Regaining aggro issue

[Pheeb]

Sorry I have to say this but it is  - I'm at level 36 and have all of my taunt spells at adept I level...I can hold aggro fairly well but somehow regaining aggro is extremely tough without spamming the keyboard and using rescue which has a long timer... I grouped with a 39 assassin yesterday and eventhough I was taunting the mob as much as I could to keep it along with warding - I lost aggro 50% of the time - now trying to regain it was always near impossible....by the time I had it regained, power would be down to 1/4... This really sucks as a tank... on the other hand, some other tank classes don't have this issue as much - checked with a few guildies - a Zerker and a Guardian.... At my level am using Decree of Decay, Disease cloud, inflame, shout, taunt along with wards (Demonstration of Faith, Infernal Pact)... and then I keep getting comments that I should be taunting, etc Where is the HATE [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] it! I know that members should wait before nuking, etc but yesterday there was no nukes... <div></div>

[Rylight]

<DIV>well these next upcoming patches are apperently supposed to be balancing out aggro management from what i've been hearing. lvl 36 huh? do you have shriek of terror yet?? I noticed what then I was hitting that lvl my decrey of decay was turning green and almost becoming useless, fortunatly just as it becomes outdated you get shriek of terror, and since then I have had NO aggro holding problems. the problem is that our AOE taunt is getting weak and there is nothing you can do about it till you get shreik of terror.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>also remember that its the entire groups job to maintain aggro effectivly, not just yours. make sure all the members of the group understand and respect your aggro holding capabilities ( though im not telling you to tell them to slow down for you) just make sure they dont go nuke happy at the beggining of the fight and you should be fine. ( dont assassins have anti-aggro skills?)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>another word of advice is to use your selfbuff and party buff spells in the middle of the fight, however as a 36 sk im sure your aware of that</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>as an sk we get 3 emergency aggro spells, Harmtouch, graven embrace, and rescue. make sure you have at least one of these up at all times ( i wouldnt count to much on graven embrace though) </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>otherwise just wait till you get shriek of terror, then life should get alot easier</DIV>

[Siner]

I agree with Rylight.  Shriek of Terror is, in my opinion, one the top 3 leap abilities in the entire career of a SK.  Once you get this adept 1, you will rarely lose aggro. <div></div>

[Amcaze]

<DIV>I dont lose agro on the first mob, its the others in a group setting that leave me and head to other group members after that first mob dies.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I have SoT and still, 9 times out of 10 when the first mob dies, the rest scatter.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The whole time I am recasting my hate spells and SoT.</DIV>

[SageMarrow]

thats just the aggro bug, just make sure to use a AE attack some time during the fight to make sure that all mobs are engaged and that tends to fix the problem for the most part.

[Pheeb]

Thanks guys for all the suggestions - I just got Shriek of Terror Adept I and I have to say that it is MUCH better... my previous taunts were getting old <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> /cheers ! <div></div>

[Rylight]

<P>good to hear your doing better with shreik of terror, now for your situation Amcaze. I know exactly what you are talking about it, it seems after you kill the first mobs the rest decide to pick their own targets at will, and there is a way to counter that, in fact its quite simple. USE EVERY AOE POSSIBLE!! and not just taunt ones</P> <P>when I pull group mobs I usually start it off like this.</P> <P>diesease cloud, shriek of terror,cruel intentions, sorrow (now thats its aoe), party buff or self ward (unholy aura, call to arms , insatisable hunger, ANY) and  I will eventually top it off with swarming spirits when it gets fixed on the next update. by the time you pull of all these your shreik of terror is about back up and your aggro control problems are a thing of the past.</P> <P>the point is EACH if these skills/spells are AOE and effect all the mobs. espicially when you use cruel intentions AT THE START of battle shortly after your shriek of terror.</P> <P>you'd also be surprised how much self warding and group buffing will effect your hate, addmitingly it probably will not help you regain aggro  but IT WILL help keep it.</P> <P>if you dont believe me send your pet off onto a mob (solo one of course) and let it MT, try to ward yourself or your pet and you will notice you will quickly pick up the aggro. however if you let you pet deal in a few hits and gain some aggro, you might be able to pull off a ward or party buff with out stealing aggro from you pet. its not really alot of hate but as an SK ALL aggro is helpful.</P> <P>Also if the mage in your group says no AOES, TELL HIM OFF!!!! lol, no actually just let him know that you are going to pull of one AOE (cruel intentions) at the beggining at the fight and that he should hold off his mezzing till you do so. if he still doesnt agree with that im sure he will change his mind once he is eating dirt and realizes that gaining hate is a skill you have to take very seriously and cautiously.</P> <P>I dont mind sharing my tactics with other sk's, cause we are literally the most stratigic tank class in the game, and it can be difficult to master if you dont do it right, before I end this just let me remind you that even though we are GREAT off-tanks, we are tanks non-the less, and we need to stop hating on ourselfs and letting everyone else hate on us too, we are GREAT tanks if we know how to use our skills right. all this stupid junk about sk's not tanking well is from classes who dont understand us and other sk's that have no idea what they are doing. ANY SK THAT SAYS HIS PET IS WORTHLESS AND DOESNT USE IT SHOULD HAVE HIS HEAD LOPPED OFF.  because he has no idea what being an sk is all about. and we are also GREAT DPS, combat-stats will prove that in any situation, anyways, later sk nation</P>

[Amcaze]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Rylight wrote:<BR> <P>good to hear your doing better with shreik of terror, now for your situation Amcaze. I know exactly what you are talking about it, it seems after you kill the first mobs the rest decide to pick their own targets at will, and there is a way to counter that, in fact its quite simple. USE EVERY AOE POSSIBLE!! and not just taunt ones</P> <P>when I pull group mobs I usually start it off like this.</P> <P>diesease cloud, shriek of terror,cruel intentions, sorrow (now thats its aoe), party buff or self ward (unholy aura, call to arms , insatisable hunger, ANY) and  I will eventually top it off with swarming spirits when it gets fixed on the next update. by the time you pull of all these your shreik of terror is about back up and your aggro control problems are a thing of the past.</P> <P>the point is EACH if these skills/spells are AOE and effect all the mobs. espicially when you use cruel intentions AT THE START of battle shortly after your shriek of terror.</P> <P>you'd also be surprised how much self warding and group buffing will effect your hate, addmitingly it probably will not help you regain aggro  but IT WILL help keep it.</P> <P>if you dont believe me send your pet off onto a mob (solo one of course) and let it MT, try to ward yourself or your pet and you will notice you will quickly pick up the aggro. however if you let you pet deal in a few hits and gain some aggro, you might be able to pull off a ward or party buff with out stealing aggro from you pet. its not really alot of hate but as an SK ALL aggro is helpful.</P> <P>Also if the mage in your group says no AOES, TELL HIM OFF!!!! lol, no actually just let him know that you are going to pull of one AOE (cruel intentions) at the beggining at the fight and that he should hold off his mezzing till you do so. if he still doesnt agree with that im sure he will change his mind once he is eating dirt and realizes that gaining hate is a skill you have to take very seriously and cautiously.</P> <P>I dont mind sharing my tactics with other sk's, cause we are literally the most stratigic tank class in the game, and it can be difficult to master if you dont do it right, before I end this just let me remind you that even though we are GREAT off-tanks, we are tanks non-the less, and we need to stop hating on ourselfs and letting everyone else hate on us too, we are GREAT tanks if we know how to use our skills right. all this stupid junk about sk's not tanking well is from classes who dont understand us and other sk's that have no idea what they are doing. ANY SK THAT SAYS HIS PET IS WORTHLESS AND DOESNT USE IT SHOULD HAVE HIS HEAD LOPPED OFF.  because he has no idea what being an sk is all about. and we are also GREAT DPS, combat-stats will prove that in any situation, anyways, later sk nation</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV><BR>I do everything you say, and have for some time now. The only time I dont use a Blue AOE is when it can agro others. Otherwise, I stomp on all my Ward, Hate Spells, AE Spells, AE Taunts, and AE Attacks</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Sometimes it works, most of the time it doesnt. I didnt have to worry too much about this untill recently since our guild Guardian has gone AWOL. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The only way I have been more then 75% is when I change targets before the first mob is dead. I can only do this on mobs that I can take the hits though. Its definitly not a productive way to hold agro. Sometimes If its a longer batter I cast my Disease Cloud on each of the group mobs. Then I go back to the original mob. Sometimes that works nicely. Pends on the mob.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It is frustrating and I hope they do fix this.</DIV>

[Pero Salm]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Pheebau wrote:<BR>Sorry I have to say this but it is  - I'm at level 36 and have all of my taunt spells at adept I level...I can hold aggro fairly well but somehow regaining aggro is extremely tough without spamming the keyboard and using rescue which has a long timer...<BR><BR>I grouped with a 39 assassin yesterday and eventhough I was taunting the mob as much as I could to keep it along with warding - I lost aggro 50% of the time - now trying to regain it was always near impossible....by the time I had it regained, power would be down to 1/4...<BR><BR>This really sucks as a tank...<BR><BR>on the other hand, some other tank classes don't have this issue as much - checked with a few guildies - a Zerker and a Guardian....<BR><BR>At my level am using Decree of Decay, Disease cloud, inflame, shout, taunt along with wards (Demonstration of Faith, Infernal Pact)...<BR><BR>and then I keep getting comments that I should be taunting, etc<BR><BR>Where is the HATE [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] it!<BR><BR>I know that members should wait before nuking, etc but yesterday there was no nukes...<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I think we are a mediocre tank.  I could handle maybe one or two mobs with out losing aggro.  If you get like three or more mobs then its alot of harder to keep aggro.  My area taunt doesnt do as good as job as I would like to.  60% of the time I could get most of the mobs in the enchanter on to me.</P> <P>Tho I do have the problem of losing aggro like this gentlemen said.  I could see a guardian tank and really dont have a problem losing aggro once.</P> <P>I find that we shadowknights are light tankers and light damage dealers.  With me not being able to compete with a guardians tanking.  Im now starting to focus on the damage dealing, like getting a good two handed sword.</P> <P><BR></P>

[Rylight]

<P>I swear you guys must be  doing something wrong, and light damage dealers?? <BR>I'm telling you use combatstats, you'll be surprised how much DPS you are contributing.</P> <P>anyways I've been taking groups to the obelisk of lost souls now since lvl 34 (currently 3<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> and I've been fighting those large 5-6 mob shadowman groups without losing aggro once (orange and yellow to me at the time), and I've been down there like 5 times. </P> <P>somethings gotta be wrong here. I am having no trouble doing my job.</P>

[Amcaze]

Im happy for you Ry, maybe those specific mobs dont scatter.The ones in RoV and especially on the Zek and EL boat rides, scatter.I have had some problems in the Bloodlines as well.At least if your not having issues, there is hope it seems. I have tanked for a long time, including in EQ1, and for the life of me cant seem to hold group agro lately.

[Ixnay]

There can be no doubt that our agro just plain sucks compared to guardians.  I have, spam, and know how to use the Adept 3 versions of each non-grey taunt available to me at my level.  My sole focus when tanking is maintaining agro - yet a lower guardian can pull agro from me seemingly on demand at any time, and God help me if I have an over agroing mage or scout class player in group, or a tanking cleric or anyone else who doesn't know how or care to control agro.  Time after time, i struggle through 5+ taunts to get agro back, if I ever do, yet it seems a guardian can snap agro back on demand.  I consider SK agro to be the most broken part of our class, by far.  As someone else in this thread mentioned, I AM SICK AND TIRED of other group members telling me that I should taunt.  When they do this, I tell them to run a log and then they will be able to see me virtually chain casting every single spell I possess that has any hate increase component + Insatiable Hunger.  Then they shut up, but usually suggest that a berzerker or someone else in group should tank instead, even if that person has lower health or level than me.  This frankly sucks and I'm fed up with it.<p>Message Edited by Smileonadog on <span class=date_text>04-04-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:16 AM</span>

[Baelzharon]

There is something wrong with some mobs in some zones. I first noticed this phenomenom in Nek Forest duoing with a defiler. We'd be fighting groups of easy mobs, I am group taunting etc like I am supposed to do but out of no where after the 1st mob dies a few will jump all over the defiler. This happened if the defiler healed me or not, or was even AFK and simply standing there. I've seen this same behaviour happen in RoV, Nek Castle, and recently Runnyeye.  I think there is a fundamental flaw in the agro code, and the SK skill line is just not designed to handle it properly. Hopefully when SoE revamps taunt and looks at agro issues they will find the flaw and fix it. <div></div>

[Pheeb]

Right - the next patch will address the healer aggro issue hopefully - same thing happened to me with a defiler yesterday....and I was taunting like mad in the first place....mob targeted the defiler as soon as I killed the first one in group... <div></div>

[Rylight]

<P>actually amcaze I agree, there is diffently a difference on how some mobs take aggro, the ones in the obelisk of lost souls do seem pretty easy to maintin, but I have noticed some in RE scatter quite often. </P> <P>Also its become clear to me that either there is a minor flaw in the aggro codes(though i dont think this is it) or that indeed some mobs are actually supposed to lose aggro, espically the big ones.</P> <P>now it may sound stupid , but I truly do believe the devs made it so you will most likley loose aggro in some group encounters. but why you ask?? to keep the game interesting and the players alert. It would be almost to easy if you could actually maintain aggro every fight. The game is met to be played stratigically, and everybody has to do there share to keep aggro in its proper place. Of course for those larger groups like on the boat ride you are PROBABLY going to lose aggro, I've even seen guardians lose aggro on that part, but because they are very low lvl mobs (because the group is so large) you can usually let the mage or priest take a few hits without it being life threating. and of course if we didnt loose aggro what would be the since of our emergancy aggro spells such as graven embrace, rescue and harm touch?? </P> <P>believe it or not but I have used ALL three of these to save group members before (yes even graven embrace) </P> <P>like I said it keeps the group aspect of the game interesting, not to say it should happen alot, but I honestly think the game would be boring if I didnt lose aggro now and then. heck It gives me the chance to show the group that If i can lose aggro I can also gain it back, and that can comfort the group knowing that(even though I lost it in the first place <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />) but sometimes that scout or mage will over nuke, and you just gotta take it as it comes.</P> <P>not only that, but the devs did make it clear that the mobs would sometimes be smart enough to go after the healer in the group ( though I honestly think that just means that the healer is over buffing and not really AI) but who knows? some mobs say "get the cleric!!" or "take out the warrior first!!!" maybe they do sometimes use their low intellegence to their advantage</P>

[Lofar]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Pheebau wrote:<BR>Sorry I have to say this but it is  - I'm at level 36 and have all of my taunt spells at adept I level...I can hold aggro fairly well but somehow regaining aggro is extremely tough without spamming the keyboard and using rescue which has a long timer...<BR><BR>I grouped with a 39 assassin yesterday and eventhough I was taunting the mob as much as I could to keep it along with warding - I lost aggro 50% of the time - now trying to regain it was always near impossible....by the time I had it regained, power would be down to 1/4...<BR><BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>My main is an assassin but I also have a shadowknight alt, so I think I can share a little wisdom with you on this subject. First, I'm surprised you even managed to get the agro back from an assassin 3 levels higher than you. I can tell you as an assassin that once I get agro it's very hard for ANY tank near my level to get it back unless I stop attacking completely. Furthermore, I have yet to meet a tank (again, equal to my level) that I can not steal agro from if I go all out in attacking. Assassins have to pace themselves our they will get agro no matter what the tank does about it. So you shouldn't be feeling bad about this at all.</P> <P>Now, having said that; I will admit that some classes do hold agro better than others. With a Guardian tank, I pretty much have to go all out to steal agro. Beserkers, I have to pace myself or I'll get agro. Shadowknights and paladins, I have to sit there and count to 5 in between specials or I will take agro from them. Bruisers and Monks, I haven't really grouped with enough as MT to get a good feel for. Some have been about equal to shadowknights, some about equal to beserkers. </P> <P> </P> <P><BR> </P>

[Farba]

<DIV>The problem from the original poster was of course the agro bug, sometimes after dropping one mob in a multi mob grp the rest will reset their agro lists, so whoever is currently casting a spell is a primary target.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As for SK holding agro, i find i do fairly well, the trick as i see it, is when i am a MT i only taunt, a MT should allways be on 90% or more mana all the time (never know when a flurry of taunts will be needed). Its not our job in that situation to do damage, there are other classes that are not only able to do more than us, but do it for cheaper mana cost.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If you are going to tank, be a tank, if you are dps, get out the 2h and cut sick <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </DIV>