Just a not so random thought

[Dracoviol]

<DIV>You just maybe our lack of MTing is do to perception vice reality</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Just maybe its more logical to use the tank with the highest ac vs poison against a mob like venekor then a tank with the highest vs crushing/slashing.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>just maybe base mitigation and avoidance are misleading stats do to mobs doing ~40% via normal melee dmg and 60% abilities/procs.  Making your ac against these types the most important ac.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Just maybe alot of mobs that are currently difficult to kill now, are not really hard at all.  But people are using the wrong tank for the job.  Making moorgards statement that all tanks can tank equally well just not in all situations really valid.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Just maybe the tank that fits the healing capacity of the raid the best for a certain mob is the best tank not the one with the most ac/hp.  Being as we have no complete heal and dmg types are more varied and defenses against them more specific in eq2 vice eq1.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Just maybe the reason we are not MTing has nothing to do with  our ability to tank but rather a 100% to do with false assumptions and eq1 <EM>philosophical carry overs.</EM></DIV> <DIV><EM></EM> </DIV> <DIV>Just maybe being as a sk will always have more desease/poison mitigation being of = gear to any tank.  We should focus on strengthening a already obvious advantage.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Just maybe Its not what we lack as sk's that we need its focus on its what we do better.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Just maybe what we are told is true is not really what "is"</DIV>

[JRav]

<DIV>       Great post, a lot of those things should be taken into consideration and I agree with many of them. However I especially believe many of your ideas would apply to the non raiding atmosphere as well/ Most importantly is the perception that we are "bad" tanks. In all actuality I believe we are the most balanced tanks as we can do many things that other tanks can not, we just seem to be the best at nothing except lifetaps which are considered awefully underpowered as of now. In terms of staying alive I have been out-tanking my berserker friend a level higher than me. Of course he also occasionally steals agro from me but thats a berserker strength in itself. This is due to lifetaps, my adept 3 ward, and also knights stance/lucans pact. Our main issue above all right now is our power consumption rate which seems ridiculously too fast. I also believe we are in the top 2 solo'ing tanks along side the pally. <DIV>       As for using our defensive advantages to become raid tanks.... I am unsure on this but it is a possibility. Shadowknights 35+ start to become a lot more useful and once you ding 40 the dps numbers skyrocket which is also an advantage. I know some high level shadowknights would disagree with this, but for those of you who have yet to get past 30, you should be hopeful. Once again, great post.</DIV></DIV>

[Vrug]

<P>Bravo- great post.    I had read all the posts before I hit 50 stating that I was not a real tank.  Now that I have been 50 and tanked a few epic mobs I say bullpucky.  </P> <P>Vrugor 50 Shadow Knight of Befallen</P>

[xxalan]

yep, there is a lot of eq1 dogma in this game that is hindering peoples experience and causing a lot of whining.  I have been in groups with no healer and we have great exp/low downtime if we go after certain mobs, and have been slowed down by healers as well.  But as every person who played eq1 will tell you, a group needs a tank/healer to even get started.

[ScatteringCats]

<P>Amen...couldnt have said it better myself.  I think the majority of the eq2 community just took eq1 and started up again in eq2, brining tons and tons of misinformation, which was allowed to take hold because none of it has ever been disproven.  All the people blabbin bout why guardians are better than sk, zerkers beter than sk, blah blah, hav eyet to show me any evidence of that fact.   How bout gimme logs from the same raid mob using 2 different class fighters?  If this has been posted, my apologies, but i read the boards daily and have never seen one itty bit of real evidence.</P> <P>Up to this point, I have never had a problem being MT and non of my healers have ever had  a problem with me being MT.  Granted I am just now getting to the higher levels of the game ( due to way too many Alts <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> but hey, i love playing eq2, not min/maxing ), but we have had to take on some serious mobs for our level for access quests/etc.  And I have never, not even once, died or lost that encounter.   </P> <P>Ok just wanted to say hear hear to the original poster.  I think we as the SK community need to be the ones to think outside the box and vindicate ALL the fighter classes.</P> <P> </P> <P>Vaxis Shadowmoon</P> <P>33 ShadowKnight - Nektulos</P> <P> </P>

[Valam]

<P>I agree with what is said here but also i don't think we can consider SK balanced because at lv50 he is better at tanking 4-5 mobs</P> <P>if SK have a bad reputation as tank it is that because 95% of the game he is an inferior than others, just look at stats of other tanks of same level and the differences are quite clear.</P> <P>With that i'm not saying that the SK can't tank or is total crap... as said in another post i think that most of the time is the player that make a good tank and not the template and a good SK can tank well in most situations...</P> <P>the problem is that in these situations and in most roles another tank (used by a skilled player) can perform better than the SK.</P> <P> </P>

[Dracoviol]

Valamir I understand what your saying but I dont think your seeing the full spectrum of what im saying. If this is true for sk's then its true for paladins, berserkers, and guardians. I can't even attempt to say brawlers as they are not balanced now, but I think they will be eventually. If each of the four plate tanks has mobs they are the best against and you add that up you will find out there is far less advantages for a guardian then has been stated. More importantly a guild that values diversity over exclusivity will be the one least effected by future patches and more able to consume all the content.Also it should be noted when looking at stats 99.9% of the population look at ac and hp and stop there. This was fine in eq1. In that game ac typically determined the quality of secondary stats such as resists. Warrior armor was always superior to any other type. But in eq2 ac is but just one aspect of your ability to tank a encounter. We also dont have a resist cap either. more importantly we wear the same armor and get the same mitigation. But our secondary stats vary greatly between tank to tank. This is do to specific buffs each class has a abundance of that no other tank does. In most situations there is always going to be a better tank than any one specific tank. But this is not true just for sk's this is true for all the tank classes. EQ2 I think was designed with the specialty tank in mind not the all around tank.I am not going to say there is not somethings in this game that are imbalancing. But there are alot of things that are balanced. Sk's do have issues but its not the issue of us being bad tanks or the worst tank in most situations. It mostly of perception. If you dont know how good your class is how can you expect anyone else to. More importantly if you seriously think you suck because of the class you play even if they "fix" the class they failed to fix the problem, you. Currently 95% of the population thinks we suck as a class. I dont blame them though. I blame the sk community as a whole for allowing this misconception to exist. How can any one sk expect to get a shot at tanking a mob "HE" should tank better then anyone else, if he thinks he sucks. If im a guild leader im sure not going to let the guy that says how much he sucks all the time be my MT. I dont care if he is the hand of god delivered to kill all evil. With that attitude I wont let him tank a beatle in the commons. If we want to be usefull for raids its our job to fight for chances on mobs that we do best on and to show our guilds what we really can do not what they think we can.If I were to reccomend changes to our class its not going to be can you make us suck less or can I carry the guardians jock strap during a raid.Here is what I would reccomend as changes.Def buffs as currently are imbalanced. They stated this and while I initially disagree I do agree now. I realized that pre-agi nerf we didnt have a imbalance but post agi nerf our one way of making up for the disparity was gone. However unlike the monks we didnt get a fix for our loss.I have to possible solutions for this one is balance def between plate classes at archtype lvl and make them equal. The alternative is to also give us buffs to spell avoidance. I Like this one the most. This would create a clearer differance on what mobs we should tank and provide us and paladins a clearer advantage on mobs.Also I think they should introduce prime dmg mobs of more then melee dmg. Currently if their is a warrior mob we have no true tanking advantage for any aspect of that mobs ability to deliver dmg to us. But on our mobs guardians defense skill buffs give them a advantage on melee portion of the dmg. I think they should make mobs that do all of one spell dmg type and have it check off of spell avoidance vice melee rolls.Some people out there think we suck, all I can say is they havent grouped with me. Because I know for a fact that I dont.<p>Message Edited by Dracoviolet on <span class=date_text>03-31-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:48 AM</span>