Knights and Weapons, or : Why cant we use polarms & axes?

[Joxer]

<DIV>Like the title suggest, im wondering "Why" we cant use these, while it's clearly stated we can..</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Some proof that states we can :</DIV> <DIV><A href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/pdfs/EQII%20Revised%20Manual%20FINAL.PDF" target=_blank>http://eq2players.station.sony.com/pdfs/EQII%20Revised%20Manual%20FINAL.PDF</A></DIV> <DIV>The "updated manual" in PDF format, states clearly under Shadowknights :</DIV> <DIV>Armor........ Heavy, Vanguard</DIV> <DIV>Weapons.. Axe, Sword, Polearm, Flail, Hammer, Mace, Staff, and more</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So err.. Can We Get a Fix?!</DIV> <DIV>I'd like to use my Shiny Brass Halberd, thank you very much!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>-J</DIV>

[Suinim]

<DIV>you know i asked the same thing and if you dig thru other forums you will find this question asked a lot. So why do we not get any responce from SOE? Or better still why do they not just fix this issue? I don't know and i will not pretend to know. I don't want to be a guardian nor do i want to be a Zerker but there is no reason our weapon base is so very limited. Even better still there is no real reason why we are ignored entirely on this issue....</DIV>

[Ravaan]

<DIV>I was hoping to use a polearm before the game came out. It really upset me when i found out we could not.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Bump for allowing Shadowknights to use Polearms.</DIV>

[Turkeyme]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> JoxerNL wrote:<BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So err.. Can We Get a Fix?!</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P> </P> <P>Nope. Sorry... SK is a fated class indeed. Go make a Templar or something.</P>

[Urg]

Knights use polearms. This isn't even in question. It's not like we need to be restricted to swords/hammers from a balance perspective.. we're useless in raids as is and none of the best weapons are polearms anyway. Flavorwise.. knights. use. polearms.

[Suinim]

<DIV>ya but it is not just the polearm skill that we lack, do not forget the other weapon types that as a fighter/knight class we should should be able to use</DIV>

[Joxer]

<DIV>Well i had send a PM to Moorguard about this, with a direct link in it to this post, asking if this was intended or a bugg.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Nothing else that can be done but wait.</DIV>

[Dazzler-]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> JoxerNL wrote:<BR> <DIV>Well i had send a PM to Moorguard about this, with a direct link in it to this post, asking if this was intended or a bugg.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Nothing else that can be done but wait.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> Whatever you do, for the love of god dont post his reply if you indeed get one, although I suspect you would have an easier time finding Osama Bin Laden before getting a straight answer in reguards to this subject. Sad isnt it?

[Joxer]

<DIV>Hehe i wont post anything he sends me.</DIV> <DIV>But no answer yet, i'd just like a straight answer from a dev knowing if this is a bugg or intended...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I dont see how it can be so hard to come in a fourm and say : yes it is intended, or no it is a bugg, we are looking into it.</DIV> <DIV>(it took me 30 seconds in totall to type both way`s btw <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Everywhere i look it is said Knights are supposed to be able to use staves/axes/polearms, yet reality shows us diffrently..</DIV> <DIV>So something is is quite wrong here *sigh*</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Margen]

<DIV>This is one of the things that really ticked me off, I remember when I reached crusader status, had a pretty nice ax (don't remember name, been a while), figured I could use it for a while before I would out grow it. Yes, I believed the manual and hadn't researched it on the web (silly me <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> ).  Well you all know what happened, suddenly I was with out a weapon LOL. Fortunatly I did have a crappy mace I was using for keeping crushing up, but still ticked me off.  Plus I think it would look cool as hell if my Troll Sk was cleaving the skulls of his enemies with a nasty looking ax <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> .</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Another problem I had was that there was no quest for 1hs weapons in Freeport (least I didn't find any) for between 10-20, every weapon I quested and got was an ax, a duel weild or a club/mace.  At around 14 I finished quest for Doom Stick, and used that till 19 when I got my SK sword (You don't look heroic wacking mobs with a stick <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> ).  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>IMHO, they should either put our class in line with what is in their manual, or at least increase the number of 1hs weapons that can be quested for.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Ok rant over <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thanks and good hunting</DIV> <DIV>Blackoath 22nd Level Troll Shadow Knight</DIV>

[far]

<DIV>Wait till you find out that beriks and ghoulbane require you travel over to the goodie goodie side of the world, then you will start kicking yourself.</DIV>

[troglar]

Heh, be careful pointing out decriptions listing what we can and cannot use. The deflier class had a spell that stated that it cast a random disease proc. It actually cast a random fear proc. Instead of fixing the spell to resemble the description, they fixed the description to resemble the spell. If we do see any info on SK and pally weapon choices, it will be to the effect of "we have corrected a mis-statment in the weapon choices of...in the manul. It will now state that Sk's and Pallys were only intended to use swords and hammers..."

[tlatoa]

<DIV>I agree. Knights "should" be able to use polearms/halberds etc. Axes would be nice, but that doesn't really fit my mental image of knights. /shrug</DIV>

[The_Witchfind]

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> tlatoani wrote:<BR> <DIV>Axes would be nice, but that doesn't really fit my mental image of knights. /shrug</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>Watch John Boorman's "Excalibur", and prepare to have your mental image altered <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[Arillonahia]

<DIV>Plenty of evidence in history of knights using plenty of differing weapons, we're not just considering the 'western ideal' of a knight, by that I mean the romantisised Anglo-French ideal ( a la King Arthur, Galahad etc)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><IMG src="file:///C:/Documents%20and%20Settings/Administrator/My%20Documents/My%20Pictures/Arthurian_Britain_Knight.jpg">     Spear?</DIV> <DIV><IMG src="file:///C:/Documents%20and%20Settings/Administrator/My%20Documents/My%20Pictures/grknight.jpg">     Bit of halbarad or large axe action there yes?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><IMG height=593 src="file:///C:/Documents%20and%20Settings/Administrator/My%20Documents/My%20Pictures/tknight.gif" width=436>Little more 'teutonic' spear action for you.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><p>Message Edited by Arillonahia on <span class=date_text>03-15-2005</span> <span class=time_text>06:26 AM</span>

[CountDrunkula]

<p>Message Edited by CountDrunkula on <span class=date_text>03-16-2005</span> <span class=time_text>12:02 AM</span>

[vwlsskng]

<DIV>I would appreciate a Developer making a simple post stating that the manual has been incorrect this entire time and that it wasn't an oversight in design when knights were restricted from said weapons. You're right, it's not very difficult. I'm guessing that there's something up in the air here. Perhaps it was a grievous error on their part and the re-coding is being delayed, either that or they're completely apathetic. Given how many hundreds of posts, across multiple threads, have been made, one would think they'd like to shut us up after a while.</DIV>

[Suinim]

<DIV>I am not going to assume anything but a responce would be very nice.</DIV>

[DrAtla]

I still have not figured out why they have restricted us so much either, it's not like we are excellent with the weapons that we do use, we are just mediocre. In addition, other tanks like berserkers and guardians can dual wield as well as use tower shields and use more different types of weapons than us? I wouldn't mind in the least if we were uber in some other way to make up for it, but we really have little going for us, so why just make it worse.

[far]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> DrAtlasX wrote:<BR> I wouldn't mind in the least if we were uber in some other way to make up for it, but we really have little going for us, so why just make it worse.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I dont think any other class has a pet that so closely resembles at [Removed for Content], perhaps that has something to do with it? Or perhaps because we look so scarey with a hawk. (which really should be a ranger or predator type pet?) </P> <P>How hard would it be to change the blob into a pitch black sphere which is at least kinda more inline, as for the hawk why not have a zombie type thing come out of the ground attack a few rounds and disappear... or maybe it really is just me.<BR></P>

[Moorgard]

<DIV>The manual is incorrect; crusaders have the weapon skills they were meant to have. Their weapon selection is intended to be more limited than warriors.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>That said, I talked about this issue with the designers today. There doesn't seem to be any resistance to giving crusaders the ability to use axes and great axes, which would let you wield items like the SBH. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>However, polearms would require the piercing technique, which is not something we plan to add to crusaders at this time.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This change probably won't make it into Live Update #5, but it can probably be worked into #6.</DIV>

[Ishnar]

<DIV>Great axes and axes were what I really wanted anyway.   I don't know of any stories that portrayed anti-paladins using lances.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>*Cry* I will be able to use a Halbard agian!!!  *happy*</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Ishnar</DIV>

[Chou]

What about moving lances to their own lance category isntead of using plain piercing? Feels so wrong being a knight on a horse and not being able to use a lance, halberd and axe I could live w/o but...Also what about lances using more of a stabbing animation also instead of having them slash downward alot of the time like a halberd?

[Dogm]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Moorgard wrote:<BR> <DIV>The manual is incorrect; crusaders have the weapon skills they were meant to have. Their weapon selection is intended to be more limited than warriors.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>That said, I talked about this issue with the designers today. There doesn't seem to be any resistance to giving crusaders the ability to use axes and great axes, which would let you wield items like the SBH. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>However, polearms would require the piercing technique, which is not something we plan to add to crusaders at this time.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This change probably won't make it into Live Update #5, but it can probably be worked into #6.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Thank you.</DIV>

[Orkoma]

<DIV>Axes and Great Axes sounds great Moorguard! Happy Pally here! =)</DIV>

[CountDrunkula]

<blockquote><hr>Moorgard wrote:<DIV>The manual is incorrect; crusaders have the weapon skills they were meant to have. Their weapon selection is intended to be more limited than warriors.</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>That said, I talked about this issue with the designers today. There doesn't seem to be any resistance to giving crusaders the ability to use axes and great axes, which would let you wield items like the SBH. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>However, polearms would require the piercing technique, which is not something we plan to add to crusaders at this time.</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>This change probably won't make it into Live Update #5, but it can probably be worked into #6.</DIV><hr></blockquote>Good news indeed!And Thank you for the response! (previous comment about lack of responses edited and retracted)<p>Message Edited by CountDrunkula on <span class=date_text>03-16-2005</span> <span class=time_text>12:03 AM</span>

[far]

<DIV>I wonder if i can buy my SBH back from the vendor /sigh</DIV>

[Sans]

<DIV>WOW! Super news!!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now, I hate to do this but....can you explain not being able to use Tower Shields now? </DIV>

[Foolsfolly]

As a scout, I've always wanted to be a damage dealer who could use big piercing weapons like harpoons and great spears. Would it really be so game breaking to let us dual weild? We do big damage so we should be able to hold big weapons!

[Fennir]

yes it's called you can do things other tanks can't.

[Siner]

<blockquote><hr>Moorgard wrote:<DIV>The manual is incorrect; crusaders have the weapon skills they were meant to have. Their weapon selection is intended to be more limited than warriors.</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>That said, I talked about this issue with the designers today. There doesn't seem to be any resistance to giving crusaders the ability to use axes and great axes, which would let you wield items like the SBH. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>However, polearms would require the piercing technique, which is not something we plan to add to crusaders at this time.</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>This change probably won't make it into Live Update #5, but it can probably be worked into #6.</DIV><hr></blockquote>Awesome!!

[Suinim]

<DIV>Wow. thank you for the responce. so talk of axe and great axe? what about duel wield? </DIV>

[Ishnar]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Sansin wrote:<BR> <DIV>WOW! Super news!!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now, I hate to do this but....can you explain not being able to use Tower Shields now? </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>I think because Crusaders were heavy calvary, at least, that is how they are portrayed in stories.  Calvary has no use for tower shilelds because they are impractical for horseback fighting.  The design of the crusader class is a big nod to old fashoned knights which mostly fought from horseback. Even though the armor was balanced well it was still a large amount of weight to carry unaided for long periods of time.</FONT></DIV> <DIV></FONT> </DIV> <DIV>l think devs should just go with it and make special techniques that only work on horseback, just as berserkers have techniques that only work when berserk.   I don't want a tower shiled because some other class uses tower shields.  Give me better wards more selection, don't make me more like that other guy.</FONT></DIV> <DIV></FONT> </DIV> <DIV>Ishnar</FONT></DIV>

[Quilli]

<DIV>Axes would be wonderful.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And besides who ever heard of a knight using a lance...  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </DIV>

[DrAtla]

<blockquote><hr>farbe wrote:<DIV>I wonder if i can buy my SBH back from the vendor /sigh</DIV><hr></blockquote>I wouldn't worry to much about not having an SBH, you can outlevel it so it is not an endgame weapon. If you are levelling at any kind of decent pace you won't have wanted it anyway in a few levels.

[Joxer]

<DIV>Thank you for the heads-up Moorgard :smileyhappy:</DIV> <DIV>Especially like the fact i might be able to use my SBH after the next update!</DIV> <DIV>*Happy SK*</DIV>

[Pirotase]

<DIV>Thank You~</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It is good to know that ..</DIV> <DIV>atleast our SK is not be ignored hehe ~ </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>also think it is time for me to compelet the SBH quest hehe</DIV>

[The_Witchfind]

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Moorgard wrote:<BR> <DIV>The manual is incorrect; crusaders have the weapon skills they were meant to have. Their weapon selection is intended to be more limited than warriors.<BR> <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>Moorgard, thank you for the response, it is very much appreciated.  I'll probably have outleveled the SBH by Live Update #6, but at least there'll be a bit more variety to look forward to.<BR>

[Arlon]

<blockquote><hr>Moorgard wrote:<DIV></div> <DIV>The manual is incorrect; crusaders have the weapon skills they were meant to have. Their weapon selection is intended to be more limited than warriors.</div> <DIV> </div> <DIV>That said, I talked about this issue with the designers today. There doesn't seem to be any resistance to giving crusaders the ability to use axes and great axes, which would let you wield items like the SBH. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div> <DIV> </div> <DIV>However, polearms would require the piercing technique, which is not something we plan to add to crusaders at this time.</div> <DIV> </div> <DIV>This change probably won't make it into Live Update #5, but it can probably be worked into #6.</div><hr></blockquote>Thank you! <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Kharadr]

AWESOME. I'm a dorf paladin, I have always wanted to use axes. Nice <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Pheeb]

Many thanks for inquiring and letting us know Moorguard...much appreciatedSK

[Baelzharon]

<blockquote><hr>Moorgard wrote: <DIV>The manual is incorrect; crusaders have the weapon skills they were meant to have. Their weapon selection is intended to be more limited than warriors.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>That said, I talked about this issue with the designers today. There doesn't seem to be any resistance to giving crusaders the ability to use axes and great axes, which would let you wield items like the SBH. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>However, polearms would require the piercing technique, which is not something we plan to add to crusaders at this time.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This change probably won't make it into Live Update #5, but it can probably be worked into #6.</DIV><hr></blockquote>/swoonThat is awesome, truelly something I've been waiting for! Thanks Moorgard you rock!

[Vak Mallek]

/clapThank you Moorgard. This is wonderful news./clap clap

[Valhu]

<P>Thank you very much for the response Moorguard... information is very precious to us... <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P><STRONG><FONT size=5>THANK YOU Moorguard!</FONT></STRONG></P>

[Akaran2]

<DIV> <DIV>Just a note from a historical standpoint (I'm a Guardian here, so this doesn't effect me either way) - this same issue existed in EQLive, starting with Nadari's Lance off of the Ring10 event in the Great Divide, Velious era. I forget exactly how it went (hey, it was a long time ago), but Sony ended up eventually coding a new skill type for Paladins and ShadowKnights to allow them to use 2h piercing weapons such as lances, spears, ect. I don't know if something like this would be possible in EQ2 or not, but it might be worth considering. I remember when the fix was made in Live, it was a great boon to my class (paladin at the time) and allowed us acess to a very decent array of weapons that few warriors actually used. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'd even be willing to say that there's a large number of guardians / zekers that don't use 2h weapons, based on the fact that a) Guardians are better off with a shield in tanking situations and b) zerkers are likely better off with 2 dual wield weapons, although that is simply conjecture since I don't know that many zerkers in person. From what I've noticed, Paladins and SK's are traditionally better off with 2h weapons through most of the game instead of using a 1h with a shield (barring tanking situations, of course). That being said, grats on your classes being scheduled to get to use things like the SBH, I didn't realize you couldn't before. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>~Akaran, Guardian of Mistmoore</DIV></DIV>

[tlatoa]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Akaran2 wrote:<BR> <DIV> <DIV>Just a note from a historical standpoint (I'm a Guardian here, so this doesn't effect me either way) - this same issue existed in EQLive, starting with Nadari's Lance off of the Ring10 event in the Great Divide, Velious era. I forget exactly how it went (hey, it was a long time ago), but Sony ended up eventually coding a new skill type for Paladins and ShadowKnights to allow them to use 2h piercing weapons such as lances, spears, ect. I don't know if something like this would be possible in EQ2 or not, but it might be worth considering. I remember when the fix was made in Live, it was a great boon to my class (paladin at the time) and allowed us acess to a very decent array of weapons that few warriors actually used. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'd even be willing to say that there's a large number of guardians / zekers that don't use 2h weapons, based on the fact that a) Guardians are better off with a shield in tanking situations and b) zerkers are likely better off with 2 dual wield weapons, although that is simply conjecture since I don't know that many zerkers in person. From what I've noticed, Paladins and SK's are traditionally better off with 2h weapons through most of the game instead of using a 1h with a shield (barring tanking situations, of course). That being said, grats on your classes being scheduled to get to use things like the SBH, I didn't realize you couldn't before. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>~Akaran, Guardian of Mistmoore</DIV></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>2h is better when you aren't tanking, but only marginally. I find that most of my damage comes from spells/arts, so I tend to use my 1h/shield most of the time now. I even made a rare 2h weapon and I find a regular 1h to be pretty much as good. I'd rather have a shield up in case the tank drops. </P> <P> </P> <P>Oh, and axes will be sweet! What level is the pgt? <BR></P>

[Nocifer Deathblade]

<DIV>Ha, don't get your hopes high. PGT is an axe sure but its classified as dual wield item so we still can't use it. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV><p>Message Edited by Nocifer Deathblade on <span class=date_text>03-16-2005</span> <span class=time_text>07:56 AM</span>

[vwlsskng]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Nocifer Deathblade wrote:<BR> <DIV>Ha, don't get your hopes high. PGT is an axe sure but its classified as dual wield item so we still can't use it. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <P>Message Edited by Nocifer Deathblade on <SPAN class=date_text>03-16-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>07:56 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I was under the impression we could equip dual wield items, but only in the primary slot (obviously).

[GilfalasElaandrin]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> vwlssknght wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Nocifer Deathblade wrote:<BR> <DIV>Ha, don't get your hopes high. PGT is an axe sure but its classified as dual wield item so we still can't use it. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <P>Message Edited by Nocifer Deathblade on <SPAN class=date_text>03-16-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>07:56 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I was under the impression we could equip dual wield items, but only in the primary slot (obviously). <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Absolutely Right. You can use any duel wield weapon one handed as well. You just cannot use a secoind weapon in the off hand.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Duel wield only means that you can use ANOTHER duel wield weapon in your off hand if your class has the skill. Otherwise it is simply a one hander like any other weapon.</DIV>

[Tsimhno]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> GilfalasElaandrin wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> vwlssknght wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Nocifer Deathblade wrote:<BR> <DIV>Ha, don't get your hopes high. PGT is an axe sure but its classified as dual wield item so we still can't use it. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <P>Message Edited by Nocifer Deathblade on <SPAN class=date_text>03-16-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>07:56 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I was under the impression we could equip dual wield items, but only in the primary slot (obviously). <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Absolutely Right. You can use any duel wield weapon one handed as well. You just cannot use a secoind weapon in the off hand.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Duel wield only means that you can use ANOTHER duel wield weapon in your off hand if your class has the skill. Otherwise it is simply a one hander like any other weapon.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>well... a crappy one hander.<BR>

[Margen]

<DIV>Good news on using axes, increasing our weapons selection is a nice start in adressing SK/Crusader issues.  Nice work <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Blackoath 22nd Level Shadow Knight</DIV>

[NViDiaFReaK]

<DIV> <DIV>OK i love the fact that you guys are toying witht eh fact that we cold use axe and great axe..  I love it im a 41 Sk and that sounds awsome..</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>BIG PROBLEM </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>i have already completed the PGT and SBH and have sold them to the vendor as i can not use them and until now there were no plans to make them usuable by use.  So now im geting screwed out of the chance to use them once again because they are no trade...  Please if you do this make the quest repeatable just once. not consistantly repeatable but just 1 time so that i like everyone else would have the option of using a weapon that they have wanted to use since they got it.  Yes i know it was my choice to sell them but i needed the cash and wecouldnt use them in the first place so there was no reason to hang n to them..  Thats why i said just make the quest repeatable once.. that way there would be no farming and yet still give us the chance to use these awsome weapons that we couldnt before</DIV></DIV>

[WarklaW]

Thank you Moorgard for the quick response.  This is an issue that bothered me for a long time.  Felt so cheated.  I actually saved an axe in the hopes that this would be addressed.  My weapon of choice.  Now I can't wait!:smileyvery-happy:

[redoule]

My problem with this is that some RAID mobs at the high end are immune to crushing and slashing. So other than divine damage, Paladins will be severely limited in RAIDs.

[Uggli]

Make Heritage quests repeatable for the item, but NOT the status would be my suggestion.

[Pheeb]

<blockquote><hr>Moorgard wrote:<DIV>However, polearms would require the piercing technique, which is not something we plan to add to crusaders at this time.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV><hr></blockquote>Well if you look at Flamberge, it is piercing type weapon and we can use it...knights should be allowed to fight with Lances...Thanks again.

[Kikena]

<DIV> <DIV>My take on this statement is that it would be a grave mistake. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>While you state there is no great opposition by the developers to make the change, I wonder what the real impact is for the game and the class by leaving this skill the way it is. Are players, Shadownights, Paladins, really at a disadvantage by not being able to use this type of weapon?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The griefing double-doors are starting to open wide as significant changes like this are made as was experienced with the change to the Berserker sub-class.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Already voice-ing opinions are those whom could not use certain weapons with that skill and forfeited them only now to be at a dis-advantage in several ways should the change be made.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>How do you address classes like the Mystic whom can use a spear but not a great spear? Piercing is piercing. Plus with the strength buff why not a great spear? Will that be re-considered as well.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Why not smooth the lines even more and let monks wear med armor? Would that be too great a change for the artists? I doubt it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You know your job better than I know your job but as far as game-play goes this change should be evaluated as significant.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The reason for sub-classes should be because of their value in their distinct roles and abilities throught casts, combat arts, and equipment available to them.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>When a significant change is made it should provide value to all whom play.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Is the crusader sub-class less valuable for not having this skill? Will the crusader sub-class have greater value to play because of this skill? Will the crusader sub-class be at a game advantage if this skill becomes available? How would those whom forfeited Heritage Items by not having this skill be re-imbursed if it does become available to them?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Would other classes be less valuable or less play desirable if this change becomes available?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Good hunting out there! <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV></DIV>

[shaw]

<P>/cry i sold my SBH cause of lack of ability to use it and lack of bank space <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P> </P>

[JonasBlackmore]

<blockquote><hr>Moorgard wrote: <DIV>The manual is incorrect; crusaders have the weapon skills they were meant to have. Their weapon selection is intended to be more limited than warriors.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>That said, I talked about this issue with the designers today. There doesn't seem to be any resistance to giving crusaders the ability to use axes and great axes, which would let you wield items like the SBH. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>However, polearms would require the piercing technique, which is not something we plan to add to crusaders at this time.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This change probably won't make it into Live Update #5, but it can probably be worked into #6.</DIV><hr></blockquote>Ummm...will those of us who sold our SBH because we were unable to use it have a chance to buy it back or some other alternative once we are made to be able to use it?*edit*Just saw others had posted this concern, so this is a duplicate of another person's post<p>Message Edited by JonasBlackmore on <span class=date_text>03-16-2005</span> <span class=time_text>12:50 PM</span>

[vwlsskng]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kikenata wrote:<BR> <DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>When a significant change is made it should provide value to all whom play.<BR> <HR> </DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>I honestly don't see how this is a significant change. Paladins and Shadowknights will simply have a broader selection of weapons, not increased DPS or damage mitigation bonuses. I don't see how the sarcastic suggestion of allowing Monks to wear medium armour compares.</DIV>

[tlatoa]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kikenata wrote:<BR> <DIV> <DIV>My take on this statement is that it would be a grave mistake. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>While you state there is no great opposition by the developers to make the change, I wonder what the real impact is for the game and the class by leaving this skill the way it is. Are players, Shadownights, Paladins, really at a disadvantage by not being able to use this type of weapon?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The griefing double-doors are starting to open wide as significant changes like this are made as was experienced with the change to the Berserker sub-class.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Already voice-ing opinions are those whom could not use certain weapons with that skill and forfeited them only now to be at a dis-advantage in several ways should the change be made.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>How do you address classes like the Mystic whom can use a spear but not a great spear? Piercing is piercing. Plus with the strength buff why not a great spear? Will that be re-considered as well.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Why not smooth the lines even more and let monks wear med armor? Would that be too great a change for the artists? I doubt it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You know your job better than I know your job but as far as game-play goes this change should be evaluated as significant.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The reason for sub-classes should be because of their value in their distinct roles and abilities throught casts, combat arts, and equipment available to them.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>When a significant change is made it should provide value to all whom play.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Is the crusader sub-class less valuable for not having this skill? Will the crusader sub-class have greater value to play because of this skill? Will the crusader sub-class be at a game advantage if this skill becomes available? How would those whom forfeited Heritage Items by not having this skill be re-imbursed if it does become available to them?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Would other classes be less valuable or less play desirable if this change becomes available?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Good hunting out there! <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I think it is safe to assume from your post that </P> <P>a) you aren't a crusader and </P> <P>b) you didnt read the original post<BR></P>

[Deadjest]

<P>I have a concern here about the Axes.</P> <P>Are there Axes out there that are made to be used one handed?   And if not, if we are stuck to using 1 handed Axes that are duel wielded, will our DPS weapon wise compared to what we do now be crippled?</P> <P>Harchai</P> <P>Shadow Knight</P>

[Dracoviol]

<DIV>Their are one handed axes. I really like this change because is widens our weapon selection alot, especially with the lack of quality 1hs out there.</DIV>

[Ixnay]

<P>What great news for Shadow Knights!</P> <P>Just so y'all can plan ahead, this is an Ogre friend of mine wielding the EQ first Pristine Forged Ebon Halberd:</P> <P><IMG src="http://www.solisearch.net/ims/pic.php?u=44598f2SY&i=24742"></P> <P>Yes, it is the Gnoll Lore & Legend Mastery trophy come to life <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>I was so envious when I first saw this - if it looks this menacing on an Ogre, just imagine how fearsome I'll look with one as a Gnome <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>I gotta get an Ebon cluster to make one for myself asap lol.</P> <p>Message Edited by Smileonadog on <span class=date_text>03-16-2005</span> <span class=time_text>04:09 PM</span>

[Bootstwadd]

<P>THANK YOU!!!!!</P> <P>I am one super-happy Dorf SK...First our Tainted Essences and now Axes???</P> <P>I take back almost everything bad I ever said or thought about you dev/community/SOE guys...</P> <P>Almost...</P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[Tatali]

<blockquote><hr>redoulent wrote:My problem with this is that some RAID mobs at the high end are immune to crushing and slashing. So other than divine damage, Paladins will be severely limited in RAIDs.<hr></blockquote>Scouts have the same problem. The vast majority of raid mobs are immune to either pierce or slash, sometimes both, but there are very few that are immune to crushing and a large number where crushing is the best option. Scouts can't use any crushing weapons so often times what's supposed to be a DPS class is at best doing 50% damage to these raid mobs and half their combat arts don't work. I've not heard any sorcs complain that a mob is 100% immune to their spells, although some enchanters have. Maybe Ice Comet doesn't work on some, but they can go with their next best fire spell and do damage.Being a fighter class, crusaders aren't meant to be in a DPS roll in the same way scouts are. Yes, its bad if you come across a pierce only mob, but you still have some spells you can use. A scout who comes across a crush only mob can only sit there afk. (blunt ranged attacks dont seem to work) I think its poor game design that makes encounter immune to certain classes.

[Margen]

<P>I think the point  on the piercing issue ( I admit I havent raided yet so just going by whats posted), is one, if a Shadow Knight/Paladin is acting as MT maintaing aggro with out weapons damage would be extremley tough, and if they are not MT about all we would add is dps, least for he Shadow Knights, considering our buffs and nukes/dots are not going to be powerful  enough to make us wanted.  Now there is no argument that the scouts are screwed by this also, specially piercing I would assume.  I think its more an issue of both groups having limitations at the high end.</P> <P>Thanks</P> <P>Blackoath 22nd Level Troll Shadow Knight</P>