Massive nerfage to our tanking ability!

[Joxer]

<DIV>Anyone seen the test-server patch notes yet?</DIV> <DIV>Horrible..</DIV>

[Leatherface77]

<DIV>Where?? this sounds bad</DIV>

[Dracoviol]

actually the patch looks very promising as a sk.  Now if i was a guardian i be [Removed for Content] my pants right now.  They capped defens skill buffs.  That alone is huge to us.   while we can not self buff as high as a guardian depending on were they cap it, we can raid buff equal to a guardian on defense.   What this means is out greatly increase our ability to tank raid content comparitively.  Also content that does desease/poison dmg will show a bigger differance when tanked by a sk vs a guardian.  They also reworked agility again.  It seems high agility will make you be missed more, instead of raising parry chances and will lower dmg bonus's to mob dmg (ie over 100str). <div></div>

[Leatherface77]

So we really wont notice big changes in our tanking ablity in small groups?

[pyroglyph]

<P>What it basically means is that nobody will be "invincible" any longer while tanking encounters with a ton of stacked buffs. It was happening, and now it won't.</P> <P>It would only seem to affect guardians negatively, because they were the ones tanking those encounters, not us.</P> <P> </P>

[Vitriol]

Are they adding anything extra to Knights Stance/Lucan to make up for the loss of the buff to shield stats?

[Joxer]

<DIV>Uhm im not sure but i have read somewhere that the 19% for kite-shields is a type and was a 10%.</DIV> <DIV>If so and adding the fact Knight's Stance will be loosing alot i'd have to say we are getting nerfed</DIV>

[Baelzharon]

<div></div>I'm having mixed thoughts on the upcoming changes.Kite shields are being nerfed to a 10% chance to block (the 19% is a typo).They are taking away our buffs to shield skills, so our Stance line is gonna be nerfed. I hope they give us someting in return for taking away the shield skill increase. Perhaps more Agil?This line does however hold some promise for us:<p>- Melee damage bonuses are now calculated based on the attacker's strength versus the defender's agility.</p><p>We get a lot of buffs that increase our agility, and if the buffs we use now that increase shields gets changed to agility then we'd be basically increasing our mitigation in a sense by reducing the damage bonus of mobs hitting us. As a Ratonga SK this change sounds great <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p></p><p>With the changes to Mitigation, agility, parry etc etc. I am wondering if Races/Classes that can pump up their agility would be better off wearing Medium armor -vs- vanguard, and get the armor bonus for avoidance. It looks like Agility might have more to do with how much damage you take then pure mitigation, or I might be reading it wrong. It's going to definitatly be worth testing.</p><div></div>

[Dracoviol]

how do you know its a typo? only one person said that and they werent a dev <div></div>

[ghosthamm]

Im up in the air on this one. Saw the notes and didn't know what to make of it, nothing I saw showed me signs either way; better or worse?  I guess we will just have to wait and see on this one.  I hope they really test this one out because they have a bad habit of messing up the big patches (to put it in a nice way).

[Leatherface77]

Well we just will have to play the waiting game untill then.

[Case21]

<DIV>I guess I'm missing where this massive nerfage is. I've read over the test notes on combat several times. Really the only thing I see that affects us is the removal of buffs to the shield skill, but then again I haven't had a stance that boosted that in quiet a while.</DIV>

[Uggli]

The sky is falling! Hep me! Hep me! Lets see how it turns out before we start with the "omg SK's suxors" posts please. <div></div>

[Baelzharon]

<span><blockquote><hr>Uggliey wrote:The sky is falling! Hep me! Hep me! Lets see how it turns out before we start with the "omg SK's suxors" posts please. <div></div><hr></blockquote>Exactly, if anything these changes might actually offer us hope that we might able to MT a raid. If Guardians and SK's can hit the same Avoid/Mit cap then what then it comes down to personal tastes/skill on what player to pick. </span><div></div>

[comfortablynu]

So.... like, if all kite shields give 19% block now, is there any advantage to using a master drop shield over a newbie lvl 20 kite shield?

[Dracoviol]

stats is all I can tell <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />. really makes it more worth while to have those cedar imbued ones over my totemic <div></div>

[comfortablynu]

<P><BR> </P> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Baelzharon wrote:<BR><SPAN><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Uggliey wrote:<BR>The sky is falling! Hep me! Hep me!<BR><BR>Lets see how it turns out before we start with the "omg SK's suxors" posts please.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Exactly, if anything these changes might actually offer us hope that we might able to MT a raid. If Guardians and SK's can hit the same Avoid/Mit cap then what then it comes down to personal tastes/skill on what player to pick. <BR></SPAN> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>One problem with that theory. Guardians still have an assload more hitpoints, so they were still the no brainer choice for raid MT.</P>

[Dracoviol]

they do have a assload of hitpoints but given = avoidance, mitigation is the thing that will rule the day.  If you cant stay within your healers ability to heal all the hitpoints in the world wont matter.  this opens up chances in all non warrior based mobs <div></div>

[Siner]

Well calc. evasion still does not stack correctly and give us our full agi buffs, which apparently are going to be extremely important in the new system. Moreover, the parry skill increases from it (and the pally's version) will go away as well. So it will pretty much default to a dinky give like 160AC to your target spell.

[Margen]

<P>Well Guaridans are complaining about Tower vs Kite shield ratio now, they want at least 10pct difference (saw a post stating that it actually is a 10pct difference) ... IMHO opinion this is going to be devastating to SK's.  Plus if I am reading the changes right, Knights stance will lose its blocking buff.  Seems like a double whammy.</P> <P>V/R</P> <P>Blackoath 30th Troll Shadow Knight</P>

[HanktheDwarf]

Don't worry people, I play on test, and I'm here to say, tanking ability sucks for everyone now.  NO ONE can tank anything above a solo green practically.  Slight exageration, but you get the picture.  Granted, this is just a baseline and will be tweaked.  Rest assured that the entire test server is /feedbacking this focker. <div></div>

[Toogel]

Im more worried about the agility / avoidance portion of the patch upcoming.  I tailored my wood elf to have insane agility and the bonuses have helped keep my avoidance very high while still keeping a 45-50% mitigation.  If they nerf our avoidance my tanking ability just hit the crapper. <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If this is the case I hope they allow another respec so I can change all my agility picks to stamina or strength...</DIV><p>Message Edited by Toogeloo on <span class=date_text>04-15-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:03 PM</span>

[Dracoviol]

your agility will still helps alot.  They changed what it helps instead of parry it now helps base avoidance as well as lower dmg mobs do to you.  <div></div>

[Toogel]

As plate wearers, wont our avoidance go way down even with high agility?

[Dracoviol]

it will but so will all plate classes, from indications from posters on test its plain murder right now, but remember they will balance the mobs around it.  So as they tweek it further it will be balanced so we can tank effectively and the effect of agility will be more pronounced.  What I like is the fact that we can now debuff their str and buff our agility lowering the dmg they deal to us. <div></div>

[Rylight]

<P>so let me get this straight, if we already have stats and armor so good and so high that they cap out, wont this make our self buffs (such as contract of shadows and unholy aura) absolutly useless at some point in the game, making our spells a waste of time power and effort???</P> <P>I mean if we worked harder then other people to get our armor tougher then theres, then shouldnt we get the benefit of having an advantage over them? hardcore players after all are going to have better armor because they took more time into it. but if we get capped, a person with great armor may be leveled off with a person with good armor but all his buffs on, because they now both cap at the same place, is this how it is working now???</P> <P>and even though i laughed at first, I actually feel bad for guardians. I mean they knew as a guardian they would get superior defense compared to other tanks, and I new as an sk that I wasnt a guardian but could still tank.</P> <P>also about the shields, I agree, a tower shield should be better then a kite shield, thats common sense. however I dont think a kite shield should be way lower then a tower shield. especially sense thats the only sheild we as crusaders can wield (well, will wield if we have common sense.) I think a kite shield should probably be about 85% of what a tower shield should be. its still very effective, yet still lets those who weild a tower sheild be a little bit more superior. and thats ok</P>