Shadowknights inflicting fear, hate and despair?

[Shadame]

"Shadowknights are insidious dark crusaders who use the power of evil to advance their cause. They live to inflict fear, hate, and despair upon all who cross their path." - From the EQ 2 class descriptionsI understand that guardians are the masters of taking damage. Sure, that's fine with me. But how about some abilities that actually reflect what our mission statement is. Yes, we have a taunt, but so does EVERY OTHER FIGHTER ARCHETYPE CLASS. How are we the masters of fear, hate, and despair? We, as shadowknights, as be the masters of hate, should get extra taunt abilities to reflect this. We should also recieve better str/atk speed debuffs, fear procs, and other abilties reflecting despair and fear. IMHO, we should be the utility tank opposite the paladin. We do extra taunting, damage, and debuffs. Paladins do more healing, buffing, and damage intervention.Right now, we have a bunch of DD's a dot or two and a lame harm touch.In EQ1, the SK was a fighter / necromancer. Perhaps in EQ2 the SK should be more modelled around the Defiler.

[Urg]

That description is a hollow freaking sham. We don't inflict fear, hate, or despair upon anyone. We're just a boring tank class with a bunch of DDs.

[SonnyA]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Urgha wrote:<BR>That description is a hollow freaking sham. We don't inflict fear, hate, or despair upon anyone. We're just a boring tank class with a bunch of DDs.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <P>If we're the boring tank class, which tank class is the opposite then? <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>As things are now, it would be cool if we were better at holding aggro than the guardian. At least that would increase a groups dps if a wizard or warlock is present.</P>

[-AtPlay-]

<blockquote><hr>Urgha wrote:That description is a hollow freaking sham. We don't inflict fear, hate, or despair upon anyone. <hr></blockquote>I disagree, I think that the EQ2 dev team couldnt have done a better job with the whole fear/hate/despair thing. I inflict fear...on the group when they find out that a SK is the main tank. Then I inflict hate (in me) as the overzealous cleric/wizzy in the group die. Then the despair sets in as Im booted for a bruiser...

[WarklaW]

<DIV>So true.  Where are the REAL Shadowknight abilities.  The closest was Graven Embrace, and that's been shot to h*ll.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>We should be foreboding.  Instead, we're just another fighter on a horse.  Nothing about us is evil or demonic.  The look isn't there.  The power isn't there.  It's sad.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I think it would have been so cool if we had some sort of influence over the dead.  Whether that be fear, or even possibly getting one undead mob to fight on our side for the duration of a battle (if it's more than one - of course).  At least we would be desired in a group that was going after undead.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>How about something with the word "shadow" in it.  Like being invisible at night?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Maybe "Shadowform".  Gives you increased chance to avoid being hit.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If our life taps meant anything, maybe we would get the proper "mob hate".</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Is it me, or is there a lack of imagination here?</DIV>

[Vak Mallek]

Agree Warklaw. Something original, like what you posed would be cool. Shadowing would be cool, another sort of ability to evade better in the dark. I'd be happy to get a demonic laugh. How about demonic clothing ie we can wear the heads of our killed. If you are a goblin slayer you now have the ability to wear goblin skulls like a belt.

[-AtPlay-]

I think that the SKs should be more offensive than defensive. An aura that helps us evade is nice, but we should be dealing damage instead of avoiding it. I see the whole Paly/SK thing as being similar to the Guardian/Zerker...one is more defensive, the other is more offensive.

[Vak Mallek]

Good point. The idea of undead minions is seems pretty cool. Since we can't use a lance/polearm as a slot item, how about an evil one that we can weild on horseback with charge type spells for extra damage. HT is one thing but a charge to pull aggro and deal out heavy damage with a lance on horseback would be awesome.

[megatra]

<DIV>i swear all you people do is complain. if you don't like SK then why are you playing it?</DIV>

[Vak Mallek]

I love SK and wouldn't play anything else. I took this thread as a 'Make a Wish Foundation'.

[comfortablynu]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> megatraum wrote:<BR> <DIV>i swear all you people do is complain. if you don't like SK then why are you playing it?</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Why do we complain about SKs, yet complain about the class at the same time? Easy, because people have invested a lot of time into the class that can never be recooperated. Personally, I've invested 50 levels, a full suit of ebon, once my last 2 pieces are done being crafted that is, they are in the making, tons of heritage quests, including the EBBC which sucks up an ebon and is no trade, attuned master drop the Taskmasters Battle Hammer, guild patron status work, etc. etc. Plus, who the [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] wants to level up 1 to 50 again, especially when all your friends are 50 and happy with their class. If we could just magically change our class and recooperate all our time invested into xping and equipment, then we would have less of a right to complain, but that is not possible, so we have every right to not reroll and still complain. Plus, a lot of us play SKs purely for the concept. I didnt pick the class because I really wanted to be a tank, I picked it because of the flavor, that being a badass evil knight. Right now, we are wimpy knights, we aren't even really evil. Sure, we tank all right for xp groups, but xp groups aren't whats important in this game, raiding is the important stuff. I'm 50, i'm not xping anymore, i'm raiding, and in a raid SKs are useless, they offer nothing. They fill up a spot, thats all, and I'm sure any fellow raiding player would agree with me, at least the majority would. I know this is true, how many raiding SKs have you seen on this forum who think they're useful? None, because all the raidin SKs know we are [Removed for Content].</DIV>

[Pheeb]

I spoke to a SK lvl 50 on my server - he was the first one to reach 50 and he is part of the best guild, having done many high-end raids.He told me that SK play a straight out DPS roll in high end raids, they wont tank. That's for the guardians. SKs can do pretty high dps (after parsing out the data) - in fact doing the highest dps in most raids outside of Assassins, berserkers, and wizards. It all depends of course. We arent a key class really, just more fluff.There you have another SK 50 feedback...<p>Message Edited by Pheebau on <span class=date_text>03-02-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:44 PM</span>

[Shadame]

Haste and a good 2h sword are very nice.However, I just think that shadowknights (and paladins) need to be retuned, as one of the posters abouve said, in the way that guardians / berzerkers are.Shadowknights need to be about damage & hatePaladins need to be about healing / protection of othersI think Shadowknights should be the masters of agro... sure guardians can take the damage, but I can [Removed for Content] mobs off!

[Sardunos]

But if the Guardian is the meat sheild then they should really control the aggro. How about a spell that allowes us to throw hate onto a party member? Make it like ward...target though mob...and will cast on main tank. So if the guardian loses aggro its still our job to get it back...but to get it back on him.

[CountDrunkula]

Here's an idea where they wouldn't have to fix our miserable lifetaps, and i think it would balance us out with regards to guardians a bit for tanking.Scrap the lifetaps alltogether, and just let like 20% of our total damage siphon back to us naturally...that would cause some fear, hate and despair.(I havent crunched any numbers... 20% might be a bit high...or low...have to try to match it up against paly heals and cast times vs. average SK DPS I guess...)just an idea

[Skua]

hmmmmmmmmmmm i have the best idea hehehwhat about a new spell at 20 called shadows or something like that and new 1 at 40 and :allow the sk to evade attacks for 15 seconds or evade 10 melee atacks , whit a good retimer maybe we can be untouchables and a nices tank the spell allow a black aura to the sk and make him untouchable for time or for hits doesnt at 40 make the shadows for long time or for more hits , the retimer 1 min will be good , if they dont wanna change mitigation or life taps how we keep alive? or how keep alive the poor healer that heal and heal ? now ask u......if u are playing an alt and see guardian , pally and sk, zerker in LFG wich u will choose? by order? or some ability like make some cuthead on the enemy with a good animation (blood YES PLEASE) or something more SK we need more SK abilitys change some animations lol i see the same spell always >.> and what about our armor? i want some black armor at 20 u go with the same armor thatthe pally guardian and all tanks at your lvl >.> ah plz ghoulbane are nice , sword of thunder also but soul harvester OMG 75p in the broker >.< yeah is a ultimate weapon but ...................

[Ravaan]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Sardunos wrote:<BR>But if the Guardian is the meat sheild then they should really control the aggro. How about a spell that allowes us to throw hate onto a party member? Make it like ward...target though mob...and will cast on main tank. So if the guardian loses aggro its still our job to get it back...but to get it back on him.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>ALL fighters are supposed to be Meat shields, this has been stated many many MANY times that all were supposed to be equal in tanking. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So basically if you saw a Bruiser, Monk, SK, Paladin, Guardian, Zerker all looking for group you could just randomly pick one of thier names out of a hat and not worry that he can't do his job no matter what the occasion is.</DIV>

[Dazzler-]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> -AtPlay- wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Urgha wrote:<BR>That description is a hollow freaking sham. We don't inflict fear, hate, or despair upon anyone. <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>I disagree, I think that the EQ2 dev team couldnt have done a better job with the whole fear/hate/despair thing. I inflict fear...on the group when they find out that a SK is the main tank. Then I inflict hate (in me) as the overzealous cleric/wizzy in the group die. Then the despair sets in as Im booted for a bruiser...<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>[Removed for Content]...quite witty I must say! <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[-AtPlay-]

<blockquote><hr>Dazzler-01 wrote:<BR><BLOCKQUOTE><HR>-AtPlay- wrote:<BR><BR><BLOCKQUOTE><HR>Urgha wrote:<BR>That description is a hollow freaking sham. We don't inflict fear, hate, or despair upon anyone. <BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>I disagree, I think that the EQ2 dev team couldnt have done a better job with the whole fear/hate/despair thing. I inflict fear...on the group when they find out that a SK is the main tank. Then I inflict hate (in me) as the overzealous cleric/wizzy in the group die. Then the despair sets in as Im booted for a bruiser...<BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><DIV>[Removed for Content]...quite witty I must say! <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV><hr></blockquote>My main job is to entertain.

[DrAtla]

Uhhh, we do disease damage. Does that count as fear and despair? Oh and some of our spells have scary names like "Unholy Aura" and "Grim Harbinger". See, we do inflict fear, hate, and despair!

[vwlsskng]

<DIV>There really isn't anything that sets this class apart from the others.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Graven Embrace could have been something if it worked like Feign Death/Death Peace in EQL, but not only does its effectiveness cap at a ridiculously low level, it's castable on others and its re-use timer has been bugged for months. Harm Touch, when compared to Lay on Hands, is, at best, laughable.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Other than those two gimped abilities, what defines us as a class, subpar lifetaps that don't even heal one high-end attack?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Bobbing Corpse</DIV> <DIV>Feign Death (Death Peace)</DIV> <DIV>Gather Shadows</DIV> <DIV>Invisibility versus Undead</DIV> <DIV>Improved Invisibility versus Undead</DIV> <DIV>Summon Corpse</DIV> <DIV>Conjure Corpse</DIV> <DIV>Sense the Dead</DIV> <DIV>Darkness (snare) spells</DIV> <DIV>Fear spells</DIV> <DIV>Shadow Step</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>HARMSHIELD</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Where are any of these?</DIV><p>Message Edited by vwlssknght on <span class=date_text>03-03-2005</span> <span class=time_text>08:35 AM</span>

[-AtPlay-]

<blockquote><hr>vwlssknght wrote:<DIV>There really isn't anything that sets this class apart from the others.</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>Graven Embrace could have been something if it worked like Feign Death/Death Peace in EQL, but not only does its effectiveness cap at a ridiculously low level, it's castable on others and its re-use timer has been bugged for months. Harm Touch, when compared to Lay on Hands, is, at best, laughable.</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>Other than those two gimped abilities, what defines us as a class, subpar lifetaps that don't even heal one high-end attack?</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>Bobbing Corpse</DIV><DIV>Feign Death (Death Peace)</DIV><DIV>Gather Shadows</DIV><DIV>Invisibility versus Undead</DIV><DIV>Improved Invisibility versus Undead</DIV><DIV>Summon Corpse</DIV><DIV>Conjure Corpse</DIV><DIV>Sense the Dead</DIV><DIV>Darkness (snare) spells</DIV><DIV>Fear spells</DIV><DIV>Shadow Step</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>HARMSHIELD</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>Where are any of these?</DIV><p>Message Edited by vwlssknght on <span class=date_text>03-03-2005</span> <span class=time_text>08:35 AM</span><hr></blockquote>And the *REAL* pets that I got to know and love. Hell, Id have some of the most interesting conversations with my skele pets in EQL.

[vwlsskng]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P> <HR> -AtPlay- wrote:<BR><BR>And the *REAL* pets that I got to know and love. Hell, Id have some of the most interesting conversations with my skele pets in EQL. <HR> </P></BLOCKQUOTE>Haha! Yes, Sentient Axe with Voice Graft was fun. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR>

[-AtPlay-]

<blockquote><hr>vwlssknght wrote:<BR><BLOCKQUOTE><P><HR>-AtPlay- wrote:<BR><BR>And the *REAL* pets that I got to know and love. Hell, Id have some of the most interesting conversations with my skele pets in EQL.<HR></P></BLOCKQUOTE>Haha! Yes, Sentient Axe with Voice Graft was fun. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR><hr></blockquote>I loved my axe. Id park my pet at some newbie area, then mess with noobies. Oh, dont think that Im just mean, I would always give the noobie at least some coin/item. In boring groups, Id have my pet complaining about the working conditions and such.

[DarkPuppete]

<DIV align=left>Same with my Necro alt in EQ, get my buddy to hit him with growth, voice graft and park him in nektulos, what fun</DIV>

[far]

<DIV>Ive said before and Ill say it again, the SKS as the bringers of hate and fear are dead and buried, Cazic Thul would cringe to hear someone call the SKs of eq2 his children, and inny would laugh his [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] off at our ability to control and inflict.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>No It seems to me that hate and fear were dumped and SKs became the lone children of Bertox the Plague bringer, only we dont get any (good) dots, or wards against poison and disease, or debuffs which you think disease and poison should bring to your opponent, or even a tap of a mobs resistances... </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So agree above we are mis represented in the documentation and poorly represented as whomever decided that the harbingers of disease would really not have alot to do with disease at all.</DIV>