Is it possible to get your Shadowknight and do the Betrayal?

[Frostborne]

Has anyone tried or done this yet? Just wondering if this is possible.

[vontr]

<DIV>i doubt it, bc you can betray till lvl 18 i heared, and SK starts at 20 ? Then again, i dunno if you can set your subclass allready at 18 ?? So, good question actually....</DIV>

[Kunathar]

You can complete and finish your subclass quest at 18. But I thought betrayal was limited to level 17 and no higher?If it is 18, then I would say yeah, you can finish your SK subclass quest and then betray, and when you ding 20 you'd become an SK.But something tells me the max on betrayal is level 17 and not 18, as SoE would have purposely capped it at 17 to prevent an SK from betraying as it would defeat the purpose of betrayal, I believe. Why would an SK want to goto Qeynos? If a crusader wanted to defect from Freeport to Qeynos, then their intention is to become a Paladin.<p>Message Edited by Kunathar on <span class=date_text>12-08-2004</span> <span class=time_text>10:38 AM</span>

[vontr]

<DIV>here is another thread: </DIV> <DIV><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=9&message.id=124&highlight=betrayal+quest#M124" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=9&message.id=124&highlight=betrayal+quest#M124</A></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So you have to do the betrayal quest BEFORE you hit 18....and since you can only start your sub class AT 18, the answer is: NO, you can not be a SK and betray.....</DIV><p>Message Edited by vontrox on <span class=date_text>12-08-2004</span> <span class=time_text>07:44 AM</span>

[vontr]

<DIV>dumb forum.........1st double post...</DIV><p>Message Edited by vontrox on <span class=date_text>12-08-2004</span> <span class=time_text>07:42 AM</span>

[vontr]

<DIV>and second double post.......</DIV><p>Message Edited by vontrox on <span class=date_text>12-08-2004</span> <span class=time_text>07:43 AM</span>

[vontr]

<DIV>and of course for the love of gods......3th time.......*sigh*....</DIV><p>Message Edited by vontrox on <span class=date_text>12-08-2004</span> <span class=time_text>07:43 AM</span>

[Frostborne]

<blockquote><hr>Kunathar wrote:You can complete and finish your subclass quest at 18. But I thought betrayal was limited to level 17 and no higher?If it is 18, then I would say yeah, you can finish your SK subclass quest and then betray, and when you ding 20 you'd become an SK.But something tells me the max on betrayal is level 17 and not 18, as SoE would have purposely capped it at 17 to prevent an SK from betraying as it would defeat the purpose of betrayal, I believe. Why would an SK want to goto Qeynos? If a crusader wanted to defect from Freeport to Qeynos, then their intention is to become a Paladin.<p>Message Edited by Kunathar on <span class=date_text>12-08-2004</span> <span class=time_text>10:38 AM</span><hr></blockquote>I agree to their purpose, but if that was their intent, then why would they allow evil creature classes to defect? I would agree if that was their standard....but it isn't. You can defect if you're an evil dark elf, ogre or troll, which shouldn't be allowed in the RP sense, but they won't allow you to chose an evil class? That makes no sense. Why not allow me to RP how I play my class and why? If I want to be an SK seeking redemption for my past crimes (sort of like Angelis in Angel), then why not?

[xrippe]

<DIV>Ive done the betrayal quest, it has to be done before you chose your final class.  The reason you cant have an SK running around in Qeynos is because Qeynos is a good city and only allows good classes.  If you are an evil/good race and defect it means you have now turned alliances and will live in that city with their rules wich means you have to play a class that is excepted there.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Yenyang Angrydragon</DIV> <DIV>Level 20 Ogre monk</DIV> <DIV>Kitchicore</DIV>

[Frostborne]

<blockquote><hr>xripperx wrote:<DIV>Ive done the betrayal quest, it has to be done before you chose your final class. The reason you cant have an SK running around in Qeynos is because Qeynos is a good city and only allows good classes. If you are an evil/good race and defect it means you have now turned alliances and will live in that city with their rules wich means you have to play a class that is excepted there.</div><DIV> </div><DIV>Yenyang Angrydragon</div><DIV>Level 20 Ogre monk</div><DIV>Kitchicore</div><hr></blockquote>But doesn't that open up an RP opportunity? If I'm a stranger in a strange land....or in this case, an evil in a good land, or visa versa, wouldn't that make it more interesting? It seems rather limiting to keep people from playing the class they want based on in game restrictions on classes. I don't have a limit on choosing races, so why should it be any different with classes? I thought it would be cool if it was possible, but since it's not I'm not going to bother leveling up a fighter now. That's all it means. For me the most interesting class was SK, the others seem...boring. Anyways, should give me more time to spend working on my Warden <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.

[xrippe]

<DIV>Big difference between eq1 and 2 is there are no longer neutral races.  You can still play a SK in the area of Qeynos and even buy sell to the merchants in the area, just dont expect to get in the city =)  Seems there has been a clear line drawn and your either on one side or the other.  No such thing as being on the fence anymore.  I think EQ2 would be a perfect senerio for good/evil PVP.  If/when that server comes out Ill be on it first day.</DIV>

[Kunathar]

Frost, I agree that it would be cool to, as an SK, "become good"...but then, even in a RP sense you could not remain an SK. You would have to re-train in the arts of a Paladin. Since you are betraying the essence of pure evil, why would you want to remain as an SK and wield the power of evil, death, pain, suffering and darkness?Just my thoughts.

[Frostborne]

Well think of it as...you're an evil shell but your heart is good. Doesn't mean that you don't still have reactions to things and have the visage of evil...but you make an attempt to be good. Being a Paladin is quite a different thing. Paladins live and breathe good, if you are attempting to play one in the pure sense, and their thoughts and actions reinforce this.Just as you could play as SK in Qeynos, you should be able to play a "falling" Paladin in Freeport. You're not quite sure and doubt your ways of good, you've done things which you feel to be possibly evil, but you're still haven't given yourself up to the way of evil based upon your character. You are in Paladin purgatory in a sense.Like for instance to make a comparision, Angelis in the T.V. show Angel. He's a vampire with a soul. He's an evil being, but has a "good" heart which is trying to win out over his evil body which occasionally makes him do evil things when he is mad. He wants to bite people, drink them dry, kill people who irritate him...but he fights to keep himself from giving into it.Guess that is where I was going with the whole SK betrayal thing, but doesn't matter now, since it's impossible to do. Was a neat idea though! Who knows, maybe things will change in the future.<p>Message Edited by Frostborne on <span class=date_text>12-08-2004</span> <span class=time_text>01:21 PM</span>

[xrippe]

<DIV>I know how you can fix that and show how you feel inside.</DIV> <DIV>Next time your fighting something with your SK you send out an emote </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>/emote I wish I could just hug this %t instead of kill it</DIV> <DIV>/emote why must I ruin everything??</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Or if you were a pally you could</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>/Emote Sure I healed you... but I wish I had really kicked you in the nuts...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Something like that</DIV>

[Frostborne]

Yah, lol. But hey...you don't get the cool title <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Drax]

<DIV>From an RP standpoint, I disagree with you about allowing races to betray but not classes. My reasoning behind this is simply that because you're a Dark Elf doesn't mean you can't see another path to take than the standard Tier'Dal culture. Take for example a born american living in China, contributing and living by their culture. It's not the standard by any means, but I garuntee you it's happened. Even in the actual Lore, there has been stories of certain characters breaking from their culture and traditions and effectively changing sides (a perfect example is the EQ2 lore where the Dark Elf falls in love with the Human). So, I think we can all understand a High-Elf falling from grace and letting greed and hate get the better of her - as well as a Tier'Dal wanting to flee from the oppresion and evil of Freeport for a better way of life.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now why would a Shadowknight class be any differention? A Shadowknight is a profession and a way of life. A Shadowknight uses hate, fear, and power to get what they want and accomplish their goals. That profession and mindset would have no interest in Qeynos nor would that mindset be welcome among that city. No more would a Paladin be welcome to Freeport by the Overlord that rid Freeport of the Paladins to begin with. Being born a Tier`Dal does not mean you have to accept their culture, but becoming a Shadowknight and taking it as a profession is in fact accepting that way of life and embracing it - where it simply would not be welcome in Qeynos no more than that profession would want to be there.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This is simply based on my opinion of the lore of EverQuest. I personally like the way its setup and the only way I could see an SK betraying to Qeynos is a higher level betrayal quest. To flip the example in a Paladins case, a quest that allowed a Paladin to "fall from grace" and become a Shadowknight or vice versa, as that would allow you to change cities as well and maintain a sense of RP - as again, if a Shadowknight were to betray he would certainly have to cast down his dark ways in order to do so (note: I would never betray, I love every ounce of my evil <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />). In any case - This would unfortunately do more harm to the gameplay than it would do good for the RP - Since the ability to actually "change" your major profession would be quite frankly rediculous and harmful to gameplay =P.</DIV>

[Drax]

<DIV>Although, after thinking about it, a "Fallen Paladin" and "Redeemed Shadowknight" type of profession sure would make a cool expansion.</DIV>

[Frostborne]

<blockquote><hr>Draxis wrote:<DIV>From an RP standpoint, I disagree with you about allowing races to betray but not classes. My reasoning behind this is simply that because you're a Dark Elf doesn't mean you can't see another path to take than the standard Tier'Dal culture. Take for example a born american living in China, contributing and living by their culture. It's not the standard by any means, but I garuntee you it's happened. Even in the actual Lore, there has been stories of certain characters breaking from their culture and traditions and effectively changing sides (a perfect example is the EQ2 lore where the Dark Elf falls in love with the Human). So, I think we can all understand a High-Elf falling from grace and letting greed and hate get the better of her - as well as a Tier'Dal wanting to flee from the oppresion and evil of Freeport for a better way of life.</div><DIV> </div><DIV>Now why would a Shadowknight class be any differention? A Shadowknight is a profession and a way of life. A Shadowknight uses hate, fear, and power to get what they want and accomplish their goals. That profession and mindset would have no interest in Qeynos nor would that mindset be welcome among that city. No more would a Paladin be welcome to Freeport by the Overlord that rid Freeport of the Paladins to begin with. Being born a Tier`Dal does not mean you have to accept their culture, but becoming a Shadowknight and taking it as a profession is in fact accepting that way of life and embracing it - where it simply would not be welcome in Qeynos no more than that profession would want to be there.</div><DIV> </div><DIV>This is simply based on my opinion of the lore of EverQuest. I personally like the way its setup and the only way I could see an SK betraying to Qeynos is a higher level betrayal quest. To flip the example in a Paladins case, a quest that allowed a Paladin to "fall from grace" and become a Shadowknight or vice versa, as that would allow you to change cities as well and maintain a sense of RP - as again, if a Shadowknight were to betray he would certainly have to cast down his dark ways in order to do so (note: I would never betray, I love every ounce of my evil <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />). In any case - This would unfortunately do more harm to the gameplay than it would do good for the RP - Since the ability to actually "change" your major profession would be quite frankly rediculous and harmful to gameplay =P.</div><hr></blockquote>See this is where I disagree with you Draxis. You see it as something you choose to be, as a profession, and then ever after you are stuck with that choice. Which makes sense and they are. However, what if at some point you decide...hey maybe, just maybe, I'm something I don't like, I don't like killing innocent villagers. Or wait...as a Paladin..maybe you do like the killing, all too much, and that half elf or gnome next to you invokes thoughts of cutting their little feet off after listening to their constant gleefull chuckling all the time.At what point can you turn? You can't. Evil is never cut and dry, neither is good. There is alot of overlap. Destroying another race isn't evil to me, that's just something that happens all the time, though the losers are "evil" and the winners are "good". Doesn't mean the "really" are.I guess the question is...what makes a Dark Elf evil? From lore I would gather they were just "made" evil. Can a being crafted from evil essence become good? Wouldn't that mean that evil and good are just the same thing, just different, at different times, each having different decisions to make and making them? What makes those decisions wrong or right? Whose the authority of what good and evil is and gives them the authority to do it?I do agree from a RP standpoint, it's convienient to have one side good, one side evil, and leave it at that. But often, good does evil, and evil does good, and it's not the label of one side or the other that makes it so, but the observations of those that it effects.One in game example I have of what I don't consider necessarily evil is "only the strong shall survive". Is that evil or is that Darwinian? Was Darwin evil? Spartans lived like this, so much so they killed sickly babies and made their children survive days alone in the mountains. Is that evil? To some cultures it might.Another example of good gone bad is the Inquisition. Was purging the rank and file of the church for "non-believers and heritics" good or was it just another form of evil manifesting itself in the guise of good? Depends on who is the one observing the history and how it is cast. Does the executionaire become evil because he is the one carrying out the will and orders of those that are evil? Maybe, if free will is allowed in that soceity. Much as a shadowknight is supposedly doing his duty by the command of the Overlord, but does that make him evil? Or is it because Christopher Lee did the voiceover? Personally, Heather Graham as Antonica is evil. Why? Because soon as I hear her voice all I can picture is Rollergirl from Boogie Nights.....yum, delicious evil.<p>Message Edited by Frostborne on <span class=date_text>12-08-2004</span> <span class=time_text>03:57 PM</span>