuffs, buffs and HO's almost non-stop.  Well I was able to hold agro for maybe 20% of the time while the 45 Bezerker that was with us constantly pulled Fyst off me and onto himself.  Get this, he didn't use a single taunt....</P> <P>Once agro was pulled off me, I was still going through everything that I know how to do to gain/keep agro to pull him back (meanwhile I can just see my power bar dropping).  I was able to pull Fyst back onto me...only to have him ping-pong right back to the bezerker.  I would say that he held agro for at least 80% of the time and this really made me sick since he confessed to me in tells that he had had a similar problem when he did the encounter last with a 50 monk, and all of this without using his taunts, since Fyst could still take it too him.</P> <P>While it did take some of the sting off that he admitted the same problem happened with a 50 monk it was still quite embarrassing.  I mean we are talking a 5 level gap and he was able to STEAL agro and maintain it for a longer time than I was....all WITHOUT taunts.  The fury friend I was with made the comment to me "that really shows why shadowknights need some work done for their taunts."</P> <P>So, when is it going to happen?</P> <P>50 Shadowknight of Befallen</P> <p>Message Edited by Bruener on <span class=date_text>05-26-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:51 AM</span>

[Mistmoore-Milaga]

<DIV>When you attack a group of mobs, for most of them your first thought would be to target the easiest to kill first to start cutting down the DPS.  Guess what, mobs use the same strategy.  Casters will have a higher "built in" hate than other tanks, and lower level party members will also be primary targets unless you can override it with taunts.  I think this Bezerker's problem was he was low enough to be a prime target but high enough to be able to do good damage to Fyst.  Therefore, even without taunting he was building up some good hate and Fyst just wanted badly to cut him down.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I can only back this up with anecdote, I don't have any definitive evidence.  But I *never* have trouble holding aggro away from group members that are my level.  Take along a Mystic who is 6 levels lower than me and even after landing lots of spells and taunts, ONE heal and the mob turns from me and pounds my companion into the ground.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I think this would happen to anyone.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Margen]

<P>Nope, sorry you are mistaken.   I grouped with a beserker who was 2 levels higher then me,but he asked me to tank because he didn't want to that night.  So I said sure, pulled out my ax and board and started pulling.  Everytime he cast bloodrage or any other buff he has to cast for dps, BAM I lose aggro and guess what I couldn't get it back to save my life.  I was casting my taunts, buffs, aoe on group mobs, ho'ing as fast as I could, bashing, and I still kept losing aggro.  There is a problem and I feel we need some help on it.</P> <P>V/R</P> <P>Blackoath 34th Troll Shadow Knight</P>