Ranged items and balance: what do we lose out on?

[pyroglyph]

<DIV>Crusaders are the only melee class that do not have ranged items available.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Take a look at the stats available on your average bow or bandolier.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Why do we miss out on this?</DIV>

[lllo0o0ol]

We have spells that have better range, at least as a lvl 32 SK, we do. I have grouped with and tested distance pulls with my spells versus a bow and I won every time. Plus, I am a Knight, I don't want some chump bow! <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <div></div>

[frostgo]

<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=3>Whats we are missing is not the range pulling but the stats on the ranged items, read more carefully :smileywink:</FONT></DIV>

[lllo0o0ol]

<span><blockquote><hr>frostgore wrote:<div><font face="Comic Sans MS" size="3">Whats we are missing is not the range pulling but the stats on the ranged items, read more carefully :smileywink:</font></div><hr></blockquote>Show me stats on a ranged weapon at whatever lvl you are at and I will say we are not missing much, unless kiting is your thing.</span><div></div>

[DrAtla]

Yeah, the actual ranged attack doesn't matter, we have decent ranged attacks. It's the stats on the range items. In Everquest 1 there were many random items that could fill up the various slots besides the standard longbow/shortbow or whatnot that all classes could use. What happened to that?

[Ldymacbe]

We're also missing out on procs...when they have a bow equipped that procs, they get that chance even when they use their melee weapons.  The stats tick me off the worst, but this is a close second. <div></div>

[frostgo]

<FONT face="Courier New" size=3></FONT> <DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=3>As a level 42 I saw some great bows, some with procs as well, and we are missing a lot, that's unbalanced IMO</FONT></DIV>

[pyroglyph]

<P>To really put things into perspective, here's an example of a quest bow that's not terribly difficult to get, and equips at level 28:</P> <P><A href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/en/item.vm?itemId=14906" target=_blank>http://eq2players.station.sony.com/en/item.vm?itemId=14906</A></P> <P>For those who don't have access, stats read as follows:</P> <P>+3 Int, +9 Agi, +4 Str, +5 Wis, +36 health, +39 power</P> <P> </P> <P>That's nicer stats than on any other piece of gear I own, except maybe SBH.</P>

[Baelzharon]

I've had an ongoing issue with this, and there's a thread in the Item board about a possible solution. Take a look and post some ideas, and lets hope the devs take notice. We're not the only class that doesn't make any  use of the ranged slot, and it doesn't make any sense. <div></div>

[vwlsskng]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> pyroglyphix wrote:<BR> <P>To really put things into perspective, here's an example of a quest bow that's not terribly difficult to get, and equips at level 28:</P> <P><A href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/en/item.vm?itemId=14906" target=_blank>http://eq2players.station.sony.com/en/item.vm?itemId=14906</A></P> <P>For those who don't have access, stats read as follows:</P> <P>+3 Int, +9 Agi, +4 Str, +5 Wis, +36 health, +39 power</P> <P>That's nicer stats than on any other piece of gear I own, except maybe SBH.<BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Ugh. That's nauseating. They should give us the bow skill, like they did in EQL, but have it cap very low, just as it did then (at 75 skill). No tower shields, no ranged items . . . bah!</DIV>

[Nocifer Deathblade]

<P>Aye..  2 Scenarios for stat rebalancing</P> <P>1. Remove any stats like hp/power, str etc off all bows except dmg/delay and proc so we won't lose out on stats in empty ranged slot.</P> <P>Con: Other classes who can equip bows will scream at that nerf.</P> <P> </P> <P>2. Give us idols or stat items that can be equipped in ranged slot. Doesn't have to be a bow or throwing items or whatever but nice stat enchanting item for us to enjoy. </P> <P>No Con. Everyone are happy cuz they still use bow OR they can use idols or ranged items. Crusaders AND CASTERS will be happy with the change. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I'm sure that any other classes won't give any crap if we got stat usable in ranged slot. It's harder to convince SOE to give us bow/throwing weapons than to give us idols or items that serves no purpose other than stat increaser.</P> <P> </P> <P>I think #2 is the best solution.</P><p>Message Edited by Nocifer Deathblade on <span class=date_text>03-28-2005</span> <span class=time_text>08:48 AM</span>

[vwlsskng]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Nocifer Deathblade wrote:<BR> <P>Aye..  2 Scenarios for stat rebalancing</P> <P>1. Remove any stats like hp/power, str etc off all bows except dmg/delay and proc so we won't lose out on stats in empty ranged slot.</P> <P>Con: Other classes who can equip bows will scream at that nerf.</P> <P> </P> <P>2. Give us idols or stat items that can be equipped in ranged slot. Doesn't have to be a bow or throwing items or whatever but nice stat enchanting item for us to enjoy.</P> <P>No Con. Everyone are happy cuz they still use bow OR they can use idols or ranged items. Crusaders will be happy with the change. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I'm sure that any other classes won't give any crap if we got stat usable in ranged slot. It's harder to convince SOE to give us bow/throwing weapons than to give us idols or items that serves no purpose other than stat increaser.</P> <P> </P> <P>I think #2 is the best solution.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>#3 Implement Heritage Quest: Idol of the Thorned. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[Nocifer Deathblade]

Hehe, bet that would-be-hertiage idol of the thorned only equipped in activable slot. ;(

[Siner]

the double whammy that hurts about this is that the our spells which give us stats that could be used to possibly close the gap created by the lack of ranged slot dont stack i.e. strength taps / calculated evasion / etc.<div></div>

[ghosthamm]

<DIV>it makes a difference, though a small difference now...even to higher lvls.  The game is designed for 200 lvls? right.  I'm sure all thoughs opposed to it / don't think it is a big deal now might change thier tunes when there are ranged weapons with +20, +30, ......etc stats on them later ,not to mention the procs.</DIV>

[Margen]

<P>Why don't they just make those quest for bows give an option for holy/unholy symbols that can go in the range slot with same stats as bows.  We won't be shooting arrows thus not breaking the role playing issue, and a symbol stands with the conception of a holy/unholy knight.  Seems a simple fix, and makes sense to me at least.  Wish Sony would respond to this issue.</P> <P>Blackoath 27th Troll Shadow Knight</P>

[pyroglyph]

<P>It's pretty plain to me that the only reasonable solution is going to be to create items that crusaders + casters can equip into their ranged slots.</P> <P>There's a huge difference between getting a skill or two every level, and being able to place an item chock-full of stats into an extra slot at leisure. Any buffs or skills we have do not make up for the huge disparity.</P> <P>The way I see it, our activateable slots are not suitable replacements either...they more or less represent a pair of empty bagslots that we cannot put bags into (like in EQ, putting your Jboots or Circlet of Shadow into an empty bagslot to make it ready to use). The handful of activateable items that sport stats currently should be switched to range-slot items, and no activateable items should be given stats.</P> <P>This could also create a boatload of new recipes for crafters.</P>

[gfgf]

<FONT face="Comic Sans MS">Why not make it so range items stats only effect you while your using the ranged wep?</FONT>

[lllo0o0ol]

<span><blockquote><hr>Margen wrote:<p>Why don't they just make those quest for bows give an option for holy/unholy symbols that can go in the range slot with same stats as bows.  We won't be shooting arrows thus not breaking the role playing issue, and a symbol stands with the conception of a holy/unholy knight.  Seems a simple fix, and makes sense to me at least.  Wish Sony would respond to this issue.</p> <p>Blackoath 27th Troll Shadow Knight</p> <div></div><hr></blockquote> Best idea I've heard thus far. It has a certain style to it that fits the class/classes really well.</span><div></div>

[Margen]

<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS">gfgfgf wrote: Why not make it so range items stats only effect you while your using the ranged wep?</FONT> </DIV> <DIV>*************************************************</DIV> <DIV>Have to disagree on that idea, I personaly don't think the answer is to nerf the other tank classes, which is what that idea would be.  The answer IMHO is to give Knights an option to stay on par with other tank classes.</DIV> <DIV>V/R</DIV> <DIV>Blackoath 27th Troll Shadow Knight</DIV>

[pyroglyph]

With AGI becoming more important to us as a stat, this issue really needs to be addressed.

[cocoa_boy]

<P>This issue has disturbed me since I began playing EQ2. </P> <P>As posted elsewhere in this thread, the stats on the ranged item is an important feature that we are lacking.</P> <P>The dev team really should look into breaching this gap for Crusaders and Casters.</P>

[Margen]

<P>Don't think anything will ever be done on it, if we got anything to put in range spot you know the guardians would cry a river.  Sony knows this issue I am sure and they really just don't care because Crusader community is much smaller then warriors.</P> <P>Blackoath 30th Troll Shadow Knight</P>

[pyroglyph]

<P>It's not just warriors.</P> <P><EM>Every single melee class except crusaders can equip a stat item to their range slot.</EM></P> <P>Half the classes in the game, in other words.</P> <P>Why do we lose out? </P> <P>The fact that caster classes cannot use ranged items is a lesser issue, in my eyes. In the name of balance, it should also be addressed, however.</P> <P>Solutions are obvious, and easy to implement.</P> <P>Are we being "penalized" for something? Do we have some skill or ability so powerful, that in the name of balance, we are required to forgo the use of that slot?</P> <P>(laf)</P> <P>A response on the issue would be much appreciated.</P>

[far]

<DIV>Personally I wouldnt trade unholy strength for a bow... but thats just me</DIV>

[Bruener]

I have posted in nurmerous other threads about the inequalitity that the range items bring about.  I want the stats from a real nice bow.  Yeah I know I have spells that can pull mobs....and I use them.  I DO NOT WANT A BOW TO PULL MOBS.  I want the *$%#&! stats that my counter-part tank classes get that puts them just that little step up from me.  While the difference doesn't seem too significant now, it just gets worst the higher you go level wise.  So when SOE does extend this game past that 100 level mark there is going to be a huge gap in stats between those that can use ranged slot items and those that can't.  So, why wait until that time to fix the issue....why not address it right now while the difference isn't so big.

[Zhern]

What ever happened to slings and bullets? I thought EQII was going to have them? <div></div>

[Solo_m]

<P>Well the othe rmain thing is they give us Axes as a skill of which we cannot properly use Dual-Wield Axes, or use throwing axes because we cannot arm more than one at a time because we cannot wear a bandolier, so of the 4 varieties of axes we can only effectively use 2 types and the third is a reduced effectiveness compared to a single-handed weapon.</P> <P> </P> <P>Oh well another rant.</P>

[pyroglyph]

<P>I consolidated these issues and took them to the Items and Equipment board again. It'll probably get ignored by Sony like the other 20 threads, but like the stubborn [Removed for Content] I am, I refuse to let it drop. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>If you guys have anything to add, please let me know.</P> <P>Thread can be found here: <A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=items&message.id=32987" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=items&message.id=32987</A></P>

[Margen]

<P>Yeah I noticed that the rest of community basicly spit on us Shadow Knights again.  Shame, your points where well made.</P> <P>V/R </P> <P>Blackoath 31st Troll Shadow Knight</P>