Vision of the Shadowknight

[Darc]

<DIV>Really, I feel the shadowknights have been distracted by the tank / paladin issue.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>We were never meant to be elite tanks.  Paladin are defensive... yet shad are offense.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>and offensive =P</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But still we shud look back to our roots.  The gathering of Queen Christanos' army.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>We were part necro... but also part rogue...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>We were part of The Dead.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So givin all that... I wuld really enjoy more stealth... more dmg output... and less AC... less armor if need be.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And also a far better feign death.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>We are shadowknights.  Pride ourselves on agility and extreme offensive maneuvers.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>We shud give up the illusion of tank... move more t'wards the shadow part of our name.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Just my 2cp</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Darcat</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[vTenebr]

<div></div><div></div>That's rather difficult to do when you consider we have no methods of concealing our presense.   It's hard to be a shadowy figure if you're always in plain sight. There's a misconception, though.  You're saying we're part necro, part rogue?  We're not even remotely rogue.  We do not skulk, we do not hide.  We're fighters.  We wear solid plated armor for a reason.  Many of us spent most of our lives in the forefront of battle.  It's still where I prefer to be.  I'll leave the skulking to those to weak to stand before a creature and face it down. I'm a knight.  I prefer to run you through while staring you in the eye.. rather than hiding and poking from behind.  That's without honor.  That is weak.  I live in darkness, I revel in the macabre, but.. .. I am no furtive rogue, cowering in the bushes, waiting for your back to turn.  I want to look in your face... as I slide my blade between your ribs. <div></div><p>Message Edited by vTenebrae on <span class=date_text>05-13-2005</span> <span class=time_text>12:17 AM</span>

[Sasaki Koji]

<DIV>Although i agree that we are part warrior and not part rouge, i wouldnt mind stabing someone in the back. Chivalry is not for Shadowknights. I will do what it takes to end the lives of my foes.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The shadowknights of old werent given 'sneak' or 'backstab' skills. though it would seem that they would be rougish, they had the ability to 'taunt', something rouges did not know how to do. They had great abilities to take hits and maintain agression, much like the shadowknights of today. However theyre ability to move in the shadows was much greater than todays Shadowknight. We've also lost our minor control over the undead, our ability to drain great amouts of life from our enemies, and our faster, longer lasting Feign Death.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Mabey someday when Innorruk looks apon us once again will our powers be returned to us. I await that day. I will Kill until that day arives.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Kojiro</DIV> <DIV>48th Shadowknight of Lucan D'Lere</DIV>

[Diern]

<P>Misconception. </P> <P>Somewhere back in the development of EQL, when they were trying to balance classes they decided that the shadowknight would be a tank class. Many argued against it at the time, as at creation it eluded to the shadowknight indeed being an offensive character. Sony in thier wisdom decided that the shadowknight would be a defensive fighter with offensive spells. They painted themselves into a corner with this decision because the offensive tank  is a class makeup that is near impossible too balance. From what I understand the EQL Shadowknight is doing very well at the moment, but its taken them 5 years to get right.</P> <P>With EQ2 they had a great opportunity to re-envision the class so too speak. All classes actually. But they have just gone ahead and repeated themselves all over again. The major difference is this time, all the great abilities the EQL shadowknight have (Invisibility, levitation, Good lifetaps, Feign death too name a few) have either been nerfed to oblivion or removed entirely due too the new archtype system.</P> <P>I see the shadowknight as a Mirror of the Paladin, they are two different sides too the same coin. Both defensive fighters, with Defensive and offensive spells or abilities respectively.</P> <P>I always see the Paladin as a vehement knight, sword and sheild in hand, defending his allies. calling upon his divine powers to augment his groups strength and protect them</P> <P>The Shadowknight a brutal commander wielding a wicked two handed weapon, at the forefront of battle carving a swath through his enemies. Making up for his lack of defensive with potent necromancy and lethal offense. Instilling fear and hatred in his adversaries ( and his comrades).The Shadowknight is a class I eventually grew too love in EQL, There really is nothing like it in any fantasy setting/game  I am aware of.</P> <P>Ive said it before, the current EQ2 SK is a mockery of the earlier model. but its early days and hopefully this really is a repeat of what happened with EQL and they will eventually get it right. Even though it might take 5 years :robotmad:</P>

[Sir Draymon]

<DIV>LOL what fun could be had with backstab </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>"here's 3 1/2 feet of cold steel curtesy of Lucan" :smileyvery-happy:</DIV>

[Loter]

<FONT face=Verdana color=#e5fed7 size=2>Rats speaking of evil, hehe. Cute. They make great lining btw.<BR><BR>Speaking of back stabbing. It really makes no difference whether my blade enters my foe's body from the back or front... it always connects with the back. Usually I cut from the front. Guess I like the mixture of panic and surprise I see in their eyes when they die.<BR><BR>I'm a tank! I kill! It's what I was born to do, shaped to do, raised to do, and I can't stop... not that I want to!</FONT>

[far]

<P>My time playing an SK in EQ1 was as 3/4 warrior 1/4 necro caster. Shadowknights were lords among men, a nobility by birthright and charged by thul or innorukk to go forward and seperate the wheat from the chaff, to spread fear and hate evenly with just a little bit of plague so generations after the populace would still see the path we had traveled.</P> <P>As a knight my preferred mode of combat is is heads up and facing my opponent, allowing me a better vantage to see their despair as they fall by my sword, or axe. I am bound by no code of chivarly, I glory in taking an opponents strength and turning to their weakness, tapping their bodies with magical dots, drains and thefts to make me stronger, draining their life to heal myself and sustaining myself and my group by dehabilitating others. The more enemies I face the more life force for me to feed from, and the stronger I am.</P> <P>Hence perhaps at the start of a battle a guardian might have more hps, but after a stamina tap, and a crippling plague things might be a little differant.</P> <P>As a grave lord, A master and king of the undead, I have the ability to temporarily raise the corpses of my enemies as my pets, to turn on their former comrades, further inspiring fear and hate, although more importantly despair.</P> <P>As a Knight I am a master tactician and general of the dark armies, with the use of underhanded tactics/surprise (see above) more then brute force I entrap and crush my enemies.</P> <P>Stealth for me is the oppertunity to choose my battlefields, to avoid facing guards and to move directly to my prey, eluding all but the most adept users of the arcane arts.</P> <P>I favor offense over defense hence my spells will focus on crippling my enemies (debuffs), dealing damage rather than heals, increaseing my attack over defense, and lifetaps as my primary means of healing. </P> <P>My ideal battle is short and bloody beating down my opponent (read interupting) before he has a chance to react, my DPS is a higher curve then his healing ability or dps curve in proportion to our hps. Rather then wait him out,though wards, heals, resists, hidng behind a shield that pallies prefer to use.</P>

[Deadjest]

<DIV>   The Shadow Knight we have now is what I consider the watered down version of EQL, I think of EQ2s as Shadow Knight Lite.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But tha aside, I think EQ2 had the chance to further get way from EQLs tank problems and think outside the box only they didnt for some odd reason.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>When I think of a Shadow Knight, I think of a mighty Warrior that combines the art of Necromancy and Dirty Fighting in his style.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As a Shadow Knight, instead or beside the standard  Tanking and DPS equation,  I think of us as using our Necromancy Arts to <STRONG>Cripple </STRONG>our Enemies.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Part of our attack should be Dots and not the Dots we have now but Crippling Dots.    The Caster and Priestly class's have the major Dots and that is as it should be.  But our Dots don't do enough damage to warrent having them as they now stand, but instead of thinking in terms of just DPS for our dots, we should be thinking as to what it should take to be a Warrior that uses Necromancy as our combined fighting Art.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I think our Dots should be 5 Ticks based on the damage and power they cost now BUT with a side effect.   Our dots should be more used for a crippling effect then for pure dmg.  Example, SK dot does 50 Dmg a tick for 5 ticks but drops mobs Str and Agi down such and such.   Other Dots could have other side effects such as Stifle, Power Drain, Mitigation for either spell or dmg reduced while in effect.  Some dots should have a slow componet, since they have a recast time that is normaly way longer then the dots life spawn, let some dots have a Slow effect on combat speed, this would be nice and different at the same time since some class's have self haste.  Well we just slow the mob instead/</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But this should also work for our attacks and nukes, let them have a side crippling effect.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And I think we should get a crippling hit, not a backstab, for we are frontal fighters and we stike to cripple our opponents to.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>That is how I think of a SK, Dirty Warrior that Combines Necromancy in his fighting style, Noblity and fair play is for the weak of heart that want a excuse to be given quater if they are losing the fight.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Damanex]

<P>My vision of a shadowknight would be the offensive fighter -- using DoTs and magical attacks to not only deal dmg but to severely cripple the enemy (various absorbs like our broken STR drain line would be nice, maybe something like drain STA / AGI / Mitigation, maybe some 2h weapon stuns) -- the only true example of this is our level 50 Debuff</P> <P>More effective lifetaps also would be nice</P> <P>Also one ability we lost was the ability to use a cloak of shadows (an invisibility spell) -- I always enjoyed using this being one of the only fighter classes that could sneak around</P> <P>Lastly I would like to see an ability that would allow us to turn on the dps -- possibly something that raises melee / magic dps while alternatively decreasing mitigation / resistance</P> <P> </P>

[Texaster]

<P>I think everyone needs to start playing EQ2 for EQ2 and stop wishing it was EQ1 or EQ live or any other game. I played a shadowknight in EQ1 and I play a shadowknight in EQ2 and I like both of them just fine. Yes they are different from each other but thats the way it should be.  The only heartache I have is with Skills that are bugged. Lets get those fixed before we try changing EQ2 back into EQ1. Just my opinion.</P> <P>Ssythian 43SK Toxx </P>

[Deadjest]

<P>    Its all nice and good to say play EQ2 for EQ2 but when you break it down, all the fighters class's are some what watered down.  It is illogical to say have them fix the spells we have now then work on other class options when they are doing such a massive overhall of the system.    Better to do it all in one shot then to do all that work only to turn around and THEN start changing class perception.</P> <P>As for people wanting the EQL SK vs the EQ2 SK.  I don't think people want the EQL one and all its problems as much as they want the FEEL the EQL SK had.</P> <P>The EQL SK just <STRONG>FELT</STRONG> like a Evil Knight, not a tank with a few disease effects we have now.  EQ2 took a step foward and did a much better job then EQL on making it so all tanks can tank, they still need some work but they CAN tank now.   The issue is they took a step backward by watering what it takes to be a Guardian, Paladin, Shadow Knight, Bezerker, Bruiser and Monk.</P> <P>This post when I read it did NOT have the feel of just another whine fest but sombody who wanted to see what other peoples opinions were like on the Shadow Knight.</P> <P>I just think that if you take a moment to calmly breath and stand back and take a objective look, and think from a RPG perspective and not a me, myself and I tank vs all other tanks, the picture looks different.</P> <P>I think each tank needs to be made on the <STRONG>IDEA</STRONG> they are based on to a much higher degree and THEN balance Tank vs Tank and DPS vs DPS and Utility vs Utility and THEN see what the whole is in compairson to the other tanks.</P> <P>And as a Shawdow Knight I think we should use crippling effects and life taps as our fighting style and let the other tanks have their own specialty and together make a interesting team with our own strengths and weakness.</P> <P> </P>

[Ancatd]

<div></div>Deadjester wrote:they want the FEEL the EQL SK had<hr>You nailed it dead on IMO. I don't want to go back to EQ1, I enjoy tanking in this game but that feel of being an evil force to be reckoned with is lacking.<div></div>

[SonnyA]

<P>My hopes for the SK class is also that it'll be a tank class that lacks on the defense. I don't mind not being able to MT raid mobs or high end named mobs. I'll leave that to those specialized in defense. I want versatility. Something they don't have.</P> <P>I gladly sacrifice my defense for a bit more offense. I hope to gain versatility from invis, fear (crowd control), lifetaps, debuffs, FD, evac, rez. I have some of it, but not enough to compensate for my current lack of defense.</P> <P>I remember Moorgaard once mentioned that in EQ2, fighters would be the main consistent damage dealers, where rogues and wizards were burst damage dealers. I have yet to meet an encounter where that is true. At level 42, my dps is parsed at ~60 if I try really hard. The brigand I group with is always at 90+. That's fine. I just wish I had more utility.</P>

[far]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> SonnyA wrote:<BR> <P> </P> <P>I remember Moorgaard once mentioned that in EQ2, fighters would be the main consistent damage dealers, where rogues and wizards were burst damage dealers. I have yet to meet an encounter where that is true. At level 42, my dps is parsed at ~60 if I try really hard. The brigand I group with is always at 90+. That's fine. I just wish I had more utility.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>DPS really isnt gonna be maxed unless you are attacking from the side or behind due to the mobs ability to block parry ripposte attacks from the front, if you are tanking your dps is irrevelant and not particularly your job, which is to position the the mob (so pets and group members attack from behind and the healers arent getting barraged/knockbacked), and keeping aggro off the healer. I explain that to the people in my group and easily out aggro a healer and the healer backs me up by not healing people who pull aggro, usually people who pull aggro fall into line or leave group which is fine by me.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I know this sounds harsh but if i try to out aggro everyone in group i end combat with 30% power compared to 70-90% for everyone else then after 2 encounters im out of power (even with geb, prismatic, t5 drink). And thats no way to crawl through a dungeon.</DIV>

[xolthar]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> farbe wrote:<BR><BR><BR> <DIV>DPS really isnt gonna be maxed unless you are attacking from the side or behind due to the mobs ability to block parry ripposte attacks from the front, if you are tanking your dps is irrevelant and not particularly your job, which is to position the the mob (so pets and group members attack from behind and the healers arent getting barraged/knockbacked), and keeping aggro off the healer. I explain that to the people in my group and easily out aggro a healer and the healer backs me up by not healing people who pull aggro, usually people who pull aggro fall into line or leave group which is fine by me.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I know this sounds harsh but if i try to out aggro everyone in group i end combat with 30% power compared to 70-90% for everyone else then after 2 encounters im out of power (even with geb, prismatic, t5 drink). And thats no way to crawl through a dungeon.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>I also think DPS is overrated. A taunt will not add DPS but it's important for you to hold aggro, similarly self warding adds no DPS but saves the healer. DPS is only relevant imo if you are pefroming significantly LESS damage than what you should be in your ROLE. So if you're SK tanking and only doing say 5 DPS then there may be a problem. However if your tanking and doing 50 DPS holding aggro, warding and stunning while a warlock is getting 150+ DPS then there is no problem imo.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[far]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> xolthar05 wrote:<BR><BR><BR> <DIV>I also think DPS is overrated. A taunt will not add DPS but it's important for you to hold aggro, similarly self warding adds no DPS but saves the healer. DPS is only relevant imo if you are pefroming significantly LESS damage than what you should be in your ROLE. So if you're SK tanking and only doing say 5 DPS then there may be a problem. However if your tanking and doing 50 DPS holding aggro, warding and stunning while a warlock is getting 150+ DPS then there is no problem imo.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>In moorgards own words tanks are supposed to to be the only class with a fairly even damage curve, and sks are at the forefront, it is the only thing we really bring to the raid table (despoiling mist doesnt seem to be a make or break spell for any event i know of, there are no epic mobs that when people say %t is up, people think to themselves shazbot we must find an sk to go kill %t.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>We dont cure, we dont heal, we dont buff, we dont offer any significant benefit over the other tanking classes, so maximizing your dps is an important thing to do.</DIV>

[Diern]

<P>We are a fighter, fighters are TANKS. the eq2 Shadowknight at least needs vastly improved lifetaps (damage and resistance) too make up for the lack of defense vs paladin / guardian , at least dont ask for utility, because we wont get it that will stand on other archetype's toes. </P> <P>Sad but true. I would be happy if they added some things that made me feel like the evil knight I was in EQL even if they are only cosmetic.</P>

[far]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Diernes wrote:<BR> <P>We are a fighter, fighters are TANKS. the eq2 Shadowknight at least needs vastly improved lifetaps (damage and resistance) too make up for the lack of defense vs paladin / guardian , at least dont ask for utility, because we wont get it that will stand on other archetype's toes. </P> <P>Sad but true. I would be happy if they added some things that made me feel like the evil knight I was in EQL even if they are only cosmetic.</P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>After discussing the issue with a few other sks and pallies on Innothule a few of us have come to the conclusion that as it is an sk is a glorified rogue (200 + dps and evac) in heavy armor, they can tank, but you would really rather not have them do that, unlike other tank classes we dont get much as far as 'tanking' buffs rather we augment someone elses tanking ability.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>/Im looking for some really spiffy sk chain armor in the upcoming expansions, the availabilty of rogue ho starters) </DIV> <DIV>// I keeeeeed i keeeeeed</DIV>

[Diern]

<P>Yeah, but expect our damage too be nerfed in the upcomming "balancing". Actually Im seeing no good comming out of this for shadowknights at all. </P> <P>Sony needs to look too thier original model for improvments. EQL Shadowknights rock, and are great tanks too boot.</P> <P>Chain armor? No No NO!</P><p>Message Edited by Diernes on <span class=date_text>05-26-2005</span> <span class=time_text>03:13 PM</span>

[Luke1]

<DIV>On eqoa (eq for ps2, not as "hardcore" as the pc games), sk's had invis.  It was the same as necros, summon shadows.  Thought I would throw this into the convo after I read above where someone asked something along the lines of "how would we go invis?"</DIV>

[Kazander13]

<DIV>Honestly I think the train needs to be slowed down a bit. Ask any SK who was with that class in EQ1 from the start and they will happily tell you it's nowhere near as bad as it was. It took years for most major SK issue to be fixed and in the end I think we got a huge amount of versatility in EQ1, but it sure didn't happen over night. And to be honest I think we will see that in the end, I at least will more than likely be pleased that I picked SK again to begin with and end my EQ2 career. I played ofn FV in EQ1 (only one char allowed) and not once can I seriously say I regret picking the class. It had it's rough sides yeah but what class doesn't.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now several abilities, good ones in fact are broken, but I choose to work around them until fixed. I know it sucks thinking I have to wait years for something good to come into play. I just hit 29 as of last night and I am really loving the direction it's taking. I guess in the long run the biggest legitimate gripe I ever heard about EQ1( since everyone loves comparing) from most classes was lack of soloability. Most players lacked either the skill or ability to solo and HAD to be in a group. I have not once waited for a group in this game. And soloing when I have to isn't even a bad income of xp.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Long story short it takes patience for an online game because just like in EQ1(here we go again...lol) if you give us something another class is going to say"hey that's not fair, SK's can do (insert load of crap here), what do we get??" And I have a feeling that their new found sense of justice through class balancing isn't going to be compromised anytime soon whether all of us see it as fit or unfit, because everyone has their own opinion of it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Likewise, this is only my two cp.</DIV>

[Soultier]

<i><font color="#ff9933">Personaly i hope this never happens i love my heavy Armor and i love being able too take a beating something scout classes can't do for very long.  If this is what you want why not try a Assassian they are very good  a friend in the same guild as me is a 29 Assassain and she rocks  but also she likes when i'm with her cause she can't take the beating i can take <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />. we have plenty of undeadish bad mojo boogie boogie spells... lucan's pact (makes you a red skele), life Taps, our tainted soul pets, etc. etc. In short if they ever made Sk's a scoutish class i would retire mine forever. </font></i><div></div>