Test Combat Changes and Class.. SK Boost?

[reaper]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Moorgard wrote:<BR> <P>The round of changes currently on Test only deal with the defensive side of things. They won't go live without other changes that are coming.</P> <P>We're making some fundamental changes to the spell system that are in progress right now. We're also determining the relative damage potential of each class and will be adjusting spells and arts to meet that scale.</P> <DIV><STRONG>With fighters, damage potential is weighed against tanking ability. The latter is defined not just by avoidance or mitigation, but by the kind of buffs and abilities they get. Guardians and Paladins get the most defensive-oriented abilities, both for themselves and their groupmates. As a result, they will have the lowest damage output. At the other end of the scale are Bruisers and Monks, with Berserkers and Shadowknights in the middle.</STRONG></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Keep in mind these differences are not wide chasms. A Guardian who upgrades all his damage arts could probably outdamage a Bruiser that puts little effort into upgrading his abilities. Likewise, a Monk who pays attention to gear and arts can be a better pure tank than an unskilled Paladin. The onus for maximizing the potential of a given character is on the player, because that's the one element of class balance that we have absolutely no control over.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Dude.. If they increase <SPAN class=333071818-26042005>our</SPAN> DPS <SPAN class=333071818-26042005>potential </SPAN>to that of a Berserker... <IMG alt="" src="http://www.lostofmistmoore.com/forums/images/smilies/eek.gif" border=0><BR><BR>I think I just wet myself..</FONT><BR></DIV></DIV>

[MirageKnight]

<DIV>Yeah... This statement is toooo controvertial for SK.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Frankly speaking, unless SK has no limit amount of power, zeker dps is just waaaaaaaaaayyyyy higher than SK because of dual wields and arts.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>We tap crap (heal 2 digit when you have over 5k hp), nuke crap (too mnay resists = zero dmg), dmg/power consumption rations is super bad compared to zerker (if SK is zeker like) and melee crap for now.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffcc33 size=5>And again, those standing in MIDDLE doesnt have  job to do in raid unless VERY special ability within.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffcc33 size=5>What the hell designer thinking?</FONT></DIV><p>Message Edited by MirageKnight on <span class=date_text>04-27-2005</span> <span class=time_text>02:47 AM</span>

[far]

<DIV>Not true, zerkers have lots to do in raids.</DIV>

[Shadame]

This is part of of a thread in the testing folder: <div>Moorgard's newest post (as of april 26) states that after combat changes are complete, there WILL be differences in tanking ability between the various fighter classes, unlike what was the company line pre-release. He states:</div> <div> </div> <blockquote dir="ltr"> <div><font color="#ff3300"><strong></strong></font> <hr> </div> <div><font color="#ff3300"><strong>Moorgard</strong></font> Wrote:</div> <div> </div> <div>...With fighters, damage potential is weighed against tanking ability. The latter is defined not just by avoidance or mitigation, but by the kind of buffs and abilities they get. Guardians and Paladins get the most defensive-oriented abilities, both for themselves and their groupmates. As a result, they will have the lowest damage output. At the other end of the scale are Bruisers and Monks, with Berserkers and Shadowknights in the middle....</div> <div> <hr> </div></blockquote> <p>------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ </p> <p>I'm concerned about where this is going for Shadowknights. They are going to be changing around things so SK's will never be "top tier" tanks, yet almost nothing has been said about our plurality of issues. I'm worried that we're going to be lost in the middle... I mean, Paladin's have Oath Strike which, at least in my DPS parsing, does around 350-400 damage at level 36. Cast that every 5 minutes and that's more DPS than my harm touch. Ultimately, we're going to be shaved at both ends and have nothing left in the middle if this keeps up. </p> <p> </p> <div></div>

[Mistmoore-Milaga]

<DIV>For what it's worth, here's Milaga's vision for tanks.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Guardian</STRONG> - meatsheild, defensive arts and high hp</DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Paladin</STRONG> - meatsheild, heal/ward and self buffs</DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Bezerker</STRONG> - aggro master, damage based taunts and debuffs</DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Shadowknight</STRONG> - aggro master, debuffs, buffs and taunts</DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Monk</STRONG> - meatsheild/aggro hybrid, avoidance focused, buffs</DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Bruiser</STRONG> - aggro/meatsheild hybrid, dps focused, debuffs</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Main Tank</STRONG> - <EM>Damage sponge ability</EM> - guardian, paladin, monk, bruiser, shadowknight, bezerker</DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Secondary Tank</STRONG> - <EM>Aggro generating ability</EM> - bezerker, shadowknight, bruiser, monk, paladin, guardian</DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Main Assist</STRONG> - <EM>DPS</EM> - bruiser, monk, bezerker, shadowknight, guardian, paladin</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This makes sense to me, although it might be slighting the monk and bruiser.  It gauruntees that a guardian or paladin should be the main tank (taking the brunt of the nameds attacks), and a zerker or sk should be a secondary tank in raids (aggroing the minions and keeping mobs off the rest of the party.)  Monks and Bruisers can fill in for either of the two in smaller raids, will be wanted for their DPS, group buffs (or debuffs) and the ability to be emergency tanks to taunt if the SK/Zerker can't hold aggro.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Milaga on <span class=date_text>04-27-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:59 AM</span>

[MF2K|Wh]

<DIV>This is exciting. Not sure how I feel about it, but hopefully it will go in the right direction.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Right now I've never been happier with my toon, love my weps, got a master chest 2hander, and just got my 1h prismatic, lovin my skills, I have almost finished upgrading all my 40+ to adept3, and I never have any problems tanking anything.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Hopefully this change will be for the best, and if what Moorgaurd says is actually true, it sounds like it will be a good one.</DIV>

[Margen]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> reaper98 wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Moorgard wrote:<BR> <P>The round of changes currently on Test only deal with the defensive side of things. They won't go live without other changes that are coming.</P> <P>We're making some fundamental changes to the spell system that are in progress right now. We're also determining the relative damage potential of each class and will be adjusting spells and arts to meet that scale.</P> <DIV><STRONG>With fighters, damage potential is weighed against tanking ability. The latter is defined not just by avoidance or mitigation, but by the kind of buffs and abilities they get. Guardians and Paladins get the most defensive-oriented abilities, both for themselves and their groupmates. As a result, they will have the lowest damage output. At the other end of the scale are Bruisers and Monks, with Berserkers and Shadowknights in the middle.</STRONG></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Keep in mind these differences are not wide chasms. A Guardian who upgrades all his damage arts could probably outdamage a Bruiser that puts little effort into upgrading his abilities. Likewise, a Monk who pays attention to gear and arts can be a better pure tank than an unskilled Paladin. The onus for maximizing the potential of a given character is on the player, because that's the one element of class balance that we have absolutely no control over.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Dude.. If they increase <SPAN class=333071818-26042005>our</SPAN> DPS <SPAN class=333071818-26042005>potential </SPAN>to that of a Berserker... <IMG alt="" src="http://www.lostofmistmoore.com/forums/images/smilies/eek.gif" border=0><BR><BR>I think I just wet myself..</FONT><BR></DIV></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Be nice, but we would have to have a serious upgrade in dps or more likely Zerkers are going to be hit with the nerf bat ... not calling for this, just a guess in whats going to happen.  Hope not I just started a Zerker alt.</P> <P>Blackoath 31st Troll Shadow Knight</P>

[Chanliang]

what comes to berserkers their damage isn't as good as brawlers excpet on aoe side so not sure will they really be nerfed but until final combat changes are introduced we can only pray :p <div></div>

[timboi]

<DIV>Hmm im kinda confused here I always run damage parser when in groups and I have NEVER been out damaged by a beserker sometimes I actually do twice the damage of the zeker.  Although they do seem to tank better there dps seems far inferiors to our (mine at least).  I and everyone else that knows me actually think the sk dps rocks the only one in group that usually can out dps me is a warlock or conjurur and sometimes i even out do them.  Just my 2 cents</DIV>

[far]

<DIV>Zerks have insane multi target aggro lock spells that make them primary offtanks, their dps as with all tanks isnt really that big an issue in epic style encounters.</DIV>